Ron, Jim, , Gene...

[Guest guest]

I need a male perspective. My husband appears to be going for 'martyr of the

year', and I don't understand. I'm hoping you all might.

He is forever giving me time off from . He takes out with him walking

the dog, going to the store, going away for the weekend. He sends me out by

myself. He insists that I need time off. And it's true; I do.

He ALSO admits that he needs time off, but can only imagine getting it if

and I go away for the weekend. It's hard for me to do that; I really don't like

taking on trips by myself, no matter how short the drive. (my parents are

1.5 hours away.)

So I encourage him to do things alone, or at least without us. He plays

badminton Thursday nights, he goes out with his friends whenever the opportunity

comes up (about once a month), etc. But he cannot just leave the house with me

and still in it!

Last night, he brought this up during an argument. So today he came home and

wanted to go to a sporting goods store in a nearby town. He wanted us all to

go. I said, " Marc, go BY YOURSELF! Have some time on your own! " Half an hour

later, after we all watched Angry Beavers on TV, he stood up and said, " , do

wanna go for a ride in the car? " I nearly *screamed*! When I asked him why he

wasn't going alone, he said, " Well, you could use a break from him... " " SO

COULD YOU!!!! "

Gentlemen, do you do this? Do you know why HE does this? And can you tell me

what I can do to encourage him to take more time for himself??? The man NEEDS

it!

Thanks,

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

Jacqiue,

There are so many variables in your questions they may be too numerous to

mention.

Yes, it could be he is suffering from the " martyr " syndrome. However, I tend

to cringe when the word martyr is used.

Could we not all be accused of trying to be martrys in one area of our life

or another?

Am I a martyr because I get up ealier than everyone else most mornings to get

ready for work...a job I really would rather not be doing? Or am I just

doing what needs to be done?

Am I a martyr when I come home from a 10-12 hour day and do the dishes when I

don't really want too? How about when Abbie asks me to color with her when I

really want to just sit and read a book alone? Or when Alec wants me to show

him how to shoot a basketball?

Now lets take this further.....

Am I a martyr when I get home and Terry has " the look " (I've posted of this

before) and I offer her some respite?

My personal feeling about the the word martyr? It is a cynical term used in

the west to accuse others who show love and commitment through their actions,

by others who either don't feel worthy of these gifts of action or somehow

feel resentful for they may be commited to reciprocate.

Now, please don't take offense because I truly am not trying to offend

ANYONE.

With that said, YES, I do these things you speak of. I do things for the

family when I am dead tired and don't want to. I tell Terry to go take time

off even though I come home hot and sweaty. I increased my work load to get

her some help 3 evenings a week.

I take the kids for bike rides, cook dinner, sometimes help with laundry,

take the kids to the park to let Terry have 2-3 hours alone.

I do these things because that's what I signed up for. I do these things

because I love my family. I do these things because for about 20 years I did

nothing but screw up my life and made a pact with whatever God is out there,

that if I ever got out of the situation I had gotten myself into and was able

to live a somewhat " normal " life and have a family, I'd do my best.

Yes, I fall in the class of " martyr " at times for doing these things. My

self centeredness that sometimes poisons my insides yells that I should have

some kind of fucking parade or portait hung of me in the city square. And

sometimes I demand time to myself...after all, look at all I've done.

And yes, sometimes Terry tells me to take time off and I don't. And

sometimes I do.

I don't know Marc. I don't know his motivations.

Perhaps since is doing so well, he is more motivated to do more....maybe

he's always been like this. Maybe he remembers the arguements and feels he

needs to do these things out of guilt. And maybe, just maybe he does these

things cuz he loves you more than life itself.

I know this about me. Sometimes I feel that I don't deserve any

better....that I should be punished for something. So when people are nice

to me, when they go out of their way to be kind my mind wonders what they

want...that is the poison in my mind. That is a bad day.

On a good day, I realize that Terry does things for me cuz she loves

me....cuz she wants to make my life a bit easier.

I've had a problem all my life accepting gifts from people. About 10 years

ago, a lady told me I need to change that. She asked me, " What right do you

have to deny someone else the pleasure in helping you or giving something to

you...of just being nice to you? What right do you have to not allow someone

the good feeling of being helpful to someone they care about? "

My answer was none.

Today, I accept the gifts people bestow on me...for the most

part....regardless of how menial the gift may be and regardless of if I think

I deserve them. I try not to figure out their motivations...I just let it

happen. This makes life a lot more easier to live. All of a sudden I am not

trying to figure out why someone is doing something. Quite frankly, it is

none of my business.

If Marc doesn't accept the time off, that is his stuff....not yours. Your

stuff was to offer. Keep offering when you feel the need. And keep

accepting when it is offered....in the end, it will all work out.

This has been what I've learned in the last 43 years anyway.

Ron...who really didn't mean to get on a soapbox

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/1/02 10:32:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, Ron writes:

> This has been what I've learned in the last 43 years anyway.

>

> Ron...who really didn't mean to get on a soapbox

>

>

>

>

Ron, you sound so much like Jim, it's strange.

He comes home and works his tail off for me.

He takes over parent duty when he comes home.

He is the total dad. He is a wonder, he is mine! LOL

When he broke and dislocated his ankle a few years

ago, I thrived on caring for him, and then he wanted to

go back to work. I wanted to take care of him, he won.

I got him a wheelchair so I could take him out. I was

having back trouble at the time but strangely, lifting

the thing out of the trunk never aggravated or hurt, and

I got better real fast.

Then for 9 months he was out of work last year. You

know, we hardly ever fought about anything. We both

just took care of each other. I will miss that too.

He has the same sense about responsibility for his

family that you are talking about. He probably learned

it from his father. Right now, he is down in the garage

repairing everyone's bicycles in the neighborhood.

I asked if he did mine, (my tire has a slow leak) and

he said, " Oh, I guess I should, huh? "

Considering we ride almost every day together, yeah.

Now he is going to ride my bike to the gas station

to fill the tire. He didn't have enough air in his refill

tank.

I don't understand it too much, but I am willing to just

let it be now. I think that is what love is about.

Barb

(43) SAHM to Aislynn (eyes-lin) 13 Autism-Fully Included

Kelsey 10 ADD Blond bimbo and all around wise guy

Jim 43-Husband Thinks he's funnier than me - but he's not

[Guest guest]

Ha! I do the same thing!

I think, for me at least, it's a pretty simple, primitive, response.

I am ridiculously old-fashioned sometimes, and ridiculously

alpha sometimes.

There's some kind of inner drive to do the hardest work that

needs to be done *by myself* with no help. I can carry it. No, no, I

don't need help. It's not heavy, it's just awkward. I got it, just get

the door for me, huh?

We wen't shopping yesterday; all of us. 10 feet into the

department store, Syd threw himself on the floor and refused to

go anywhere. As I carried/dragged him through, he pulled things

off of the racks. Eurgh. But we really needed clothes for Clay, so I

persisted. Finally, I had enough. I told Crissy that I was going

outside with Syd and so she could shop with Clay for a

while, that I'd meet her out front. So I drove around the corner to

Babies R Us and, with holding one hand and with Syd

sitting on my shoulders (like trying to hold a rabid mountain lion

on your head), I stood in a 20-minute line to buy one of those

heavy-duty jogging strollers with a 3-point harness in it.

You should have seen the look on the wife's face when I re-

appeared with the super-stroller...along with my now red ears

and scratched face.

Point is: I could have taken them out to the car and driven

through a drive-through for snacks, listened to the Arthur CD,

taken the easy way out. But something inside DRIVES me to

tackle what I feel is the hard work that needs to be done.

I think it's the same thing that makes me suffer through playing

hockey, even though the plate and screws in my ankle makes it

almost unbearably painful sometimes.

Am I making sense?

I don't think he's going for martyr of the year, but in his situation, it

may be his way of competing in the World's Strongest Man

competition. Let him flex those biceps, if you know what I mean...

Not everyone can be Magnus Magnusson.

>

> I need a male perspective. My husband appears to be going

for 'martyr of the year', and I don't understand. I'm hoping you all

might.

>

> He is forever giving me time off from . He takes out

with him walking the dog, going to the store, going away for the

weekend. He sends me out by myself. He insists that I need

time off. And it's true; I do.

>

> He ALSO admits that he needs time off, but can only imagine

getting it if and I go away for the weekend. It's hard for me to

do that; I really don't like taking on trips by myself, no matter

how short the drive. (my parents are 1.5 hours away.)

>

> So I encourage him to do things alone, or at least without us.

He plays badminton Thursday nights, he goes out with his

friends whenever the opportunity comes up (about once a

month), etc. But he cannot just leave the house with me and

still in it!

>

> Last night, he brought this up during an argument. So today

he came home and wanted to go to a sporting goods store in a

nearby town. He wanted us all to go. I said, " Marc, go BY

YOURSELF! Have some time on your own! " Half an hour later,

after we all watched Angry Beavers on TV, he stood up and said,

" , do wanna go for a ride in the car? " I nearly *screamed*!

When I asked him why he wasn't going alone, he said, " Well, you

could use a break from him... " " SO COULD YOU!!!! "

>

> Gentlemen, do you do this? Do you know why HE does this?

And can you tell me what I can do to encourage him to take more

time for himself??? The man NEEDS it!

>

> Thanks,

> Jacquie

[Guest guest]

> Am I making sense?

>

> I don't think he's going for martyr of the year, but in his situation, it

> may be his way of competing in the World's Strongest Man

> competition. Let him flex those biceps, if you know what I mean...

>

> Not everyone can be Magnus Magnusson.

:

You make a lot of sense; oddly enough I do this somewhat also. Since I

don't get much help, I might as well, but sometimes I turn down offered help

knowing I won't get it usually anyway so why get soft....

Salli

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/1/02 7:08:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,

IBSourMouse@... writes:

> Ron, you sound so much like Jim, it's strange.

> He comes home and works his tail off for me.

> He takes over parent duty when he comes home.

> He is the total dad. He is a wonder, he is mine! LOL

>

> When he broke and dislocated his ankle a few years

> ago, I thrived on caring for him, and then he wanted to

> go back to work. I wanted to take care of him, he won.

> I got him a wheelchair so I could take him out. I was

> having back trouble at the time but strangely, lifting

> the thing out of the trunk never aggravated or hurt, and

> I got better real fast.

>

> Then for 9 months he was out of work last year. You

> know, we hardly ever fought about anything. We both

> just took care of each other. I will miss that too.

>

> He has the same sense about responsibility for his

> family that you are talking about. He probably learned

> it from his father. Right now, he is down in the garage

> repairing everyone's bicycles in the neighborhood.

> I asked if he did mine, (my tire has a slow leak) and

> he said, " Oh, I guess I should, huh? "

>

> Considering we ride almost every day together, yeah.

> Now he is going to ride my bike to the gas station

> to fill the tire. He didn't have enough air in his refill

> tank.

>

> I don't understand it too much, but I am willing to just

> let it be now. I think that is what love is about.

> Barb

>

>

Well, I think it is a bunch of stuff....I didn't have a dad to model after.

My sister still wonders to me out loud, " Where did you learn to be such a

good dad? "

I find that an uncomfortable compliment for some reason...I always feel there

is more I can do.

actually had a good look at this.

I believe, it goes back to the cave man days. Men, (excluding the sorry

mf's) have traditionally always been the rescuers...the knights if you will.

I think it might be in our genes. It is something we are born with.

Even with Sam and Abbie, I can see, (sometimes) Abbie crying and Sam will go

to her. Alec does the same.

We had an interesting discussion late summer about how men have been

emasculated by the so called, " women's movement. " Women wanted their equal

rights. I agree. However, it went overboard in my opinion. The result

being, men of the new generation, really didn't know how to act....didn't

know what to do. Do I rescue, leave it alone? Do I help or will helping or

taking the traditional masculine role cause a fight. There is a medium to

all of that.

I am a believer in men being men and women being women. With that said, I'm

not advocating getting rid of women carpenters, cops or professionals. What

I do advocate is allowing the more traditional roles to be just as acceptable

to society as women in the workplace are now. In short, leave the SAHM's and

the hard working dads alone.

I am also a great believer in the fact that men a great leaders and women are

great organizers. A terrific marriage.

Anyway...I better shut up

Ron

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/1/2002 2:14:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,

aaron@... writes:

> You should have seen the look on the wife's face when I re-

> appeared with the super-stroller...along with my now red ears

> and scratched face.

>

I wish my husband would do something like that instead of being such a jerk

whenever we have to take to the store at night. Last time she was

being so good only running threw the aisle laughing. He just got mad that

she wouldn't just sit in the cart. I wish I had a husband like you!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/1/02 10:32:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, Ron writes:

> I do these things because that's what I signed up for. I do these things

> because I love my family.

>

You do these things because you know what it is to be a man.

This is the way men are when they are mature.

These things convey strength.

I am of course speaking about you and all good fathers and husbands.

Men aren't used to being asked why we do things that are natural.

We prefer to just show it with actions.

~Jim

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/1/02 11:50:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, writes:

> even though the plate and screws in my ankle makes it

> almost unbearably painful sometimes.

>

>

Hey I got one of those! It's in my left ankle.

Mine doesn't hurt, (only a little when the weather changes).

~Jim

[Guest guest]

>He comes home and works his tail off for me. He takes

over parent duty when he comes home. He is the total

dad.<

Yup, that's Doug too.

Tuna

=====

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Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/2/02 10:42:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, vhunnius@...

writes:

> takes time for himself and plays hockey. What about Ron and Jim? Do

> you two do anything just for yourselves?

>

>

Your reading it....this is what I do....or read/watch a movie here at the

house. To tell the truth, I'm so beat after 10 hours of carpentry etc. I

wouldn't have the energy for hockey.

I did buy Terry and I a membership to the heath club for X-Mas and am really

going to try and do this on a regular basis...

But that's it.

I do get enjoyment by building and setting things up for the kids....Sam's

train table etc.

Ron

[Guest guest]

> > even though the plate and screws in my ankle makes it

> > almost unbearably painful sometimes.

> >

> >

>

> Hey I got one of those! It's in my left ankle.

> Mine doesn't hurt, (only a little when the weather changes).

> ~Jim

Hey, I think I've got you guys beat! A steel rod from knee to ankle, four

screws in both joints!

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

I understand what you guys have said, BUT...

takes time for himself and plays hockey. What about Ron and Jim? Do you

two do anything just for yourselves?

Marc does NOT. He knows he needs to; he feels resentful because he doesn't; and

he continues to sacrifice HIS time to ME.

I don't understand.

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

Jacquie when Terry and I were together he use to do the same thing. He came over

for New Years dinner and he said for me to go to a show. After 18 years you

think the guy would know that I have a broken tail bone and can not sit though a

movie. DAH

Lori

Re: Ron, Jim, , Gene...

I understand what you guys have said, BUT...

takes time for himself and plays hockey. What about Ron and Jim? Do

you two do anything just for yourselves?

Marc does NOT. He knows he needs to; he feels resentful because he doesn't;

and he continues to sacrifice HIS time to ME.

I don't understand.

Jacquie