Re: Is this too high?

[Guest guest]

Tootie:

Wow! Thanks so much for all your words of encouragement.

Yes, I am just now back to work on a trial work period after being on

disability for depression and anxiety for over four years. So i do

understand the not being able to work and just being home and not having

insurance etc.

But i did learn that all drug companies have special program that provide

free meds to people on low income. So what you need to find is someone to

assist you with applying for those programs. Here in MA at my clinic, they

had a woman who primarily did that for their clients.

If you want me to find out more info for you, I would be most happy to see if

you can apply yourself or what you might have to do to apply for those

benefits.

Also, I did take down your email addy and add to my book here on the puter.

Thanks so much for that offer as well.

I am getting very tired now so will head for bed

hugs

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 00-11-02 17:25:45 EST, you write:

<<

I am sure you are, Vicki. But I am not so sure about " totally avoid " .

The figures that we are given here for retinopathy, for example, are

as follows (most of the data comes from the US):

>>

Well, thanks for the good news, ...could've done without that one. On

the other hand, I wasn't diagnosed until age 60, almost three years ago -

and it wasn't longstanding either, as I had had a checkup three months

previously -- so by the time 15 years passes I'll be 75 and still maybe I'll

be in the lucky percentage who doesn't get it...My brother, who is eight

years younger and does not have diabetes has macular degeneration and may

lose his eyesight. anyway, just on the chance that good BGs can avoid

complications- includin retinopathy - I'll continue to work on keeping my BGs

as close to 100 as I can! Vicki

[Guest guest]

<<

But complications ARE a given when it comes to diabetes - being " over-

cautious " is not going to beat the odds, . >>

*****Not only do I not agree with this statement. I can't imagine living in

any sort of serenity if I believed that I would wind up with complications

no matter what. What I believe is that with good control, I will live

without complications. I do not believe that they are inevitable.

Barb

--------

Rainbow Farm Unltd.

Premium Oldenburgs & sport ponies

http://www.RainbowFarm.com

Equine photography

http://www.RainbowFarm.com/photos.html

[Guest guest]

, Damage does not happen all at once. do what you can and worry

makes it worse, be at ease, Sam

[Guest guest]

>.....hate to be a whiner.......many on

>here are so much worse off than me.....but didnt know who else to talk to

>about my diabetes than all of you here...........

****, that's what we are here for!

Hang in there and cheers,

Barb

This too shall pass.

--------

Rainbow Farm Unltd.

Premium Oldenburgs & sport ponies

http://www.RainbowFarm.com

Equine photography

http://www.RainbowFarm.com/photos.html

[Guest guest]

Oh my precious ,

You just have to snap out of this depression. Like you said, there's so

many so much worse off than you.....OR ME!. We are in a battle for our

lives and we can't give in to depression or the enemy (diabetes) will

destroy us. I don't mean to discourage you more by saying that. I actually

want to ENCOURAGE you. I have had to come to grips with this " curse " and

have the heart problems and renal failure to go along with it plus my lungs

have a lot of scar tissue from collapsing in the auto accident, but I'm

still alive and kicking. (Not very high though) I hate to admit it but

depression is one of the evils of our disease. I guess we all have bouts

with it. Have you ever thought about the word disease? That's exactly what

we have....dis-ease. Our bodies are not at ease. Since it's our body, then

there's nobody else that knows it as well as we do. That means it's up to

us to do the best we can to put it at ease. Am I babbling? Probably. But

I know what I'm talking about and maybe it will help you to deal with your

depression. You know, the depression WILL go away but the diabetes won't.

You just have to learn the best method of controlling it. Hey, this is

something that we have to live with for the rest of our lives. It's even

worse than a bad marriage. We can't divorce it. We're stuck with it. At

least you are able to work and that should help to a certain point. You can

concentrate on your job. I'm stuck at home and have to find other things to

concentrate on. I'm no longer able to drive, (I guess I could be considered

armed and dangerous while driving), can't exercise because of my heart,

can't go anywhere unless someone comes by and takes me, and have to go to

stores where there have scooters. Money is a big problem for me. My

medications are much more than my income so that keeps me busy trying to

find sources of help. You have no idea how much this has hurt my pride.

I've always been the " backbone " of our whole family and helped everyone

else. Now I am the one having to receive help. I've actually found that

once I " fessed up " to my doctors and told them that I have to give up one or

the other......food or medicine.....they got on the ball and are helping me

get some of the meds that I have to take. I take 12 pills 2 x daily and 2

shots of insulin each day. It actually takes me about an hour or more each

Monday morning just to sort out my pills, fill my little " one week pill

holder " , and fill my insulin syringes. Then I have the same problems as

you....trying to figure out what to eat....trying to cook it (without

burning the house down), cleaning up the mess in the kitchen, taking my

meds, and then starting all over again. You finally get used to it and just

do it out of habit. Come on now and give us a big smile. It's not so bad.

It could be so much worse. At least we have a roof over our heads, family,

friends, AND OUR COMPUTERS so we can stay in touch with our diabetic family

on the internet. I'm just thrilled to pieces that I still have my eyesight

so I can read all of the good information that we receive on here.

Just remember that I'm praying for every one of you every day and that

always makes me feel so much better. I just say my prayers, give all of

these problems to Jesus to take care of for all of us, roll over, and go to

sleep. Now, you just dry the tears and thank God for the blessings that he

has already given you. You can email me privately anytime if you want to.

I'm online at least 8 or 10 hours each day. You might say I'm addicted!

Love,

Tootie

Re: Re: Is this too high?

hiya All or anyone:

I am really down in the dumps over trying to get all this right.........

what

do you do when you get depressed....just tough it out????

Damn I was doing so good, have been testing before and after meals and

trying

to really adjust my foods to lower my carbs........but been stressed at

work

noticed that my levels were staying steadily up for me......

So got home, had dinner and have just be down and crying....thinking about

the statistics of complications and etc.....hate to be a whiner.......many

on

here are so much worse off than me.....but didnt know who else to talk to

about my diabetes than all of you here...........

hugs

[Guest guest]

> Well, thanks for the good news, ...

> could've done without that one. On the

> other hand, I wasn't diagnosed until

> age 60, almost three years ago - and it

> wasn't longstanding either, as I had

> had a checkup three months previously --

> so by the time 15 years passes I'll be

> 75 and still maybe I'll be in the lucky

> percentage who doesn't get it...

Sorry if I upset anybody, but we are always being told to set

realistic goals and " totally avoid " did not seem to be one of them to

me. And somebody on this list is constantly telling me not to make

unsubstantiated statements but give some figures and a reference so I

did and now that was wrong, too! Oh, dear me!

It is important not to confuse statistics for the general population

and the prognosis for individuals who deliberately work against all

the risk factors. To do that you have to know them, so I quoted the

risk factors for just one of the complications to show that raised

HbA1c is only one of the risk factors, and not even the most

significant. To suggest that normalization of BGs could lead to being

able to " totally avoid " all complications is being rather over-

optimistic in my opinion and could produce a false sense of security.

Of course, a false sense of security might well be what some members

of this list are looking for here so I can understand them if they

get depressed about it. It didn't make me feel too good, either, but

I believe that it is better to know your enemy than stick your head

in the sand - depression passes over, the risks remain.

> I'll continue to work on keeping my BGs

> as close to 100 as I can!

Me too, but I am not putting all my money on that one horse!

[Guest guest]

> Barb and , not only do long term

> diabetics get some problems, they

> may well have them in spite of good

> control.

I am quite happy at the prospect of becoming a " long-term diabetic " ,

Sam, some people don't live long enough to be long-term anything. We

sometimes have to look hard for that silver lining but it is usually

there. I don't subscribe to the philosophy that it is better not even

to look for the clouds in the first place!

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

AS you can see, DM is not a " one treatment fits all " kind of condition.

Having the realization that complications can be in the future is a powerful

motivation for us to take the best care of ourselves that we can.

If one treatment is not working as well as you and your dr want, try another

direction. If problems start developing, it is critical to treat the problem

right away before symptoms worsen.

My endo treats the whole patient and stress management is part of my DM care.

Personally, I use some meditation techniques and find that I'm able to

weather through some heavy-duty stressful situations. What is important is to

focus on your total health and look for techniques to help you relax as you

take care of yourself.

I was dxed early (1/99) with an HbA1c of 7.5 (normal was <6.5) and was on

glucophage for 6 months. Now, I maintain with D & E alone. I've tried different

eating patterns and found what works for me. My husband, also a T2 since the

late 80's, controls his dm with insulin alone since orals caused side

effects. That was the best choice for him.

So, now that you're motivated, take this one step at a time. DM can seem

overwhelming at first, but keep on testing to see what works!

Carol T

In a message dated Thu, 2 Nov 2000 10:37:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,

cariapat@... writes:

<< hiya All or anyone:

I am really down in the dumps over trying to get all this right......... what

do you do when you get depressed....just tough it out????Damn I was doing so

good, have been testing before and after meals and trying to really adjust my

foods to lower my carbs........but been stressed at work noticed that my

levels were staying steadily up for me......

So got home, had dinner and have just be down and crying....thinking about

the statistics of complications and etc.....hate to be a whiner.......many on

here are so much worse off than me.....but didnt know who else to talk to

about my diabetes than all of you here...........

hugs

[Guest guest]

Tootie,

What beautiful words for .

Carol T

In a message dated Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:52:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, " Naomi

s " writes:

<< Oh my precious ,

You just have to snap out of this depression. Like you said, there's so many

so much worse off than you.....OR ME!. We are in a battle for our lives and

we can't give in to depression or the enemy (diabetes) will

destroy us. I don't mean to discourage you more by saying that. I actually

want to ENCOURAGE you. I have had to come to grips with this " curse " and

have the heart problems and renal failure to go along with it plus my lungs

have a lot of scar tissue from collapsing in the auto accident, but I'm still

alive and kicking. (Not very high though) I hate to admit it but

depression is one of the evils of our disease. I guess we all have bouts

with it. Have you ever thought about the word disease? That's exactly what

we have....dis-ease. Our bodies are not at ease. Since it's our body, then

there's nobody else that knows it as well as we do. That means it's up to us

to do the best we can to put it at ease. Am I babbling? Probably. But

I know what I'm talking about and maybe it will help you to deal with your

depression. You know, the depression WILL go away but the diabetes won't.

You just have to learn the best method of controlling it. Hey, this is

something that we have to live with for the rest of our lives. It's even

worse than a bad marriage. We can't divorce it. We're stuck with it. At

least you are able to work and that should help to a certain point. You can

concentrate on your job. I'm stuck at home and have to find other things to

concentrate on. I'm no longer able to drive, (I guess I could be considered

armed and dangerous while driving), can't exercise because of my heart,

can't go anywhere unless someone comes by and takes me, and have to go to

stores where there have scooters. Money is a big problem for me. My

medications are much more than my income so that keeps me busy trying to

find sources of help. You have no idea how much this has hurt my pride. I've

always been the " backbone " of our whole family and helped everyone else. Now

I am the one having to receive help. I've actually found that once I " fessed

up " to my doctors and told them that I have to give up one or the

other......food or medicine.....they got on the ball and are helping me

get some of the meds that I have to take. I take 12 pills 2 x daily and 2

shots of insulin each day. It actually takes me about an hour or more each

Monday morning just to sort out my pills, fill my little " one week pill

holder " , and fill my insulin syringes. Then I have the same problems as

you....trying to figure out what to eat....trying to cook it (without burning

the house down), cleaning up the mess in the kitchen, taking my meds, and

then starting all over again. You finally get used to it and just do it out

of habit. Come on now and give us a big smile. It's not so bad.It could be

so much worse. At least we have a roof over our heads, family, friends, AND

OUR COMPUTERS so we can stay in touch with our diabetic family on the

internet. I'm just thrilled to pieces that I still have my eyesight so I can

read all of the good information that we receive on here.

[Guest guest]

Sam the Lion wrote:

<< 2 hour readings are affected by 2 things, how many carbs eaten in what

form, and the bodies ability to recover from a peak. I found my peak was

about 60-90 minutes, and the 2 hour told me my ability to bring it down. Now

i seldom test, having learned when I need to test. I do see a correlation

between fasting and my previous days control, but remember I am on no meds

and try to keep my sugars even all day even

until bedtime. >>

Sam's experience is similar to mine. When I have the long, high peaks is when

I eat grains, such as a plate of pasta. Then, I can stay high for hours - and

feel like hell. My heart pounds, I take on water like a camel at an oasis,

and I feel sluggish. I felt this way much of the time that I tried to follow

the low-fat/high-carb diet recommended by many dietitians for diabetics.

Susie

[Guest guest]

Sam,

Regarding my hubby's meds,his first oral (in the mid 80's)was glucotrol and

then he switched to glucophage. He was also on many other meds for cardiac

arrhythmias, blood pressure, etc. The side effects experienced by my husband

involved the liver. However, he also had severe malabsorbtion probems and

therefore, poor glucose control. Once he started insulin, his control

improved dramatically. He has used N & Humalog for years and is maintaining

great bg control, except for one episode with a megadose of prednisone.

Carol T

In a message dated Fri, 3 Nov 2000 8:55:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, E

Levy writes:

<< Carol T, I put myself on glyburide, and I never had side effects. are

you referring to glucophage? The only thing was to have some food around

so if you started to go low you could " fix " it.I had very good control,

too good, it allowed me too eat too much, Sam

Public website for Diabetes International:

http://www.msteri.com/diabetes-info/diabetes_int

>>

[Guest guest]

Thornton wrote:

<< But complications ARE a given when it comes to diabetes - being " over-

cautious " is not going to beat the odds, . Most diabetics already have

some of the complications when they are diagnosed. Being

prepared might help to minimize the consequences but that is about all we

have at the moment in my opinion. >>

I have used the " Wizard of Oz " reference before ... " Pay no attention to that

man behind the curtain! " I will emphasize again that complications have

historically been fellow travelers with diabetes. But it is, I hope, a whole

new ballgame now. With many of us actually reversing complications via good

control, who is to say that complications are inevitable? I had oodles of

complications years ago; I'm much healthier now.

" I was so much older then

I'm younger than that now. "

The Byrds

[Guest guest]

Sam,

It took lots of testing, trial and error for him to dose correctly. He was

dxed last year with celiac disease and since staying gluten-free, he can

predict his food responses more accurately.

Carol T

[Guest guest]

wrote:

<< I am really down in the dumps over trying to get all this right.........

what do you do when you get depressed....just tough it out???? Damn I was

doing so good, have been testing before and after meals and trying to really

adjust my foods to lower my carbs........but been stressed at work noticed

that my levels were staying steadily up for me......So got home, had dinner

and have just be down and crying....thinking about

the statistics of complications and etc.....hate to be a whiner.......many

on here are so much worse off than me.....but didnt know who else to talk to

about my diabetes than all of you here........... >>

Damn, ... This is why I get so mad at . He is all doom & gloom.

Don't let the naysayers get to you, girl. There's lots of us on this list who

have gone on for years now, not only with no evidence of complications, but

who have actually improved their health. I hate to have others depressed. Not

only am I convinced it's not necessary, but it's bad for your diabetes

control. Look, sweetheart ... one person's opinion is all that it is ... just

one person speaking. Listen to the whole group chime in ... Lots of us are

doing just great ... and we are really-old farts! )

Just you believe in yourself and believe in a bright future ... Don't let the

negativity specialists make you think there's not a good reason to take good

care of yourself. Early yesterday morning Rob and I drove to Mexico. There we

found a stained-glass shop that makes reproductions. We bought a

beautiful pair of stained-glass lampshades, plus other lovely items. We had

lunch in a great restaurant. We were serenaded by a trio of musicians with

truly angelic voices. We had lots of fun with the give & take on the streets

of a border town. I really like Mexican people ... they take wonderful care

of their children, and they are neat and do the best they can with what they

have. It was such a wonderful day. And we drove through Tucson and saw more

cactuses than I would have imagined possible, and made happy plans for the

future.

If you listen to the negativity specialists, you can feel really hopeless. My

alter-ego is " Sheena, Queen of the Wolves. " Create your own powerful

alter-ego who will help you through the dark times. Listen to other powerful

" Sheenas " in this group. We've been " living the life " for years now ... Are

we dead yet? Are we even sick yet? We're talking straight to you ... I have

known others in this group for years. So trust in us ... not those who would

make you feel hopeless and depressed.

Hugs to you, kiddo ...

Susie (Sheena) )

[Guest guest]

Carol T. wrote:

<< Tootie, What beautiful words for . >>

I consider Tootie the soul of this group, and our inspiration. May all of us

strive for this grace and love and acceptance and bravery.

Susie (with hugs to Tootie)

[Guest guest]

Sam Levy wrote:

<< Carol T, I put myself on glyburide, and I never had side effects. >>

But if you had stayed on it long-term, it's likely your pancreas would have

died in short order, you would have doubled your heart attack/stroke risk,

and you would have gained weight - which would have increased your insulin

resistance - which would have worsened your diabetes situation.

Susie

[Guest guest]

> Sticking your head into

> the sand is one strategy, but you open yourself up to disappointment

> later.

Realism is fine. I struggle with realism every day. And to have a little

more realism injected into my life is good. Some things I have absolutely no

control over. All I can do is test, go to doctors, and try to eat the way

that I should (okay, and exercise too, but I'm not good at that one yet).

Complications, including blindness, is quite possibly a given for diabetics,

however, if I worry that in only 4 years that I might be blind (at age 43),

I can get bogged down in statistics, I could easily let the depression take

over me.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't share info on the negative side. We should.

And I do appreciate all the information that is shared.

To be forewarned is to be forearmed... I'm not sure who said it, but I

believe that is where you are coming from. And I can certainly appreciate

it.

[Guest guest]

Carol T, I put myself on glyburide, and I never had side effects. are

you referring to glucophage? The only thing was to have some food around

so if you started to go low you could " fix " it.I had very good control,

too good, it allowed me too eat too much, Sam

[Guest guest]

Thanks Carol T, I find that really good control was hard with insulin,

no self regulation at all, just trying to keep the car on the road, so

to speak. I find my regulatory system is still there, if I don't

challenge it with meals, putting the carbs in all at once. I can go for

extended periods with no food and really good sugars, it must be my

emergency supply kicking in. sam

[Guest guest]

Susie, I was able to take charge of my diabetes. I was ablee to choose

my own insulin, test myself, and was free to adopt whatever control

method I chose. I was initially put on insulin, one N shot a day. I read

that R lasted about 6 hours which seemed to fit the time between meals

and N 12 hours which seemed to match the dinner to dawn time. I

continually adjusted my dose, not doing badly, when i realized I had

never been tried on oral. By chance i found glyburide 2.5 which gave me

good control. I could eat anything, and did, It began to be ineffective,

I went back on insulin. My dose kept climbing. I quit fat and in weeks

my insulin dose dropped and I was able to go on glyburide again. I am on

dietary control now, and have helped many others to accomplish this

seemingly simple task.

I'm rather burned out on this now, picking people from bulletin boards

and individually telling them wwhat worked for me. I stopped. sam

[Guest guest]

I second that! I would also add that she has a grace that I have seldom

encountered in anyone of any age. I love you, Tootie!!

Re: Re: Is this too high?

I consider Tootie the soul of this group, and our inspiration. May all of us

strive for this grace and love and acceptance and bravery.

Susie (with hugs to Tootie)

[Guest guest]

Carol:

Thanks so much for your kind words.

I have been testing before and after meals and exercising daily, but the Dr.

says she wants the numbers down and if that can happen would take me off the

meds. So that is my goal

hugs

Public website for Diabetes International:

http://www.msteri.com/diabetes-info/diabetes_int

[Guest guest]

Oh my dear sweet Teri,

I appreciate you so very much. Thank you for saying such nice things. You

make me feel so loved.

Love you,

Tootie

Re: Re: Is this too high?

I second that! I would also add that she has a grace that I have seldom

encountered in anyone of any age. I love you, Tootie!!

Re: Re: Is this too high?

I consider Tootie the soul of this group, and our inspiration. May all

of us

strive for this grace and love and acceptance and bravery.

Susie (with hugs to Tootie)

[Guest guest]

Thornton wrote:

<< Type 2 diabetics are kept above 5.0% for safety reasons - the risks of

going below 5% being far greater than any marginal advantage to be gained. >>

That would apply to a high-carbing diabetic matching the regular postprandial

glucose spikes with a sulfonylurea and/or injected insulin. Diabetics

controlling with diet, exercise, and/or meds don't die of hypos with tight

control.

<< So the classification seems to be: anywhere in the 5s and you are

well-adjusted, in the 6s and you are safe from complications for now

(age-dependent) but we will see how it goes, in the 7s and we need to try a

higher dose, 8 and above and you are badly adjusted and need something more,

like insulin. Variations of less than 1% point in the same person are

considered to be personal physiological variations or measurement error. This

whole HbA1c thing has about the accuracy of a urine test strip, in my

judgement! What kind of normal ranges are found in the US? >>

The DCCT and UKPDS say anything below 7.0 is good control. But their test

subjects ate high-carb, by design. Most US labs use a Normal Range of approx.

4.5 - 6.5. I'd like to see it adjusted to 4.5 - 6.0. But the upper range of

Normal includes the approx. 1/3 to 1/2 of all US diabetics who remain

undiagnosed. Rob's complications, e.g., scream diabetes, but because he has

adjusted his diet, fasting glucose readings and HbA1c's don't " give him

away. " He has had two GTT's, but the first time they lost his blood samples,

and the second time, they lost his crucial 1-1/2 hour reading.

Susie