Re: an OT look at marriage.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/2/02 8:19:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, Sleepy Salli

writes:

> >

> > When women stop being possessive in this country, then you

> > can have arranged marriages.

>

> Barb:

>

> I feel sleepy and stupid; not sure I see the connection?

>

> Salli

>

>

>

>

Possessiveness comes from the feeling of control, right?

So if women didn't have the control that we seem to have

we would not have possessiveness, and therefore would

not feel the need to choose what we think we want.

Arranged marriages would work; there would be no opposition.

This is looking better all the time.

However, this could not happen. How do you reverse

the process of women's self . . . uh . . . what's the term

I am looking for? Unless you do like the Taliban, I don't

see how you could move in that direction. Americanized

women would never give up control, now.

Basically, I am just saying that arranged marriages

sound great if you could persuade women to give up

their self . . . whatever. (It's not self worth)

Barb

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/2/02 4:58:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, Salli writes:

> >

> > Possessiveness comes from the feeling of control, right?

>

> Actually I think possessiveness comes from the LACK of control.

>

When I said the feeling of control, I meant the perception of control.

And yeah, it really is the lack of control . . . I think.

>

> > So if women didn't have the control that we seem to have

> > we would not have possessiveness, and therefore would

> > not feel the need to choose what we think we want.

>

> But you are right that we are used to our freedom to decide who we marry. It

> would mean changing a whole cultural viewpoint and years and years of

> writings on romantic love. It would be pretty impossible.

>

Here I am, a writer of romance stories saying I think arranged marriages may

be something to consider. It does make for a great romance novel, though.

>

> >

> > However, this could not happen. How do you reverse

> > the process of women's self . . . uh . . . what's the term

> > I am looking for? Unless you do like the Taliban, I don't

> > see how you could move in that direction. Americanized

> > women would never give up control, now.

>

> Certainly not young women in their twenties! They would think that they

> could do a great job.

>

Do you realize what havoc would be if we did this?

Women's rights not only include her right to choose

be her right to raise her children as she sees fit.

Our kids would be institutionalized to spare us,

like what Raena's father was saying.

> >

> > Basically, I am just saying that arranged marriages

> > sound great if you could persuade women to give up

> > their self . . . whatever. (It's not self worth)

>

> I do know what you mean but I am not sure what it is either. And it is not

> self esteem or self worth or anything like that. It might be giving up a

> kind of independence of the individual that is a particularly American

> quality (and I rather think here I am referring not merely to the United

> States but to much of the North American continent, at least I am sure

> Canada is included). My parents' neighbor was from India and when he had

> lived and worked in Ohio for a few years he decided it was time he got

> married and so he called his parents and they arranged a wife for him. He

> went back to India and married her and they returned to raise their family

> together. He was not low on self esteem or self worth or indeed anything.

> But he had perhaps more of a picture of himself as a family or community

> member than merely as an individual, if that makes any sense.

>

Yes, Salli, you do understand exactly what I was saying.

I don't think there is a word, (because I still can't think of it).

Because women have fought for the right to be in control

of their lives and their decisions they won't give it back.

I think of the struggle is going to overcome and that

she will be better for going through it. Same with you.

We don't get better by being sheltered, we NEED to

take control and learn to love and discover what it

takes to make a happy life for ourselves, we don't

need an arranged marriage for that.

>

> And Jacquie did you ever have any idea how far your (very nice, by the way)

> musings on marriage would take us!

>

I love that Jacquie thinks outside the box, and CAN

come up with these profound ideas that spur discussions.

She's a gem. I love subjects that have no answers.

Barb

[Guest guest]

>

> Possessiveness comes from the feeling of control, right?

Actually I think possessiveness comes from the LACK of control.

> So if women didn't have the control that we seem to have

> we would not have possessiveness, and therefore would

> not feel the need to choose what we think we want.

But you are right that we are used to our freedom to decide who we marry. It

would mean changing a whole cultural viewpoint and years and years of

writings on romantic love. It would be pretty impossible.

>

> Arranged marriages would work; there would be no opposition.

>

> This is looking better all the time.

>

> However, this could not happen. How do you reverse

> the process of women's self . . . uh . . . what's the term

> I am looking for? Unless you do like the Taliban, I don't

> see how you could move in that direction. Americanized

> women would never give up control, now.

Certainly not young women in their twenties! They would think that they

could do a great job.

>

> Basically, I am just saying that arranged marriages

> sound great if you could persuade women to give up

> their self . . . whatever. (It's not self worth)

I do know what you mean but I am not sure what it is either. And it is not

self esteem or self worth or anything like that. It might be giving up a

kind of independence of the individual that is a particularly American

quality (and I rather think here I am referring not merely to the United

States but to much of the North American continent, at least I am sure

Canada is included). My parents' neighbor was from India and when he had

lived and worked in Ohio for a few years he decided it was time he got

married and so he called his parents and they arranged a wife for him. He

went back to India and married her and they returned to raise their family

together. He was not low on self esteem or self worth or indeed anything.

But he had perhaps more of a picture of himself as a family or community

member than merely as an individual, if that makes any sense.

And Jacquie did you ever have any idea how far your (very nice, by the way)

musings on marriage would take us!

Salli