Re: Re: Titanium clips used during prostatectomy surgery?

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Hi Ron:I am a practicing podiatrist in New Jersey. Surgical grade titanium is actually softer than stainless steel for most applications (plates, etc). It is more easily bendable and moldable to surfaces, such as bone. It is sometimes used in people with allergies to any component in steel. If an MRI is performed on a patient with steel inserted, such as a screw or plate, you get a "star burst" effect on the picture. This can obscure detail and make the study less valid or give you less information than you may need. The other concern has always been, would stainless steel be drawn up into the machine during an MRI? It is essentially a large magnet that reverses polarity. It measures ions such as hydrogen during the study. Changing the polarity, substances such as bone, fat, blood, or water with change from light to dark and vice versa depending on their consistency and makeup. Currently, for patients with total knee or hip prostheses for example, you can order a "prosthesis protocol study" that takes into effect that the patient has a large piece of metal somewhere in the body. As to why the clips were used in the prostatectomy, I can only guess. Sometimes instead of tying off bleeders during a surgery, a "clip gun" is used. The clip compresses the blood vessel to close it down, and prevent bleeding post operatively, or during the case to allow better visualization of the surgical field. Again, this is only a guess in the case in question. Good luck with everything. To: prostatecancersupport From: rbmoy@...Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 15:53:47 -0500Subject: Fw: Re: Titanium clips used during prostatectomy surgery?

correcting some wording here....... mis- spelled (or gave wrong description) saying non-metalic ..that of course WAS meant to say non-magnetic. Then supposing that titanium being very tough etc. is used in lieu of some other metal? It is still confusing that metal poses some sort of problem with X-rays.

Perhaps Fuller with his engineering bent could explain why metal in your body would defer future MRI's?

Amazing that non-magnetic material ie: gold crowns, wires etc. don't seem to bother and if there is some sort of question regarding other metals......who would want to use them and for what purpose.?

Yes, there should be a doctor in the house!

There should be no guess work given with any surgery in this time and place. Short cuts should not be made period! If more care is needed to avoid any kind of damage because someone performing procedure needs 500 cases under their belt.....then some licensing should be suspended! Some surgeries I have knowledge of, have left some very disfiguring after effects, that in my opinion should never have happened. .

Re: Titanium clips used during prostatectomy surgery?

Ron: Since you did get some reply to your question about metal clips (some being non metalic..Titanium...) but so far no info about what other metal sutures would bother the MRI, I wonder why this is such a concern? What is supposed to happen if you did have a metal suture that caused some disaster? What other metal coatings have been used?As someone said they were not aware of metal sutures until the MRI was taken. Was that some sort of neglectful response in not having the technician ascertain whether you had these things or perhaps you did not know and they proceded anyway? I can only suppose there is no way other than YOU telling the tech/md if you have clips?Thirty some years ago I underwent an exploratory surgery for gallbladder distress and was opened from the sternum down to the pelvic area. I was never told at that time metal clips were used in the extraction of the gallbladder, or for closing anything else.So like someone said, and I said on the pre op MRI that I had no metal clips. But after having the MRI the tech said (and the report noted) surgical clips from a prior gallbladder operation were there!Go figure. But perhaps someone will broaden your question as to the use of metal staples vs silk or other suture procedures where anyone should be informed where future medical procedures required this info.Good hunting. Bill. -- In ProstateCancerSupport , "rkushnier" wrote:>> Is there a doctor in the house?> > One of the disadvantages I listed for seed therapy was the fact that > the radioactive seeds have a metal coating and therefore, once the > seeds are implanted, the patient gave up any future use of MRI > diagnostics (No metal can be on, or inside the patient due to the > high magnetic fields generated by the MRI machine).> > However, an interesting discussion occurred at my last Man-to-Man > Prostate Support Group meeting. It seems that if the seeds are made > of titanium, which is a non-magnetic metal, MRI can still be used. > Even more interesting to me, since I had a radical prostatectomy, is > the fact that one of the members in the group had an x-ray after his > prostatectomy and he was "full" of titanium surgical clips. This was > the first I heard that metal was left behind as part of the procedure.> > Can anyone out there confirm this to be true?> > Ron>

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[Guest guest]

The key word is "magnetic". Because MRI uses very strong magnetic waves at a very high radio frequency, any objects that are magnetic that are in the body will be displaced. Also, any metallic material, even though non-magnetic in property, like copper, will block or displace electromagnetic waves. Also, some non-magnetic metallic material will tend to heat up in the presence of electromagnetic waves (like eddy currents) and this can pose possible danger.

If there are any MRI technicians in the group, their review and correction of the above and below will be gratefully appreciated.

Louis. . .

[ProstateCancerSupp ort] Re: Titanium clips used during prostatectomy surgery?

Ron: Since you did get some reply to your question about metal clips (some being non metalic..Titanium. ..) but so far no info about what other metal sutures would bother the MRI, I wonder why this is such a concern? What is supposed to happen if you did have a metal suture that caused some disaster? What other metal coatings have been used?As someone said they were not aware of metal sutures until the MRI was taken. Was that some sort of neglectful response in not having the technician ascertain whether you had these things or perhaps you did not know and they proceded anyway? I can only suppose there is no way other than YOU telling the tech/md if you have clips?Thirty some years ago I underwent an exploratory surgery for gallbladder distress and was opened from the sternum down to the pelvic area. I was never told at that time metal clips were used in the extraction of the gallbladder,

or for closing anything else.So like someone said, and I said on the pre op MRI that I had no metal clips. But after having the MRI the tech said (and the report noted) surgical clips from a prior gallbladder operation were there!Go figure. But perhaps someone will broaden your question as to the use of metal staples vs silk or other suture procedures where anyone should be informed where future medical procedures required this info.Good hunting. Bill. -- In ProstateCancerSuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com, "rkushnier" <rkushnier@. ..> wrote:>> Is there a doctor in the house?> > One of the disadvantages I listed for seed therapy was the fact that > the radioactive seeds have a metal coating and therefore, once the > seeds

are implanted, the patient gave up any future use of MRI > diagnostics (No metal can be on, or inside the patient due to the > high magnetic fields generated by the MRI machine).> > However, an interesting discussion occurred at my last Man-to-Man > Prostate Support Group meeting. It seems that if the seeds are made > of titanium, which is a non-magnetic metal, MRI can still be used. > Even more interesting to me, since I had a radical prostatectomy, is > the fact that one of the members in the group had an x-ray after his > prostatectomy and he was "full" of titanium surgical clips. This was > the first I heard that metal was left behind as part of the procedure.> > Can anyone out there confirm this to be true?> > Ron>