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>PS - Could I beg a favor? I'm probably the the oldest person on this

>list. My eyes are aging. Would people please post in a larger point

>size? I use 14 points, and that's real comfortable. Thanks.

You should be able to set the font size and style in your own computer so

that all the mail you receive is in that font.

Look in options or settings for the screen font.

I have mine set to 10 and that is the size I see, including your mail that

you typed in 14.

Barbara Handley

" Do you understand that to bring a child into the world, as well as to

birth *yourself* as a more compassionate human being in the process of

parenting is not only the hardest thing you'll likely ever do, but just as

importantly, a profound honor? " --- (Chinaberry)

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In a message dated 8/13/99 6:53:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

schiffshak@... writes:

<< She screams, hits, bites, pulls hair and pinches. I think some of it is

her age and some of it is definitely her fustration and some of it is her

STUBBORNESS. When she goes in to one of these fits they can last for hours.

>>

Kathyann,

Try some of these sites. Hope they help:

http://www.conductdisorders.com/

http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb11473

http://members.tripod.com/bin/roadmap?934224930750

<A HREF= " http://www.voicenet.com/~daphni/support/index.html " >Support for

ADHD/ODD</A> Sorry had to give you this one in an AOL link because my

keyboard doesnt have one of the symbols in the site address-hope ou know how

to convert it

Terry

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>> Isn't that awful that I just did not pick up on that she was just probably

pleading with me to help her hear? (My mother said they would have diagnosed a

lot earlier). Sometimes the guilt gets unbearable.<<

Don't buy into that guild trip! Even if you did pick up on it earlier, they may

not have diagnosed a the hearing loss. I'm sure many of the folks here can share

their own diagnosis stories, but we first suspected a problem and asked the Dr's

at 6 months, they would brush aside my concerns. At 12 months I specifically

asked for a hearing test for him. They told me he couldn't be tested till he was

2 1/2 and that I was just being an overly concerned first time mom. At 14 months

told them he didn't respond at all to sound. They told me he may be developing

another ear infection and to keep an eye on him. At 16 months he was

hospitalized for asthma (reactive airway disease) and when he had the TV up way

too loud the nurse came in, turned it off, moved it away from him and lectured

me on never allowing him to do that again because he would make himself deaf,

then stomped out. At 17 months we were fed up and told the Dr's we were tired of

getting jerked around, so they scheduled a language eval. At 18 months we had

him tested (without the blessings of a Dr.) At 19 months his Dr told us there

was nothing wrong with his hearing and ignore the audiologist (guess which Dr we

chose to ignore?). This was not just one or two Dr's either. In all, about 6

Dr's missed it. This was with a severe-profound loss! (And for those that

wonder, this is one of the places a good chunk of my " could have's/should

have's " came from.) Just so you'll know, my son had extremely bright playful

eyes from his first moments.

Guilt is unproductive and won't help your child. As my father used to say, " The

past doesn't go anywhere. " (see my earlier post on the subject - and please,

don't feel guilty for feeling guilty). The important thing is you did what you

could with what you knew. What you're doing now, finding information, is one

heck of a great thing to be doing, and one of those things that go in your

" thank goodness I did " pile.

Kay

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--Original Message Text---

From: Schiffhauer,Steve

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:57:39 -0700

>> average reading age for hearing high school students graduates is 6th grad

Hmm, the studies I have seen cite 4th grade, up from grade 3.5 - where

it was for more than a decade.

Point taken. Thanks -- I really worry about that.

>> what they all say and just prove them wrong.

I did prove them wrong! I was bound and determined that my daughter,

JJ, would be literate, and she is! She was post-high school in reading

and language on the California Achievment Test and the MAT-7, by the

time she was in 7th grade. He writing is outstanding. And for those

who don't know (and aren't tired me saying all of this) she was born

stone-cold deaf-as-a-door-knob. The frightening thing is that for

every JJ there is another deaf kid to balance her out at the opposite

end of the scale, resulting in the 4th grade statistical average.

Now, relative to this average, I wrote something that obliquely

addresses this, and it's on Kay's website. The entire article,

" Educational Evaluation of Deaf Children, " is found at

http://members.tripod.com/listenup/evals.htm

But the part that fits here is:

" Looking at HI norms alone not only conceals the true nature of the

student's achievement, but attempts to

assert that poor achievement for any individual deaf student must be

acceptable, because, in fact, it is the

norm, and is expected. It must not be the fault of any specific program

or service-provider, because it is

the norm. Furthermore, such reasoning clearly implies that illiteracy

is an inherent by-product of deafness.

It is my belief that this is specious reasoning at best, intentional

duplicity at worst. "

Substitute, " Relying on the statistic that the average deaf

school-leaver reads at 4th grade level... " for " Looking at HI norms

alone not only conceals the true nature of the student's achievement,

but . . . " and you have my opinion on this topic.

I also prefer to state things differently: The average HI program

employs teachers who are unable to instruct deaf students to achieve

beyond a 4th grade reading level.

>> One time when was about 1.5, I even called my mother crying and asked

her " How long does it take for them to tell if she was a Down Sydome child? " >>

DS is generally diagnosed at birth. There are several visible

characteristics, and genetic testing can confirm a diagnosis, if need

be. I would bet the rent that does NOT have Downs Sydrome.

<< We did have examined by a team of developmental doctors and

specialist. They did say she was delayed, but it all stemed from her

hearing loss. Does that sound right to you?>>

Yes, it sounds right to me. In fact, I have had clients whose IQ

scores increased significantly after proper remediation. In the olden

days (I don't want to think about how close the " olden " days were) it

was quite common to misdiagnose a deaf child as mentally impaired.

Those were the days before de-institutionalization, and many deaf

people lived their entire lives in institutions for the mentally

impaired. I remember reading, oh it was probably about 8 years ago,

(well before I was on the Web) that a man in his 60's was finally

released from such a state institution (GA or AL, I can't remember

which) and found to be DEAF, having perfectly normal intelligence.

There was a big lawsuit filed on his behalf by his neices and nephews.

The state is supporting him in style for the rest of his life. But no

amount of money could ever compensate for what was done to him. He

didn't have even a semblance of a normal life and he never will.

Just because things are not that egregious any more, doesn't mean that

a " DD " label isn't place on deaf children any more. And to be brutally

frank, I have seen far too many deaf children who are *functionally*

retarded because of a failure to develop appropriate language, literacy

and independent living skills. There but for the grace of God go ours.

It is not just " freedom " whose price is eternal vigilance.

Celeste

PS - Could I beg a favor? I'm probably the the oldest person on this

list. My eyes are aging. Would people please post in a larger point

size? I use 14 points, and that's real comfortable. Thanks.

Now back to the grindstone. (I mean me. You can relax.)

cj

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Just because things are not that egregious any more, doesn't mean that a " DD "

label isn't place on deaf children any more.

I know what you mean. It upsets me everytime I mention JD playing chess and

someone says, " HE can play chess? " to which I sometimes reply, " He's deaf, not

retarded. " (You think I'm always this sweet?) I also enjoy watching JD making

them sweat! (He plays a mean game of Chess.)

PS - Could I beg a favor? I'm probably the the oldest person on this list. My

eyes are aging. Would people please post in a larger point size? I use 14

points, and that's real comfortable. Thanks.

Not a problem. I just set the defaults on my browser for you. Do you prefer

Arial, Bookman, or Times New Roman? (or do you care?)

Now back to the grindstone. (I mean me. You can relax.)

Yeah, like I get the luxury of relaxing. ;-)

Hugs,

Kay

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--Original Message Text---

From: Dave & Kay

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:06:34 -0500

<<I just set the defaults on my browser for you. Do you prefer Arial,

Bookman, or Times New Roman? (or do you care?)>>

Thanks, Kay. I don't care about the font, as long as it's not

something WIERD, making it difficult to read. It's small point sizes

that bothers my aging eyes. (Understand, it's just my eyes that are

aging -- the rest of me is NOT! ;>B)

Someone suggested that I adjust my email reader. Unfortunately, the

email program I use (a little known off-brand called PMMail, that I

just love,) does have a couple of imperfections, one of which is that I

cannot adjust anything about incoming mail, only my outgoing mail. So,

I have to read it the way you send it. Wish it were not the case, but

it is. Thanks.

Celeste

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Thanks, Kay. I don't care about the font, as long as it's not something WIERD,

making it difficult to read. It's small point sizes that bothers my aging eyes.

(Understand, it's just my eyes that are aging -- the rest of me is NOT! ;>B)

Just thought I'd check. Some people don't like certain fonts. And I do

understand about the eyes. Mine are the same way. I guess I could go get my

glasses and put them on, but they're bifocals and there are too many horizontal

lines in this room for me to wear my glasses in here (edges of the desk,

monitor, cupboards, etc). The bifocal part of the glasses makes the horizontal

lines get wavey when I move my head. Once when I wore them to a mall, I thought

I was going to get sick. The floor was all 6 inch white tiles with black grout.

I felt like I was on drugs. I guess I would get used to that if I wore them more

often, but hey, I'm not that old. ;-) Not all my mail will go out that way. I

do have problems on some lists not accepting html format mail, so mine is set to

respond in the same form as what I'm responding to, so mail in text format I

can't change to 14 pt. But for those that can allow it, It'll be done.

Someone suggested that I adjust my email reader. Unfortunately, the email

program I use (a little known off-brand called PMMail, that I just love,) does

have a couple of imperfections, one of which is that I cannot adjust anything

about incoming mail, only my outgoing mail. So, I have to read it the way you

send it. Wish it were not the case, but it is. Thanks.

Not a problem. Maybe sometime in the future they'll come out with an upgrade

that will have that feature in it.

Hugs,

Kay

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In a message dated 8/18/99 5:36:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

dean@... writes:

<< Does anyone have any experience/ideas about the connection of hearing

impairment and low musle tone and how it relates to a child's performance.

Also does anyone have any experiences of a hearing impaired child in a

boarding school situation they could share with us. >>

If its anything like a residential school for the deaf, they are not very

diligent about making sure they have their homework done. they set the time,

the kids all stay in their rooms and they just expect it to happen. If he is

very bright, he may be easily distracted or he may just not see the use in

the tedious task of homework. you may also want to look into him possibly

being ADD.

Terry

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Mark and ,

Your son sounds as if he has ADD (Attention Deficiet Disorder). It can be

with or without hyperactivity. If it is with hyperactivity it is called

ADHD. Have you ever had this checked out?

What did they say what is causing the weak upper body muscle tone? My

daughter has mild C.P. and that was one of her problems.

Eleanor

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It's Marketed Exclusively By:

Starlight International. 80 Garden Court,

Suite 100, Monterey, CA 93940

I heard about it from a friend and was reluctant to try it, but at the time, I

was a my wits end. I thought what could it hurt. My son was constantly hitting

and

punching, along with screaming excessively to get his own way. Would not wear

shorts all Summer only blue and gray sweats even in 100 degree weather. Two

weeks ago he

started wearing shorts. The problem did seem to escalate since le was

born, he would go to any extreme to get what he wanted. I mean any extreme. He

is 5 years

old. No punishment was too severe. After going to the Peds about the problem

and the developmental doctor about the problem, and they could see what I meant

but nothing

could be done until he was in two settings, I figured I had to try something,

before he started kindergarten. He IQ tested at a

6 1/2 year old level. So the doctors know that we spend time with him they

stated, but stated that a special needs child needs a lot of attention and he

was feeling

left out, since le was getting so much of my time and energy. I might

agree with them to a certain point. But not totally.

I can't say for sure this is the answer, but I see a huge difference.

I purchase it from an Starlight Independent Distributor, in my area. My sister

just gave me an article out of the GNC heath store magazine, called the RITILIAN

EPIDEMIC

and it also stated that too many doctors are too quick to put these kids on

RITILIAN for behavioral problems an that alot of kids can be helped through

different dietary

supplement's. I will look for the article today and forward it, once I find it.

So you may be able to get something locally at a Health Food, Vitamin Store. The

article states what they suggest, and it could be purchased at a Health Food

store. I believe it was grapefruit seed extract, but I'm not positive.

The ingredients in Lifeguard Jr. are Beta Carotene, Vitamin C, Vitamin E.

Bilberry Extract, Vegetable Complex, Acerola Powder, Rosehips Powder, Grape Seed

Extract.

Hope this helps.

Colleen

mom to 5 years (hearing)

le 11 months (HOH)

The Exners wrote:

>

>

> Colleen,

>

> >I also

> > put him on a vitamin that is supposed to work with behavioral problems

> > it's called Lifeguard JR. it's some kind of dietary supplement,

>

> You get it from ... ? What company makes it?

>

> Thanks

>

> Cheryl

>

> ---------------------------

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In a message dated 8/21/99 12:37:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, duplanr@...

writes:

<< his is the second company that I have heard of promoting products with

Grape Seed Extract as helping kids with ADD >>

RoseAnn,

I do not know anything about it helping kids with ADD but a doctor on PBS

said that it boosts the immune system and helps prevent cancer.

I am glad to hear it comes as an extract because finding grapes with grapes

seeds is impossible.

Eleanor

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>

> The ingredients in Lifeguard Jr. are Beta Carotene, Vitamin C,

> Vitamin E. Bilberry Extract, Vegetable Complex, Acerola Powder,

> Rosehips Powder, Grape Seed Extract.

This is the second company that I have heard of promoting products with

Grape Seed Extract as helping kids with ADD. The first time it came to my

attention I tried to research grape seed extract and couldn't find anything

about it's use in ADD. It has been shown to be of great benefit to the

vascular system.

Since that time I still have not been able to find anything on the ADD issue

research wise, but boy I tell you I have heard more and more from parents

who have tired these products that they have worked wonders in their kids.

Sure sounds like it maybe worth a try.

RoseAnn

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> The ingredients in Lifeguard Jr. are Beta Carotene, Vitamin C, Vitamin E.

Bilberry Extract, Vegetable Complex, Acerola Powder, Rosehips Powder, Grape

Seed Extract.<

One of the things we have done with our son is put him on the Feingold Diet.

You can read about it here:

http://www.feingold.org/home.html

This is something we've had problems with in the past. The diet didn't

completely take care of the symptoms, but it did lesson them.

Kay

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Phyllis,

I can't seem to read many posts you send.

there is nothing in the body of the message.

The only time you can see it, is if you hit reply.

Anyone else experiencing this????

I think I have missed many posts, thinking there was no message!!!

Debbie

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Hi Phyllis,

has the Phonak Audio Zoom- Sono Forte 332X AZ along with the Microvox

(Mircolink) FM system. All are used thru the DHC-1 remote control.

Let me suggest one thing that has been a LIFE SAVER to me, is the CRITTER

CLIPS!!!!! I did not use the critter clip once when we went to the Mall, and

I was a nervous wreck all day that was going to loss his aids!!! He

does take them out at times, and it would only take a second to loose track

of them. Especially when he takes his right aid out, it is not very loud so

it does not whistle!!!!!

You can get more information on the Critter Clips on Kay's website!!

Take care,

Debbie

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How old is ??? Does he like the clips?

At 03:51 PM 8/26/99 PDT, you wrote:

>

>

>Hi Phyllis,

> has the Phonak Audio Zoom- Sono Forte 332X AZ along with the Microvox

>(Mircolink) FM system. All are used thru the DHC-1 remote control.

>

>Let me suggest one thing that has been a LIFE SAVER to me, is the CRITTER

>CLIPS!!!!! I did not use the critter clip once when we went to the Mall, and

>I was a nervous wreck all day that was going to loss his aids!!! He

>does take them out at times, and it would only take a second to loose track

>of them. Especially when he takes his right aid out, it is not very loud so

>it does not whistle!!!!!

>

>You can get more information on the Critter Clips on Kay's website!!

>

>Take care,

>Debbie

>

>

>

>

>---------------------------

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Hi,

turned 1 year old on August 5!!!!!

He doesn't even know he is wearing the critter clips!!! I have a dinosaur, a

rabbit and a dog!!! They are very cute!!!

Debbie

's Mom (1year HOH)

----Original Message Follows----

Reply-To: Listen-Uponelist

To: Listen-Uponelist

Subject: Re:

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 01:09:09 -0400 (EDT)

How old is ??? Does he like the clips?

At 03:51 PM 8/26/99 PDT, you wrote:

>

>

>Hi Phyllis,

> has the Phonak Audio Zoom- Sono Forte 332X AZ along with the Microvox

>(Mircolink) FM system. All are used thru the DHC-1 remote control.

>

>Let me suggest one thing that has been a LIFE SAVER to me, is the CRITTER

>CLIPS!!!!! I did not use the critter clip once when we went to the Mall,

and

>I was a nervous wreck all day that was going to loss his aids!!! He

>does take them out at times, and it would only take a second to loose

track

>of them. Especially when he takes his right aid out, it is not very loud

so

>it does not whistle!!!!!

>

>You can get more information on the Critter Clips on Kay's website!!

>

>Take care,

>Debbie

>

>

>

>

>---------------------------

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>

>

>Hi all,

>I just got this request for donations from an organization that just

>purchased a speech processor for a hi child. I wanted to pass the info on

>just in case someone may need some financial assistance or may know of

>someone who needs it for hearing aides.

>The association is called the Children's Charity Fund, Inc.

>The phone number is 1-.

I did some searching on the web in hopes that this place has a web site.

They DID, the URL no longer exists. Also found this:

April 8, 1996

Attorney General Blumenthal and Consumer Protection

Commissioner Mark A. Shiffrin today announced that the state has filed a

lawsuit against a Florida charity, alleging that the charity misrepresents how

donations to the charity are used.But records show the charity spent just

$25,393 or about 3 percent, of its $787,138 in 1994 expenses on medical

equipment, compared to $398,783 on fund raising and $148,207 on

management. The charity also claims to have spent $188,788 educating

the public in conjunction with its telephone fund raising.

The charity's telephone solicitations and follow-up mailings represent to

potential donors that their money will help buy medical equipment for

children, Blumenthal and Shiffrin said.

" We believe the Children's Charity Fund misrepresents its purpose and

violates state law, " Blumenthal said. " Donors trust the representations of

charities and in this case, those representations do not stand up to scrutiny.

To take in over three-quarters of a million dollars from the public and spend

only a tiny fraction of it helping children is unconscionable. "

The rest of the article is available here:

http://www.cslnet.ctstateu.edu/attygenl/press/1996/charity1.htm

Barbara Handley

" I felt part of everything, part of animal and bird, tree and stone. If I

was part of everything, then I was also part of bridge and stream, of the

sharp rocks beneath the water and the tumbling, rushing waters. Even if I

fell into the waters, and even if I was swallowed up by them, I would still

be part of it all. In such a world, such a universe, nothing terrible

could happen to me. " --- Furlong

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In a message dated 9/1/99 9:08:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

handley@... writes:

<< The rest of the article is available here:

http://www.cslnet.ctstateu.edu/attygenl/press/1996/charity1.htm

Barbara Handley

>>

Barbara,

Excellent work! Whenever anyone calls for telephone solicitations, I tell

them that they are welcome to send the information in the mail. It does not

insure that the organization spends their money legitimately but it does

cover them under postal fraud laws.

Eleanor

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Barbara Handley,

You sound like a good person to have on one's side when trying to find the

justice in a situation. Do you do IEPs?

wendy

Keedy@...

Portland, Or

Clan Handley wrote:

>

>

> >

> >

> >Hi all,

> >I just got this request for donations from an organization that just

> >purchased a speech processor for a hi child. I wanted to pass the info on

> >just in case someone may need some financial assistance or may know of

> >someone who needs it for hearing aides.

> >The association is called the Children's Charity Fund, Inc.

> >The phone number is 1-.

>

> I did some searching on the web in hopes that this place has a web site.

> They DID, the URL no longer exists. Also found this:

>

> April 8, 1996

>

> Attorney General Blumenthal and Consumer Protection

> Commissioner Mark A. Shiffrin today announced that the state has filed a

> lawsuit against a Florida charity, alleging that the charity misrepresents how

> donations to the charity are used.But records show the charity spent just

> $25,393 or about 3 percent, of its $787,138 in 1994 expenses on medical

> equipment, compared to $398,783 on fund raising and $148,207 on

> management. The charity also claims to have spent $188,788 educating

> the public in conjunction with its telephone fund raising.

>

> The charity's telephone solicitations and follow-up mailings represent to

> potential donors that their money will help buy medical equipment for

> children, Blumenthal and Shiffrin said.

>

> " We believe the Children's Charity Fund misrepresents its purpose and

> violates state law, " Blumenthal said. " Donors trust the representations of

> charities and in this case, those representations do not stand up to scrutiny.

> To take in over three-quarters of a million dollars from the public and spend

> only a tiny fraction of it helping children is unconscionable. "

>

> The rest of the article is available here:

>

> http://www.cslnet.ctstateu.edu/attygenl/press/1996/charity1.htm

>

> Barbara Handley

>

> " I felt part of everything, part of animal and bird, tree and stone. If I

> was part of everything, then I was also part of bridge and stream, of the

> sharp rocks beneath the water and the tumbling, rushing waters. Even if I

> fell into the waters, and even if I was swallowed up by them, I would still

> be part of it all. In such a world, such a universe, nothing terrible

> could happen to me. " --- Furlong

>

> ---------------------------

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Barbara,

Thanks for the info. I don't think I will send them any money now. But it

might still be an option for financial assistance with aides as long as they

are still open and due to the bad publicity they may let go of their purse

strings a lot more to show good faith.

Take care!

Re:

>

>

>

>>

>>

>>Hi all,

>>I just got this request for donations from an organization that just

>>purchased a speech processor for a hi child. I wanted to pass the info on

>>just in case someone may need some financial assistance or may know of

>>someone who needs it for hearing aides.

>>The association is called the Children's Charity Fund, Inc.

>>The phone number is 1-.

>

>I did some searching on the web in hopes that this place has a web site.

>They DID, the URL no longer exists. Also found this:

>

>April 8, 1996

>

>Attorney General Blumenthal and Consumer Protection

>Commissioner Mark A. Shiffrin today announced that the state has filed a

>lawsuit against a Florida charity, alleging that the charity misrepresents

how

>donations to the charity are used.But records show the charity spent just

>$25,393 or about 3 percent, of its $787,138 in 1994 expenses on medical

>equipment, compared to $398,783 on fund raising and $148,207 on

>management. The charity also claims to have spent $188,788 educating

>the public in conjunction with its telephone fund raising.

>

>The charity's telephone solicitations and follow-up mailings represent to

>potential donors that their money will help buy medical equipment for

>children, Blumenthal and Shiffrin said.

>

> " We believe the Children's Charity Fund misrepresents its purpose and

>violates state law, " Blumenthal said. " Donors trust the representations of

>charities and in this case, those representations do not stand up to

scrutiny.

>To take in over three-quarters of a million dollars from the public and

spend

>only a tiny fraction of it helping children is unconscionable. "

>

>The rest of the article is available here:

>

>http://www.cslnet.ctstateu.edu/attygenl/press/1996/charity1.htm

>

>Barbara Handley

>

> " I felt part of everything, part of animal and bird, tree and stone. If I

>was part of everything, then I was also part of bridge and stream, of the

>sharp rocks beneath the water and the tumbling, rushing waters. Even if I

>fell into the waters, and even if I was swallowed up by them, I would still

>be part of it all. In such a world, such a universe, nothing terrible

>could happen to me. " --- Furlong

>

>---------------------------

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  • 3 weeks later...

OOOPS!

_______________________________________________________________________________

Worried Housewife

> The worried housewife sprang to the telephone when it rang and listened

with relief to the kindly voice in her ear.

" How are you, darling? " she said. " What kind of a day are you having? " " Oh,

mother, " said the housewife, breaking into bitter tears, " I've had such a

bad day. The baby won't eat and the washing machine broke down. I haven't

had a chance to go shopping, and besides, I've just sprained my ankle and I

have to hobble around. On top of that, the house is a mess and I'm supposed

to have two couples to dinner tonight. " The mother was shocked and was at

once all sympathy. " Oh, darling, " she said, " sit down, relax, and close your

eyes. I'll be over in half an hour. I'll do your shopping, clean up the

house, and cook your dinner for you. I'll feed the baby and I'll call a

repairman I know who'll be at your house to fix the washing machine

promptly. Now stop crying. I'll do everything. In fact, I'll even call

at the office and tell him he ought to come home and help out for

once. " " ? " said the housewife. " Who's ? " why, ! Your

husband!....Is this 223-1374 " No, this is 223-1375. " " Oh, I'm sorry. I guess

I have the wrong number. " There was a short pause and the housewife said,

" Does this mean you're not coming over? "

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