Re: parent/teacher relations

January 11, 2002

...just reading that I am very uneasy. Does this teacher have ANY

training in autism? I think part of your IEP needs to include some autism

training in her teachers. I also think that if she has an aide that is

supposed to be helping her...she should have some accountability for Kailey

getting her work completed. Maybe Kailey could be removed from the

classroom with the aide to complete her work. That would not be the ideal

situation maybe, but better that than have her fall behind. I'm assuming

that this is work she is capable of doing?

Sorry if this isn't what you were looking for as far as advice...I haven't

had to deal with this yet. Good luck and I really hope you are able to get

this resolved.

Tamara

----Original Message Follows----

Reply-To: parenting_autism

To: " scott dorn " ,

<parenting_autism >, " sissi " , " seth "

, " mom "

Subject: parent/teacher relations

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:29:42 -0500

this is the dialogue i have had with kailey's teacher, mrs. havey, for the

past two days. let's just say that i'm less than pleased with the results...

1-10-02 mrs. havey writes...

Kailey is still not completing her work during the day- Would you like me to

send the work home?

1-11-02 gina responds...

Oh please no! We have a hard enough time with her regular homework. The last

thing we need is more.

What is your reasons for her not getting her work done in class? Is it just

her inattentiveness or is it more? Is her aide helping her? Which reminds

me- did you find a replacement for Mrs. [the classroom aide] yet?

Maybe that's throwing her off?

I was actually going to suggest that she have homework modifications. Would

the school provide an in-home tutor? or maybe she could have no homework at

all? I'm getting pretty desperate here. Any help would be deeply

appreciated. Thanks,

1-11-02 mrs. havey responds...

I really do not have any " reasons " for Kailey not completing her assigned

work. It is my professional opinion that Kailey just does not do what she

does not care to do at the moment. I do not think it is a result of her

inability to attend because she is kept on track by all of the adults in the

room. I do think that the attention seeking behaviors that we observe are a

direct result of her avoiding the assigned tasks. I do not think that these

behaviors are due to Mrs. 's absence as these behaviors are not new.

I gave you the option of sending home Kailey's unfinished class work so she

does not fall behind. I can understand that Kailey gives you similar

problems at home in refusing to do work. I can not make modifications for

her homework. There are no school provided tutors to assist with homework.

Honestly, if she is being oppositional and just refusing to do her homework,

a tutor would not be any more successful than you or I. Please continue to

make an attempt to do Kailey's homework with her. If she flatly refuses or

it is taking an unreasonable amount of time, just send in what has been

completed and/or a note. Kailey will have to face me and the consequences

faced by each and every other student.

I am quite aware of Kailey's special needs but I do believe that we must

attempt to assist Kailey in functioning within her environment rather than

continually modifying the environment for Kailey.

CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME WHAT TO THINK OF THAT?!

" Help! Jane! Stop this crazy thing! " - Jetson

January 11, 2002

,

Kailey's teacher does not sound like she really

understands that Kailey has special needs...can you

call the Pupil Personnel office or whoever is in

charge of calling a CSE meeting in your district and

ask for a meeting to get this resolved?

Good luck.

Mimi

--- gina muollo wrote:

> this is the dialogue i have had with kailey's

> teacher, mrs. havey, for the past two days. let's

> just say that i'm less than pleased with the

> results...

>

> 1-10-02 mrs. havey writes...

> Kailey is still not completing her work during the

> day- Would you like me to send the work home?

>

> 1-11-02 gina responds...

> Oh please no! We have a hard enough time with her

> regular homework. The last thing we need is more.

> What is your reasons for her not getting her work

> done in class? Is it just her inattentiveness or is

> it more? Is her aide helping her? Which reminds me-

> did you find a replacement for Mrs. [the

> classroom aide] yet? Maybe that's throwing her off?

> I was actually going to suggest that she have

> homework modifications. Would the school provide an

> in-home tutor? or maybe she could have no homework

> at all? I'm getting pretty desperate here. Any help

> would be deeply appreciated. Thanks,

>

> 1-11-02 mrs. havey responds...

> I really do not have any " reasons " for Kailey not

> completing her assigned work. It is my professional

> opinion that Kailey just does not do what she does

> not care to do at the moment. I do not think it is a

> result of her inability to attend because she is

> kept on track by all of the adults in the room. I do

> think that the attention seeking behaviors that we

> observe are a direct result of her avoiding the

> assigned tasks. I do not think that these behaviors

> are due to Mrs. 's absence as these

> behaviors are not new.

> I gave you the option of sending home Kailey's

> unfinished class work so she does not fall behind. I

> can understand that Kailey gives you similar

> problems at home in refusing to do work. I can not

> make modifications for her homework. There are no

> school provided tutors to assist with homework.

> Honestly, if she is being oppositional and just

> refusing to do her homework, a tutor would not be

> any more successful than you or I. Please continue

> to make an attempt to do Kailey's homework with her.

> If she flatly refuses or it is taking an

> unreasonable amount of time, just send in what has

> been completed and/or a note. Kailey will have to

> face me and the consequences faced by each and every

> other student.

> I am quite aware of Kailey's special needs but I do

> believe that we must attempt to assist Kailey in

> functioning within her environment rather than

> continually modifying the environment for Kailey.

>

> CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME WHAT TO THINK OF THAT?!

>

> " Help! Jane! Stop this crazy thing! " - Jetson

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

__________________________________________________

January 11, 2002

,

It's taken me this long to read this post. Sorry.

That said, I agree with everyone else. Ms Havey has no idea what she's dealing

with here. And I would like to add something else: she KNOWS it, and she's

pissed, and she doesn't want YOU to know it. How do I know this? For your

consideration:

" It is my professional opinion "

" I gave you the option "

" I can not make modifications "

" Honestly, if she is being oppositional "

" Please continue to make an attempt "

" Kailey will have to face me and the consequences faced by each and every other

student. "

" I am quite aware of Kailey's special needs but I do believe that we must

attempt to assist Kailey in functioning within her environment rather than

continually modifying the environment for Kailey. "

These are all incredibly hostile wordings. Some are employed specifically to

point out to you that SHE is the one in control of this situation and you must

not question her authority.

That statement about consequences illustrates without a doubt that this

" teacher " is in over her head and has no idea what she's dealing with. The

consequences other kids respond to don't mean jack to these kids.

Now, some questions of my own:

" ...if she is being oppositional " . Does this mean she has doubts that Kailey is

oppositional? That's she's not sure this theory she's shoving down your throat

is correct? This is a weakness in her argument. Can you exploit it?

" ...continually modifying the environment for Kailey. " What other modifications

have been made, thus far? Have they, in fact, modified the environment quite a

bit?

How long has this homework problem been at issue? This exchange, on HER part,

sounds like you have been dogging her on this problem relentlessly. Is that so?

How did it escalate to this? And what has got her back up so high that she

feels the need to pull out the 'higher than thou' language?

If this was happening in my school, this is the action that I would take, the

action that is standard for my school board: first, I would try once more with

her. Then I would take it to the principal. If the principal backed her up, I

would go to the special needs liaison at the county school board. he would come

in and observe in class for one or two days, then meet with the teacher and

prinicpal and the sped director. Then there would be a meeting with all of us

to discuss the options. The liaison is MY advocate; he is interested in what's

best for and how to make school work for him the best it can. When I call

in Pridding, the school knows I mean business, and things CHANGE.

Is there something like that in place for you?

Good luck , and please let us know what happens. Don't let this drop. Take

it from someone who's been brought to tears during meetings over just this kind

of crap -- it hurts, it's a pain, but the teachers are NOT the ultimate

authority they want you to believe they are.

Jacquie

January 11, 2002

Yikes, , sounds like this teacher really doesn't

understand what you're going thru or what you need for

Kailey. Time for a face to face meeting, I think.

Also, her " Kailey just doesn't want too " attitude

needs adjusting, I think.

Good Luck , hon.

Tuna

>>>> I really do not have any " reasons " for Kailey not

completing her assigned work. It is my professional

opinion that Kailey just does not do what she does not

care to do at the moment. I am quite aware of

Kailey's special needs but I do believe that we must

attempt to assist Kailey in functioning within her

environment rather than continually modifying the

environment for Kailey.

CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME WHAT TO THINK OF THAT?!<<<

=====

" Normal is just a setting on the washing machine. "

Whoopi Goldberg

______________________________________________________________________

Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca

January 11, 2002

:

ly I think Jacquie's assessment of the situation is nothing short of

brilliant. The teacher is hostile and she is hostile because she is so out

of her depth. If only she knew it, we would all understand her position

because we live in it daily. We know what it is to feel as if all the

normal treatments don't work; that sinking feeling started years ago for

most of us and if the teacher came to us and said, " Geez, I really am at my

wit's end about this, what do you think? How about if we tried this... " or

even " Listen do YOU have any ideas? Have you run into this stuff before? "

we would understand.

Her professional opinion isn't worth the powder to blow it to You-Know-Where

because she is NOT a professional on autism, , but YOU are.

Salli

January 11, 2002

> Ms Havey has no idea what she's dealing with here. And I would like to add

something else: she KNOWS it, and she's pissed, and she doesn't want YOU to

know it. <

wow, that's a very interesting take on it, one that i hadn't considered.

> These are all incredibly hostile wordings. Some are employed specifically to

point out to you that SHE is the one in control of this situation and you must

not question her authority <

and that is the one i had considered. i felt quite attacked.

> That statement about consequences illustrates without a doubt that this

" teacher " is in over her head and has no idea what she's dealing with. The

consequences other kids respond to don't mean jack to these kids. <

i very much agree. i think that word is what bothered me most of all. like she

is to be punished for something she can't do. i think NOT.

> Now, some questions of my own:

" ...if she is being oppositional " . Does this mean she has doubts that Kailey is

oppositional? That's she's not sure this theory she's shoving down your throat

is correct? This is a weakness in her argument. Can you exploit it? <

hmm, yes it did sound as if she was a bit confused on that issue. i will have to

think about that.

> " ...continually modifying the environment for Kailey. " What other

modifications have been made, thus far? Have they, in fact, modified the

environment quite a bit? <

nothing has changed since the beginning of the school year but that she started

ritalin.

> How long has this homework problem been at issue? This exchange, on HER part,

sounds like you have been dogging her on this problem relentlessly. Is that so?

How did it escalate to this? And what has got her back up so high that she

feels the need to pull out the 'higher than thou' language? <

what i wrote was the complete entirety of it. weird, huh?

> If this was happening in my school, this is the action that I would take, the

action that is standard for my school board:

Is there something like that in place for you? <

i don't know, but i will definitely have to find out.

> Good luck , and please let us know what happens. Don't let this drop.

Take it from someone who's been brought to tears during meetings over just this

kind of crap -- it hurts, it's a pain, but the teachers are NOT the ultimate

authority they want you to believe they are. <

thanks so much, jacquie

" Help! Jane! Stop this crazy thing! " - Jetson

January 11, 2002

> Her professional opinion isn't worth the powder to blow it to You-Know-Where

because she is NOT a professional on autism, , but YOU are. <

wow, thanks salli!

" Help! Jane! Stop this crazy thing! " - Jetson

January 11, 2002

Why the hell is it always our children that are being told they must

always adapt to other people, adapt to what everyone else wants or

needs from them? Why can't someone for once adapt to them & their

needs. , this woman sounds like a real witch. Actually, she

sounds like someone who doesn't really understand autism. How did you

respond?

Tracey

> I am quite aware of Kailey's special needs but I do believe that we

must attempt to assist Kailey in functioning within her environment

rather than continually modifying the environment for Kailey.

>

> CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME WHAT TO THINK OF THAT?!

>

> " Help! Jane! Stop this crazy thing! " - Jetson

>

January 11, 2002

In a message dated 1/11/02 5:40:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,

muollo3@... writes:

> ...

> I really do not have any " reasons " for Kailey not completing her assigned

> work. It is my professional opinion that Kailey just does not do what she

> does not care to do at the moment. I do not think it is a result of her

> inability to attend because she is kept on track by all of the adults in

> the room. I do think that the attention seeking behaviors that we observe

> are a direct result of her avoiding the assigned tasks. I do not think that

> these behaviors are due to Mrs. 's absence as these behaviors are

> not new.

> I gave you the option of sending home Kailey's unfinished class work so she

> does not fall behind. I can understand that Kailey gives you similar

> problems at home in refusing to do work. I can not make modifications for

> her homework. There are no school provided tutors to assist with homework.

> Honestly, if she is being oppositional and just refusing to do her

> homework, a tutor would not be any more successful than you or I. Please

> continue to make an attempt to do Kailey's homework with her. If she flatly

> refuses or it is taking an unreasonable amount of time, just send in what

> has been completed and/or a note. Kailey will have to face me and the

> consequences faced by each and every other student.

> I am quite aware of Kailey's special needs but I do believe that we must

> attempt to assist Kailey in functioning within her environment rather than

> continually modifying the environment for Kailey.

>

Hi : This I would not accept. First, if these behaviors that the

teacher is describing as inattentive, distracted, etc. are interferring with

Kailey getting her homework completed in class or in her getting an

appropriate education, I would definitely ask for a FBA to be done. This

would clearly define and outline her behaviors and give clear strategies to

deal with the problems. The next thing I would ask is why can she not make

modifications? Perhaps you could find a private tutor and let the school pay

the bill, if they don't have any tutors who work for the school department.

The last line just sounds like they don't want to do any extra work. I also

wanted to ask you if Kailey gets OT in school? Does she need any fine motor

assistance, like holding the pencil/pen, writing, etc. I'm shaking my head

here. I would also be curious in knowing what is in the IEP...not to sound

nosy but that is where everything would need to be specifically listed.

<A HREF= " http://www.pacer.org/parent/function.htm " >PACER Center - What is a

Functional Assessment?</A>

Here are some simple modifications that could be added into the IEP...

Homework

Individualized____

Shortened____

No more than one hour per evening____

More time____

More help____

Staying on Task

Break assignments down into small units____

Provide frequent teacher feedback and redirection____

Provide time in resource or special education room for completion of homework

and classwork____

Sit_________next to buddy so buddy can remind_________to return to task or

listen to lesson____

If necessary, lessen homework expectations____

Pam

Mom to and Conor

Check out our webpage!

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oceangirl65's Home Page</A>

January 11, 2002

In a message dated 1/11/02 6:23:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,

muollo3@... writes:

> just what she learned in school. this is her first year teaching

>

I would ask what specific autism training this teacher has had...probably one

hour in a psychology class.

Pam

Mom to and Conor

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January 11, 2002

In a message dated 1/11/02 6:58:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,

muollo3@... writes:

> yes, basically she's crying and/or she's going under the desk.

>

...you need to have an FBA done asap.

Pam

Mom to and Conor

Check out our webpage!

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oceangirl65's Home Page</A>

January 11, 2002

>make an attempt to do Kailey's homework with her. If she flatly refuses or

it is taking an unreasonable amount of time, just send in what has been

>completed and/or a note. Kailey will have to face me and the consequences

faced by each and every other student.

Only one thing to say to this:

Who the HELL does this woman THINK she IS? I want a piece of her.

> I am quite aware of Kailey's special needs but I do believe that we must

attempt to assist Kailey in functioning within her environment rather than

continually modifying the environment for Kailey.

>

, you tell that bimbo that being aware of Kailey's special needs and

knowing diddly squat ABOUT her needs are two very different issues. Knowing

'Kailey has autism " is simple. I bet even MY kids could learn that much

right now.

Understanding what autism is, how it works, what is within the realm of

possibility, what is not, what is feasible, what is impossible - - - these

things take more than a mere " awareness'. She can take that awareness and

shove it up where the sun don't shine. Even strangers can be AWARE that

something is up with Kailey. This woman is her teacher. She should be a

LOT more than just AWARE.

What you need is a REAL teacher. What you have is a bimbo with a teaching

certificate who believes that the 'autistic Kailey' is just a kid who won't

listen... and a kid who disobeys because she's just an awful kid. How long

has this woman been teaching? She is either too old school, or too

inexperienced. Too.... bimbo-ey.

She is obviously defensive because you asked her for reasons the school work

was not being completed. Her reasons are probably no different than yours.

It's been impossible, with the load of work that is put on Kailey, and her

ability, or lack thereof, to concentrate, focus, and finish - - - the work

is too much. That is why she can't get it done in school even with a 1:1,

and that is why you are going mad trying to make her finish it at home....

also trying to give her 1:1 assistance. That is why this is not working at

school, and not working at home.

Which calls for changes. Modifications. IEP TIME.

What you need is an advocate. A professional advocate. Do you have places

like what we call " Regional Centers " here in California? I know that our RC

does supply advocates when we need it. Also, if you'd like, I can send you

a site of local advocates of each state. It would take me awhile to find,

but many of them are special needs parents, and are sometimes truly

understanding...

What a bimbo that woman is!!!! LET ME AT HER!

I am so sorry for you and Kailey for being put through such an ordeal.

BIMBO BIMBO.

Grace

_________________________________________________________

January 12, 2002

YEA YEA!!

What SHE said!!!

Grace

Re: parent/teacher relations

,

It's taken me this long to read this post. Sorry.

That said, I agree with everyone else. Ms Havey has no idea what she's

dealing with here. And I would like to add something else: she KNOWS it,

and she's pissed, and she doesn't want YOU to know it. How do I know this?

For your consideration:

" It is my professional opinion "

" I gave you the option "

" I can not make modifications "

" Honestly, if she is being oppositional "

" Please continue to make an attempt "

" Kailey will have to face me and the consequences faced by each and every

other student. "

" I am quite aware of Kailey's special needs but I do believe that we must

attempt to assist Kailey in functioning within her environment rather than

continually modifying the environment for Kailey. "

These are all incredibly hostile wordings. Some are employed specifically

to point out to you that SHE is the one in control of this situation and you

must not question her authority.

That statement about consequences illustrates without a doubt that this

" teacher " is in over her head and has no idea what she's dealing with. The

consequences other kids respond to don't mean jack to these kids.

Now, some questions of my own:

" ...if she is being oppositional " . Does this mean she has doubts that

Kailey is oppositional? That's she's not sure this theory she's shoving

down your throat is correct? This is a weakness in her argument. Can you

exploit it?

" ...continually modifying the environment for Kailey. " What other

modifications have been made, thus far? Have they, in fact, modified the

environment quite a bit?

How long has this homework problem been at issue? This exchange, on HER

part, sounds like you have been dogging her on this problem relentlessly.

Is that so? How did it escalate to this? And what has got her back up so

high that she feels the need to pull out the 'higher than thou' language?

If this was happening in my school, this is the action that I would take,

the action that is standard for my school board: first, I would try once

more with her. Then I would take it to the principal. If the principal

backed her up, I would go to the special needs liaison at the county school

board. he would come in and observe in class for one or two days, then

meet with the teacher and prinicpal and the sped director. Then there would

be a meeting with all of us to discuss the options. The liaison is MY

advocate; he is interested in what's best for and how to make school

work for him the best it can. When I call in Pridding, the school

knows I mean business, and things CHANGE.

Is there something like that in place for you?

Good luck , and please let us know what happens. Don't let this drop.

Take it from someone who's been brought to tears during meetings over just

this kind of crap -- it hurts, it's a pain, but the teachers are NOT the

ultimate authority they want you to believe they are.

Jacquie

_________________________________________________________

January 12, 2002

In a message dated 1/12/02 10:41:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,

tamara_b73@... writes:

>

> I do not in any way want to be percieved as defending this teacher. That

> said....having taking courses with a lot of headstart teachers and

> kindergarten teachers, I know that a lot of them have told me that when

> they

> first began teaching, they were scared to death of losing control of the

> class and failing. They learned eventually to be more flexible and follow

>

I think also that new teachers are under alot of pressure " to make things

work " ...from principals, special ed directors and older, more experienced

teachers.

Pam

Mom to and Conor

Check out our webpage!

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oceangirl65's Home Page</A>

January 12, 2002

In a message dated 1/12/02 11:04:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,

vhunnius@... writes:

>

> Do. And Links Diva, find a website regarding the law on parent involvement

> in the classroom. It's out there; I kept running across such things back

> in October.

>

This one might help:

<A

HREF= " http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/parenting/parentsrights.html " >Parents'

Rights and Responsibilities</A>

Pam

Mom to and Conor

Check out our webpage!

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oceangirl65's Home Page</A>

January 12, 2002

I do not in any way want to be percieved as defending this teacher. That

said....having taking courses with a lot of headstart teachers and

kindergarten teachers, I know that a lot of them have told me that when they

first began teaching, they were scared to death of losing control of the

class and failing. They learned eventually to be more flexible and follow

the children's leads, but this took time. When you said she had just begun

teaching, I immediately thought of this. She is probably using her " power "

language and trying like hell to maintain her control over the situation. I

think Jacquie hit that right on. Also, her ideas sounded very good to me.

Do you think they might work?

Tamara

----Original Message Follows----

Reply-To: parenting_autism

To: <parenting_autism >

Subject: Re: parent/teacher relations

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 00:12:44 -0800