Re: Vitamin and kidney stones

[Guest guest]

How do you all know what the crystals in our kids urine are? I have

noticed crystal, gelly type formations in my sons diaper and I

assumed that they were from the diaper.

>

> I understand that increasing your Vitamin D will normalize calcium

levels. I also just read that increased Vitamin D may cause kidney

stones. Our daughter already has crystals in her urine - they aren't

oxalate crystals but phosphate crystals. I've only been taking the

prescription D3 for a couple of days and I feel SO much better - more

energy and brightness. I want to give our daughter the D3 but I'm

concerned about the kidney stone risks or maybe that's

misinformation??

> in Houston mentioned that the thyroid tests for her husband,

I think, were normal while D was low. My tests showed the same thing.

I'm very pleased with the way I'm feeling so far and I was at an 18.

I wonder if this will be a life long supplement. If I reach 70 will I

have to continue on a lower dosage for life?

> Shari

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think you're seeing diaper " stuff " and absolutely not urinary crystals. The

crystals we are referring to are seen under a microscope and our urologist found

them. I think they have a lot to do with oxalates in the diet. Sometimes,

chelation can affect the formation or the release of crystals in the urine - I'm

not sure how that works. Owen knows so much about this. Anyway, I

definitely wouldn't worry that what you're seeing in your son's diaper are the

type of urinary crystals that we have been discussing. hope that helps.

Shari

Shari

Re: Vitamin and kidney stones

How do you all know what the crystals in our kids urine are? I have

noticed crystal, gelly type formations in my sons diaper and I

assumed that they were from the diaper.

>

> I understand that increasing your Vitamin D will normalize calcium

levels. I also just read that increased Vitamin D may cause kidney

stones. Our daughter already has crystals in her urine - they aren't

oxalate crystals but phosphate crystals. I've only been taking the

prescription D3 for a couple of days and I feel SO much better - more

energy and brightness. I want to give our daughter the D3 but I'm

concerned about the kidney stone risks or maybe that's

misinformation??

> in Houston mentioned that the thyroid tests for her husband,

I think, were normal while D was low. My tests showed the same thing.

I'm very pleased with the way I'm feeling so far and I was at an 18.

I wonder if this will be a life long supplement. If I reach 70 will I

have to continue on a lower dosage for life?

> Shari

>

>

[Guest guest]

Shari,

The way to keep the vitamin D from increasing the absorption of oxalate is

to take your calcium without D before meals, and then take the vitamin D

away from meals but with any fat type supplement you take, such as liquid

vitamin versions of E, A, D or K (the fat soluble vitamins), or with cod

liver oil, or omega 3 fatty acids, etc.

Actually, the fats themselves will form a soap with calcium and keep the

calcium from being absorbed, so it makes more sense all around to keep

these things separated from when you eat, but to take calcium with

food. Calcium also helps to zip up the tight junctions between cells to

close the leaky gut, but it won't do that if it is bound to oxalate or tied

up in fat. So you want to take enough calcium with meals to help close the

tight junctions, and for the quantity to be over and above what binds to

the fat in the meal, and high enough to bind the oxalate in the

meal. This doesn't take megadosing unless perhaps you are megadoxing on

oxalate. It is just a matter of WHEN you take the calcium and with what.

Just remember that our bodies are designed to make vitamin D from the sun

and store it in fat in our bodies, and then to release it as needed. That

is a different issue from eating. It was probably the dairy council that

got everybody into taking vitamin D with calcium because it DOES make you

absorb more of the calcium in the gut if taken at the same time. The

problem is that it also makes you absorb more oxalate later in the colon,

and that oxalate, once in blood and tissues, will start going after the

calcium in your body that is supposed to be doing other things. Not

good. There is no net gain.

80% of the calcium in the gut is not normally absorbed, and that is for a

good purpose. The calcium remaining in the gut binds the oxalate that is

in the gut either in food, or the oxalate that has been secreted by

intestinal cells that are trying to help the body detox from oxalate that

was in the blood. The calcium also closes the tight junctions by binding

to cadherins that are on either side of the tight junction, That keeps us

from absorbing oxalate and keeps us from developing food allergies that

might happen with the leaky gut.

On Trying_Low_Oxaates, we're finding oxalate must be associated with all

sorts of chronic diseases that are improving when oxalate in the diet is

reduced. Now we have people there with many conditions that have improved,

not only autism and kidney stones, but also things like carpal tunnel

syndrome, chronic bone and joint pain, celiac disease, fibromyalgia,

anxiety, cystic fibrosis, and its even changing things like stiffness, and

people's energy level, and motor skills, and sleep and on and on.

And as for the calcium phosphate crystals, the pH in the urine determines

which type of crystal will form. It is not just which anions are

there. Calcium oxalate is very stable in an acid environment.The following

suggestion was made in an old lab book I own. Oxalate crystals will show up

in acid urine. If you mix oxalate crystals with acetic acid (vinegar), the

crystal shouldn't dissolve. If you mix it with strong hydrochloric acid,

it should dissove but recrystalize when you add ammonia. If what is

crystallizing is instead phosphate crystals then they will crystalize in

alkaline urine, but will dissove in vinegar.

I think it is amazing that we have learned that a lot of time when people

are " dumping " that their urine pH will be very alkaline. Maybe this is a

way that the body protects itself from the oxalate crystallizing in urine

when there is a lot coming out at the same time.

Anyway, I hope this has been helpful.

At 11:57 AM 1/10/2009, you wrote:

>I understand that increasing your Vitamin D will normalize calcium levels.

>I also just read that increased Vitamin D may cause kidney stones. Our

>daughter already has crystals in her urine - they aren't oxalate crystals

>but phosphate crystals. I've only been taking the prescription D3 for a

>couple of days and I feel SO much better - more energy and brightness. I

>want to give our daughter the D3 but I'm concerned about the kidney stone

>risks or maybe that's misinformation??

> in Houston mentioned that the thyroid tests for her husband, I

>think, were normal while D was low. My tests showed the same thing. I'm

>very pleased with the way I'm feeling so far and I was at an 18. I wonder

>if this will be a life long supplement. If I reach 70 will I have to

>continue on a lower dosage for life?

>Shari

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much - it's very helpful.

Shari

Re: Vitamin and kidney stones

Shari,

The way to keep the vitamin D from increasing the absorption of oxalate is

to take your calcium without D before meals, and then take the vitamin D

away from meals but with any fat type supplement you take, such as liquid

vitamin versions of E, A, D or K (the fat soluble vitamins), or with cod

liver oil, or omega 3 fatty acids, etc.

Actually, the fats themselves will form a soap with calcium and keep the

calcium from being absorbed, so it makes more sense all around to keep

these things separated from when you eat, but to take calcium with

food. Calcium also helps to zip up the tight junctions between cells to

close the leaky gut, but it won't do that if it is bound to oxalate or tied

up in fat. So you want to take enough calcium with meals to help close the

tight junctions, and for the quantity to be over and above what binds to

the fat in the meal, and high enough to bind the oxalate in the

meal. This doesn't take megadosing unless perhaps you are megadoxing on

oxalate. It is just a matter of WHEN you take the calcium and with what.

Just remember that our bodies are designed to make vitamin D from the sun

and store it in fat in our bodies, and then to release it as needed. That

is a different issue from eating. It was probably the dairy council that

got everybody into taking vitamin D with calcium because it DOES make you

absorb more of the calcium in the gut if taken at the same time. The

problem is that it also makes you absorb more oxalate later in the colon,

and that oxalate, once in blood and tissues, will start going after the

calcium in your body that is supposed to be doing other things. Not

good. There is no net gain.

80% of the calcium in the gut is not normally absorbed, and that is for a

good purpose. The calcium remaining in the gut binds the oxalate that is

in the gut either in food, or the oxalate that has been secreted by

intestinal cells that are trying to help the body detox from oxalate that

was in the blood. The calcium also closes the tight junctions by binding

to cadherins that are on either side of the tight junction, That keeps us

from absorbing oxalate and keeps us from developing food allergies that

might happen with the leaky gut.

On Trying_Low_Oxaates, we're finding oxalate must be associated with all

sorts of chronic diseases that are improving when oxalate in the diet is

reduced. Now we have people there with many conditions that have improved,

not only autism and kidney stones, but also things like carpal tunnel

syndrome, chronic bone and joint pain, celiac disease, fibromyalgia,

anxiety, cystic fibrosis, and its even changing things like stiffness, and

people's energy level, and motor skills, and sleep and on and on.

And as for the calcium phosphate crystals, the pH in the urine determines

which type of crystal will form. It is not just which anions are

there. Calcium oxalate is very stable in an acid environment.The following

suggestion was made in an old lab book I own. Oxalate crystals will show up

in acid urine. If you mix oxalate crystals with acetic acid (vinegar), the

crystal shouldn't dissolve. If you mix it with strong hydrochloric acid,

it should dissove but recrystalize when you add ammonia. If what is

crystallizing is instead phosphate crystals then they will crystalize in

alkaline urine, but will dissove in vinegar.

I think it is amazing that we have learned that a lot of time when people

are " dumping " that their urine pH will be very alkaline. Maybe this is a

way that the body protects itself from the oxalate crystallizing in urine

when there is a lot coming out at the same time.

Anyway, I hope this has been helpful.

At 11:57 AM 1/10/2009, you wrote:

>I understand that increasing your Vitamin D will normalize calcium levels.

>I also just read that increased Vitamin D may cause kidney stones. Our

>daughter already has crystals in her urine - they aren't oxalate crystals

>but phosphate crystals. I've only been taking the prescription D3 for a

>couple of days and I feel SO much better - more energy and brightness. I

>want to give our daughter the D3 but I'm concerned about the kidney stone

>risks or maybe that's misinformation??

> in Houston mentioned that the thyroid tests for her husband, I

>think, were normal while D was low. My tests showed the same thing. I'm

>very pleased with the way I'm feeling so far and I was at an 18. I wonder

>if this will be a life long supplement. If I reach 70 will I have to

>continue on a lower dosage for life?

>Shari

>

>