Diagnose me please? Test results

[Guest guest]

Hi Val

I hope you don't mind helping me interpret my results.

I have been lurking in the background for some time now trying to get

my head around everything. Had some tests done in December. But first

a quick overview. I am 49 not overweight (BMI 21). History of (20+

years) fatigue, depression, anxiety, IBS, poor sleep, coldness, tan

very easily, frequent unexplained lower back and neck/shoulder pain,

all hair fell out as a young child due to stress.

Meds:

25-30mg HC in 4-5 doses 10,5,5,5,5 (4 hourly)

45mg SR Whole Thyroid. Started on 30mg but have been on current dose

for 5 weeks.

Progesterone 200mg capsule at night and 16mg in oil on skin in

morning, though just learning that this could be causing the high

estrogen showing in my test results. So am currently cutting back to

20mg of oil only.

Melatonin 1mg

DHEA 7 Keto as doc concerned that normal DHEA maybe causing high estrogen

DIM 100mg twice a day (to lower estrogen)

Zopiclone 7.5mg (for sleep)

Test results:

Following saliva tests were done while I was on 15 mg of HC

Estrone E1 (12%) 25.1*high (9.6-20.0)

Estradiol E2 (44.9%) 93.9 (no range given, doc says -should be 18)

Estriol E3 (43.1%) 90.3*high (15.0-29.0)

E3/[E2+E1] Ratio 0.76*low (>1.00)

Progesterone P4 >15999 (no range given)

P4/E2 Ratio 170.4 (no range given)

Testosterone 410.0*high (25.0-190.0)

Cortisol Morning 22.3 (6.00-42.00)

Cortisol Afternoon 18.10*high (2.00-15.00)

Cortisol Midnight <2.80 (1.00-8.00)

DHEAS 2.6 (2.5-25.0) (was on 15mg DHEA when this test was done)

Melatonin Midnight 42*high (10-40)

Following are Thyroid bloods. First are before Thyroid meds and second

set is after 3 weeks on 30mg Whole Thyroid. Don't have results yet

from recent test as doc on summer vacation.

TSH – no meds 0.69 with meds 0.72 (0.4-4.0)

Free T4 – no meds 13.5 with meds 12.8 (9.0-19.0)

Free T3 – no meds 3.7 with meds 3.9 (2.5-6.0)

Current symptoms are: fatigue, low energy, moods changing from deep

depression to anxiety with palpitations very irritable and sesitive to

" I don't care " , sometimes almost OK but then in same day can become

weak, shaky and dizzy. Memory and cognitive skills in very poor shape

(think I'm going nuts). Waking temp is 97.3 resting pulse around 65.

Sorry there is a lot to digest.

Really looking forward to your thoughts.

Cheers

Jane

[Guest guest]

Wanted to say that keto-7 DID convert to estrogen for me...do not believe that it doesnt.

Subject: Diagnose me please? Test resultsTo: RT3_T3 Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 10:26 PM

Hi ValI hope you don't mind helping me interpret my results.I have been lurking in the background for some time now trying to getmy head around everything. Had some tests done in December. But firsta quick overview. I am 49 not overweight (BMI 21). History of (20+years) fatigue, depression, anxiety, IBS, poor sleep, coldness, tanvery easily, frequent unexplained lower back and neck/shoulder pain,all hair fell out as a young child due to stress. Meds:25-30mg HC in 4-5 doses 10,5,5,5,5 (4 hourly)45mg SR Whole Thyroid. Started on 30mg but have been on current dosefor 5 weeks.Progesterone 200mg capsule at night and 16mg in oil on skin inmorning, though just learning that this could be causing the highestrogen showing in my test results. So am currently cutting back to20mg of oil only.Melatonin 1mg DHEA 7 Keto as doc concerned that normal DHEA maybe causing

high estrogenDIM 100mg twice a day (to lower estrogen)Zopiclone 7.5mg (for sleep)Test results:Following saliva tests were done while I was on 15 mg of HCEstrone E1 (12%) 25.1*high (9.6-20.0)Estradiol E2 (44.9%) 93.9 (no range given, doc says -should be 18)Estriol E3 (43.1%) 90.3*high (15.0-29.0)E3/[E2+E1] Ratio 0.76*low (>1.00)Progesterone P4 >15999 (no range given)P4/E2 Ratio 170.4 (no range given)Testosterone 410.0*high (25.0-190.0)Cortisol Morning 22.3 (6.00-42.00)Cortisol Afternoon 18.10*high (2.00-15.00)Cortisol Midnight <2.80 (1.00-8.00)DHEAS 2.6 (2.5-25.0) (was on 15mg DHEA when this test was done)Melatonin Midnight 42*high (10-40)Following are Thyroid bloods. First are before Thyroid meds and secondset is after 3 weeks on 30mg Whole Thyroid. Don't have results yetfrom recent test as doc on summer vacation.TSH – no meds 0.69 with meds

0.72 (0.4-4.0)Free T4 – no meds 13.5 with meds 12.8 (9.0-19.0)Free T3 – no meds 3.7 with meds 3.9 (2.5-6.0)Current symptoms are: fatigue, low energy, moods changing from deepdepression to anxiety with palpitations very irritable and sesitive to"I don't care", sometimes almost OK but then in same day can becomeweak, shaky and dizzy. Memory and cognitive skills in very poor shape(think I'm going nuts). Waking temp is 97.3 resting pulse around 65. Sorry there is a lot to digest.Really looking forward to your thoughts.CheersJane------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Thanks Leisa

Maybe I should just stop it for a while.

It's hard to know what is doing what really.

One thing that is really persistant at the moment is a weird feeling

in my feet that is a burning feeling but they are actually cold to

touch most of the time.

Anyone got any ideas on that?

>

>

>

> Subject: Diagnose me please? Test results

> To: RT3_T3

> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 10:26 PM

>

>

> Hi Val

>

> I hope you don't mind helping me interpret my results.

> I have been lurking in the background for some time now trying to get

> my head around everything. Had some tests done in December. But first

> a quick overview. I am 49 not overweight (BMI 21). History of (20+

> years) fatigue, depression, anxiety, IBS, poor sleep, coldness, tan

> very easily, frequent unexplained lower back and neck/shoulder pain,

> all hair fell out as a young child due to stress.

>

> Meds:

>

> 25-30mg HC in 4-5 doses 10,5,5,5,5 (4 hourly)

> 45mg SR Whole Thyroid. Started on 30mg but have been on current dose

> for 5 weeks.

> Progesterone 200mg capsule at night and 16mg in oil on skin in

> morning, though just learning that this could be causing the high

> estrogen showing in my test results. So am currently cutting back to

> 20mg of oil only.

> Melatonin 1mg

> DHEA 7 Keto as doc concerned that normal DHEA maybe causing high

estrogen

> DIM 100mg twice a day (to lower estrogen)

> Zopiclone 7.5mg (for sleep)

>

> Test results:

>

> Following saliva tests were done while I was on 15 mg of HC

>

> Estrone E1 (12%) 25.1*high (9.6-20.0)

> Estradiol E2 (44.9%) 93.9 (no range given, doc says -should be 18)

> Estriol E3 (43.1%) 90.3*high (15.0-29.0)

> E3/[E2+E1] Ratio 0.76*low (>1.00)

> Progesterone P4 >15999 (no range given)

> P4/E2 Ratio 170.4 (no range given)

> Testosterone 410.0*high (25.0-190.0)

> Cortisol Morning 22.3 (6.00-42.00)

> Cortisol Afternoon 18.10*high (2.00-15.00)

> Cortisol Midnight <2.80 (1.00-8.00)

> DHEAS 2.6 (2.5-25.0) (was on 15mg DHEA when this test was done)

> Melatonin Midnight 42*high (10-40)

>

> Following are Thyroid bloods. First are before Thyroid meds and second

> set is after 3 weeks on 30mg Whole Thyroid. Don't have results yet

> from recent test as doc on summer vacation.

>

> TSH – no meds 0.69 with meds 0.72 (0.4-4.0)

> Free T4 – no meds 13.5 with meds 12.8 (9.0-19.0)

> Free T3 – no meds 3.7 with meds 3.9 (2.5-6.0)

>

> Current symptoms are: fatigue, low energy, moods changing from deep

> depression to anxiety with palpitations very irritable and sesitive to

> " I don't care " , sometimes almost OK but then in same day can become

> weak, shaky and dizzy. Memory and cognitive skills in very poor shape

> (think I'm going nuts). Waking temp is 97.3 resting pulse around 65.

>

> Sorry there is a lot to digest.

> Really looking forward to your thoughts.

>

> Cheers

> Jane

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

That burning feeling in my feet was blood sugar problem that went away with quiting most carbs..I mean pasta, bread, tortillas, potatoes. Also isocort helped.

About the dhea..I just saw a doctor here who saus many women cant take dhea. she says sometimes the things you really are low on, your body cant take and accept. she advised me to get homeopathic dhea. Believe ME I dont believe in homeoptahic at all, but Im going to order some, since I am so low and dont think it can hurt. I am also severly low in pregnenalona and cant take it either

Subject: Re: Diagnose me please? Test resultsTo: RT3_T3 Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 6:40 PM

Thanks LeisaMaybe I should just stop it for a while.It's hard to know what is doing what really.One thing that is really persistant at the moment is a weird feelingin my feet that is a burning feeling but they are actually cold totouch most of the time.Anyone got any ideas on that?> > > > Subject: Diagnose me please? Test results> To: RT3_T3 > Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 10:26 PM> > > Hi Val> > I hope you don't mind helping me interpret my results.> I have been lurking in the background for some time now trying to get> my head around everything. Had some tests done in December. But first> a quick overview. I am 49 not overweight (BMI 21). History of (20+> years) fatigue, depression, anxiety, IBS, poor sleep, coldness, tan> very easily, frequent unexplained lower back and neck/shoulder pain,> all hair fell out as a young child due to stress. > > Meds:> > 25-30mg HC in 4-5 doses 10,5,5,5,5 (4 hourly)> 45mg SR Whole Thyroid. Started on 30mg but have been on current dose> for 5 weeks.> Progesterone 200mg capsule at night and 16mg in oil on skin in> morning, though just learning that

this could be causing the high> estrogen showing in my test results. So am currently cutting back to> 20mg of oil only.> Melatonin 1mg > DHEA 7 Keto as doc concerned that normal DHEA maybe causing highestrogen> DIM 100mg twice a day (to lower estrogen)> Zopiclone 7.5mg (for sleep)> > Test results:> > Following saliva tests were done while I was on 15 mg of HC> > Estrone E1 (12%) 25.1*high (9.6-20.0)> Estradiol E2 (44.9%) 93.9 (no range given, doc says -should be 18)> Estriol E3 (43.1%) 90.3*high (15.0-29.0)> E3/[E2+E1] Ratio 0.76*low (>1.00)> Progesterone P4 >15999 (no range given)> P4/E2 Ratio 170.4 (no range given)> Testosterone 410.0*high (25.0-190.0)> Cortisol Morning 22.3 (6.00-42.00)> Cortisol Afternoon 18.10*high (2.00-15.00)> Cortisol Midnight <2.80 (1.00-8.00)> DHEAS 2.6

(2.5-25.0) (was on 15mg DHEA when this test was done)> Melatonin Midnight 42*high (10-40)> > Following are Thyroid bloods. First are before Thyroid meds and second> set is after 3 weeks on 30mg Whole Thyroid. Don't have results yet> from recent test as doc on summer vacation.> > TSH – no meds 0.69 with meds 0.72 (0.4-4.0)> Free T4 – no meds 13.5 with meds 12.8 (9.0-19.0)> Free T3 – no meds 3.7 with meds 3.9 (2.5-6.0)> > Current symptoms are: fatigue, low energy, moods changing from deep> depression to anxiety with palpitations very irritable and sesitive to> "I don't care", sometimes almost OK but then in same day can become> weak, shaky and dizzy. Memory and cognitive skills in very poor shape> (think I'm going nuts). Waking temp is 97.3 resting pulse around 65. > > Sorry there is a lot to digest.> Really looking forward

to your thoughts.> > Cheers> Jane> > > ------------------------------------> >

[Guest guest]

---At 05:40 PM 1/16/2009, Jane wrote:

>

>Thanks Leisa

>Maybe I should just stop it for a while.

>It's hard to know what is doing what really.

>One thing that is really persistant at the moment is a weird feeling in my feet

that is a burning feeling but they are actually cold to touch most of the time.

>Anyone got any ideas on that?

B12 deficiency?

http://www.google.com/search?q=b12+paresthesia+burning

---

[Guest guest]

oh your right...the bentiofome, spelling could be wrong, really helped with that. Life extension has a huge article of research on this product correcting diabetic neuropathy.>>Thanks Leisa>Maybe I should just stop it for a while.>It's hard to know what is doing what really.>One thing that is really persistant at the moment is a weird feeling in my feet that is a burning feeling but they are actually cold to touch most of the time.>Anyone got any ideas on that?B12 deficiency?http://www.google.com/search?q=b12+paresthesia+burning--- ------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

> > Free T4 – no meds 13.5 with meds 12.8 (9.0-19.0)

> > Free T3 – no meds 3.7 with meds 3.9 (2.5-6.0)

> >

> > Current symptoms are: fatigue, low energy, moods changing from deep

> > depression to anxiety with palpitations very irritable and sesitive to

> > " I don't care " , sometimes almost OK but then in same day can become

> > weak, shaky and dizzy. Memory and cognitive skills in very poor shape

> > (think I'm going nuts). Waking temp is 97.3 resting pulse around 65.

You sound pretty hypothyroid to me. Glad you are on HC. That must be

helping, but maybe you need to stress dose if extra activity causes

the shakiness etc.

Burning feet is a hypothyroid symptom. My feet burn and I have never

had a sugar problem. Are you on a program to raise thyroid dose? That

isn't very much.

Dorothy

[Guest guest]

Thanks Bill

Very interesting. The symptoms are exactly what I am experiencing.

Worse in the afternoon and evening. It is now running up my legs to

just below my knees this evening. Am on Twinlab B50 Caps which has 50

mg of B12 but reading on one of the sites it says that it could be

tied up with hypothyroidism.

Doctor back from holiday this week so will try to get him to up my

dose of thyroid.

Cheers

Jane

> >

> >Thanks Leisa

> >Maybe I should just stop it for a while.

> >It's hard to know what is doing what really.

> >One thing that is really persistant at the moment is a weird

feeling in my feet that is a burning feeling but they are actually

cold to touch most of the time.

> >Anyone got any ideas on that?

>

>

> B12 deficiency?

>

>

>

> http://www.google.com/search?q=b12+paresthesia+burning

>

>

>

>

>

> ---

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dorothy

Thanks for that.

Yes I am thinking the thyroid dose is low too and should have been

raised a couple of weeks ago (doc is having me do bloods every three

weeks) but doc is on summer vacation (NZ) so I just have to suffer and

wait. Had TSH T4 and T3 bloods done on 2nd of Jan but don't know

results yet.

Doc back this week so will try to get things moving again.

HC wise; yes I think you're right that the shaky light headedness is

low HC as it usually comes on at the end of the 4 hour space between

doses and resolves ounce the dose takes effect. Am really paranoid of

taking more than is needed and often need 30 mg per day that is 10mg

am and 5 every 4 hours thereafter, last dose at bed time. Scared to go

over this. Seem to need more now that I am taking the thyroid than before.

Sugar wise I am very carefull about what I eat and am gluten free and

low sugar. In the past I have really suffered from hypoglycemia but

this has improved hugely since starting the HC about a year ago.

Thanks for your input

Cheers

Jane

>

> You sound pretty hypothyroid to me. Glad you are on HC. That must be

> helping, but maybe you need to stress dose if extra activity causes

> the shakiness etc.

>

> Burning feet is a hypothyroid symptom. My feet burn and I have never

> had a sugar problem. Are you on a program to raise thyroid dose? That

> isn't very much.

>

> Dorothy

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Leisa

I will look into the homeopathic dhea as a very good friend is a

homeopath (and recently become very interested in hypothyroidism) and

was suggesting she maybe be able to offer me something.

I too have always been a little sceptical about homeopathy as I have

never been able to understand how it could possibly work. But am

definatly prepared to give it a go.

Will let you know what she recommends if you like?

Cheers

Jane

> >

> >

> > From: Jane <jcodlin@>

> > Subject: Diagnose me please? Test results

> > To: RT3_T3

> > Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 10:26 PM

> >

> >

> > Hi Val

> >

> > I hope you don't mind helping me interpret my results.

> > I have been lurking in the background for some time now trying to get

> > my head around everything. Had some tests done in December. But first

> > a quick overview. I am 49 not overweight (BMI 21). History of (20+

> > years) fatigue, depression, anxiety, IBS, poor sleep, coldness, tan

> > very easily, frequent unexplained lower back and neck/shoulder pain,

> > all hair fell out as a young child due to stress.

> >

> > Meds:

> >

> > 25-30mg HC in 4-5 doses 10,5,5,5,5 (4 hourly)

> > 45mg SR Whole Thyroid. Started on 30mg but have been on current dose

> > for 5 weeks.

> > Progesterone 200mg capsule at night and 16mg in oil on skin in

> > morning, though just learning that this could be causing the high

> > estrogen showing in my test results. So am currently cutting back to

> > 20mg of oil only.

> > Melatonin 1mg

> > DHEA 7 Keto as doc concerned that normal DHEA maybe causing high

> estrogen

> > DIM 100mg twice a day (to lower estrogen)

> > Zopiclone 7.5mg (for sleep)

> >

> > Test results:

> >

> > Following saliva tests were done while I was on 15 mg of HC

> >

> > Estrone E1 (12%) 25.1*high (9.6-20.0)

> > Estradiol E2 (44.9%) 93.9 (no range given, doc says -should be 18)

> > Estriol E3 (43.1%) 90.3*high (15.0-29.0)

> > E3/[E2+E1] Ratio 0.76*low (>1.00)

> > Progesterone P4 >15999 (no range given)

> > P4/E2 Ratio 170.4 (no range given)

> > Testosterone 410.0*high (25.0-190.0)

> > Cortisol Morning 22.3 (6.00-42.00)

> > Cortisol Afternoon 18.10*high (2.00-15.00)

> > Cortisol Midnight <2.80 (1.00-8.00)

> > DHEAS 2.6 (2.5-25.0) (was on 15mg DHEA when this test was done)

> > Melatonin Midnight 42*high (10-40)

> >

> > Following are Thyroid bloods. First are before Thyroid meds and second

> > set is after 3 weeks on 30mg Whole Thyroid. Don't have results yet

> > from recent test as doc on summer vacation.

> >

> > TSH – no meds 0.69 with meds 0.72 (0.4-4.0)

> > Free T4 – no meds 13.5 with meds 12.8 (9.0-19.0)

> > Free T3 – no meds 3.7 with meds 3.9 (2.5-6.0)

> >

> > Current symptoms are: fatigue, low energy, moods changing from deep

> > depression to anxiety with palpitations very irritable and sesitive to

> > " I don't care " , sometimes almost OK but then in same day can become

> > weak, shaky and dizzy. Memory and cognitive skills in very poor shape

> > (think I'm going nuts). Waking temp is 97.3 resting pulse around 65.

> >

> > Sorry there is a lot to digest.

> > Really looking forward to your thoughts.

> >

> > Cheers

> > Jane

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

--- At 09:51 PM 1/16/2009, Jane wrote:

>

>Thanks Bill

>Very interesting. The symptoms are exactly what I am experiencing. Worse in

the afternoon and evening. It is now running up my legs to just below my knees

this evening. Am on Twinlab B50 Caps which has 50 mg of B12 but reading on one

of the sites it says that it could be tied up with hypothyroidism. ...

" Measuring homocysteine and methylmalonic acid levels

can detect vitamin B-12 deficiency more accurately than

the serum test ... "

Hypothyroid and B-12

Schor ND FABNO

denvernaturopathic.com

September 8, 2008

An article published in May 2008 is making me rethink how I

treat hypothyroid patients and how I diagnose vitamin B-12

deficiency.

Jabbar et al at the Aga Khan University in Karachi, Pakistan,

( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403 )

reported that vitamin B-12 deficiency is both very common

among people who are hypothyroid and may not display any of

the hallmark symptoms or signs we were taught to expect.

The researchers evaluated 116 hypothyroid patients at their

clinic for vitamin B-12 deficiency using the standard blood

serum test. Forty-six of the patients had low vitamin B-12

levels; that's 39.6% of them! Yet without the blood test for

B-12 levels it was hard to pick them out. The classic signs

and symptoms we expect to see with B-12 deficiency were poor

help in identifying affected individuals. " Generalized

weakness, impaired memory, depression, numbness and decreased

reflexes were more frequently noted in B12 deficient patients,

but failed to achieve statistical significance when compared

with B12 sufficient patients. "

That makes sense because all the same symptoms except for the

numbness are common symptoms of hypothyroid disease.

Mean corpuscular volume (MCV), the measure of volume of

individual blood cells, a number that we have always

considered a prime indicator of B-12 deficiency, did not

differ between groups. Nor were the B-12 deficient patients

more likely to be anemic.

The presence of thyroid antibodies did not prove to be an

indicator of B-12 deficiency risk. In the past we thought

having elevated thyroid antibodies increased the risk of

having atrophic gastritis, an autoimmune condition that

decreases absorption of B-12. In this study, about an equal

percentage of patients with positive antibodies were B-12

deficient (43.2%) compared to those with negative antibodies

(38.9%).

When the B-12 deficient patients were given monthly doses of

vitamin B-12 by injection, almost 60% reported improvement.

Now here's the interesting piece. Of the 116 people in the

study, 21 complained of symptoms that sounded like B12

deficiency but their lab test came back normal. They were also

given vitamin B-12 injections and 40% of them responded

positively. The authors explain this improvement as a placebo

response.

Our experience suggests that this may not be a placebo

response. There are a percentage of people who appear to

appreciate having higher serum levels of B-12 and feel better

with supplemental doses even though their serum B-12 levels

are in the normal range.

Measuring homocysteine and methylmalonic acid levels can

detect vitamin B-12 deficiency more accurately than the serum

test used in this study. These tests are functional in nature

and will detect deficiency earlier than serum testing will.

Unfortunately these tests are more expensive than the serum

test and are rarely used.

The important number seems to be 40%.

Of hypothyroid patients, 40% will test low in B-12 and should

be supplemented. Of patients who don't test low but still

complain of fatigue, poor memory, numbness or other symptoms

associated with B-12 deficiency, 40% of them will also feel

better with vitamin B-12.

Vitamin B-12 deficiency can cause non-reversible neurological

damage. We do not want to miss diagnosing this deficiency.

We need to be extra vigilant in hypothyroid patients as it's

easy to explain the symptoms caused by B-12 deficiency as

symptoms of hypothyroidism.

Every patient being treated for hypothyroidism should be

tested for vitamin B-12 deficiency. If serum B-12 levels are

in the normal range, but the patient still complains of

symptoms, consider measuring methylmalonic acid and

homocysteine to be sure. Or do as these researchers did; try

a clinical trial of supplemental vitamin B-12 and see if the

patient feels better.

Jabbar A, et al. Vitamin B12 deficiency common in primary

hypothyroidism. J Pak Med Assoc. 2008 May;58(5):258-61.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

---

[Guest guest]

Back in August my homocysteine was 8 (5-15)and my serum B12 was 495

(170-800)so probably not the problem I guess. Don't know about the

methylmalonic.

That weird feeling is now in my hands as well!

9pm evening.

Could it be that the morning 45mg thyroid med has worn off?

> >

> >Thanks Bill

> >Very interesting. The symptoms are exactly what I am experiencing.

Worse in the afternoon and evening. It is now running up my legs to

just below my knees this evening. Am on Twinlab B50 Caps which has 50

mg of B12 but reading on one of the sites it says that it could be

tied up with hypothyroidism. ...

>

>

> " Measuring homocysteine and methylmalonic acid levels

> can detect vitamin B-12 deficiency more accurately than

> the serum test ... "

>

>

> Hypothyroid and B-12

>

> Schor ND FABNO

> denvernaturopathic.com

> September 8, 2008

>

> An article published in May 2008 is making me rethink how I

> treat hypothyroid patients and how I diagnose vitamin B-12

> deficiency.

>

> Jabbar et al at the Aga Khan University in Karachi, Pakistan,

> ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403 )

> reported that vitamin B-12 deficiency is both very common

> among people who are hypothyroid and may not display any of

> the hallmark symptoms or signs we were taught to expect.

>

> The researchers evaluated 116 hypothyroid patients at their

> clinic for vitamin B-12 deficiency using the standard blood

> serum test. Forty-six of the patients had low vitamin B-12

> levels; that's 39.6% of them! Yet without the blood test for

> B-12 levels it was hard to pick them out. The classic signs

> and symptoms we expect to see with B-12 deficiency were poor

> help in identifying affected individuals. " Generalized

> weakness, impaired memory, depression, numbness and decreased

> reflexes were more frequently noted in B12 deficient patients,

> but failed to achieve statistical significance when compared

> with B12 sufficient patients. "

>

> That makes sense because all the same symptoms except for the

> numbness are common symptoms of hypothyroid disease.

>

> Mean corpuscular volume (MCV), the measure of volume of

> individual blood cells, a number that we have always

> considered a prime indicator of B-12 deficiency, did not

> differ between groups. Nor were the B-12 deficient patients

> more likely to be anemic.

>

> The presence of thyroid antibodies did not prove to be an

> indicator of B-12 deficiency risk. In the past we thought

> having elevated thyroid antibodies increased the risk of

> having atrophic gastritis, an autoimmune condition that

> decreases absorption of B-12. In this study, about an equal

> percentage of patients with positive antibodies were B-12

> deficient (43.2%) compared to those with negative antibodies

> (38.9%).

>

> When the B-12 deficient patients were given monthly doses of

> vitamin B-12 by injection, almost 60% reported improvement.

>

> Now here's the interesting piece. Of the 116 people in the

> study, 21 complained of symptoms that sounded like B12

> deficiency but their lab test came back normal. They were also

> given vitamin B-12 injections and 40% of them responded

> positively. The authors explain this improvement as a placebo

> response.

>

> Our experience suggests that this may not be a placebo

> response. There are a percentage of people who appear to

> appreciate having higher serum levels of B-12 and feel better

> with supplemental doses even though their serum B-12 levels

> are in the normal range.

>

> Measuring homocysteine and methylmalonic acid levels can

> detect vitamin B-12 deficiency more accurately than the serum

> test used in this study. These tests are functional in nature

> and will detect deficiency earlier than serum testing will.

> Unfortunately these tests are more expensive than the serum

> test and are rarely used.

>

> The important number seems to be 40%.

>

> Of hypothyroid patients, 40% will test low in B-12 and should

> be supplemented. Of patients who don't test low but still

> complain of fatigue, poor memory, numbness or other symptoms

> associated with B-12 deficiency, 40% of them will also feel

> better with vitamin B-12.

>

> Vitamin B-12 deficiency can cause non-reversible neurological

> damage. We do not want to miss diagnosing this deficiency.

> We need to be extra vigilant in hypothyroid patients as it's

> easy to explain the symptoms caused by B-12 deficiency as

> symptoms of hypothyroidism.

>

> Every patient being treated for hypothyroidism should be

> tested for vitamin B-12 deficiency. If serum B-12 levels are

> in the normal range, but the patient still complains of

> symptoms, consider measuring methylmalonic acid and

> homocysteine to be sure. Or do as these researchers did; try

> a clinical trial of supplemental vitamin B-12 and see if the

> patient feels better.

>

>

> Jabbar A, et al. Vitamin B12 deficiency common in primary

> hypothyroidism. J Pak Med Assoc. 2008 May;58(5):258-61.

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jane,

I have had burning feet (Peripheral neuropathy) for over 20 years,

tried everything, My doctor has given me B12 injections, I am on a

low carb diet, I am not diabetic yet... To get diabetic neuoropathy

usually takes years of mis-managed Diabetes to develop. Hopefully you

can find a cure for it, if you take care of it right away. there are

several causes, including heraditary neuropathy, that I was diagnosed

with. My father couldn't feel his legs past his knees!

I wish you luck!

Jon

> > >

> > >Thanks Leisa

> > >Maybe I should just stop it for a while.

> > >It's hard to know what is doing what really.

> > >One thing that is really persistant at the moment is a weird

> feeling in my feet that is a burning feeling but they are actually

> cold to touch most of the time.

> > >Anyone got any ideas on that?

> >

> >

> > B12 deficiency?

> >

> >

> >

> > http://www.google.com/search?q=b12+paresthesia+burning

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---

> >

>

[Guest guest]

http://millercenter.uchicago.edu/learnaboutpn/aboutpn/symptoms/

> > > >

> > > >Thanks Leisa

> > > >Maybe I should just stop it for a while.

> > > >It's hard to know what is doing what really.

> > > >One thing that is really persistant at the moment is a weird

> > feeling in my feet that is a burning feeling but they are actually

> > cold to touch most of the time.

> > > >Anyone got any ideas on that?

> > >

> > >

> > > B12 deficiency?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > http://www.google.com/search?q=b12+paresthesia+burning

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ---

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>>To get diabetic neuoropathy

usually takes years of mis-managed Diabetes to develop.<<

Oh no.. I wasn;t even diagnosed with Diabetes when I got my first neuropathy.

but regulating my glucose and Benfotiamine did reverse mine where as if I had it

for years it might not reverse it. Diabetic damage happens a lto sooner than

peole are led to believe.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

thanks jane

Subject: Re: Diagnose me please? Test resultsTo: RT3_T3 Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 11:27 PM

Hi Leisa I will look into the homeopathic dhea as a very good friend is ahomeopath (and recently become very interested in hypothyroidism) andwas suggesting she maybe be able to offer me something. I too have always been a little sceptical about homeopathy as I havenever been able to understand how it could possibly work. But amdefinatly prepared to give it a go. Will let you know what she recommends if you like?CheersJane> > > > > > From: Jane <jcodlin@>> > Subject: Diagnose me please? Test results> > To: RT3_T3 > > Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 10:26 PM> > > > > > Hi Val> > > > I hope you

don't mind helping me interpret my results.> > I have been lurking in the background for some time now trying to get> > my head around everything. Had some tests done in December. But first> > a quick overview. I am 49 not overweight (BMI 21). History of (20+> > years) fatigue, depression, anxiety, IBS, poor sleep, coldness, tan> > very easily, frequent unexplained lower back and neck/shoulder pain,> > all hair fell out as a young child due to stress. > > > > Meds:> > > > 25-30mg HC in 4-5 doses 10,5,5,5,5 (4 hourly)> > 45mg SR Whole Thyroid. Started on 30mg but have been on current dose> > for 5 weeks.> > Progesterone 200mg capsule at night and 16mg in oil on skin in> > morning, though just learning that this could be causing the high> > estrogen showing in my test results. So am currently cutting back

to> > 20mg of oil only.> > Melatonin 1mg > > DHEA 7 Keto as doc concerned that normal DHEA maybe causing high> estrogen> > DIM 100mg twice a day (to lower estrogen)> > Zopiclone 7.5mg (for sleep)> > > > Test results:> > > > Following saliva tests were done while I was on 15 mg of HC> > > > Estrone E1 (12%) 25.1*high (9.6-20.0)> > Estradiol E2 (44.9%) 93.9 (no range given, doc says -should be 18)> > Estriol E3 (43.1%) 90.3*high (15.0-29.0)> > E3/[E2+E1] Ratio 0.76*low (>1.00)> > Progesterone P4 >15999 (no range given)> > P4/E2 Ratio 170.4 (no range given)> > Testosterone 410.0*high (25.0-190.0)> > Cortisol Morning 22.3 (6.00-42.00)> > Cortisol Afternoon 18.10*high (2.00-15.00)> > Cortisol Midnight <2.80 (1.00-8.00)> > DHEAS 2.6

(2.5-25.0) (was on 15mg DHEA when this test was done)> > Melatonin Midnight 42*high (10-40)> > > > Following are Thyroid bloods. First are before Thyroid meds and second> > set is after 3 weeks on 30mg Whole Thyroid. Don't have results yet> > from recent test as doc on summer vacation.> > > > TSH – no meds 0.69 with meds 0.72 (0.4-4.0)> > Free T4 – no meds 13.5 with meds 12.8 (9.0-19.0)> > Free T3 – no meds 3.7 with meds 3.9 (2.5-6.0)> > > > Current symptoms are: fatigue, low energy, moods changing from deep> > depression to anxiety with palpitations very irritable and sesitive to> > "I don't care", sometimes almost OK but then in same day can become> > weak, shaky and dizzy. Memory and cognitive skills in very poor shape> > (think I'm going nuts). Waking temp is 97.3 resting pulse around 65.

> > > > Sorry there is a lot to digest.> > Really looking forward to your thoughts.> > > > Cheers> > Jane> > > > > > ------------------------------------> > > >

[Guest guest]

Bill, it doesn't say what the relation is between homocysteine & B12

deficiency. Is is high homocysteine or low?

I'm asking because my husband's homocysteine is quite a bit higher

than mine (although within " range " ), and he has quite a few symptoms

of B12 deficiency, but B12 looks fine on his blood test.

[Guest guest]

>....................... Am really paranoid of

> taking more than is needed and often need 30 mg per day that is 10mg

> am and 5 every 4 hours thereafter, last dose at bed time. Scared to go

> over this.

I found at times that I needed to take HC every 2 or 3 hrs. If you are

getting low cort symptoms then you must be low, you need it and taking

HC will only help. You won't be going too high because the base level

you are adding to is low. I do 10 at 6AM, and another 10 at 8 because

I am feeling a bit dizzy and queasy stomach. Then I can do with only

5mg at noon, mid afternoon and less in evening.

Dorothy

[Guest guest]

I have recently been given 20 mg hc a day...10,5,5 is how it was to be dosed. I have found that I really need the 10 at noon thought, so I changed the dosing 5,10,5...and now find the am too low cortisol.

Two things,,,first, I really felt the Isocort worked better..and was stronger for me. Does anyone have thoughts on that? or Maybe I was taking a higher dose of Isocort..

Also, I wonder if I should add either some isocort to my morning dose..or make the afternoon dose all iscort..to take the 10,10,isocort doseing.

anyone know why Im still having the swollen puffy headache feel?low cortisol or low thyroid? Im on 37.5 t3

Subject: Re: Diagnose me please? Test resultsTo: RT3_T3 Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 10:17 AM

>....................... Am really paranoid of> taking more than is needed and often need 30 mg per day that is 10mg> am and 5 every 4 hours thereafter, last dose at bed time. Scared to go> over this.I found at times that I needed to take HC every 2 or 3 hrs. If you aregetting low cort symptoms then you must be low, you need it and takingHC will only help. You won't be going too high because the base levelyou are adding to is low. I do 10 at 6AM, and another 10 at 8 becauseI am feeling a bit dizzy and queasy stomach. Then I can do with only5mg at noon, mid afternoon and less in evening.Dorothy------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi Leisa-

I don’t know the answer to the

question you pose in this message but wanted to answer a previous one. You

mentioned that the hydrocortisone you’re taking is “Glades”

which I’ve read (probably in another group) isn’t as strong as some

of the others. I take one with a “V” on it, which seems to work

pretty well. I think Cortef probably is best but is expensive. A friend of mine

was taking Glades then switched to Cortef which works much better for her.

Dana

From: RT3_T3 [mailto:RT3_T3 ] On Behalf Of Leisa Forman

I have recently been given 20 mg hc a

day...10,5,5 is how it was to be dosed. I have found that I really need the

10 at noon thought, so I changed the dosing 5,10,5...and now find the am too

low cortisol.

Two things,,,first, I really felt the Isocort worked

better..and was stronger for me. Does anyone have thoughts on that? or Maybe

I was taking a higher dose of Isocort..

Also, I wonder if I should add either some isocort

to my morning dose..or make the afternoon dose all iscort..to take the

10,10,isocort doseing.

__

[Guest guest]

YES, i DID READ THAT. iD RATHER NOT PAY SO MUCH MORE FOR THE CORTEF...BUT i WAS THINKING OF NEXT REFILL ASKING FOR THE OTHER GENERIC...IF THERE IS ONE. iM ASSUMING THE ONE WITH THE V ON IT IS GENERIC?

Subject: RE: Re: Diagnose me please? Test resultsTo: RT3_T3 Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 11:02 AM

Hi Leisa-

I don’t know the answer to the question you pose in this message but wanted to answer a previous one. You mentioned that the hydrocortisone you’re taking is “Glades” which I’ve read (probably in another group) isn’t as strong as some of the others. I take one with a “V” on it, which seems to work pretty well. I think Cortef probably is best but is expensive. A friend of mine was taking Glades then switched to Cortef which works much better for her.

Dana

From: RT3_T3 [mailto: RT3_T3 ] On Behalf Of Leisa Forman

I have recently been given 20 mg hc a day...10,5,5 is how it was to be dosed. I have found that I really need the 10 at noon thought, so I changed the dosing 5,10,5...and now find the am too low cortisol.

Two things,,,first, I really felt the Isocort worked better..and was stronger for me. Does anyone have thoughts on that? or Maybe I was taking a higher dose of Isocort..

Also, I wonder if I should add either some isocort to my morning dose..or make the afternoon dose all iscort..to take the 10,10,isocort doseing.

__

[Guest guest]

Yes. The one with the “V” is generic. I

haven’t compared it with Cortef (in terms of effects), though. I’m taking 35 –

40 mg per day. Hard to say, but I might be able to take less with Cortef.

Anyway, this is working OK and my copay is much less.

Dana

From: RT3_T3 [mailto:RT3_T3 ] On Behalf Of Leisa Forman

YES, i DID READ

THAT. iD RATHER NOT PAY SO MUCH MORE FOR THE CORTEF...BUT i WAS THINKING OF

NEXT REFILL ASKING FOR THE OTHER GENERIC...IF THERE IS ONE. iM ASSUMING THE

ONE WITH THE V ON IT IS GENERIC?

__

[Guest guest]

Wiht that ow a dose of T3 and that low a dose of HC BOTH are probably cuasing tyour symotrms.

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

If I choose to raise another 12.5 t3...where should it go? like this maybe

t3...25,12.5,12.5....and then should I do either

hc.. 10,10,5...(to add an extra 5)or

hc.. 5 plus 3 isocort, 10,5

Subject: Re: Re: Diagnose me please? Test resultsTo: RT3_T3 Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 11:43 AM

Wiht that ow a dose of T3 and that low a dose of HC BOTH are probably cuasing tyour symotrms.

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

Your T3 plan is fine but asd the extra HC where you feel low.

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/