Re: 911:: Screens - Phones - Privacy

[Guest guest]

In reference to " into personal freedom " Weintraut:

This theory works when you're having a minor problem, but the purpose of

ALI is to provide information for people that may be unable to do so due to

circumstances beyond their control. Several instances that come to mind

without much thought are people that can't be understood due to slurred

speech during a CVA, a choking victim, a person with a language issue, a

person having a domestic or extremely active incident that pushes 911 and

then is unable to actually talk on the phone, a person that passes out after

getting out the first part of their address in a city of 200,000 people, etc.

etc. etc. It's technology like any other, privacy needs to be protected by

quality assurance not lack of a system.

Mike Snyder

Cumberland County 911

Carlisle, PA

mikecfd42@...

In a message dated 8/12/01 3:23:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

rweintraut@... writes:

> >We were told by Ameritech if

> the phone listee wants to be listed as " Mickey Mouse " they can have it that

> way and Ameritech cannot change it. <

>

> Ahhh..... my old " hippie " days are going to show here.

>

> I have a right to call myself anything I want, as long as I don't use it to

> defraud someone, or commit a criminal act.

>

> It's my business if I want my number unlisted/unpublished (If the

> phone company allows it, it becomes my right).

>

> It is my opinion that I should have the right NOT to have my

> name/address or any other information in a 9-1-1 centers

> computer.

>

> Yep... you're gonna have to ask me my address, and that takes

> about 1 second... and you're gonna have to ask me my phone

> number.. another second... and maybe even ask me for

> directions to my residence (which you should be doing any way.)

>

> I don't care.

>

> If I don't want my information in your computers, it shouldn't be there.

>

> " into personal freedom " Weintraut

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/12/01 3:51:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

rweintraut@... writes:

While you may be willing to assume this additional risk in the spirit of

personal freedom, do you really want to make that sort of choice for every

member of your family or guest of your home? This is truly a topic that we

are not likely to agree on, because I take your hippie reference to mean

you're an older gentleman while I'm just a snot nosed 22 year old. :-) I

think maybe the generational differences might have something to do with the

views on big brother and privacy.

>

> >but the purpose of

> ALI is to provide information for people that may be unable to do so due to

> circumstances beyond their control.

>

> Yes.

>

> I understand this.

>

> I realize that I must accept the responsibility of not having this

> information immediately available to emergency responders.

>

> If I am willing to accept that responsibility, I should have the right

> not to have my information in your computers.

>

> Weintraut

>

[Guest guest]

I always thought it was a privilege to have a telephone. When it becomes a

" right " and the government provides me with my phone,at no cost to me, then

the government will have the right to have the information.

As a dispatcher I like having the information I want/need at my fingertips.

But if a phone customer doesn't want that information given out under any

circumstances, then its the customers fault that they die on the floor after

dialing 9-1-1 where no ani/ali is displayed. Let their heirs try to sue.

When my depts attorney shows their attorney the information, case closed.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

>but the purpose of

ALI is to provide information for people that may be unable to do so due to

circumstances beyond their control.

Yes.

I understand this.

I realize that I must accept the responsibility of not having this

information immediately available to emergency responders.

If I am willing to accept that responsibility, I should have the right

not to have my information in your computers.

Weintraut

[Guest guest]

>While you may be willing to assume this additional risk in the spirit of

personal freedom, do you really want to make that sort of choice for every

member of your family or guest of your home?

I live alone.

When I was married, with small children, I certainly would have wanted

the information available to the dispatcher center.

My point is... It should be MY decision whether or not to make the

information available... not a government agency, not the phone

company, not a 9-1-1 official... MY decision.

>This is truly a topic that we are not likely to agree on, because I take

your hippie reference to mean you're an older gentleman while I'm just a

snot nosed 22 year old. :-)

You're probably right... we may never agree here.

Although I might disagree with the term " older gentleman " .. (makes me

think of my grandfather)... I am 54 years old, and I certainly do have

problems with the " big brother " question.

You are correct that the privacy concern should be a " quality assurance "

program at 9-1-1 centers. And it is at many of them, but there are abuses,

and those are my concern.

I've worked for some type of police agency for over 28 years, so I

doubt that I could be called " anti police " .... but I am " pro privacy " .

If I want an unpublished/unlisted phone number, the police,

government, or 9-1-1 centers have no more right to that information

than anyone in the public sector, unless I choose to give it to them.

To set the record straight... I'm not unpublished, unlisted and I am

in the local 9-1-1 system.

But if I don't want to be... I should have that choice.

Weintraut

[Guest guest]

> " It is stipulated that always

did have some peculiar ideas, but they [phone co/law enforcement/etc]

should/could have done more to protect himself from himself. " <g>

Well... unpublished or not... Mumaw certainly has my number.

Please.... don't protect himself from himself... just leave him alone.

(grin)

Weintraut

[Guest guest]

>I always thought it was a privilege to have a telephone.

I PAY for my telephone, along with that payment, if the telephone

company offers it, I have the right to have my number unpublished

and unlisted.

>As a dispatcher I like having the information I want/need at my fingertips.

Sure, we all like that.

But it is not our " right " to have it.

>But if a phone customer doesn't want that information given out under any

circumstances, then its the customers fault that they die on the floor after

dialing 9-1-1 where no ani/ali is displayed.

Yes, it is.

Weintraut

[Guest guest]

> I realize that I must accept the responsibility of not having this

> information immediately available to emergency responders.

>

> If I am willing to accept that responsibility, I should have the

right

> not to have my information in your computers.

Unfortunately, in this litious era, will your heirs and assigns also

be willing to accept your acceptance of responsibility or will they

take it to a trier of facts to find that the phone co and the PSAP

was at fault for allowing you to do so?

I can hear the argument now, " It is stipulated that always

did have some peculiar ideas, but they [phone co/law enforcement/etc]

should/could have done more to protect himself from himself. " <g>

---

My PSAP still receives a number of calls with no name showing, but

with accurate address and phone number. That's good enough for me;

names can always be gotten when units get on scene.

Roy Mumaw

CAPD Arroyo Grande

[Guest guest]

I have to agree with on this one. I know how aggravating it is to us as

professionals to have to deal with this..but it is eventually my decision and my

responsibility to deal with the consequences of that decision. Now, if I choose

to exercise this degree of personal freedom, and find myself in the situations

Mike describes...the ONLY one I can hold responsible if help does not arrive in

a

" timely " manner is myself. What I fear happens too often, is people want to

exercise the " freedom " but forget that freedom has a price tag of

responsibility.

Freida

LaVergne, TN

mikecfd42@... wrote:

> In reference to " into personal freedom " Weintraut:

>

> << It's technology like any other, privacy needs to be protected by quality

> assurance not lack of a system.>>

[Guest guest]

Well, since this thread started because of some guy who wanted

his fone listed as Mickey Mouse, it would perhaps be appropriate

for me to mention that I'm probably the only contributor to this list

right now who has actually dispatched an ambulance and a fire

engine to the REAL Mickey Mouse, or at least, to his house. He

and Minnie have their own houses and a greet & meet structure in

the Mickey's Toontown Fair section of the Magic Kingdom at the

Walt Disney World Resort in Florida.

More on point, I would agree whole-heartedly that the telephone

subscriber has every right to have his fone listed as he sees fit. I have

known people who listed their fone under their mother's maiden name,

and I list mine under my legal name rather than the nickname that I go

by. If anyone calls asking for me by my legal first name, I know it's

someone who doesn't know me and to whom I probably do not want to talk.

On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 on 14:24:20,

Without wrote:

>

> Ahhh..... my old " hippie " days are going to show here.

> I have a right to call myself anything I want, as long as I don't use it to

> defraud someone, or commit a criminal act.

>

My son was looking at some old pictures of mine and when he came to some

of my college pictures, he exclaimed, " You were a hippie! " He said it like I

had the plague or something. But I would agree that in a free society you do

in fact have this right. And more power to you.

> It is my opinion that I should have the right NOT to have my

> name/address or any other information in a 9-1-1 centers

> computer.

The places I've worked it would not be in the 9-1-1 center's computer. It

would be

in the fone company's computer and that information would be furnished via high

speed comm link to the 9-1-1 center. I suppose in principle I would have no

problem

with an opt-out alternative if that also included a written hold-harmless

waiver of all

damages regardless of how inflicted arising from the opt-out action. That

is, if your

grandkid came over, you had a stroke and couldn't talk, grandkid knew enough to

call 9-1-1 but had no clue as to what granddad's address was, then neither you,

your kids, your grandkid, nor your surviving widow or estate could bring a

civil action

against the fone company, the public service agency, or any of their

agents, express

or implied.

I would even take it one step further and say that you would be required by

fone

company policy to post a notice with each of your fones that the ALI/ANI

feature

would not work on that fone. Thus, I, as a guest in your home, would not

have to

rely on constructive notice that any call I made would not identify to

9-1-1 despite

my expectation that it would.

> If I don't want my information in your computers, it shouldn't be there.

> " into personal freedom " Weintraut

I value my freedom as much if not more than the next person. That is to be

expected

since I will freely admit that I'm a bit of a strange bird who is not

motivated by many

of the things that seem to motivate a lot of other people. However, even I am

compelled to admit that under our constitutional system, the government is

entitled

to violate that privacy under certain circumstances.

I personally believe that there is a compelling public safety issue and hence

compelling state interest in providing ANI/ALI information on 9-1-1 calls

and that the

general public should have an expectation of that service being available when

invited into your home on your home fones unless you explicitly inform them

that

such is not the case.

-jackie

Jackie McElroy

y Creek Fire Dept.

Walt Disney World, Florida

(I speak for me and only me.)

http://www.reedycreekdispatch.webservepro.com

http://sites.netscape.net/mcjackietron/

mailto:mcjackietron@...

[Guest guest]

In ref to ALI information, When Polk Co first had E911 GTE now Verizon had in

he information section of the phone book a message that if people did not

want an address or phone number on a 911 display that they should locate &

use the admin number when calling for an emergency. It doesn't make any sense

because they would give us the same information anyway.

Larry R.

Communication Shift Supervisor

Polk Co Public Safety / EMS