Re: Dying because of prostate cancer

[Guest guest]

Thanks Terry- I hate to think of death- but I know that it will

happen to me sooner than later. I am 83. I don't think anyone

in my family, except for my grandmother, ever lived this long.

So I am very fortunate.

When I lived near Los Angeles, there were several support

groups. I joined them all and go to know so many men. And

women. I attended a whole lot of funerals. So sad.

Dave always had a joke to tell. So at his memorial service

several of his friends got up and repeated some of Dave's

stories.

Dave was Jewish so he loved jokes about religion. One that

he told was about a priest and a rabbi seated next to each

other on a plane flight. The attendant brought them some

sandwiches. The rabbi looked at his and said, "Miss, I am

sorry but I can't eat this ham sandwich."

She said, "Oh dear, I will bring you something else."

When she left the priest nudged the rabbi and said,

"Have you ever tried ham?"

The rabbi said, "Yes, I have tried it."

He then nudged priest and asked, "Have you ever tried

sex?"

The priest said, "Well, before I was ordained, I did try it

a few times".

The rabbi said, "It's a lot better than ham isn't it"

Dave would have been proud of his memorial service.

Aubrey

, a good old friend of mine used to shock people by saying that hewanted his ashes scattered under a beautiful jacaranda tree on the golfcourse where he was Club Secretary. "But," he would caution, "Make sure youknow which way the wind is blowing. I've never been out of bounds on thathole."I know that many are also uneasy when my darling wife Anthea and I talkabout death and dying. Our ideal death would be to have an excellent meal inone of those sidewalk cafes in Rome - near the Trevi Fountain perhaps - tokeel over as we sipped the last of the wine and for the restaurateur to findthat we didn't have enough to pay for the meal, having spent every lastrazoo on living.So, with that background, perhaps I am not typical in my outlook. I guess itwould be somewhat of a surprise if I was, but I do believe that it ishealthy to contemplate our end, and to discuss what fears we might have.Death and dying is the elephant in the room as far as prostate cancer isconcerned. It is very rarely even mentioned except as a dire warning of theawful death that awaits those who do not take immediate action to deal withtheir diagnosis.Some prostate cancer deaths can indeed be awful and I don't want to makelight of that, especially for people who have experienced the pain of losinga loved one - father, husband, partner or son. Old timers may recall someyears back the harrowing blow by blow description of the last days of a manin Ireland, described by his loving wife Jan - that was on another List,long gone unfortunately so the account cannot be read in Archives. There areother well told tales of death and dying - one of the most visitedindividual pages on my Yana site is Alan Bacon's, written by his widow andavailable at http://www.yananow.net/Mentors/AlanB.htm ; Young alsovividly told of the three years plus that passed from his diagnosis to hisdeath - you can read that athttp://www.phoenix5.org/essaysry/menuryessays.html while Ric Masten stilldetails his long battle - nine years and counting - with terminal disease athttp://www.ric-masten.net/Prostate.Series.html These men battled the pain of the disease that had metastasised to the bone,but this is not the only route which the disease takes, in fact it occurs ina minority of cases, according Jan, the lady I mentioned above and Dr Myers. In those cases where it does occur, Dr Glode hasthis to say at at this URL http://tinyurl.com/2rmplc : <snip> It is highlyunusual to have a patient in whom pain cannot be well controlled withradiation, opiates, NSAIDs and attentive care. <snip> I cannot quote any studies to support these statements, but they do jellwith my personal experiences. , my old pal I mentioned above, Mikeanother old pal and Reg, a colleague of mine from work all died of prostatecancer within 18 months of my diagnosis. and Reg and I went fishing inthe Zambezi Valley three months before Reg died and twelve months before went. Reg was on hormone therapy at that stage and was suffering badlyfrom hot flashes - no surprise since the ambient temperature was about 40C -say 104F - but a bit of river water poured over him and some well chilledbeers cooled him down. We caught fish, yarned about the good old times anddespite the shadow of death that hovered over both of them, we had a greattime.Mike lived in Cape Town, where we lived at the time. He had been diagnosedabout three years before me. He didn't know anything about his diagnosis,but clearly it was late stage when it was diagnosed because he had anorchidectomy and then went onto what his widow refers to as 'female hormonedrugs'- presumably some kind of estrogen therapy. He developed osteoporosisand broke a leg, some ribs and eventually his spine was so fragile that hehad to wear a cervical collar. But none of this stopped him doing severalthings that he had planned to do all his life, but was too busy to do. Thechief of these was to visit France, the Loire Valley in particular, on anextended wine tasting tour - he was a vintner by trade. A little over six weeks before he died, we had dinner with him at hisfavourite restaurant. As ever he was bubbly and bright and had us in fits oflaughter describing the problems he had at a recent wine tasting in gettingfull glasses which he needed to taste the wine - he couldn't tilt his headback far enough to sip from a normal tasting glass because of his cervicalcollar.Shortly after that he was admitted to the hospice, where I visited him on afrequent and regular basis. The staff of the hospice were kindnesspersonified and although Mike was more and more heavily sedated, he wouldslip in and out of consciousness, sometimes chatting about old times,sometimes away with the fairies. I wasn't with him when he died, but hisbrother was and he said he just slipped away. That was four months after mydiagnosis.I wouldn't mind going like that. I know it can't be guaranteed, but in themeantime, I'm living my life to the full, making the most of every day.All the bestTerry Herbert I have no medical qualifications but I was diagnosed in '96: and havelearned a bit since then. My sites are at www.yananow.net and www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.zaDr "Snuffy" Myers : "As a physician, I am painfully aware that mostof the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made withinadequate data"-----Original Message-----

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[Guest guest]

Good question. I would be interested in what others did, thought or

have to say too. Wanting to think positively, but prepair for the

potential (and unknown) worse; I paid my bills and pre-paid for my

medical procedures.

I drew up a will, a living will, a power of attorney and a do not

resuscitate order. I told my family and family of heart I loved

them and would come back if I had any say in it, but that if I

didn't, to please let me go in peace.

Physically, I did what ever I could in the way of running, eating

properly and doing kegels. I also stayed busy by doing research and

gardened outside.

I tried to minimize my fear and anger. I remember my mind wouldn't

shut off, often I was stuck repeating thought processes as if in a

do-loop or touch and go holding pattern.

Thinking back now, I wish I would have asked my Doc's to see if I

was a candidate for a short term Rx for anti-depressants.

Mick -- Abilene, TX

PS: This might sound negative to some, but I didn't buy tires for

my truck or do my annual eye and dental exams until after I returned

from surgery...

>

> A question was recently posed to me in a personal email

questioning if there have ever been exchanges discussing just what

occurs when men are unable to arrest their prostate cancer and their

advanced stage and metastases lead to their demise. He remarked

that whenever he brings this topic up at support group meetings, it

is brushed aside and no one wants to talk about it. As he made

note, we discuss every other area of prostate cancer from prevention

to the variety of treatment, even to the treatment of advanced and

metastasized disease. But we make little, if any, mention on what

the patient can expect and prepare for when all treatment options

fail. I expect this is a normal, human reaction to not want to

address the issue of dying because of prostate cancer. Yet, there

is an importance to this topic, and that is the awareness that if

we, as patients, choose to put off treatment and rather make our

option one of denial to the importance of early attention to our

insidious disease, there can, and more likely will, be very

unfortunate complications that could result in our early demise.

>

> I provided this gentleman my observation of a personal friend who

had been an important part of our Us TOO support group chapter

leadership whose cancer became extremely aggressive during a two

year span when he had missed just one annual PSA and DRE check. In

what would be considered a short time span, the aggressiveness of

his disease developed to a Gleason 5+4/9 with metastases having

already occurred on diagnosis. He had been checked annually but

missed just one year! Complications were numerous, quality of life

became of little concern because his primary concern became life

itself. From what I witnessed and from what he described to me, the

effects of his cancer were not pleasant. He said he wished he could

communicate to men the absolute importance of annual testing for

prostate cancer and serve as a reminder of what can occur when men

procrastinate when experiencing urinary problems and miss even one

annual check. His explanation to me was graphic and honest and all

the while concerned about those following in his/our journey. And

it was his demise that served as an impetus to my eventual advocacy

to help others.

>

> I open this topic for discussion on behalf of the patient who

addressed this concern to me and who wishes to remain anonymous. It

may be unpleasant to some, but important to others.

>

> (Chuck) Maack

> Prostate Cancer Advocate

> Bio: http://www.ustoowichita.org/leaders.cfm?content=bio & id=1

> Email: maack1@...

>

[Guest guest]

:-)

>

>

>

> Thanks Terry- I hate to think of death- but I know that it will

> happen to me sooner than later. I am 83. I don't think anyone

> in my family, except for my grandmother, ever lived this long.

> So I am very fortunate.

>

> When I lived near Los Angeles, there were several support

> groups. I joined them all and go to know so many men. And

> women. I attended a whole lot of funerals. So sad.

>

> Dave always had a joke to tell. So at his memorial service

> several of his friends got up and repeated some of Dave's

> stories.

>

> Dave was Jewish so he loved jokes about religion. One that

> he told was about a priest and a rabbi seated next to each

> other on a plane flight. The attendant brought them some

> sandwiches. The rabbi looked at his and said, " Miss, I am

> sorry but I can't eat this ham sandwich. "

>

> She said, " Oh dear, I will bring you something else. "

>

> When she left the priest nudged the rabbi and said,

> " Have you ever tried ham? "

>

> The rabbi said, " Yes, I have tried it. "

>

> He then nudged priest and asked, " Have you ever tried

> sex? "

>

> The priest said, " Well, before I was ordained, I did try it

> a few times " .

>

> The rabbi said, " It's a lot better than ham isn't it "

>

> Dave would have been proud of his memorial service.

>

> Aubrey

>

> In a message dated 12/13/2007 11:06:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> ghenesh_49@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> , a good old friend of mine used to shock people by saying

that he

> wanted his ashes scattered under a beautiful jacaranda tree on the

golf

> course where he was Club Secretary. " But, " he would caution, " Make

sure you

> know which way the wind is blowing. I've never been out of bounds

on that

> hole. "

>

> I know that many are also uneasy when my darling wife Anthea and I

talk

> about death and dying. Our ideal death would be to have an

excellent meal in

> one of those sidewalk cafes in Rome - near the Trevi Fountain

perhaps - to

> keel over as we sipped the last of the wine and for the

restaurateur to find

> that we didn't have enough to pay for the meal, having spent every

last

> razoo on living.

>

> So, with that background, perhaps I am not typical in my outlook.

I guess it

> would be somewhat of a surprise if I was, but I do believe that it

is

> healthy to contemplate our end, and to discuss what fears we might

have.

> Death and dying is the elephant in the room as far as prostate

cancer is

> concerned. It is very rarely even mentioned except as a dire

warning of the

> awful death that awaits those who do not take immediate action to

deal with

> their diagnosis.

>

> Some prostate cancer deaths can indeed be awful and I don't want

to make

> light of that, especially for people who have experienced the pain

of losing

> a loved one - father, husband, partner or son. Old timers may

recall some

> years back the harrowing blow by blow description of the last days

of a man

> in Ireland, described by his loving wife Jan - that was on another

List,

> long gone unfortunately so the account cannot be read in Archives.

There are

> other well told tales of death and dying - one of the most visited

> individual pages on my Yana site is Alan Bacon's, written by his

widow and

> available at _http://www.yananow.http://www.yhttp://ww_

> (http://www.yananow.net/Mentors/AlanB.htm) ; Young also

> vividly told of the three years plus that passed from his

diagnosis to his

> death - you can read that at

> _http://www.phoenix5http://www.phohttp://www.phhttp_

> (http://www.phoenix5.org/essaysry/menuryessays.html) while Ric

Masten still

> details his long battle - nine years and counting - with terminal

disease at

> _http://www.ric-http://www.http://wwhttp://www._

> (http://www.ric-masten.net/Prostate.Series.html)

>

> These men battled the pain of the disease that had metastasised to

the bone,

> but this is not the only route which the disease takes, in fact it

occurs in

> a minority of cases, according Jan, the lady I mentioned above and

Dr

> Myers. In those cases where it does occur, Dr

Glode has

> this to say at at this URL _http://tinyurl.http://tin_

> (http://tinyurl.com/2rmplc) : <snip> It is highly

> unusual to have a patient in whom pain cannot be well controlled

with

> radiation, opiates, NSAIDs and attentive care. <snip>

>

> I cannot quote any studies to support these statements, but they

do jell

> with my personal experiences. , my old pal I mentioned above,

Mike

> another old pal and Reg, a colleague of mine from work all died of

prostate

> cancer within 18 months of my diagnosis. and Reg and I went

fishing in

> the Zambezi Valley three months before Reg died and twelve months

before

> went. Reg was on hormone therapy at that stage and was

suffering badly

> from hot flashes - no surprise since the ambient temperature was

about 40C -

> say 104F - but a bit of river water poured over him and some well

chilled

> beers cooled him down. We caught fish, yarned about the good old

times and

> despite the shadow of death that hovered over both of them, we had

a great

> time.

>

> Mike lived in Cape Town, where we lived at the time. He had been

diagnosed

> about three years before me. He didn't know anything about his

diagnosis,

> but clearly it was late stage when it was diagnosed because he had

an

> orchidectomy and then went onto what his widow refers to

as 'female hormone

> drugs'- presumably some kind of estrogen therapy. He developed

osteoporosis

> and broke a leg, some ribs and eventually his spine was so fragile

that he

> had to wear a cervical collar. But none of this stopped him doing

several

> things that he had planned to do all his life, but was too busy to

do. The

> chief of these was to visit France, the Loire Valley in

particular, on an

> extended wine tasting tour - he was a vintner by trade.

>

> A little over six weeks before he died, we had dinner with him at

his

> favourite restaurant. As ever he was bubbly and bright and had us

in fits of

> laughter describing the problems he had at a recent wine tasting

in getting

> full glasses which he needed to taste the wine - he couldn't tilt

his head

> back far enough to sip from a normal tasting glass because of his

cervical

> collar.

>

> Shortly after that he was admitted to the hospice, where I visited

him on a

> frequent and regular basis. The staff of the hospice were kindness

> personified and although Mike was more and more heavily sedated,

he would

> slip in and out of consciousness, sometimes chatting about old

times,

> sometimes away with the fairies. I wasn't with him when he died,

but his

> brother was and he said he just slipped away. That was four months

after my

> diagnosis.

>

> I wouldn't mind going like that. I know it can't be guaranteed,

but in the

> meantime, I'm living my life to the full, making the most of every

day.

>

> All the best

>

> Terry Herbert

> I have no medical qualifications but I was diagnosed in '96: and

have

> learned a bit since then.

> My sites are at www.yananow.My sites are at www.yananow.<WBMy sites

are atMy

> si

>

> Dr " Snuffy " Myers : " As a physician, I am painfully aware

that most

> of the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made

with

> inadequate data "

>

> -----Original Message-----

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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