Re: Just tried to watch Mozart and the Whale

[Guest guest]

I don't think that means that at all - I get bothered by seeing examples of

embarrassing behavior that I showed earlier on in my life as well. Many of

us do. I have not seen the film yet though.

Ari

>

> I couldnt' get past the first half hour or so, it was very upsetting.

> I turned it off at the point where that big redhaired woman was

> laughing hysterically after the small woman told of being raped and the

> guy was trying to help by trying to figure out what to call it. It hit

> entirely too close to home and I had to turn it off. I am still

> upset. Seeing how those young people interacted reminded me too much

> of myself at that age, I've mellowed a bit with age and also practicing

> meditation has helped a lot. Maybe I'm not Aspie after all, if I were

> Aspie I would have liked it?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I felt very uneasy the first time I saw the

movie. My [Asperger's] friend had nightmares and

his [NT] wife was also bothered.

The second time they both enjoyed it.

The second time I watched it, I approached it as

the relationship/romantic movie that it really

is. It is not an Asperger's movie, it is a

boy-and-girl-fall-in-love

then learn-to-adjust-to-each-other movie.

I liked it better the second time. Wait, then

watch it again. Or, watch it in smaller time

periods--that's the way I did.

I stopped at the point you did and after every

outburst. Maybe I indentified too much. Maybe it

was just too intense for me.

I stayed with it because I recognized it to be a

landmark premise.

I did not like the romance/relationship part

because I don't like such movies.

I did like it, generally, because it gave insight

and understanding how I appear to others.

My friend's wife saw a lot of her husband in the

Mozart character. She has studied about

Asperger's and she has analyzed her husband,

still she gained insight watching Mozart.

The movie is not a test for Asperger's. If you

don't like the movie, consider other factors than

Asperger's (like an emotional button maybe).

It is a rare movie. It was not in general

release. It is not easy (not impossible) to get

as a DVD. It is a movie that a minority can

identify with.

Every group needs their own movie: surfers,

motorcyclist, nurses, adoptees, etc. " My Big Fat

Greek Wedding " is my other " identity movie "

because I am Greek (it was a romance too, but I

don't think about that).

~Bonnie

=================

> I couldnt' get past the first half hour or so,

> it was very upsetting.

> I turned it off at the point where that big

> redhaired woman was

> laughing hysterically after the small woman

> told of being raped and the

> guy was trying to help by trying to figure out

> what to call it. It hit

> entirely too close to home and I had to turn it

> off. I am still

> upset. Seeing how those young people

> interacted reminded me too much

> of myself at that age, I've mellowed a bit with

> age and also practicing

> meditation has helped a lot. Maybe I'm not

> Aspie after all, if I were

> Aspie I would have liked it?

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

There was some teasing. Early on in the story, somoene (I think it was the big

redhaired woman, the same one who laughed hysterically at the rape account)

repeatedly told the new girl, you'll get lost and no one will ever find you.

This upset the new girl, and the teasing person repeated this several times,

seeming to enjoy upsetting the new girl. (I " m faceblind so this is how I have

to describe the interactions.)

In the opening scene, where the guy was fixating talking about himself while

driving the taxi, and got into a wreck, this also upset me very much. I don't

drive, because I've gotten into minor accidents while fixating on something.

Fortunately, no one was ever hurt, but this was enough of a warning to me not to

drive any more, and certainly not to try to be a taxi driver. (This was before

I knew of my diagnosis)

Mostly, tho, they seemed oblivious to each other and to the consequences of

their actions. When I was younger I was criticised for these exact same things,

now, with maturity and practice of meditation, I look back on some of the things

I've done, and cringe. On the other hand, I still have a lot of trouble with

social interaction and sensory imput, and prefer to be alone, in my house, in

silence. I do not try to pass for NT (I couildn't), I just try to be a decent

human being. Maybe I'm cured? But I don't want to be cured, I want to be me!

Re:

Not necessarily. Maybe if I'd have watched that I'd have had the same

reaction. I've never seen it. " mommy Dearest " was very hard for me to watch,

because some of those scenes reminded me of my own mother. About the young

people interacting. .. was anyone teasing anyone?

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__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> There was some teasing. Early on in the story, somoene (I think it was

> the big redhaired woman, the same one who laughed hysterically at the

> rape account) repeatedly told the new girl, you'll get lost and no one

> will ever find you. This upset the new girl, and the teasing person

> repeated this several times, seeming to enjoy upsetting the new girl.

> (I " m faceblind so this is how I have to describe the interactions.)

The big redhaired woman was one who smiled when she was sad (smiled all

the time actually), and laughed at inappropriate times for the same

kind of reasons. I don't think her reaction was on par with an NT one,

that is, I don't think she had a lot of control over it, nor do I think

she was being purposely rude. But that's just how I saw it.

a

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

>

> I don't drive, because I've gotten into minor accidents while fixating on

> something.

> Fortunately, no one was ever hurt, but this was enough of a warning to me

> not to

> drive any more, and certainly not to try to be a taxi driver. (This was

> before I knew of my diagnosis)

I don't drive, either. I've always had this irrational fear of steering and

controlling a car. Also, I get lost.

>

> On the other hand, I still have a lot of trouble with social interaction

> and sensory imput, and prefer

> to be alone, in my house, in silence. I do not try to pass for NT (I

> couildn't), I just try to be a decent

> human being. Maybe I'm cured? But I don't want to be cured, I want to be

> me!

Exactly!

D.

[Guest guest]

>

> > There was some teasing. Early on in the story, somoene (I think

it was

> > the big redhaired woman, the same one who laughed hysterically at

the

> > rape account) repeatedly told the new girl, you'll get lost and

no one

> > will ever find you.

Wrong. The red-haired woman was Gracie. The part about " you'll

get lost and nobody will ever find you " was said by another

character, Janice and it was not to the new girl. It was said to a

member of the group, Bronwin.

This upset the new girl, and the teasing person

> > repeated this several times, seeming to enjoy upsetting the new

girl.

> > (I " m faceblind so this is how I have to describe the

interactions.)

It wasn't meant to be teasing. It was just an example of

interaction which is sometimes insensitive. It was based on stuff

that the screenwrite observed in my original support group during the

visits he and some cast members made to its meetings.

Jerry Newport aka The Whale

[Guest guest]

the teasing person

> > repeated this several times, seeming to enjoy

> upsetting the new girl.

***

She didn't enjoy nor intend to upset the new

girl. The teasing person never changes her

expression. Happy or sad, her expression is the

same. Some people with Asperger's and autism are

like this.

The movie was about characters with Asperger's so

the actors acted out the traits in the criteria.

It was not a dark piece about people twisting

other people's feelings and sensitivities. A few

feelings were hurt during the interaction, but

not intentionally by the characters or by the

movie plot. It was like life.

***

***

> The big redhaired woman was one who smiled when

> she was sad (smiled all

> the time actually), and laughed at

> inappropriate times for the same

> kind of reasons.

....I don't think she had a lot of control

> over it, nor do I think

> she was being purposely rude.

***

I agree. She was being Asperger's. Some people

laugh inappropriately.

She was actually sensitive.

The smiling woman was the one who announced to

the group that the thin, quiet, young girl's

father was sick in the hospital. Then the female

lead immediately went over to the young girl and

escorted her out because she knew the girl needed

privacy.

The individuals in the groups really cared about

each other. They all gave special defference to

the shy, young boy who kept his head down.

In the beginning when the women were meeting on

the steps, it was the smiling woman who

encouraged the female lead, who was new to the

group, to talk. Trouble happened in this scene

when the smiling woman inappropriately laughed

when the female lead told of her rape. I guess

the lesson here is that even Asperger's people

don't always understand Asperger's people.

I have laughed inappropriately a few times. I

didn't mean it as an expression of humor, rather

surprise or shock. It came out without my

realizing that I was laughing.

~Bonnie

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Bonnie wrote:

> I stopped at the point you did and after every outburst. Maybe

> I indentified too much. Maybe it was just too intense for me.

Yeah, I had a problem watching the arguing. Reminded me of

" Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf?

Clay

[Guest guest]

It was 8 Jan 2007, when jonipinkney commented:

> I couldnt' get past the first half hour or so, it was very upsetting. I

> turned it off at the point where that big redhaired woman was laughing

> hysterically after the small woman told of being raped and the guy was

> trying to help by trying to figure out what to call it. It hit entirely

> too close to home and I had to turn it off. I am still upset. Seeing how

> those young people interacted reminded me too much of myself at that age,

> I've mellowed a bit with age and also practicing meditation has helped a

> lot. Maybe I'm not Aspie after all, if I were Aspie I would have liked it?

Maybe you don't like it because it hits " entirely too close to home. " I

suspect that's a reasonable response.

I think one way an Aspie might like the movie is to say, " See? It's not

just me! " to the madding crowd of NTs out there, some of whom might be

friends and family, who really ought to understand better, and don't have

the tools yet.

This is a tool. Like many tools, there's a handle on it, and a hard,

pointy bit at the end (he said, metaphorically), and sometimes you get

stuck with that end and bleed a bit. Still a useful tool for some tasks.

[Guest guest]

The characters weren't all " Asperger's " or even " high functioning "

from what I could tell, not that you can tell in real life even just

by glancing at a person's behavior in one scenario, but no one teased

another person in that group in a mean way. The lead character does

get teased a bit by his best friend who tells him that Isabel will

never be beside him again (it's a pun, too). I think 's friend

(can't remember his name, he's the writer) was teasing him a little,

but maybe it also was just him stating a fact as he saw it.

My ex and I both had been to the same places in Spokane that some of

the scenes were filmed, and we had some of the same issues in our

marriage as and Isabel, it was very close to home for me, but I

still enjoyed it. Maybe because I knew what to expect in the story.

I can see how it would upset spectrum people to see themselves

portrayed in ways that they aren't used to seeing. What struck me was

how " normal " they all looked to me, and how a non-autistic would

probably think that many of their autistic behaviors looked like

insanity. Like the woman (Gracie?) who always smiled when she was

upset. The girl whose father had cancer who always wanted to go wait

by the bulletin board, she'd probably be taken for a spaced out drug

addict by many people.

Camille

>

> the teasing person

> > > repeated this several times, seeming to enjoy

> > upsetting the new girl.

> ***

> She didn't enjoy nor intend to upset the new

> girl. The teasing person never changes her

> expression. Happy or sad, her expression is the

> same. Some people with Asperger's and autism are

> like this.

>

> The movie was about characters with Asperger's so

> the actors acted out the traits in the criteria.

> It was not a dark piece about people twisting

> other people's feelings and sensitivities. A few

> feelings were hurt during the interaction, but

> not intentionally by the characters or by the

> movie plot. It was like life.

> ***

> ***

> > The big redhaired woman was one who smiled when

> > she was sad (smiled all

> > the time actually), and laughed at

> > inappropriate times for the same

> > kind of reasons.

> ...I don't think she had a lot of control

> > over it, nor do I think

> > she was being purposely rude.

> ***

> I agree. She was being Asperger's. Some people

> laugh inappropriately.

>

> She was actually sensitive.

>

> The smiling woman was the one who announced to

> the group that the thin, quiet, young girl's

> father was sick in the hospital. Then the female

> lead immediately went over to the young girl and

> escorted her out because she knew the girl needed

> privacy.

>

> The individuals in the groups really cared about

> each other. They all gave special defference to

> the shy, young boy who kept his head down.

>

> In the beginning when the women were meeting on

> the steps, it was the smiling woman who

> encouraged the female lead, who was new to the

> group, to talk. Trouble happened in this scene

> when the smiling woman inappropriately laughed

> when the female lead told of her rape. I guess

> the lesson here is that even Asperger's people

> don't always understand Asperger's people.

>

> I have laughed inappropriately a few times. I

> didn't mean it as an expression of humor, rather

> surprise or shock. It came out without my

> realizing that I was laughing.

>

> ~Bonnie

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

>

> > The characters weren't all " Asperger's " or even " high functioning "

> > from what I could tell, not that you can tell in real life even just

> > by glancing at a person's behavior in one scenario, but no one teased

> > another person in that group in a mean way. The lead character does

> > get teased a bit by his best friend who tells him that Isabel will

> > never be beside him again (it's a pun, too). I think 's friend

> > (can't remember his name, he's the writer) was teasing him a little,

> > but maybe it also was just him stating a fact as he saw it.

>

> That's how I saw it too. Only Mozart and the Whale (Isabel and )

> were " Aspergers " .

Not true. I find the most laughable irony of the movie was that

" " , 's friend, was probably the best example of aspergers

shown in the film while he claimed to not have it

Jerry Newport aka The Whale

There was a scene where 's writer friend

> actually mentions that, that to the rest of the group, , the

> leader, was a " god " (or something along those lines). And when

> spoke before the group on the steps, he said something along the lines

> of no matter what level of autism they were at, they are all had one

> thing in common, and that had to do with being terribly inadequate

> socially. I understood all of the characters to be at different levels

> on the autistic spectrum. And personally, I really appreciated this

> aspect of it.

> >

> > My ex and I both had been to the same places in Spokane that some of

> > the scenes were filmed, and we had some of the same issues in our

> > marriage as and Isabel, it was very close to home for me,

but I

> > still enjoyed it. Maybe because I knew what to expect in the story.

> >

> I'm more autie than my husband, but I know he's got some traits in him.

> He suffered some of the same struggles for the same reasons growing

> up, and he has quite a few autie quirks, such as wearing clothing until

> they fall off in tatters, lol. So yes, we could relate to some of

> their struggles as a couple, some eerily close. When we saw the

> movie, it wasn't just me who could relate, although I related more, I

> think, to the autistic plight overall. I didn't admit it right away,

> or see it right away, but with a second viewing I saw more of me in

> Isabel. And ? Well, I just adore , lol...I thought he was

> the sweetest character, and made me laugh. Other scenes with other

> characters made me laugh...they made me cry, too...all good as far as

> I'm concerned. I'm a sucker for a well put together movies with good

> actors and great story line. Some scenes were uncomfortable the first

> time, and for me, kind of like the embarrassed feeling that would

> engulf me whenever my older brother caught me rocking away (he was

> cruel about it). I'm thinking people here were feeling the same way

> when they saw certain scenes in the movie.

>

> > I can see how it would upset spectrum people to see themselves

> > portrayed in ways that they aren't used to seeing. What struck me was

> > how " normal " they all looked to me, and how a non-autistic would

> > probably think that many of their autistic behaviors looked like

> > insanity. Like the woman (Gracie?) who always smiled when she was

> > upset. The girl whose father had cancer who always wanted to go wait

> > by the bulletin board, she'd probably be taken for a spaced out drug

> > addict by many people.

>

> > Camille

>

> They didn't seem all that crazy to me either. I felt comfortable with

> them. Even with the autistics at the opposite end of the spectrum from

> me, I felt a kindred spirit watching the movie. Maybe I'm a raving and

> helpless romantic deep down inside, I don't know, lol. I realize if I

> was put in that group, some might possibly annoy me, I can't say for

> sure because I'm not RIGHT there. But Gracie (I think you're right),

> the red-haired woman obviously annoyed the dark haired loud woman with

> the loud voice, and it didn't seem to phase Gracie at all, nor did

> anyone make big issues out of such things (except when they first met

> up with Isabel and she didn't know what to think). It seemed like

> everyone was just being themselves, getting along overall, and that's

> what I liked about the whole lot of them. I got a kick out of the one

> guy who kept grabbing the hand held blender away from the little quiet

> guy. I find things like that amusing, I guess...amusing in an

> endearing kind of way.

>

> I thought it was one of the most beautiful movies I've seen, and I've

> seen a lot of movies, good and bad, and I don't go for any one genre,

> and I'm less likely to enjoy a " romantic relationship " movie

> especially, but when a story is good, it's good. And when it's

> presented well on the screen, I can really appreciate that. I've

> always appreciated good art, whether it be based in real life or not.

>

> a

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

reminded me of a friend of mine, he did seem to have the " talent " of

irritating the sh!t out of everybody..though he didn't know it.

>

>

> >

> > > The characters weren't all " Asperger's " or even " high functioning "

> > > from what I could tell, not that you can tell in real life even just

> > > by glancing at a person's behavior in one scenario, but no one teased

> > > another person in that group in a mean way. The lead character does

> > > get teased a bit by his best friend who tells him that Isabel will

> > > never be beside him again (it's a pun, too). I think 's friend

> > > (can't remember his name, he's the writer) was teasing him a little,

> > > but maybe it also was just him stating a fact as he saw it.

> >

> > That's how I saw it too. Only Mozart and the Whale (Isabel and )

> > were " Aspergers " .

>

> Not true. I find the most laughable irony of the movie was that

> " " , 's friend, was probably the best example of aspergers

> shown in the film while he claimed to not have it

>

> Jerry Newport aka The Whale

>

> There was a scene where 's writer friend

> > actually mentions that, that to the rest of the group, , the

> > leader, was a " god " (or something along those lines). And when

> > spoke before the group on the steps, he said something along the lines

> > of no matter what level of autism they were at, they are all had one

> > thing in common, and that had to do with being terribly inadequate

> > socially. I understood all of the characters to be at different levels

> > on the autistic spectrum. And personally, I really appreciated this

> > aspect of it.

> > >

> > > My ex and I both had been to the same places in Spokane that some of

> > > the scenes were filmed, and we had some of the same issues in our

> > > marriage as and Isabel, it was very close to home for me,

> but I

> > > still enjoyed it. Maybe because I knew what to expect in the story.

> > >

> > I'm more autie than my husband, but I know he's got some traits in him.

> > He suffered some of the same struggles for the same reasons growing

> > up, and he has quite a few autie quirks, such as wearing clothing until

> > they fall off in tatters, lol. So yes, we could relate to some of

> > their struggles as a couple, some eerily close. When we saw the

> > movie, it wasn't just me who could relate, although I related more, I

> > think, to the autistic plight overall. I didn't admit it right away,

> > or see it right away, but with a second viewing I saw more of me in

> > Isabel. And ? Well, I just adore , lol...I thought he was

> > the sweetest character, and made me laugh. Other scenes with other

> > characters made me laugh...they made me cry, too...all good as far as

> > I'm concerned. I'm a sucker for a well put together movies with good

> > actors and great story line. Some scenes were uncomfortable the first

> > time, and for me, kind of like the embarrassed feeling that would

> > engulf me whenever my older brother caught me rocking away (he was

> > cruel about it). I'm thinking people here were feeling the same way

> > when they saw certain scenes in the movie.

> >

> > > I can see how it would upset spectrum people to see themselves

> > > portrayed in ways that they aren't used to seeing. What struck me was

> > > how " normal " they all looked to me, and how a non-autistic would

> > > probably think that many of their autistic behaviors looked like

> > > insanity. Like the woman (Gracie?) who always smiled when she was

> > > upset. The girl whose father had cancer who always wanted to go wait

> > > by the bulletin board, she'd probably be taken for a spaced out drug

> > > addict by many people.

> >

> > > Camille

> >

> > They didn't seem all that crazy to me either. I felt comfortable with

> > them. Even with the autistics at the opposite end of the spectrum from

> > me, I felt a kindred spirit watching the movie. Maybe I'm a raving and

> > helpless romantic deep down inside, I don't know, lol. I realize if I

> > was put in that group, some might possibly annoy me, I can't say for

> > sure because I'm not RIGHT there. But Gracie (I think you're right),

> > the red-haired woman obviously annoyed the dark haired loud woman with

> > the loud voice, and it didn't seem to phase Gracie at all, nor did

> > anyone make big issues out of such things (except when they first met

> > up with Isabel and she didn't know what to think). It seemed like

> > everyone was just being themselves, getting along overall, and that's

> > what I liked about the whole lot of them. I got a kick out of the one

> > guy who kept grabbing the hand held blender away from the little quiet

> > guy. I find things like that amusing, I guess...amusing in an

> > endearing kind of way.

> >

> > I thought it was one of the most beautiful movies I've seen, and I've

> > seen a lot of movies, good and bad, and I don't go for any one genre,

> > and I'm less likely to enjoy a " romantic relationship " movie

> > especially, but when a story is good, it's good. And when it's

> > presented well on the screen, I can really appreciate that. I've

> > always appreciated good art, whether it be based in real life or not.

> >

> > a

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>

> >

> > > The characters weren't all " Asperger's " or even " high functioning "

> > > from what I could tell, not that you can tell in real life even

> just

> > > by glancing at a person's behavior in one scenario, but no one

> teased

> > > another person in that group in a mean way. The lead character

> does

> > > get teased a bit by his best friend who tells him that Isabel will

> > > never be beside him again (it's a pun, too). I think 's

> friend

> > > (can't remember his name, he's the writer) was teasing him a

> little,

> > > but maybe it also was just him stating a fact as he saw it.

> >

> > That's how I saw it too. Only Mozart and the Whale (Isabel and

> )

> > were " Aspergers " .

>

> Not true. I find the most laughable irony of the movie was that

> " " , 's friend, was probably the best example of aspergers

> shown in the film while he claimed to not have it

>

> Jerry Newport aka The Whale

I did wonder/had some confusion about , but since he was the one

who took aside (I can't remember exactly how it was worded), and

said something about aspie-ness with regards to and Isabel, it

left me with the idea that he was saying he () was saying he

wasn't. Will have to listen more closely to that part again...he does

talk rather fast, lol.

a

[Guest guest]

>

> reminded me of a friend of mine, he did seem to have

the " talent " of

> irritating the sh!t out of everybody..though he didn't know it.

>

The real-life inspiration for most of 's character is

still in my original support group. My favorite memory of the

interaction between the studio people and that group is from back in

1997 when they first began to visit our meetings. After hanging out

with us for about two hours, the screenwriter, Ron Bass, laughed and

said something like, " I was going to ask you all where autism ends

and aspergers begins but there is obviously no answer to that, is

there? "

I think what interested the writers and eventually the cast the

most was that our meetings serve as a comfort zone where nobody has

to apologize for being who he is. Some of the cast commented on the

set that the best part of the movie was the freedom they had to be

who they were, on and off screen. And I would have to say that at

least a few of them had a " head start " on being our peers!

Thanks to ALL Of you for your comments on the movie.

Jerry Newport aka The Whale