Re: avoiding meds

November 1, 2000

Well, then, Elva, good luck on keeping off meds and hopefully off insulin

too. Yes, I remember when you first came to the list and your wimpiness about

poking. Let me tell you something interesting tho...the thought of taking

insulin really scared me too (I think it does everyone) -- the thought of

poking myself with a syringe multiple times daily made me shudder. But --

guess what? You do what you have to do. I got over it!

:-) Vicki

In a message dated 00-11-01 22:17:53 EST, you write:

<< No chance I will want to go on

insulin, I am a big wimp and the thought of injections makes me almost

faint. It took me long enough to learn to test my own bg level, I dont

want to deal with needles of any sort. I am proud of those folks who can

do it and not puke, I am not one of them.

At this point in my life I am willing and able to work hard to stay off of

the meds for as long as I can. >>

November 1, 2000

Well Elva, I'm 72, should weigh 164 but am 217. I was on insulin, oral,

now on diet only. I do eat simply, mostly fruit salad 1/2 potato with

dinner. Don't eat much at a time, eat until bedtime. Ny A1c recently was

6.0 I would not depend on meds, as they don't last like diet. Sam

November 2, 2000

> Yes it is general principles that make

> me want to stay off meds. I am at the

> younger end of the scale to be afflicted

> with t2 diabetes and I dont want another

> 40 or so years of life with daily drugs

Elva, in my view it is a matter of making the right trade-off. The

adverse effects are all long-term (10-20 years) so there is no way

you can tell if you are doing the right thing until it is too late.

All that is left is to rely on the epidemiology and studies of very

large populations over many years. I believe that you have to balance

the side-effects of medication against the long-term adverse effects

of relying on a diet deficient in important nutrients.

At your age I was also passionately opposed to taking tablets, but

then I didn't have diabetes. It took me many months to accept the

idea that I had to swallow tablets twice a day for the rest of my

life but now that has taken its place amongst such routine activities

as cleaning my teeth. You can get accustomed to anything.

> No chance I will want to go on insulin,

> I am a big wimp and the thought of injections

> makes me almost faint. It took me long enough

> to learn to test my own bg level, I dont want

> to deal with needles of any sort.

My wife used to faint at the sight of blood and adamantly refused to

make a test or have one made on her. She was cured of that quite

suddenly after spending time in an intensive care unit with

ketoacidosis, accompanied by some diabetics in the end stage. Again

it is a matter of making the right trade-off, you trade a few pin-

pricks now off against spending months with a bunch of pipes hanging

off you later.

November 2, 2000

> I would not depend on meds, as they

> don't last like diet.

So a little of everything must be even better, Sam? How about meds

plus diet plus exercise? Strike diet and replace with " correct

nutrition " ?

November 2, 2000

, I doubt you would be so vigorous in exercisong if your hips

started to hurt, you toes curled up in hammer toes. I do all the work

that gets done here which seems all I want to undertake. Exercise is a

luxury, work is a necessity. sam

November 2, 2000

, and no you do not need to stay on meds for the rest of your life,

lets get that straight, Sam

November 2, 2000

Sam,

Some people DO need to stay on meds because they don't have enough pancreatic

function to avoid meds.

Re: Re: avoiding meds

, and no you do not need to stay on meds for the rest of your life,

lets get that straight, Sam

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November 2, 2000

Teri, he's taking glucophage and eating heartily. I deplore the idea

that they have an illness, therefore a pill is required. Most have

expressed to me the desire to get off pills, and I suggest they may be

able to do so with dietary changes. Sam

November 2, 2000

> , I saw a chart on the net showing

> damaage related to HbA1c readings, it

> clearly began at 6, mine is 6.0, No I didn't

> save it. I think I have over 300 saved now.

300 what? Charts? How many are you going for? I will see if I can dig

you one out that goes below 6.0 but I doubt that anybody has

collected any data yet - that would be a tough one. People do all

kinds of funny things with charts, like extrapolating downwards past

their lowest data points - not nice at all!

November 3, 2000

Sam the Lion wrote:

<< , I doubt you would be so vigorous in exercisong if your hips started

to hurt, you toes curled up in hammer toes. I do all the work that gets done

here which seems all I want to undertake. Exercise is a

luxury, work is a necessity >>

That's my point too - and my hat is off to Sam for being such a good

caregiver to his ailing wife. I have had two heart attacks; Tootie has had

six; many diabetics have neuropathy, visual problems, gastroparesis, etc., as

well as unrelated health problems such as arthritis that prevent us from

being able to swim laps in the pool or hike or do hours on the

stair-steppers. Diabetics' inability to perform vigorous maneuvers does not

indicate a lack of desire to improve their health - just an acceptance of

reality. And that is why I recommend lowering carbohydrate intake. Even if a

diabetic has very little ability to exercise (my mom was in a wheelchair from

arthritis), we can still maintain good numbers if we minimize the foods that

spike us the worst.

Susie

November 3, 2000

Teri Rober wrote to Sam Levy:

<< Some people DO need to stay on meds because they don't have enough

pancreatic function to avoid meds. >>

It's ridiculously early here in Arizona, but I'm up with arthritis pain, so I

apologize if I seem foggy. But my take on what Sam the Lion posted was

essentially that diabetics need to accept just how powerfully our diet

impacts our disease. He is asking the rest of us to focus on that important

fact, and not mask it by popping pills. Yes, when diet no longer gives us the

control we desire, we can add pills and/or insulin. But if we have been

diagnosed diabetic and we are still eating high-carb and it is " working for

us, " then we are probably in the very early stages of the disease. The next

stage will be the rollercoaster ride, which Teri and others newly-diagnosed

are starting to experience. Then we will see the numbers rise. And it's at

that point (if we haven't already done so) that we need to pay more attention

to diet and/or meds.

My sister who was diagnosed type2 in 8th grade ignored her disease for years.

Then when she got sick enough they put her on sulfonylureas. She stayed on

them for years, despite my warnings. Nor her HbA1c's are spiraling out of

control. I'm trying to get her on insulin. She refuses. So she is trying a

low-carb diet. But it may be too late. All her health parameters are lousy.

I'm fearing that my own sister is going to die very young from this crappy

disease. I hope I can save her. And I certainly want to save the rest of you

- and myself. There are approx. 300 people in our group. If each of us can

reach out to another group of people such as relatives, neighbors, church

members, etc., and try to help them, well then we will have done a wondrous

thing. Saving a person's life is a wondrous thing ... we will all be heroes.

Let's not keep our genie in the bottle, but be free to share our knowledge

with others.

Susie

November 3, 2000

Sam Levy wrote of :

<< Teri, he's taking glucophage and eating heartily. I deplore the idea that

they have an illness, therefore a pill is required. Most have expressed to me

the desire to get off pills, and I suggest they may be able to do so with

dietary changes. >>

All I would add here is that is convinced he is following the Path to

True Enlightenment, with his eating style. I think he went into it hoping for

improved health, but I worry that he has become a " carb junky, " as has

happened with many of us in the U.S. who are presented with a dizzying array

of carbo-laden foods every single day. is a valuable addition to our

group. I am confident about his future prospects because he tests so

ferociously and has regular medical care. I just hope he is listening to Sam

the Lion and other seasoned warriors who have " walked the walk " for years and

years.

Susie

November 3, 2000

Thornton wrote:

<< I am down to Glucophage twice a day, Atacand Plus >>

Because I find the names of meds around the globe so maddeningly confusing,

I'll try when possible to give other names for them. Atacand is what those in

the US call HCTZ or hydrochlorathiadize -a blood pressure med.

Susie

November 3, 2000

Thornton wrote:

<< People do all kinds of funny things with charts, like extrapolating

downwards past their lowest data points - not nice at all! >>

, talk to Ron Sebol (rsebol@..., if memory serves correctly). I

believe he is some sort of advanced math weenie, and can provide valuable

insights.

Susie

November 3, 2000

Sam the Lion wrote:

<< Susie, I had hip pain that was terrible, all sorts of Rx painkillers. A

friend put me on glucosamine/chondroitin and it really worked. I got

another batch that doesn't work. Consumers Union said many of the pills

did not contain what they said. I recall the WalMart brand was good, I

may have to make a trip way out there, I hurt badly, I'm on my knees

typing, my hip hurts so. >>

Oh gosh, Sam - my heart goes out to you! The arthritis runs in my big family,

just like the diabetes. I was doing fine (my older sisters didn't even

realize I was arthritic), but that stupid " horse wreck " turned me into a sack

of rocks. It's been nearly six months now, and I hope to resume regular

exercise. But it's a PITA (pain in the ass) to groan every time you turn over

at night. At home, Rob and I have separate bedrooms, with ample beds, but

we're crammed into one double bed here. The " sound machine " has been a

wonderful help (we like ocean sounds the best), plus our mutual love (Rob's

snoring could win a world record, whereas I'm the " antsiest " person

imaginable ... fiddle fiddle fiddle, day and night.)

The saying in our family is " growing old isn't for cowards! " There's a

tremendous amount of bravery and love in our group! Sam the Lion is on his

knees, typing to us - trying to share the benefits of his many years dealing

with our shared disease. Just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your

help, Sam. Feel the love!! )

Susie

November 3, 2000

Robin G. wrote:

<< Wow! Type 2 in the 8th grade. That should make her 13-14, right? So

young. Was there some triggering factor, or was it simply her time? >>

Our family seem to be among those who were born diabetic, and all our

exercise and diets do is postpone the date of diagnosis. My sister diagnosed

in 8th grade was - like the rest of our family - an athletic tomboy. She and

her friends had horses and rode regularly. Also, we had a family business

that required all of us girls to do physical work regulary. And in the

earlier years, we lived on a farm that was like an Amish farm ... We did all

the work by hand, such as shocking the wheat and feeding and watering the

animals by hand. There was nothing in my or my sister's histories that would

predispose us to type2, other than heritage. And I go on like this just to

emphasize that we shouldn't allow the unenlightened to " blame us for our

disease. "

Susie

November 3, 2000

Susie, I had hip pain that was terrible, all sorts of Rx painkillers. A

friend put me on glucosamine/chondroitin and it really worked. I got

another batch that doesn't work. Consumers Union said many of the pills

did not contain what they said. I recall the WalMart brand was good, I

may have to make a trip way out there, I hurt badly, I'm on my knees

typing, my hip hurts so. Sam

November 3, 2000

Well, there's no doubt that I believe that! I'm not on any meds, and work daily

to keep it that way! If and when the time comes, I'll reluctantly use meds, but

I'll fight it as long as I can, by golly!!