Re: survivors of abuse and infidelity?

[Guest guest]

tr wrote:

>...this extreme emotion is wearing on everyone i feel

>worse that i can't " get a grip " . my brain won't stop and it's

>spiraling me into depression. any words of advice for self-calming and

>breaking these negative thoughts would be appreciated.

Coincidentally, I was talking a day or two ago with a long-time

friend who is a childhood abuse survivor (and psych system survivor).

She has the problem of being very easily triggered into all the

feelings related to the abuse. At the moment, something going on

where she works is triggering her, and even though she knows her

reactions are unnecessary in that situation, she hasn't been able to

get out of the emotional pit. She can't " get a grip, " can't achieve

the mental traction that would enable her to move on.

Reminds me of how I used to be with anger. Once I got angry, I had no

idea how to stop being angry.

What worked for me was realizing (more clearly than before) that the

emotional turmoil was not affecting anyone but me. And its effect on

me was entirely harmful, physically as well as otherwise. That was

the first step. I was motivated to figure out what would work to help

me stop hurting myself (by staying angry beyond the point where the

anger had any utility).

What worked for me was self-administered " cognitive therapy " (I'd

never heard of cognitive therapy until some years later). Basically,

talking myself out of it. Articulating my understanding so that the

understanding overcame the emotional reaction.

That doesn't work for everybody (though it may be worth a try). For

some people, I think it works better to have a physical outlet. Some

children, for example, can learn to recognize an emotional trap

(being stuck in an emotion) and switch from " business as usual " to

some form of activity that re-focuses them effectively. For some,

that may be intense immersion in a favored " hobby " (online

world/game, studying a perseveration, painting, whatever). For

others, what works is intense and relatively " mindless " physical

activity -- bouncing, running, biking, smashing things (in a safe

environment).

When the emotion has a compulsive element, the " switch " would have to

be done again and again and again, I suppose, until the compulsion

gradually loses its grip.

I'll be interested to see what others have to offer on this topic.

Jane

[Guest guest]

Hi tr,

This must be really tough for you. On an intellectual level, you know what is

going on, but are unable to follow through with the 'should' and 'should not's'

that you keep on hearing. I sure understand this sort of dilemna.

One thing I know, is that the more jealous and the more you try to get closer to

your partner, the more it will drive him away. Relationships are often like

that, as one person moves closer, the other pulls away. In fact, even in any

one given relationship, this can switch around several times, with one or the

other being the 'puller' or the 'pullee'.

So, whatever you are 'feeling', you must absolutely give your partner the

freedom he needs. If it feels like it's playing a game, it isn't really. It's

a 'behaviour' that you need to practice, even if your feelings aren't in line

with it. Sooner or later, your feelings might even catch up with your

behaviour.

That being said, you really need someone outside your relationship to talk to.

I know it's hard, the more 'threatened' you feel (whether rational or not), the

more jealous you will feel too. But it's important to be able to discuss it

with someone else other than him.

If you want, I can chat with you more offlist. This is something I wrote

(unedited) a couple of years ago. I know what helped me out of that situation.

This was when I was undiagnosed. The point isn't about attention here, it's

just to let you know I've been in many desperate situations before. I wrote

this while I was studying for my M.Div. - I just ran across it a few minutes ago

while looking for a friends resume! Point here too, that people can be

depressed and messed up and also functioning and studying etc. at the same time.

I am pretty sure that the 'screw up' and no-one told me, was about my social

behaviour when, under stress, my 'autism' was severely acting up in a church

community.

Quote:

7/24/04

and who i am was a screw up

a complete and utter screw up

and i wanted people to see that,

that's why i was screwing up, that was me

screwed up

but no-one told me

no one explained

everyone hid their eyes from me

everyone avoided me

i was condemned and shamed

not helped and encouraged.

if someone is seeking attention it is because they

NEED ATTENTION

maybe this is all screwed up too

all i know was it seemed i had things clear,

my thinking

my heart

my will

my emotions

and all i am is confused again,

completely and utterly confused.

my mind is muddled

my heart is broken

my will is confused

and my emotions are back in control of me.

I really hope that there is something that I can do to help you get clear of the

time that you are facing at the moment.

jo

survivors of abuse and infidelity?

hi all

have any of you ever dealt with love obsessions, eithere having them

yourself or being subjected to them or WORSE, having your partner

subjected to them? i am a survivor of multiple kids of abuse and

addiction had a very unstable childhood and a late ASD diagnosis.

Things just piled up on me and i couldn't articulate or get help.NOw

as i understand everythign that happened and how it affected me i am

trying to put my life together and rebuild the trust i had before my

parents abandoned me at age 8

now in midlife i am dealing with extreme jealousy that is making me

sick, my partner of 10 years is the crush object of a very insistent

woman that he works with. She used to be an autism researcher, how

cute! He says there is nothing going on and i believe him, but i react

violently to any mention of her and can't seem to stop obsessing about

it. Autism and my CAPD-related communication problems make sitting

down for a talk very hard. We do it and he's trying very hard to

understand, but this extreme emotion is wearing on everyone i feel

worse that i can't " get a grip " . my brain won't stop and it's

spiraling me into depression. any words of advice for self-calming and

breaking these negative thoughts would be appreciated. i am afraid i

might lose it and go smash up her car or something with a

sledgehammer, even though i know it's completely out of line and

uncalled for. i do not have counseling services available, i am poor

and rural.

-------

trk

[Guest guest]

> have any of you ever dealt with love obsessions, eithere having them

> yourself or being subjected to them or WORSE, having your partner

> subjected to them?

Hi TR -

I grew up thinking that fidelity was an essential component of

loyalty. Looking back, however, I didn't feel that way when my

partners wandered, but rather felt a sense of loyalty in that

she would be with me because she wanted to be. Generally there

is no connection because the nature of an intimate relationship

is that the person will " be there for you " to the extent that

the relations calls for that.

As a practical matter, it doesn't make a difference if you or

your partner, for example, spend the night in Eugene alone or

with someone. You know you'll be back and you know your partner

will be back. And if that weren't the case, the relationship

wouldn't work out anyway and the other person wouldn't be the

reason.

So three things can happen:

1. he doesn't find this woman interesting from a sexual

standpoint.

2. he finds her interesting but prefers living with you

3. he finds her interesting to the extent that he would rather

move that van to her house on a permament basis.

#1 and #3 are no-brainers. He'll ultimately make his choice,

just as you'd ultimately make your choice in similar

circumstances. In either case, you end up with either a van or

a very cool trailer.

It's #2 that is the biggie. If she were a diesel motor home,

you wouldn't care. If this was his Oregon Agricultural Society

Official Product Testing and Certification group, your only

concern would be, " Can I come with you sometimes? " In this

case, it's an autism researcher. (Interesting coincidence...

but I'm sure my interest is a different person.) My point is

that it's all a point of view. If you look at it in terms of

the time you spend with your partner, it shouldn't make a

difference. If you look at it as your partner, your possession,

it becomes a problem.

On a more practical level, if (still taking #2), the woman

becomes interesting to him for what she is -- a potential

adventure. If he feels confined to not do this, but finds the

concept very interesting, you would be forcing him to decide.

More likely than not, this is just " interesting " and will fade

away; othewise you're really in situation #3 and it doesn't

matter anyway.

The mere fact that he may find this woman " interesting " does not

by itself mean that he is looking to leave. More to the point,

the opportunity to follow through with the fling doesn't imply

that he will care less for you or leave. It just means that

he'll be responding to that particular situation. At the end of

the day, you have to decide if it's important to you that he not

see this person and why it matters.

- s

[Guest guest]

well i want to thank stans computer and jane for good advice. Stan you

must know us, you mentioned details that i didn't in the original

post. ????

I agree; there is no way you can make someone stay where they don't

want to be, and why WOULD you anyway? Illogical and not conducive to

love and respect.

This whole situation (remember the overactive imagination thread?) was

an internal wakeup call to deal with past issues which i had

effectively stuffed into an amorphous spiritual blockage so huge i

took it for granted. until this..... so yeah, the issue of what HE

does is secondary to the results of trauma i finally had to face, i

don't trust heterosexual men.

BTW things are good and clear at this time, we had a huge painstaking

discussion about trust and boundaries and what is OK and what is not

within this relationship.

I feel understood and calm now because i communicated the way i do

best, in text, by writing and editing over the course of a day to

refine the message to alignment with my true feelings. I cannot speak

about stressful things in face-time real-time, verbalization doesn't

work that fast and i get frustrated and overwhelmed and go mute and

rage-filled. Very ineffective.

So i stated what i needed, in a way i felt confident and let the

energy fall where it would. Just getting it all out in writing defused

the anger quite a bit. Processing continues.

Bottom line, love must include trust. Trust must be earned when

dealing with abuse survivors. Partners of abuse survivors must be

alert to inadvertent " wound-salting " . You wouldn't take a recovering

alcoholic to a beer festival, and it's kindest not expose someone

recovering from abuse, infidelity and trust issues to a potential

love-triangle situation.

One slip of trust is usually fatal to the relationship. His choice.

Logic is not applicable to emotion. Factual statements are best:

" You will have no physical contact of any kind with Ms. XX while you

are in an intimate committed relationship with me, or i will terminate

our professional and personal relationship quickly and permanently in

the interest of my mental health. "

I stood up for what i needed and i got it. I was prepared not to, but

the need for honesty and clear boundaries outweighed the fear.

It's a new feeling.

Lots of people go through these same tired scenarios, listen to the

lyrics of pop music. The communication difficulties of autism just

seem to make it even more surreal.

---

trk

[Guest guest]

tr wrote:

>I stood up for what i needed and i got it. I was prepared not to, but

>the need for honesty and clear boundaries outweighed the fear.

>It's a new feeling.

Good for you!

Jane

[Guest guest]

So, if you stood up for what you wanted and you got it, what was it that you

wanted? Did you want him to stop seeing this other woman, or did you want to

terminate the relationship?

>

> well i want to thank stans computer and jane for good advice. Stan you

> must know us, you mentioned details that i didn't in the original

> post. ????

> I agree; there is no way you can make someone stay where they don't

> want to be, and why WOULD you anyway? Illogical and not conducive to

> love and respect.

> This whole situation (remember the overactive imagination thread?) was

> an internal wakeup call to deal with past issues which i had

> effectively stuffed into an amorphous spiritual blockage so huge i

> took it for granted. until this..... so yeah, the issue of what HE

> does is secondary to the results of trauma i finally had to face, i

> don't trust heterosexual men.

>

> BTW things are good and clear at this time, we had a huge painstaking

> discussion about trust and boundaries and what is OK and what is not

> within this relationship.

>

> I feel understood and calm now because i communicated the way i do

> best, in text, by writing and editing over the course of a day to

> refine the message to alignment with my true feelings. I cannot speak

> about stressful things in face-time real-time, verbalization doesn't

> work that fast and i get frustrated and overwhelmed and go mute and

> rage-filled. Very ineffective.

>

> So i stated what i needed, in a way i felt confident and let the

> energy fall where it would. Just getting it all out in writing defused

> the anger quite a bit. Processing continues.

>

> Bottom line, love must include trust. Trust must be earned when

> dealing with abuse survivors. Partners of abuse survivors must be

> alert to inadvertent " wound-salting " . You wouldn't take a recovering

> alcoholic to a beer festival, and it's kindest not expose someone

> recovering from abuse, infidelity and trust issues to a potential

> love-triangle situation.

> One slip of trust is usually fatal to the relationship. His choice.

>

> Logic is not applicable to emotion. Factual statements are best:

> " You will have no physical contact of any kind with Ms. XX while you

> are in an intimate committed relationship with me, or i will terminate

> our professional and personal relationship quickly and permanently in

> the interest of my mental health. "

> I stood up for what i needed and i got it. I was prepared not to, but

> the need for honesty and clear boundaries outweighed the fear.

> It's a new feeling.

>

> Lots of people go through these same tired scenarios, listen to the

> lyrics of pop music. The communication difficulties of autism just

> seem to make it even more surreal.

>

> ---

> trk

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>So, if you stood up for what you wanted and you got it, what was it

that you

>wanted? Did you want him to stop seeing this other woman, or did

you want to

>terminate the relationship?

a. i wanted clearly defined, mutually agreed upon boundaries around

physical contact and activities/time spent with outside people. I

think every relationship should have those guidelines in place

*before* it becomes an issue. Points of contention and possible

misunderstanding are different for everyone, and are subject to

mutually agreed upon change at future times. Building trust around

that idea wound up being the main point of the whole freakout episode.

b. i wanted him to severely curtail contact with this specific person

( they have one more job to do together later this summer) and to

understand and respect why i was asking for that.

He chose to respect my wishes and also thanked me for enlightening

him on the emotional mechanics of obsessive crush, he had never

experienced that from either side, he;s not prone to that kind of

thinking himself at all. I doubt this woman is a bunny boiler, but

she's not what i would call emotionally stable. My partner and i read

a lot of stuff together online this week, and he now recognizes the

clearly obsessive tendencies in all aspects of this other person's

life and how feeding that is unhealthy for everyone involved. All-

consuming special interests are not inherently bad unless they

involve someone unavailable, the necessary escalation of the

obsession to keep the " high " going inevitably becomes intrusive,

leading to either consumation or more likely rejection, with the

inevitable depression and emotional breakdown. Continued " doses " of

the presence of the obsession can keep the hope-fire burning

sometimes for years, decades even. Cold turkey is best. I feel sorry

for this crusher, because i WAS one like that, as are many people

with abandonment issues. Takes one to know one, and that kind of one

is ultimately a big fat ZERO.

enough of that.

------trk-------

[Guest guest]

> well i want to thank stans computer and jane for good advice. Stan you

> must know us, you mentioned details that i didn't in the original

> post. ????

We met at Autreat. I'm not sure if that's where I saw the

photos of the trailer restoration, or if they were on-line. I

used to live on the west coast, and flew into Florence a few

times. I only was in Mapletown once, but for me it was just a

waypoint driving a truck to the coast. With 26,000 lbs plus a

flatbed car trailer, my attention was focused on the fact that I

was past that hill out of Eugene.

- s