Re: How can I improve

[Guest guest]

The problem is you are making too much RT3 whihc then binds to the

receptors that T3 needs ot enter the cells. So NO T3 can get to the

cells to do all the great things thyroidis meant to do for you Already

you have two sources for RT3 you ar taking. T4 isw what RT3 ismade from

and ytou take not only Armrou which contains T4 but you are also taking

MORE T4. You need to stop the RT3 at the source and replace it with all

T3. YThat is the onyl thing I have found that reliably improves health

once you get the bad RT3/T3 ratio.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

>

How to I begin the process to go on T3 only? What steps would one

first take, and wouldnt my body miss the T4? Would there be bad

reactions to not getting the T4? This is all so new to me. I just

dont know where to start.

> The problem is you are making too much RT3 whihc then binds to the

> receptors that T3 needs ot enter the cells. So NO T3 can get to the

> cells to do all the great things thyroidis meant to do for you

Already

> you have two sources for RT3 you ar taking. T4 isw what RT3 ismade

from

> and ytou take not only Armrou which contains T4 but you are also

taking

> MORE T4. You need to stop the RT3 at the source and replace it with

all

> T3. YThat is the onyl thing I have found that reliably improves

health

> once you get the bad RT3/T3 ratio.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

>

[Guest guest]

I would drop the T4 lioke a hot potato! not onyl will your body not miss

it, it will breathe a sigh of releif from not having high RT3 levels

from the start. Armrou you can replace JUST the t3 that is in it to

begin with, so if on 1 grains of Armoru start with 10mcg T3, and drop

Armoru as well. in 3-5 days start increasing the T3 by 5-10 mcg as you

tolerate it, until you get to 75mcg or hit 8 weks into treatment. In 8

weeks your T4 will be cleared then you can use the temps and pulse rates

to incr3ease T3 if you need to to help clear out the RT3.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

>

I will have to read your post quite a few times (brain fog) and i

hope I dont drive you nuts with my future questions.

I will have to do this with mds approval and hope

they cooperate on this......

Q/ At some point wont i need to add some t4 back?? Our body does need

this, right?

thanks....................

-----------

> I would drop the T4 lioke a hot potato! not onyl will your body not

miss

> it, it will breathe a sigh of releif from not having high RT3

levels

> from the start. Armrou you can replace JUST the t3 that is in it to

> begin with, so if on 1 grains of Armoru start with 10mcg T3, and

drop

> Armoru as well. in 3-5 days start increasing the T3 by 5-10 mcg as

you

> tolerate it, until you get to 75mcg or hit 8 weks into treatment.

In 8

> weeks your T4 will be cleared then you can use the temps and pulse

rates

> to incr3ease T3 if you need to to help clear out the RT3.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

>

[Guest guest]

I know some people that have been onT3 only for years without problems.

And I ahve YET to find any research to show that we need T4 for anything

BUT conversion to T3 and if you have enough T3 in your body what do you

need T4 for? I really looked for this info and it is just no tthere.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

I'll second what Val just said.. True.. if you are a good converter,

converting to Free T3 and not Reverse T3, then T4 is a great storage

resource... allowing your body to take it, as needed, to convert to Free

T3, keeping your levels even and in keeping with your body's needs.. but

if your body can't convert it.. or converts to too much Reverse T3...

then that stored T4 hormone serves no positive purpose at all...

The other active hormones, T2 and T1... are converted from T3, not T4...

so that isn't a consideration either.

Topper ()

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:04:12 -0500

writes:

> I know some people that have been onT3 only for years without

> problems.

> And I ahve YET to find any research to show that we need T4 for

> anything

> BUT conversion to T3 and if you have enough T3 in your body what do

> you

> need T4 for? I really looked for this info and it is just no

> tthere.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

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[Guest guest]

Yes I am on my second trial going back ot Armour and it is rough again this

tie. The first time I gave it up as I was beginning to feel horrible again.

I am currently on 3 grians Armour and 75mcg T3,. But I am teetering on going

back to all T3 as I am not feeling right.

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

>

Why is being on Armour rough for you- what symptoms are you having?

I was on 120 Armour only and went very hyper-could that have been

because of my Rt3?

_____

> Yes I am on my second trial going back ot Armour and it is rough

again this

> tie. The first time I gave it up as I was beginning to feel horrible

again.

> I am currently on 3 grians Armour and 75mcg T3,. But I am teetering

on going

> back to all T3 as I am not feeling right.

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > For folks that habitually skip meals or are on severe caloric

> > restrictions, the body will intentionally increase the production

of

> > Reverse T3 to block hormone receptors.. this will slow metabolic

> > rate and

> > allow the body to survive a famine.

> >

> > There have been studies showing that folks dealing with anorexia

and

> > bulimia show a higher incidence of Thyroid disorder and/or

increased

> > levels of Reverse T3..

> >

> I am now convinced that this, along with high cortisol, is what is

> shunting my T4 to RT3. I had leukemia almost 15 years ago, and if

that

> isn't a situation where the body is under severe stress and shuts

> itself down, I don't know what is. Add to that the fact that I

> listened to my previous doctor for five years while she kept

telling

> me I was eating too much and not exercising enough, so I was doing

30

> minutes a day on my elliptical and had cut my calorie intake down

to

> about 1200 calories a day (and was still gaining weight at an

alarming

> rate). I am sure my body thought it should be in starvation mode,

so

> there it went and there it has stayed. I finally fired her and

found a

> doctor who believed me when I said I thought my thyroid was shot.

>

> When I went on Armour and sublingual progesterone (for estrogen

> dominance), I promptly lost 10 of the extra 30 pounds I had

gained.

> Then the weight loss stopped. Last December I was up to 6 grains

of

> Armour a day, felt fantastic, and those stubborn 20 pounds were

> beginning to melt off. Then my doctor panicked, said I was at risk

for

> osteoporosis (I just e-mailed him the link that birdyy posted--

> thanks!), and made me cut back. This past summer when Armour was

in

> short supply, he put me on Naturethroid. I immediately went hypo

again.

>

> August and September were particularly stressful times for me, and

I

> started gaining weight and losing my hair again. My doctor said my

FT3

> and FT4 levels were fine. I pushed for a RT3 test and lo and behold-

-I

> have excessive amounts of RT3. When he saw that he agreed to take

me

> off the Armour and put me on compounded T3. I see him on Monday

and

> hopefully he will have the T3 and be ready to let me begin taking

it.

> He is a naturopath and learned about 's protocol when he was

in

> school, but has not used it since.

>

> Unfortunately, when my first doc told me I was eating too much, I

> trained myself NOT to eat, so I know that's something I should

work

> on. I would like to feel as good again as I did last December, when

I

> had plenty of energy and was losing weight. I've always been on

the

> thin side, so for me, gaining an extra 30 pounds has been the

worst

> part of being hypo.

>

> Janet Szabo

> jknitter@...

>

[Guest guest]

Compounded T3 is T3 that is mixed wiht a substance ot make it release slowly

into the system. I have found MOST compounded T3 is veyr weak. Possibly as

alot is lost ot digestion as it will mix wiht food ove rthe time it is

released but it also works well for some people.

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

I'm on 4 2/3 grain per day...

16 of the doses are 1/4 grain each.. the other 4 are 1/6 grain each...

I chop my doses..

This page is a few years old.. but it will still give you the visual of

how I set up my hormone doses and my supplements...

http://www.thyrophoenix.com/thyrogeek's_pill_paks.htm

I was a into weight lifting before my gland went wonky (I have a genetic

defect in my TSH receptors.. so my gland never got proper instruction on

what to produce.. I ended up going into storm, dumb doc never caught on

and by the time I was diagnosed I was at the point where they had to kill

my gland with RAI before it killed me)....

.... any way I got into nutrition and learned about supplements and

nourishing the body...

When I was crapped out hypo after a decade of dumb docs and started

learning about thyroid and how to actually do something and not just

blame it on mental retardation (you know dumb docs.. it's all in your

head.. eat less, exercise more) I got to thinking of something... if the

body, when hypo, tires really easily with exercise, any physical

activity, does it not sound logical that the digestive system might tire

too? Is that why it was sometimes so hard to look at food, that it just

wasn't getting digested right and that was contributing to the chronic,

painful, constipation??

So I experimented with a few lifestyle-type changes, and how I took

supplements, and my doses.. and have just been tweaking stuff over the

years (I started self treating almost six and a half years ago).

So.. Mini mealing was a lifestyle change... small meals every three

hours.. eating 5 to 7 times per day to meet my daily calorie needs...

Splitting up my supplements to take more than once a day, I chose to

quarter everything that I could and dose the supps with four of my mini

meals. Except for the oil based stuff (vitamin E, A, fishoil.. etc) I

take those with first meal.

...and adjusting the thyroid doses... as I worked my daily dose up... I

tended to split into multi-doses instead of increasing a single daily

dose.. eventually moving to dosing every 4 hours.. then 3 hours.. then 2

hours... I felt I was doing pretty good dosing every two hours... feeling

more 'even' during the day. Then I was having trouble getting meds.. my

shipments were being stopped. I ended up running out of whole thyroid and

went to T3 only.. till that ran out too.... I found another source of

whole gland and then had to start building up my dose again... I aimed

for the old regime where I was dosing every two hours, like I had before

pills got scarce and I started reducing my dose.. and eventually running

out.

But.. I didn't feel quite.. right... and decided, as an experiment to try

dosing every hour.... It was a hassle.. but I liked how I felt... very

'even'. No highs.. no lows... no constantly looking at the time cuz I was

starting to 'crash' and needed to dose.. it just felt right.

I did that for a few weeks.. and was due for a 1/6 grain increase (I was

getting close to my optimal and am VERY sensitive to adjustments, so I

make small adjustments at that point) and on a lark decided to take it

during the night.. I set my alarm for midnight... and would take the 1/6

grain dose and go back to sleep.

Oh, gosh... it 'fit' right away.. slept like a rock.. felt much better in

the morning... I did that for a few weeks... then stopped using the alarm

when I noticed that I was waking before the alarm, wanting to dose...

roughly three hours after my bed time dose... So, without an alarm I

just let my body decide if it wanted to dose or not and left it at

that....

As time passed I added two more 1/6 grain doses to my daily total and

fiddled with some of the daily doses.. and that's how I ended up where I

am now.

During the summer heat I was much much less active.. I don't tolerate

heat well.. and went most nights during the summer without waking to

dose.. I would still wake for potty runs, or when thirsty.. but no desire

to dose...

Cold weather has returned.. I'm much more active again.. and I find

myself waking for my over night doses again.. really fascinating how it

all works!

It is a hassle dosing hourly... but I sure do like how it feels.. as I

said.. there is no HIGH and then LOW as I no longer take larger doses so

far apart... there is no surge with the large dose and then a backslide

as the available T3 in the blood is used up...

Its soooo off my mind now that I have to dose I'm back to using a

reminder alarm, I can tell if I've missed a dose.. by the second hour I'm

feeling funky.. but if I set the alarm during the day, dose hourly and

just do it routinely... I feel... normal. Just forget that I'm 'broken'.

That's pretty cool, as far as I'm concerned...

I HOPE that as my body settles in and makes all the internal adjustments

that I can spread dosing out again.. that would be more convenient.. but

considering all the torture I've been through all the years before I

figured out what help MY body needed... hourly dosing and mini mealing

with a pile of supplements is a very small price to pay.

Before I learned this stuff and my own body response I was on crutches

and in constant pain... popping advil 20 and 30 at a time.... just trying

to manage pain... I kinda suspect that might have something to do with my

poor conversion now... that I've done damage.. I don't know, I may never

know... but I sure know that dosing every hour to feel 'right' beats the

dickens out of a hundred or more advil going down my throat every day and

still hurting!!!

Topper ()

On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:02:32 -0700 sol writes:

> How much do you take total each day? How do you get the doses small

> enough to take so many?

> thanks,

> sol

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[Guest guest]

wrote:

> What I have been doing to try to switch over to Amrour is started 1 grain

Armour, thne in 2 weeks dropped 25mcg T3, thne in 2 weeks added another grain

Armoru and thne 2 weeks dropped 25mcg T3. Yo could do it wekly with 1/2 grain

Armoru thne dropping 12.5mcg T3. But raise the Armoru BEFORE lowering T3 as it

takes about 4-6 weeks for the T4 in Amrour to build and start converting.

>

I'm confused. If it takes 4-6 weeks for the T4 to build and start

converting, isn't 2 weeks way too fast to be dropping out any T3?

Shouldn't you be adding Armour, then waiting much closer to the 4 -6

weeks to drop some T3? Can you explain why you are doing it at two weeks?

Need to know because I'm going to start adding some thyroid S today. I

figured I would add 1/2 grain, then in 4 -6 weeks re-evaluate symptoms

before dropping any T3. Of course if I develop hyper symptoms before

that, I would drop some T3.

sol

[Guest guest]

Count the T3 in the Armour I am adding. I am not dropping much more than

that.

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

Thanks, your explanation and theories make sense to me!

I will take them into consideration in my latest attempt to add some

thyroid S.

I've already been thinking along the same line, but you are way ahead of me.

Very nice website, I like it!

sol

topper2@... wrote:

> www.thyrophoenix.com/adjusting_doses.htm

>

> I added in 1/4 grain of Armour, 4 weeks later I reduced by 1/4 of a 25

> mcg tablet of T3... I was still feeling kinda crappy till things

> adjusted again.. but I was able to transition from the straight T3 back

> to whole gland pretty well...

>

> If the you originally went on T3-only to allow the body to 'clean out'

> the Reverse T3 that was blocking T3 hormone receptors... I would think it

> would be even more important to not allow the level of available Free T3

> to drop too dramatically, for too long, while waiting for the body to

> build up T4 reserves and start kicking up it's conversion. That would

> make it less likely that the T3 receptors would be blocked again by

> Reverse T3.....

>

> The drop in active hormone levels (Free T3) in the blood would drop the

> metabolic rate.. bringing on the conditions that would promote conversion

> of Reverse T3 in an attempt to slow body processes down again for the

> perceived shortage of active hormone.

>

> .. anyway.. that's what is muddling through my brain this early Sunday

> morning.

>

> Topper ()

>

[Guest guest]

The better you can understand the basics the better you can apply stuff

to your own body response and make decisions that fit YOUR body...

We don't all respond in the same way.... so it's really important to be

able to be able to relate what you are experiencing.. your symptoms... to

some sort of baseline... like how the hormones 'normally' work...

Once it starts making sense.. then you can start tweaking things and

watch for body response and get a better idea of what you need to know...

The HARDEST part is giving trials a long enough time to get a decent

response.. not everything works in a 'day or two'! hehehe

Glad that page helped...

*shy smile*

Topper ()

On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 15:42:47 -0700 sol writes:

> Thanks, your explanation and theories make sense to me!

> I will take them into consideration in my latest attempt to add some

> thyroid S.

> I've already been thinking along the same line, but you are way

> ahead of me.

> Very nice website, I like it!

> sol

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