Re: ADHD, Possible BiPolar! LONG!!

January 8, 2002

Tamara,

We had the same problem when it came to meds for Sam. I was adamant about

not giving him meds. Then the time came where the teacher called, telling us

her time was being spent just with Sam. Though there were only 5 kids and a

teacher and an aid, they spent much time, trying to calm or console Sam.

We suspected bi-polar and ADHD....the doctor thought possibly. We played

with the meds and finally found the Risperdal.

After almost a year of trying to get it right, we finally found

Risperdal/Topemax combo that really has helped Sam.

We don't have a dx of BP/ADHD...all we know is because of persistent trying

with meds, Sam's language has increased, social skills have increased and his

learning has increased. In short, Sam isn't the same kid he was last year.

I don't have any advice but I pray this gives you some hope.

Good luck

Ron

January 8, 2002

In a message dated 1/8/02 10:40:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,

tamara_b73@... writes:

> That's exactly the situation with Ebony at school. Five kids, a teacher and

> an aide and they are constantly trying to get Ebony to sit and attend to

> anything. She will not sit to eat, she wanders around the room, stepping

> on things, running into walls and people. She does this at home and in

> therapy too. Is the Topemax a mood stabalizer? I had to choose between a

> mood stabalizer or the ADHD meds and I just didn't know what to do. What

> pressure to put on someone. Why can't the doctor just say....Well, this is

> what we need to do..period. Why does it always have to be me making this

> huge decision for her when they surely know more about it than I do?!!!!

> Tamara

>

I'll ask Terry about the Topemax....She's the RN....I pound nails

Ron

January 8, 2002

In a message dated 1/8/02 10:43:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,

tamara_b73@... writes:

> God I hope so. It's so scary. Has anyone read the book, " Nobody, Nowhere "

> by Donna ? It was written by an autistic lady. I am reading it

> and

> she talks a lot about how she felt and it seems like she did not like the

> meds...she felt they made her into someone else? I'm not done with it yet,

> so maybe someone else got something different from that?

> Tamara

>

We go by Temple Grandon's (sp?) words. If we don't get the " WOW " effect, it

isn't worth it.

We got the WOW effect witht the diet, we stuck with it a year. Then no more

wow, we dropped it.

We got it with Clonodine for a while, but dropped that.

We have stuck with the Risperdal and Topemax because of the same philosophy.

hope this helps

Ron

January 8, 2002

> Once again I feel like I am going to be drugging my child cause now she will

> be on risperdal and whichever ADHD med we decide on. Is this too much? The

> other option is to take her off the risperdal and just use the ADHD med.

> But then I will be back to being up all night long and I just don't think I

> can do it.

> HELP!!!!!!!!!! I AM GOING NUTS!!!!!!!

Tamara, has no other diagnosis than autism, so he's no meds for anything

else, and only on TMG...so, I may not know crap about this and everything I say

may be useless.

That said, I don't think that one med for moods and one med for ADHD is too

many. And if she had 3 *more* diagnoses that could be bettered with 3 *more*

medications, I wouldn't think THAT was too many. Now, five meds for one dx,

that I'd worry about.

Why do I think this way? Because this isn't some teacher telling you to drug

your child so that the teacher doesn't have to work so hard to control her.

This is a bona fide psychiatric diagnosis, which says to me that the meds are

not being prescribed as an 'easy out', but as a way to help her cope with the

world. There's a big difference.

Look at those of us on lithium. People make jokes about lithium all the time.

Others think you can pop a prozac and it's like taking a happy pill. But for

the people who NEED it, whose body chemistry is so f-ed up that we can't

function in the 'normal' world without it, it's a necessity. I'm on lithium to

stabalize my moods. I'm on effexor to stimulate seratonin. I take lorazepam

for panic attacks. Is this a lot of meds? hell yes! is my life better because

of them? Damn right!

Most of the people who oppose meds for children have children who don't need

them. Some people give their kids meds when they don't need them just to make

the lives of the parents easier. And because of those things, sometimes a very

important fact gets overlooked: some people, some CHILDREN, have a chemical

need for what those meds supply.

And above all else, remember this one thing: there is no harm in trying. And

it just might change her world for the better. And if it doesn't, you can

always take her off the meds.

(((hugs)))

Jacquie

January 8, 2002

> Once again I feel like I am going to be drugging my child cause now she

will

> be on risperdal and whichever ADHD med we decide on. Is this too much?

The

> other option is to take her off the risperdal and just use the ADHD med.

> But then I will be back to being up all night long and I just don't think

I

> can do it.

> HELP!!!!!!!!!! I AM GOING NUTS!!!!!!!

Tamara:

I don't know much about this but if ADHD is part of the autistic spectrum

which some feel it is, doesn't that seem to mean that you really cannot have

both diagnoses? Of course, this psych may not believe ADHD is on the

spectrum.

The bi-polar is more worrisome to me anyway as I think that is the harder to

deal with.

But I don't know why I am writing about this because I really DON'T know.

Salli

January 8, 2002

Tamara,

I agree with Jacquie...there is no harm in trying and

hopefully these meds will help Ebony..if you feel they

are not helping..than you can call her doctors and

tell them..and figure out the next option.

Mimi

--- The Hunny Family wrote:

>

> > Once again I feel like I am going to be drugging

> my child cause now she will

> > be on risperdal and whichever ADHD med we decide

> on. Is this too much? The

> > other option is to take her off the risperdal and

> just use the ADHD med.

> > But then I will be back to being up all night long

> and I just don't think I

> > can do it.

> > HELP!!!!!!!!!! I AM GOING NUTS!!!!!!!

>

> Tamara, has no other diagnosis than autism, so

> he's no meds for anything else, and only on

> TMG...so, I may not know crap about this and

> everything I say may be useless.

>

> That said, I don't think that one med for moods and

> one med for ADHD is too many. And if she had 3

> *more* diagnoses that could be bettered with 3

> *more* medications, I wouldn't think THAT was too

> many. Now, five meds for one dx, that I'd worry

> about.

>

> Why do I think this way? Because this isn't some

> teacher telling you to drug your child so that the

> teacher doesn't have to work so hard to control her.

> This is a bona fide psychiatric diagnosis, which

> says to me that the meds are not being prescribed as

> an 'easy out', but as a way to help her cope with

> the world. There's a big difference.

>

> Look at those of us on lithium. People make jokes

> about lithium all the time. Others think you can

> pop a prozac and it's like taking a happy pill. But

> for the people who NEED it, whose body chemistry is

> so f-ed up that we can't function in the 'normal'

> world without it, it's a necessity. I'm on lithium

> to stabalize my moods. I'm on effexor to stimulate

> seratonin. I take lorazepam for panic attacks. Is

> this a lot of meds? hell yes! is my life better

> because of them? Damn right!

>

> Most of the people who oppose meds for children have

> children who don't need them. Some people give

> their kids meds when they don't need them just to

> make the lives of the parents easier. And because

> of those things, sometimes a very important fact

> gets overlooked: some people, some CHILDREN, have a

> chemical need for what those meds supply.

>

> And above all else, remember this one thing: there

> is no harm in trying. And it just might change her

> world for the better. And if it doesn't, you can

> always take her off the meds.

>

> (((hugs)))

>

> Jacquie

>

__________________________________________________

January 8, 2002

Thanks Jacquie! I just wish she was verbal enough to tell me what she feels

about this and if the meds make her feel bad or if they make her feel

better. I don't want to give her so many meds that she isn't Ebony anymore

and it just feels like so much responsability to make that decision for

someone else. Ya Know?

Tamara

----Original Message Follows----

Reply-To: parenting_autism

To: <parenting_autism >

Subject: Re: ADHD, Possible BiPolar! LONG!!

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 20:14:51 -0500

> Once again I feel like I am going to be drugging my child cause now she

will

> be on risperdal and whichever ADHD med we decide on. Is this too much?

The

> other option is to take her off the risperdal and just use the ADHD med.

> But then I will be back to being up all night long and I just don't think

I

> can do it.

> HELP!!!!!!!!!! I AM GOING NUTS!!!!!!!

Tamara, has no other diagnosis than autism, so he's no meds for

anything else, and only on TMG...so, I may not know crap about this and

everything I say may be useless.

That said, I don't think that one med for moods and one med for ADHD is too

many. And if she had 3 *more* diagnoses that could be bettered with 3

*more* medications, I wouldn't think THAT was too many. Now, five meds for

one dx, that I'd worry about.

Why do I think this way? Because this isn't some teacher telling you to

drug your child so that the teacher doesn't have to work so hard to control

her. This is a bona fide psychiatric diagnosis, which says to me that the

meds are not being prescribed as an 'easy out', but as a way to help her

cope with the world. There's a big difference.

Look at those of us on lithium. People make jokes about lithium all the

time. Others think you can pop a prozac and it's like taking a happy pill.

But for the people who NEED it, whose body chemistry is so f-ed up that we

can't function in the 'normal' world without it, it's a necessity. I'm on

lithium to stabalize my moods. I'm on effexor to stimulate seratonin. I

take lorazepam for panic attacks. Is this a lot of meds? hell yes! is my

life better because of them? Damn right!

Most of the people who oppose meds for children have children who don't need

them. Some people give their kids meds when they don't need them just to

make the lives of the parents easier. And because of those things,

sometimes a very important fact gets overlooked: some people, some

CHILDREN, have a chemical need for what those meds supply.

And above all else, remember this one thing: there is no harm in trying.

And it just might change her world for the better. And if it doesn't, you

can always take her off the meds.

(((hugs)))

Jacquie

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January 8, 2002

I don't know either, but I think of my nephew that has autism and he is

completely different from Ebony. He is sooooo calm compared to her. My sil

leaves things out in her house that I could not even think about leaving

out. She does not have to hide crayons, markers, pencils, syrup, butter,

the salt shaker, etc. She does not have to have locks on every door in her

house because he can be trusted not to destroy them. He does not climb

EVERYTHING. He will sit and watch television. He will sit at school during

group times and at meals. Now they are both dianosed moderate autism. I

know that autism is a spectrum, but what a difference!! Oh, he also does

not have sleep issues.

Salli, I just don't know either. I am so confused.

Tamara

----Original Message Follows----

Reply-To: parenting_autism

To: <parenting_autism >

Subject: Re: ADHD, Possible BiPolar! LONG!!

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 20:19:16 -0500

> Once again I feel like I am going to be drugging my child cause now she

will

> be on risperdal and whichever ADHD med we decide on. Is this too much?

The

> other option is to take her off the risperdal and just use the ADHD med.

> But then I will be back to being up all night long and I just don't think

I

> can do it.

> HELP!!!!!!!!!! I AM GOING NUTS!!!!!!!

Tamara:

I don't know much about this but if ADHD is part of the autistic spectrum

which some feel it is, doesn't that seem to mean that you really cannot have

both diagnoses? Of course, this psych may not believe ADHD is on the

spectrum.

The bi-polar is more worrisome to me anyway as I think that is the harder to

deal with.

But I don't know why I am writing about this because I really DON'T know.

Salli

_________________________________________________________________

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January 8, 2002

> and it just feels like so much responsability to make that decision for

> someone else. Ya Know?

> Tamara

I don't know, but I can imagine. :-)

You know your girl. You can read her like nobody else can. If it's affecting

her badly, you'll know. You will.

Jacquie

January 8, 2002

That's exactly the situation with Ebony at school. Five kids, a teacher and

an aide and they are constantly trying to get Ebony to sit and attend to

anything. She will not sit to eat, she wanders around the room, stepping

on things, running into walls and people. She does this at home and in

therapy too. Is the Topemax a mood stabalizer? I had to choose between a

mood stabalizer or the ADHD meds and I just didn't know what to do. What

pressure to put on someone. Why can't the doctor just say....Well, this is

what we need to do..period. Why does it always have to be me making this

huge decision for her when they surely know more about it than I do?!!!!

Tamara

----Original Message Follows----

From: Bosocks1@...

Reply-To: parenting_autism

To: parenting_autism

Subject: Re: ADHD, Possible BiPolar! LONG!!

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 22:21:29 EST

Tamara,

We had the same problem when it came to meds for Sam. I was adamant about

not giving him meds. Then the time came where the teacher called, telling

us

her time was being spent just with Sam. Though there were only 5 kids and a

teacher and an aid, they spent much time, trying to calm or console Sam.

We suspected bi-polar and ADHD....the doctor thought possibly. We played

with the meds and finally found the Risperdal.

After almost a year of trying to get it right, we finally found

Risperdal/Topemax combo that really has helped Sam.

We don't have a dx of BP/ADHD...all we know is because of persistent trying

with meds, Sam's language has increased, social skills have increased and

his

learning has increased. In short, Sam isn't the same kid he was last year.

I don't have any advice but I pray this gives you some hope.

Good luck

Ron

January 8, 2002

God I hope so. It's so scary. Has anyone read the book, " Nobody, Nowhere "

by Donna ? It was written by an autistic lady. I am reading it and

she talks a lot about how she felt and it seems like she did not like the

meds...she felt they made her into someone else? I'm not done with it yet,

so maybe someone else got something different from that?

Tamara

----Original Message Follows----

Reply-To: parenting_autism

To: <parenting_autism >

Subject: Re: ADHD, Possible BiPolar! LONG!!

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 22:23:28 -0500

> and it just feels like so much responsability to make that decision for

> someone else. Ya Know?

> Tamara

I don't know, but I can imagine. :-)

You know your girl. You can read her like nobody else can. If it's

affecting her badly, you'll know. You will.

Jacquie

January 8, 2002

I've read it. But Donna is unique in a number of ways, atypical. For

example, I've never heard of another autistic person who used pretend

personalities to get by, who named them and had them 'take over'. Donna

, to me, is kind of outside the box... Nevertheless, I'm sure some

autistic people hate the meds. But you'll never know unless you try!

Jacquie

January 8, 2002

It does. I've never read anything she's written before. It's on my to do

list. She says that the parents should say WOW? I will have to go to the

library and put her books on hold. Thanks...

Tamara

----Original Message Follows----

From: Bosocks1@...

We go by Temple Grandon's (sp?) words. If we don't get the " WOW " effect, it

isn't worth it.

We got the WOW effect witht the diet, we stuck with it a year. Then no more

wow, we dropped it.

We got it with Clonodine for a while, but dropped that.

We have stuck with the Risperdal and Topemax because of the same philosophy.

hope this helps

Ron

January 8, 2002

You're right. All I can do is try and see. Thanks,

Tamara

----Original Message Follows----

Reply-To: parenting_autism

To: <parenting_autism >

Subject: Re: ADHD, Possible BiPolar! LONG!!

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 22:53:15 -0500

I've read it. But Donna is unique in a number of ways, atypical.

For example, I've never heard of another autistic person who used pretend

personalities to get by, who named them and had them 'take over'. Donna

, to me, is kind of outside the box... Nevertheless, I'm sure some

autistic people hate the meds. But you'll never know unless you try!

Jacquie

_________________________________________________________________

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January 8, 2002

> God I hope so. It's so scary. Has anyone read the book, " Nobody,

Nowhere "

> by Donna ? It was written by an autistic lady. I am reading it

and

> she talks a lot about how she felt and it seems like she did not like the

> meds...she felt they made her into someone else? I'm not done with it

yet,

> so maybe someone else got something different from that?

I have read several Donna books.

Everyone with autism is at least as individual as everyone without autism,

in fact, probably more so.

Anyone who is feeling overwhelmed by their autistic sensations will welcome

meds. Temple Grandin felt torn apart by stress and she found meds a great

relief.

It all depends. There just aren't simple answers.

Salli

January 8, 2002

You're right, of course. I need to read some of Temple Grandin's stuff.

This is the first book I've read by an autistic person, so I guess I am

taking it and generalizing too much. I will definetely just try the meds

and see what happens. I would like some specific pluses and minuses to the

different ADHD meds though. The doctor wrote ritalin, adderall, or

Dextrostat. I don't know what the pluses and minuses are for the individual

meds out there. Anyone?

Tamara

----Original Message Follows----

I have read several Donna books.

Everyone with autism is at least as individual as everyone without autism,

in fact, probably more so.

Anyone who is feeling overwhelmed by their autistic sensations will welcome

meds. Temple Grandin felt torn apart by stress and she found meds a great

relief.

It all depends. There just aren't simple answers.

Salli

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January 9, 2002

Tamara,

Both of my boys are on Paxil and adderall, although we're seeing the psych

about a change in meds tonight as they don't seem to be doing enough

anymore. Adderall seemed to work better for my kids, but that doesn't mean

it will work the best for Ebony, all you can do is try. Be sure they start

her on a very low dose. If it gets too high, you'll see more AI behaviors

come out. That's what happens to us.

Good luck!

Sue

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January 9, 2002

----- Original Message -----

>

> I don't know much about this but if ADHD is part of the autistic spectrum

> which some feel it is, doesn't that seem to mean that you really cannot

have

> both diagnoses? Of course, this psych may not believe ADHD is on the

> spectrum.

>

> The bi-polar is more worrisome to me anyway as I think that is the harder

to

> deal with.

>

> But I don't know why I am writing about this because I really DON'T know.

>

> Salli

Salli,

Autistic kids do have attention issues because of trouble processing

language. It makes sense that if you don't understand what you're hearing,

why pay attention to it? As a result, I have been told that does,

and doesn't have ADD. they a type of EEG on that had him watching

things on a computer and they do feel he has ADD along with the autism. I

guess it's a case of you try the meds and if it helps, great, if it doesn't,

you stop them and just deal with it, along with everything else.

Sue

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January 9, 2002

Thanks! The doctor did say that it would be very apparant if the meds were

working....like within hours. I will look into the book and see if it is a

good one. Thanks for the heads up.

Tamara

----Original Message Follows----

Reply-To: parenting_autism

ToI have read that book, and I recall that Donna had several other

issues going on...a very unstable home, very little support in her

school situation, an abusive mom. I wonder if she had gotten the

emotional support she needed when meds were introduced if she would

have been able to give them a chance to help her? I am thinking that

later, as an adult, she did start taking something for anxiety...but

that may be Temple Grandin I am thinking of. I do remember that she

did a lot of diet changes that she felt helped her.

Meds that impact brain chemistry do make kids feel different at

first...usually mine have gotten very sleepy or " spaced " for the

first few days. But it goes away after about a week. I remember when

they started (14 yr old) on Tegretol for seizures, he just

sat and stared for the first week...scared me to death. But after

that he returned to his old self--minus seizures.

By coincidence, one of the OTs on the OTpeds list asked about co-

existing ADHD and bipolar disorder in children, and one of the

therapists recommended a book called, " The BiPolar Child " as an

excellent resource for people dealing with these kids...thought I'd

pass that on.

FWIW, ADHD meds are stimulants, because " true " ADHD kids are the ones

who are moving constantly because they are not registering enough

information. If she doesn't need the med, it will make her

noticeably agitated, I think...at least that is what I have been told.

Raena

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January 9, 2002

AI behaviors?

Tamara

----Original Message Follows----

Reply-To: parenting_autism

To: <parenting_autism >

Subject: Re: ADHD, Possible BiPolar! LONG!!

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 07:49:55 -0800

Tamara,

Both of my boys are on Paxil and adderall, although we're seeing the psych

about a change in meds tonight as they don't seem to be doing enough

anymore. Adderall seemed to work better for my kids, but that doesn't mean

it will work the best for Ebony, all you can do is try. Be sure they start

her on a very low dose. If it gets too high, you'll see more AI behaviors

come out. That's what happens to us.

Good luck!

Sue

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January 10, 2002

Tamara...Conor was/is very active and was/is into everything...although I've

noticed in the past six months that the getting into everything has gotten

better. ADHD and Autism have many similar components. Conor is taking

Zoloft for anxiety. My psychiatrist said that alot of times the

antidepressant " speeds " kids up a bit and they use a stimulant to balance it

off. Conor speeded up quite a bit but has now tapered off. He is just

taking the one medication. I think what I'm saying here is that it is a

common practice to use two medications or more. I would just be concerned

that the Risperadal and any of the stimulants are o.k. to take together.

Sorry I'm late on this...I'm way behind. Let us know how you make out.

Pam

Mom to and Conor

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January 10, 2002

Tamara,

AI stands for autistic impaired. It was faster to type than autistic. With

, we had some major fixations show up when he was on too high of a dose

of Adderall.

Sue

Re: ADHD, Possible BiPolar! LONG!!

> Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 07:49:55 -0800

>

> Tamara,

> Both of my boys are on Paxil and adderall, although we're seeing the psych

> about a change in meds tonight as they don't seem to be doing enough

> anymore. Adderall seemed to work better for my kids, but that doesn't

mean

> it will work the best for Ebony, all you can do is try. Be sure they

start

> her on a very low dose. If it gets too high, you'll see more AI

behaviors

> come out. That's what happens to us.

> Good luck!

> Sue

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

> Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today

> Only $9.95 per month!

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>

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>

January 10, 2002

Thanks, I will. I have the ped appt on monday and then we will hopefully be

starting the new med. So I will definetely keep everyone posted.

Tamara

----Original Message Follows----

From: mom2ri@...

Reply-To: parenting_autism

To: parenting_autism

Subject: Re: ADHD, Possible BiPolar! LONG!!

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 17:59:08 EST