Re: Fwd: the term "autistics" banned in NY?

[Guest guest]

" Nerd " has always worked well for me. I like " Aspie " too. Sometimes when I

want to be formal, as in my graduate school application letter, I say

" Aspergerian " . That sounds like I'm a visitor from a different culture or

planet, which is how I feel. As a kid I coined the term " Intie " , that didn't

work as well as " Nerd " because no one knew what I meant.

I agree, people should have the ultimate right to decide what to call

themselves. Isn't this why Black people may call themselves the N word but no

one else may say it? Indians is another interesting one. I have some Indian

heritage, or Native American if you prefer. That is, most of the Indians I know

call themselves Indian, or else by their tribe name, or else by their personal

name. " Native " is catching on too. I've heard some Indians say " Native

American " is too long and sounds too " stuffy " . Indians who are heavily involved

in politics or academia tend to say " Native American " when " on the job " but

around powwows, stomps, etc, you mostly hear " Indian " . One thing that's growing

less acceptable among Indians, however, is to say you're " part Indian " . (Or

" half Indian " , " quarter Indian " , etc. The reasons for this are complex and I

don't want to digress into them unless someone is interested.) To get around

this, I've taken to saying " I have some Indian heritage " , a

phrase which I beileve I've coined, and it seems to be acceptable, in fact, I'm

beginning to hear others say this too.

And then of course there's the Little People, who have used their clout with

the entertainment business to be called what they prefer, Little People, rather

than Midgets, which is considered derogatory and a flashback to sideshow sleeze.

We have the same sort of clout with the technology business as the Little

People have with the entertainment business. We can use that clout to get

called what we want to be called. This will prohably take some public

self-identification, as in, if some high profile techno guru identifies himself

or herself as Aspie, Autistic, etc. And there's the rub. It's obvious that a

Little Person is different from others, and it's natural to want a name for this

difference. So when this comes up naturally in conversatoin, as in, when

someone on the movie set refers to " that midget " , it's an opening for the Little

Person or his/her allies to say " Oh, you mean the Little Person " , or something

like that. But for us, it's not so obvious, so there will be less opportunities

to declare. Especially for those of us who don't speak. Still, it can be done.

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Joni wrote:

>I agree, people should have the ultimate right to decide what to

>call themselves. Isn't this why Black people may call themselves the

>N word but no one else may say it? Indians is another interesting

>one. I have some Indian heritage, or Native American if you prefer.

>That is, most of the Indians I know call themselves Indian, or else

>by their tribe name, or else by their personal name. " Native " is

>catching on too.

One day at work I answered the phone and someone asked if the

University has an " aboriginal studies program. " I immediately started

searching my brain for what I might know about a U program on native

Australians. But then I remembered that my Canadian sister refers to

native Canadian people as aboriginal. Sure enough, it turns out the

woman on the phone was looking for a program on North American

natives (not people born here, but people from

native-to-this-continent-for-millennia populations).

Jane

[Guest guest]

Joni,

I would love to know why half Indian is not good. I ahve a friend who is

half Swedish, and does not mind referring to herself that way.

joni pinkney wrote:

" Nerd " has always worked well for me. I like " Aspie " too. Sometimes

when I want to be formal, as in my graduate school application letter, I say

" Aspergerian " . That sounds like I'm a visitor from a different culture or

planet, which is how I feel. As a kid I coined the term " Intie " , that didn't

work as well as " Nerd " because no one knew what I meant.

I agree, people should have the ultimate right to decide what to call

themselves. Isn't this why Black people may call themselves the N word but no

one else may say it? Indians is another interesting one. I have some Indian

heritage, or Native American if you prefer. That is, most of the Indians I know

call themselves Indian, or else by their tribe name, or else by their personal

name. " Native " is catching on too. I've heard some Indians say " Native American "

is too long and sounds too " stuffy " . Indians who are heavily involved in

politics or academia tend to say " Native American " when " on the job " but around

powwows, stomps, etc, you mostly hear " Indian " . One thing that's growing less

acceptable among Indians, however, is to say you're " part Indian " . (Or " half

Indian " , " quarter Indian " , etc. The reasons for this are complex and I don't

want to digress into them unless someone is interested.) To get around this,

I've taken to saying " I have some Indian heritage " , a

phrase which I beileve I've coined, and it seems to be acceptable, in fact, I'm

beginning to hear others say this too.

And then of course there's the Little People, who have used their clout with the

entertainment business to be called what they prefer, Little People, rather than

Midgets, which is considered derogatory and a flashback to sideshow sleeze.

We have the same sort of clout with the technology business as the Little People

have with the entertainment business. We can use that clout to get called what

we want to be called. This will prohably take some public self-identification,

as in, if some high profile techno guru identifies himself or herself as Aspie,

Autistic, etc. And there's the rub. It's obvious that a Little Person is

different from others, and it's natural to want a name for this difference. So

when this comes up naturally in conversatoin, as in, when someone on the movie

set refers to " that midget " , it's an opening for the Little Person or his/her

allies to say " Oh, you mean the Little Person " , or something like that. But for

us, it's not so obvious, so there will be less opportunities to declare.

Especially for those of us who don't speak. Still, it can be done.

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I've taken to saying " I have some Indian heritage " , a

phrase which I beileve I've coined, and it seems to be acceptable, in fact, I'm

beginning to hear others say this too.

HiJoni,

I'm not sure what tribe you are, but in Canada there are very few tribes left

where one can say they are 'full blooded'. In fact, I think I remember being

told that the last full-blood Mohawk has passed away. So I'm not surprised to

hear that many are beginning to describe themselves in the manner you say.

Then, there are the problems with who carries the bloodline men not being

allowed to claim status even though they should be. And it goes on and on...

So, Indian Heritage works well!

jo

Re: Fwd: the term " autistics " banned in NY?

" Nerd " has always worked well for me. I like " Aspie " too. Sometimes when I want

to be formal, as in my graduate school application letter, I say " Aspergerian " .

That sounds like I'm a visitor from a different culture or planet, which is how

I feel. As a kid I coined the term " Intie " , that didn't work as well as " Nerd "

because no one knew what I meant.

I agree, people should have the ultimate right to decide what to call

themselves. Isn't this why Black people may call themselves the N word but no

one else may say it? Indians is another interesting one. I have some Indian

heritage, or Native American if you prefer. That is, most of the Indians I know

call themselves Indian, or else by their tribe name, or else by their personal

name. " Native " is catching on too. I've heard some Indians say " Native American "

is too long and sounds too " stuffy " . Indians who are heavily involved in

politics or academia tend to say " Native American " when " on the job " but around

powwows, stomps, etc, you mostly hear " Indian " . One thing that's growing less

acceptable among Indians, however, is to say you're " part Indian " . (Or " half

Indian " , " quarter Indian " , etc. The reasons for this are complex and I don't

want to digress into them unless someone is interested.) To get around this,

I've taken to saying " I have some Indian

heritage " , a

phrase which I beileve I've coined, and it seems to be acceptable, in fact, I'm

beginning to hear others say this too.

And then of course there's the Little People, who have used their clout with the

entertainment business to be called what they prefer, Little People, rather than

Midgets, which is considered derogatory and a flashback to sideshow sleeze.

We have the same sort of clout with the technology business as the Little People

have with the entertainment business. We can use that clout to get called what

we want to be called. This will prohably take some public self-identification ,

as in, if some high profile techno guru identifies himself or herself as Aspie,

Autistic, etc. And there's the rub. It's obvious that a Little Person is

different from others, and it's natural to want a name for this difference. So

when this comes up naturally in conversatoin, as in, when someone on the movie

set refers to " that midget " , it's an opening for the Little Person or his/her

allies to say " Oh, you mean the Little Person " , or something like that. But for

us, it's not so obvious, so there will be less opportunities to declare.

Especially for those of us who don't speak. Still, it can be done.

------------ --------- --------- ---

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[Guest guest]

There's a few reasons why it's not acceptable to say you're " half', " part " ,

" quarter " , etc, Indian.

One is the " fullbloods only " movement among some Indians, that if you're less

than " fullblood " you're not really Indian, you're just a " wannabe " . People like

this are likely to say " You can't be part Indian, you either are or your'e not " .

And if you are, you have strong Indian features, hair, face, skin tone, that

shows no sign of mixture with other races. Otherwise, you'd better be able to

" prove it " , which means, show your card. This is the same sort of " bloodline "

thinking as you see in any other group that identifies themselves via genetic

heritage. Trouble with this is, there are very few " fullbloods " any more in

some areas of the country, and some people of mixed heritage identify as Indian

and contribute to Indian society. If yo'ure of mixed heritage but have a US

gov't issued ID card stating that your'e a member of a tribe, you can get away

with saying you're " Indian " but still people will ask to see your card

sometimes, unless they know you. THis works ok

in the western part of the US, where more tribes kept their intactness, but in

the East and South, (where I " m from), many people with Indian heritage are

unable to prove tribal affiliation and don't have cards. Some struggle to trace

their geneologies to get that card in their pocket that gives them the " right "

to claim their identity and heritage. (Here I'm not talking so much about

treaty rights, fishing, education, etc, but simply social identity and

affiliation.) I've been that route and turned up a few leads, but nothing solid

enough to take to the offices of the tribes in question and enroll as a member.

Other objections to the " part " or " half " language is that it connotes breeding

of animals rather than mixing of human cultures. As in " half breed " , etc. Also

it connotes mutilation, as in " which part Indian are you? Your arms? Your

legs? Which of your fingers is Indian? " I've actually heard this, and it's no

fun to have to defend one's idenitty when confronted by folks who are " more

Indian than thou " . I have a hard time with confrontations anyhow, tend to clam

up and shut down.

It's a very complicated situation here in the US, with Indians considered

members of their own sovreign nations, with treaty rights etc, and defined by

their relation with the US govt, unlike other cultural groups who simply self

identify for social purposes. Some " fullbloods only " folks fear that

mixedbloods, people with undocumented (but real) Indian heritage, and other

assorted " wannabes " will dilute their treaty rights and pollute their

ceremonies. SO they demand the " fullblood look " , and / or a tribal ID card in

one's pocket, and/or close blood affiliation with known Indians, before you're

accepted as " Indian "

I don't have a card in my pocket, and where I come from, the deep South, many

Indian tribes have been assimliated long before regular documentation

proceedures were established. But I do have some Indian heritage. I feel it,

and it shows in my physical features. However, I don't look " pure " , and,

without the " pureblood " look and or the card in my pocket, I can't say I am

Indian. But I can't deny it either. And phrases that invite arguement are out.

So the phrase " I have some Indian heritage " works well for me. Since I came up

with that phrase, I don't have to get into arguements with other Indians over

whether or not I have a right to call myself what I am.

Joni

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Joni wrote:

>...This is the same sort of

> " bloodline " thinking as you see in any other group that identifies

>themselves via genetic heritage. Trouble with this is, there are

>very few " fullbloods " any more in some areas of the country, and

>some people of mixed heritage identify as Indian and contribute to

>Indian society. If yo'ure of mixed heritage but have a US gov't

>issued ID card stating that your'e a member of a tribe, you can get

>away with saying you're " Indian " but still people will ask to see

>your card sometimes, unless they know you.

Some autistics have been challenged by parents of autistic children

who say, " You don't look like my autistic child, so I won't believe

you're autistic unless you show me proof of your diagnosis. " I

realize it's not the same thing as you're talking about (there's a

much longer, bloodier history behind what you describe), but there

are (or seem to me to be) echoes of the same kind of thinking. I

guess it's just one of those mental patterns our species falls into

all too often. Trying to eliminate the " confusion " of reality in

order to achieve some unattainable " clarity. " That kind of " clarity "

always turns out to be a lie sooner or later, but sometimes it can

seem so close and so desirable (as in, all we have to do is stick

together and exclude Them!).

Jane

[Guest guest]

Yeah, there's an annoying human tendancy to divide the world

into " us " and " them " and want everyone to fall clearly into one

category or another. that's why folks who don't quite fit into

either category are more disconcerting than folks who are clearly

autistic, or Black, or Indian, or whatever.

One of my ex's is a male to female transexual, self identified and

self defined. She never had the operation, couldn't jump thru all

the hoops you need to get it in the US. She says there's the same

sort of " right to identify " among the transexual community. Those

with documentation from a doctor are higher up than the " wannabes "

who don't have such documetnation. Those who've had the operation

are higher up than those whose transion is still in progress, and

these in turn are higher up than those who have not begun the

transition.

My current SO is, I believe, an Aspie, though he denies it, says

he's not an Aspie, although maybe he used to be; now he's a shaman.

This in a society that recognises shamans even less than they

recognise Aspies. But I believe that everyone has a right to

self=identify as they see fit, within reason, so I don't argue.

Maybe it would be ok for the non-docomented folks to say they have

some Aspergerian or Autistic Heritage.

BTW, has anyone checked out the site about Aspergeria? Don't have

the link handy but a search ought to turn it up. The myth there is

that we are survivors of a lost island people, the island of

Aspergeria. And they suggest an " Aspergerian passport " which

consists of an orange bracelet of any material or design that one

chooses. Not sure what's with the orange, seems to me purple would

be better. But that's what was suggested and I suppose there are

other Aspergerians wearing an orange bracelet. Now I wear one, of

beads, that I made myself, maybe someone will recognise it and we

can talk. Kind of leading into the other topic thread. -- Joni

> >...This is the same sort of

> > " bloodline " thinking as you see in any other group that identifies

> >themselves via genetic heritage. Trouble with this is, there are

> >very few " fullbloods " any more in some areas of the country, and

> >some people of mixed heritage identify as Indian and contribute to

> >Indian society. If yo'ure of mixed heritage but have a US gov't

> >issued ID card stating that your'e a member of a tribe, you can

get

> >away with saying you're " Indian " but still people will ask to see

> >your card sometimes, unless they know you.

>

> Some autistics have been challenged by parents of autistic

children

> who say, " You don't look like my autistic child, so I won't

believe

> you're autistic unless you show me proof of your diagnosis. " I

> realize it's not the same thing as you're talking about (there's a

> much longer, bloodier history behind what you describe), but there

> are (or seem to me to be) echoes of the same kind of thinking. I

> guess it's just one of those mental patterns our species falls

into

> all too often. Trying to eliminate the " confusion " of reality in

> order to achieve some unattainable " clarity. " That kind

of " clarity "

> always turns out to be a lie sooner or later, but sometimes it can

> seem so close and so desirable (as in, all we have to do is stick

> together and exclude Them!).

>

> Jane

>

[Guest guest]

Joni,

I don't mind orange for Aspergeria- it fits my synesthesia for the sound of

part of the name pretty well- but can I still wear it if I am not really all

that into evolutionary mythology? Anyway, it sounds like fun.

By the way, how do you quit being AS, and turn into a shaman?

I am still laughing at the picture my mind makes when I think about this one-

poof!

jonipinkney wrote:

My current SO is, I believe, an Aspie, though he denies it, says

he's not an Aspie, although maybe he used to be; now he's a shaman.

This in a society that recognises shamans even less than they

recognise Aspies. But I believe that everyone has a right to

self=identify as they see fit, within reason, so I don't argue.

Maybe it would be ok for the non-docomented folks to say they have

some Aspergerian or Autistic Heritage.

BTW, has anyone checked out the site about Aspergeria? Don't have

the link handy but a search ought to turn it up. The myth there is

that we are survivors of a lost island people, the island of

Aspergeria. And they suggest an " Aspergerian passport " which

consists of an orange bracelet of any material or design that one

chooses. Not sure what's with the orange, seems to me purple would

be better. But that's what was suggested and I suppose there are

other Aspergerians wearing an orange bracelet. Now I wear one, of

beads, that I made myself, maybe someone will recognise it and we

can talk. Kind of leading into the other topic thread. -- Joni

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[Guest guest]

Sure you can! The evolutionary mythology is just that -- mythology. Mythology

is just stories to help people understand themselves and feel better. If it

works for you, fine. If not, that's ok too. And it's neat. THe other day on

campus I saw a guy wearing an orange cloth coated rubber band around his wrist,

the kind that people use to hold back their hair in pony tails. I thought maybe

he as an Aspie, and watched him with his group of friends, for signs. But his

behavior gave no signs. Then I saw him take off the band and use it to tie back

his hair. Oh well, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

But this relates to another person's question, Rhoda's I think. If the orange

bracelet becomes a recognizable sign, then there's no need to walk up to a

perfect stranger and start talking about gorillas.

POOF! I love that image! But really it's just a matter of self

identification. My adopted brother / SO considers himself a shaman, although

that's not the word he uses, and he has a few odd psychic talents to justify

this claim. He read over an online Aspie test with me and admitted he has quite

a few Aspie traits as well. But he said, " Maybe I used to be an Aspie, but now

I'm a shaman " . (Actually he didn't say shaman, he used a more obscure word that

means the same thing as shaman. I'm not using the word he uses, as a matter of

respectng his privacy. If he chooses to join this list, he'll introduce himself

and use the word he uses.)

So there you go. POOF!

Re:

Joni,

I don't mind orange for Aspergeria- it fits my synesthesia for the sound of part

of the name pretty well- but can I still wear it if I am not really all that

into evolutionary mythology? Anyway, it sounds like fun.

By the way, how do you quit being AS, and turn into a shaman?

I am still laughing at the picture my mind makes when I think about this one-

poof!

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