Re: spinal tap-Yvette

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone. Thanks for your input, I really do appreciate it.

I'm not so much worried about the pain of a spinal tap. I'm more

concerned with the possibility of complications. I had problems with

numbness in both legs after having an epidural during the delivery of

two of my children. (I have 4 kids, had 2 with the epidural and 2

without any meds at all)...

I'm already having problems with my CNS,...is it really such a great

idea to stick a needle in my spine - the hub of the CNS

I've had several MRIs over the last 6 years. The very first one was

pretty much conclusive, I think. The neuro told me " you probably have

MS, but we can't give you a definite dx until you have another attack "

But, that was a different doctor and no one has asked for the records

from that MRI. The following MRIs I was told were " nonspecific abnormal "

but I didn't get to see the actual pics... I saw the first one. The

neuro sat down with me and showed me what I was seeing, and how it

different from " normal "

One of my questions regarding the spinal tap is this: I asked my

neurologist what *else* it could be, other than MS. His answer was that

with the symptoms I'm having and the length of time I've had them and

the recent eye involvement, it couldn't be anything else.

If it can't be anything else, then what's the point of the spinal tap?

I dont' know that I really expect an answer (but if you have one, I'd

love to hear it) I think I more ranting and processing than anything else.

I really appreciate this list. I've learned a lot from you guys.

Thanks,

Yvette

[Guest guest]

Hi Yvette,

In todays world of so much chronic illness that doctors do not

understand, diagnosis is the only thing they can give you. Its like the

big prize. The only problem is that once they give you the prize, you

lose cause they really can then only offer dangerous, sometimes life

threatening drugs. The real problem then lies in the fact that it could

be a wrong diagnosis, the drugs could make you more sick and you will

continue to do the things that might have got you sick in the first place.

You see when we trust in a drug to cure us, then we don't take

responsibility for our own lives. We are leaving our very own precisous

lives in the hands of some doctor who really does not know how to help us.

So Yvette, you and everyone else has to decide what does a diagnosis

mean to you, what will you do with it? For me I did not want to get to

the final diagnosis and hear those words " you have MS " . If I had heard

them then I would of had to own them. Instead I went in my own denial

and started to research everything I could on the immune system. It took

years to get to the right answers, but I did and now I am well.

The cause of my MS symptoms, Lyme disease, candida, leaky gut, metal

toxicity. No MS drug will deal with any of those issues at all. Had I

decided to stick with my doctors I most likely would be very sick today

and probably not walking, glad I made the choice I did.

Yvette Deluca wrote:

>

>If it can't be anything else, then what's the point of the spinal tap?

>

>I dont' know that I really expect an answer (but if you have one, I'd

>love to hear it) I think I more ranting and processing than anything else.

>

>I really appreciate this list. I've learned a lot from you guys.

>

>Thanks,

>

>Yvette

>

>

>

>L

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

Yvette

I've posted this link before. I don't remember anyone commenting

on it. So no one has read it or everyone agrees with the

information there, or or or or. (-)

Anyway this is what they have on spinal tap:

====================================================================

Spinal Tap

A spinal tap (also known as a lumbar puncture) is a procedure

whereby a sample of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) is taken from close to

the spinal cord. At the same time a blood sample is taken usually

from the arm and a quantity of blood serum is isolated. Both of

these samples are then processed using a technique called

electrophoresis. A positive spinal tap will produce oligoclonal

bands in the CSF but not in the blood serum. These bands indicate a

type of immune system activity. Although uncomfortable, the spinal

tap itself is often not too painful, whereas in the period following

the tap, the patient may experience dizziness, nausea, vomiting and

severe headaches, occasionally for as much as a week. There are a

few rare but serious side-effects of spinal taps. For more

information about spinal taps and how to reduce the possibility of

some of the more unpleasant side-effects follow this link: Spinal

Tap.

95% of people with a definite diagnosis of MS exhibit oligoclonal

bands on a spinal tap. This may sound impressive but so do 90% of

people with Sub-Acute Sclerosing Panencephalitis and 100% of people

with Herpes Simplex Encephalitis among other conditions. Positive

spinal taps are indicative of an immunological response but they are

not diagnostic for a particular condition. That 5% of PwMS do not

exhibit oligoclonal banding means that spinal taps neither rule-in

nor rule-out MS.

The primary purpose of CSF analysis should be to rule out other

conditions than multiple sclerosis. Although they can be highly

suggestive of MS, they do not, in themselves, provide definitive

disgnosis. Indeed, I myself, was given a definite diagnosis based on

medical history, clinical examination, MRI and evoked potential

tests - I declined to have a spinal tap.

Before MRI, electrophoresis of spinal fluid played a major role in

supporting diagnoses and underpinned the Poser criteria. Now,

however, these criteria have become overshadowed by MRI and, if an

MRI is positive, the new diagnostic criteria (2001) allow for a

definitive diagnosis without laboratory support. The old " Laboratory

supported Definite MS " has been dispensed with.

However, CSF analysis technology is still advancing and researchers

continue to look for definitive molecular markers of MS. Should they

find such a marker, spinal taps will reassume their importance.

Other researchers are looking into urine and blood for markers and

we can hope that they are successful and spinal taps become

completely unnecessary to the diagnosis of multiple sclerosis.

http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/diagnosingms.html

===============================================================

> Hi everyone. Thanks for your input, I really do appreciate it.

>

> I'm not so much worried about the pain of a spinal tap. I'm more

> concerned with the possibility of complications. I had problems

with

> numbness in both legs after...

[Guest guest]

,

You really have it altogether. That just might be the most realistic and

enlightening post I have seen in a number of years. Good for you....and all

who want to do what is best for themselves.

Regards,

Tom

Re: Re: spinal tap-Yvette

Hi Yvette,

In todays world of so much chronic illness that doctors do not

understand, diagnosis is the only thing they can give you. Its like the

big prize. The only problem is that once they give you the prize, you

lose cause they really can then only offer dangerous, sometimes life

threatening drugs. The real problem then lies in the fact that it could

be a wrong diagnosis, the drugs could make you more sick and you will

continue to do the things that might have got you sick in the first place.

You see when we trust in a drug to cure us, then we don't take

responsibility for our own lives. We are leaving our very own precisous

lives in the hands of some doctor who really does not know how to help us.

So Yvette, you and everyone else has to decide what does a diagnosis

mean to you, what will you do with it? For me I did not want to get to

the final diagnosis and hear those words " you have MS " . If I had heard

them then I would of had to own them. Instead I went in my own denial

and started to research everything I could on the immune system. It took

years to get to the right answers, but I did and now I am well.

The cause of my MS symptoms, Lyme disease, candida, leaky gut, metal

toxicity. No MS drug will deal with any of those issues at all. Had I

decided to stick with my doctors I most likely would be very sick today

and probably not walking, glad I made the choice I did.

Yvette Deluca wrote:

>

>If it can't be anything else, then what's the point of the spinal tap?

>

>I dont' know that I really expect an answer (but if you have one, I'd

>love to hear it) I think I more ranting and processing than anything else.

>

>I really appreciate this list. I've learned a lot from you guys.

>

>Thanks,

>

>Yvette

>

>

>

>L

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Yvette, I can't say this enough , don't get the spinal tap. They

are also not conclusive but they tell you it is 100% accurate until

yours shows nothing and then they will say " well, 99%. It is a very

invasive procedure which can cause prolonged headaches for the rest

of your life and actually create an exacerbation. There is no

purpose for you having the procedure. So, you probably have

according to this doctor. I never got a tap done and Dr. Neiper who

was the true " ms specialist and genius " was definitely against them.

That fluid is there for reasons we don't even know about yet. Your

CNS has been through enough. Nurture it and love it and quit wasting

your money at the doctors for things that will just frustrate you

and not help you reverse your ms. Write me and I'll give you my

protocol. Best, Kathy

> Re: Re: spinal tap-Yvette

>

>

> Hi everyone. Thanks for your input, I really do appreciate it.

I may be misunderstanding this, but it seems as though you have been

advised to have this, spinal tap, done..?? All of my times to

both neurologists I have seen, the only test was an MRI...and there

was NO doubt in any of these doctors' minds, that I definitely do

have, MS. It's like, I was expecting to have the seconed opinion

to at least be somewhat different, but NO. At first I was upset,

but after learning about all of these people who had to keep getting

tests done to get a definative dx, it made me feel relieved...if

that makes any sense?!

>

> I'm not so much worried about the pain of a spinal tap. I'm more

> concerned with the possibility of complications. I had problems

with

> numbness in both legs after having an epidural during the

delivery of

> two of my children. (I have 4 kids, had 2 with the epidural and

2

> without any meds at all)...

>

> I'm already having problems with my CNS,...is it really such a

great

> idea to stick a needle in my spine - the hub of the CNS

>

> I've had several MRIs over the last 6 years. The very first one

was

> pretty much conclusive, I think. The neuro told me " you probably

have

> MS, but we can't give you a definite dx until you have another

attack "

> But, that was a different doctor and no one has asked for the

records

> from that MRI. The following MRIs I was told were " nonspecific

abnormal "

> but I didn't get to see the actual pics... I saw the first one.

The

> neuro sat down with me and showed me what I was seeing, and how

it

> different from " normal "

>

> One of my questions regarding the spinal tap is this: I asked my

> neurologist what *else* it could be, other than MS. His answer

was that

> with the symptoms I'm having and the length of time I've had

them and

> the recent eye involvement, it couldn't be anything else.

>

> If it can't be anything else, then what's the point of the

spinal tap?

>

> I dont' know that I really expect an answer (but if you have

one, I'd

> love to hear it) I think I more ranting and processing than

anything else.

>

> I really appreciate this list. I've learned a lot from you guys.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Yvette

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> Yvette

>

> I've posted this link before. I don't remember anyone commenting

> on it. So no one has read it or everyone agrees with the

> information there, or or or or. (-)

>

> Anyway this is what they have on spinal tap:

>

>

====================================================================

>

> Spinal Tap

>

> A spinal tap (also known as a lumbar puncture) is a procedure

> whereby a sample of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) is taken from close

to

> the spinal cord. At the same time a blood sample is taken...

[Guest guest]

Yvette, I can't say this enough , don't get the spinal tap. They are also not

conclusive but they tell you it is 100% accurate until yours shows nothing and

then they will say " well, 99%. It is a very invasive procedure which can cause

prolonged headaches for the rest of your life and actually create an

exacerbation. There is no purpose for you having the procedure. So, you probably

have according to this doctor. I never got a tap done and Dr. Neiper who was the

true " ms specialist and genius " was definitely against them. That fluid is there

for reasons we don't even know about yet. Your CNS has been through enough.

Nurture it and love it and quit wasting your money at the doctors for things

that will just frustrate you and not help you reverse your ms. Write me and I'll

give you my protocol. Best, Kathy

Re: Re: spinal tap-Yvette

Hi everyone. Thanks for your input, I really do appreciate it.

I'm not so much worried about the pain of a spinal tap. I'm more

concerned with the possibility of complications. I had problems with

numbness in both legs after having an epidural during the delivery of

two of my children. (I have 4 kids, had 2 with the epidural and 2

without any meds at all)...

I'm already having problems with my CNS,...is it really such a great

idea to stick a needle in my spine - the hub of the CNS

I've had several MRIs over the last 6 years. The very first one was

pretty much conclusive, I think. The neuro told me " you probably have

MS, but we can't give you a definite dx until you have another attack "

But, that was a different doctor and no one has asked for the records

from that MRI. The following MRIs I was told were " nonspecific abnormal "

but I didn't get to see the actual pics... I saw the first one. The

neuro sat down with me and showed me what I was seeing, and how it

different from " normal "

One of my questions regarding the spinal tap is this: I asked my

neurologist what *else* it could be, other than MS. His answer was that

with the symptoms I'm having and the length of time I've had them and

the recent eye involvement, it couldn't be anything else.

If it can't be anything else, then what's the point of the spinal tap?

I dont' know that I really expect an answer (but if you have one, I'd

love to hear it) I think I more ranting and processing than anything else.

I really appreciate this list. I've learned a lot from you guys.

Thanks,

Yvette

[Guest guest]

I AM ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAS TO KNOW & WHEN THEY TOLD ME IT WAS MS OR A

BRAIN TUNOR & THE ONLY WAY FOR A DEFFINENY DAIAGNOSES I WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A

SINAL TAY I AGREED TO THE PROCEEDURE. IT WAS VERY PAINFUL BUT AFTER IT WAS

OVER, THEY TOLD ME I HAD MS.

Yvette Deluca wrote: Hi everyone. Thanks for your

input, I really do appreciate it.

I'm not so much worried about the pain of a spinal tap. I'm more

concerned with the possibility of complications. I had problems with

numbness in both legs after having an epidural during the delivery of

two of my children. (I have 4 kids, had 2 with the epidural and 2

without any meds at all)...

I'm already having problems with my CNS,...is it really such a great

idea to stick a needle in my spine - the hub of the CNS

I've had several MRIs over the last 6 years. The very first one was

pretty much conclusive, I think. The neuro told me " you probably have

MS, but we can't give you a definite dx until you have another attack "

But, that was a different doctor and no one has asked for the records

from that MRI. The following MRIs I was told were " nonspecific abnormal "

but I didn't get to see the actual pics... I saw the first one. The

neuro sat down with me and showed me what I was seeing, and how it

different from " normal "

One of my questions regarding the spinal tap is this: I asked my

neurologist what *else* it could be, other than MS. His answer was that

with the symptoms I'm having and the length of time I've had them and

the recent eye involvement, it couldn't be anything else.

If it can't be anything else, then what's the point of the spinal tap?

I dont' know that I really expect an answer (but if you have one, I'd

love to hear it) I think I more ranting and processing than anything else.

I really appreciate this list. I've learned a lot from you guys.

Thanks,

Yvette

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

Thank you very much Tom for the nice words. Its so much easier to see

clearly when already through the forest, if you know what I mean. Its

only been with much education from englightend doctors and seeing what

so many people have had to go through that I have come to this

conclusion. I ask myself every day why did I make the right choice? Then

my sister showed me a letter she found that I had written her many

years ago when I was around 16 years old. She was at camp and I was home

and I was telling her of my experience with a doctor trying to diagnose

a growth on my hand. I was so frustrated because they did not have a

clue and sent me home without any answers. My dislike and distrust in

doctors back then was quite obvious by my words in the letter. I always

thought it was my more recent experiences that had soured me toward

doctors but I guess not.

Having grown up in a family that grew our own food, and raised our own

meat, we relied on ourselves for many things. We never went to the

doctor that I can remember except for emergencies and the unusual, like

the growth on my hand. We took fish oil, lecithin, gelatin, wheat germ,

garlic and parsley every day. I literally ate 3 cloves of garlic every

day and ate stalks and stalks of celery. Now if you take those things

you are considered a health freak or something. My mom is 83 with only a

minor heart problem, she just drove 10 hours from Arizona the other day

to come to California. Then she helped to rearrange her new home,

lifting furniture and stuff most 50 years olds can't do.

Lots of people want to blame genetics but when I got sick I looked long

and hard at my grandma, died at 98 no illness and my mom then 78 with no

illness and my sisters and brother with no illness, something else was

going on. It made me take a good long look at my lifestyle, stress,

environment and I came to many conclusions about how to help myself. I

knew after years of going round in circles getting nowhere with the

doctors and being sicker then I had ever been, that I had to literally

run as far as I could from the sickness care industry and find my own

way. I encourage others every day to do the same.I have said this many

times before but I have to say it again. Health is an active pursuit,

we have to go after it every single day for the rest of our lives, this

is a new day and almost everything around us is unhealthy. Take care.

tbayuk wrote:

>,

>You really have it altogether. That just might be the most realistic and

enlightening post I have seen in a number of years. Good for you....and all

who want to do what is best for themselves.

>Regards,

>Tom

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

My first ms symptom was in 1969. Felt like I was walking on marbles. Went to

the doc, he prescribed a pill that made me sleepy. Went to another doc, another

pill. This went on for about a year or so. I stopped going to doctors, always

ate healthy and fresh. Still do and am doing well in spite of ms. I have an 89

yr. old Uncle that grows his own food, has not been to the doctor in over 60

yrs. and is the picture of health. Works in his garden 6-8 hours a day.

Keep up the good work, regards,

Tom

Re: Re: spinal tap-Yvette

Thank you very much Tom for the nice words. Its so much easier to see

clearly when already through the forest, if you know what I mean. Its

only been with much education from englightend doctors and seeing what

so many people have had to go through that I have come to this

conclusion. I ask myself every day why did I make the right choice? Then

my sister showed me a letter she found that I had written her many

years ago when I was around 16 years old. She was at camp and I was home

and I was telling her of my experience with a doctor trying to diagnose

a growth on my hand. I was so frustrated because they did not have a

clue and sent me home without any answers. My dislike and distrust in

doctors back then was quite obvious by my words in the letter. I always

thought it was my more recent experiences that had soured me toward

doctors but I guess not.

Having grown up in a family that grew our own food, and raised our own

meat, we relied on ourselves for many things. We never went to the

doctor that I can remember except for emergencies and the unusual, like

the growth on my hand. We took fish oil, lecithin, gelatin, wheat germ,

garlic and parsley every day. I literally ate 3 cloves of garlic every

day and ate stalks and stalks of celery. Now if you take those things

you are considered a health freak or something. My mom is 83 with only a

minor heart problem, she just drove 10 hours from Arizona the other day

to come to California. Then she helped to rearrange her new home,

lifting furniture and stuff most 50 years olds can't do.

Lots of people want to blame genetics but when I got sick I looked long

and hard at my grandma, died at 98 no illness and my mom then 78 with no

illness and my sisters and brother with no illness, something else was

going on. It made me take a good long look at my lifestyle, stress,

environment and I came to many conclusions about how to help myself. I

knew after years of going round in circles getting nowhere with the

doctors and being sicker then I had ever been, that I had to literally

run as far as I could from the sickness care industry and find my own

way. I encourage others every day to do the same.I have said this many

times before but I have to say it again. Health is an active pursuit,

we have to go after it every single day for the rest of our lives, this

is a new day and almost everything around us is unhealthy. Take care.

tbayuk wrote:

>,

>You really have it altogether. That just might be the most realistic and

enlightening post I have seen in a number of years. Good for you....and all who

want to do what is best for themselves.

>Regards,

>Tom

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tom,

That is great about your uncle, not only eating the good food but

tending the soil the way we were designed. All the sun and dirt and

exercise is so good for you. I feel bad for older people who are stuck

indoors with nothing to do, no wonder they just wither and die. My mom

has stayed active playing golf, walking her dog and up until her move

back to Calif, she was working 30 hours per week! I don't think

retirement is a good thing at all and the elderly still can do plenty of

jobs.

Glad to hear you are still doing so good after all these years with MS,

its gives others hope.

tbayuk wrote:

>,

>My first ms symptom was in 1969. Felt like I was walking on marbles. Went to

the doc, he prescribed a pill that made me sleepy. Went to another doc, another

pill. This went on for about a year or so. I stopped going to doctors, always

ate healthy and fresh. Still do and am doing well in spite of ms. I have an 89

yr. old Uncle that grows his own food, has not been to the doctor in over 60

yrs. and is the picture of health. Works in his garden 6-8 hours a day.

>Keep up the good work, regards,

>Tom

>

>

>