Re: Confused about Carb Allowances

[Guest guest]

hee hee oh boy, Jerry, your funny, true but funny.

glenna 30yr diabetic, 30yr hypothyroidism

15mg actos, 35units nph, 360mg armor thyroid, 10mg lipitor

lo-carb,lo-fat,lo-cal, woe

Re: Confused about " Carb Allowances "

>

>

> > I limit my carbs to between 60 and 75

> > grams per day and have excellent control.

> > The best thing to do is eat and test,

> > everyone's body is different Some of

> > us can eat more carbs and still

> > have good control, others can't.

>

> Vicki, the only problem is that although you can test to see what

> happened to your blood glucose, you cannot test to see what happened

> long-term to everything else!

>

> > However, avoiding rice, pasta and grains

> > totally -- whole grain or otherwise --

> > seems to help.

>

> It only seems to help you limit that post-prandial rise but it won't

> help you with your overall nutrition. This is the point at which you

> have to decide whether to believe the nutritionists or not, right?

>

> Missing out on one bowl of rice won't do you any harm at all, I feel

> sure - but avoiding cereals on principle is said to increase your

> statistical risk of a number of unpleasant conditions, not so much

> because the grains will give you any particular short-term benefit

> but because you have to take on correspondingly more fat and protein

> to maintain your energy balance and there are limits to the amount of

> those that you can eat and still remain healthy (or so they claim).

>

> Experiencing brief BG excursions is said not to statistically

> increase your risk of diabetes complications, but sustained high BG

> surely does - isn't it a matter of faith whichever route you take?

>

>

> (Boy, am I getting brave now that Susie is no longer around!)

>

>

>

> Website for Diabetes International:

> http://www.msteri.com/diabetes-info/diabetes_int

>

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[Guest guest]

I can do that, , when I have some time...how many days' worth do you

want? I already weigh everything I eat out on a gram scale so that's no

problem. Vicki

In a message dated 01-08-20 16:46:30 EDT, you write:

<<

> However, I eat a very balanced diet.

> I eat lean meat, fish, or chicken.

> I eat lots of veggies (but not very

> often root veggies) and lots of salads.

> I eat dairy -- ricotta and other cheeses

> daily. I don't eat as much fruit as I

> did pre-diabetes and really, very small

> amounts of fruit when I do, mostly

> berries.

Sounds good, Vicki, but you can't possible guess it and come up with

a statement of what is low and what is high. You would have to give

me the grams and I will work out the composition, the kcals and hence

the percentages for you. I did something like it for Sam some time

ago and the results were surprising.

>>

[Guest guest]

ok jmho, but leave the bible out of this ok, thats very shakie ground to be

walking on, if you where there speak up other wise. we might be better of,

taking all we know about the bible by faith

glenna 30yr diabetic, 30yr hypothyroidism

15mg actos, 35units nph, 360mg armor thyroid, 10mg lipitor

lo-carb,lo-fat,lo-cal, woe

Re: Re: Confused about " Carb Allowances "

> Doesn't the Bible say that bread is the staff of life?

> http://www.yahoo.com > Join A Group > diabetes_int > Join This Group

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[Guest guest]

you quoted that out of contexed, we do not know what the fruit was, nor do we

really know what manna was either. like i said before take it by faith alone.

but dont quote out of context. jmho

glenna 30yr diabetic, 30yr hypothyroidism

15mg actos, 35units nph, 360mg armor thyroid, 10mg lipitor

lo-carb,lo-fat,lo-cal, woe

Re: Re: Confused about " Carb Allowances "

> Doesn't the Bible say that bread is the staff of life?

The Bible says;

On that fateful day when God chastised Adam and Eve for eating that costly

apple, he told him that " By the sweat of your brow shall ye bring forth

bread " , but he wasn't referring to challah. So basic and necessary, " bread "

meant the whole range of food in general.

[Guest guest]

> Well, , I can't give you percentages

>...I've told you all I'm math impaired and

> that means I just don't do number stuff,

> smile.

That's OK, Vicki. Just list the things you eat in a complete day and

give the weights of each basic item in grams or ounces and I will

work it out for you, no problem. And I would really like to know the

details. You will need a digital diet scales with a resolution of one

gram.

> However, I eat a very balanced diet.

> I eat lean meat, fish, or chicken.

> I eat lots of veggies (but not very

> often root veggies) and lots of salads.

> I eat dairy -- ricotta and other cheeses

> daily. I don't eat as much fruit as I

> did pre-diabetes and really, very small

> amounts of fruit when I do, mostly

> berries.

Sounds good, Vicki, but you can't possible guess it and come up with

a statement of what is low and what is high. You would have to give

me the grams and I will work out the composition, the kcals and hence

the percentages for you. I did something like it for Sam some time

ago and the results were surprising.

> But the bottom line is, I'm healthy

I am glad to hear that and hope you stay that way.

> I'm energetic, I'm not at all overweight.

> What else do I need?

At the moment, probably nothing, but you also recommend your way of

eating to new diabetics who are by their own admission very much

overweight and often not at all healthy or energetic. Are you sure

that it is going to do the same for them as it does for you?

> Incidentally, it was my CDE (Certified

> Diabetic Educator), a trained nutritionist,

> staffer from the Diabetes Institute here,

> who started me on a lowcarb diet, right

> at the very beginning of my diabetic training.

I can assure you that is completely unthinkable over here. An

employed diabetes adviser that recommended a low carbohydrate diet

wouldn't last very long in Germany.

> According to the article, the $362,000

> grant is from the National Center for

> Complementary and Alternative Medicine,

> an arm of the National Institute of

> Health (a very legitimate organization

> indeed). Not funded by Atkins. And the

> grant is for " ...a study that will compare

> the health effects of low-carbohydrate

> programs, such as the Atkins diet, with

> conventional carbohydrate-heavy diets. "

> So the grant is to design the study, not

> to execute it. That part is probably years

> down the line, alas.

Now I understand. Are they going to publish the design? Do they have

an Internet site with the details? I would be very interested.

What happened to Atkin's own study? He said on CNN that he had been

around collecting funds to make his own study and had it all

together. That was about six months ago. A proposal to test the 55%

carbohydrate diet was dropped here because it would take 20 years and

cost a trillion! So they decided to experiment on us for free! Now I

know how the lab rats feel.

[Guest guest]

> Doesn't the Bible say that bread is

> the staff of life?

It does, and I just did a scan of the bible and got 337 hits

on " bread " .

One of the best known is:

" In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto

the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and

unto dust thou shalt return. " (Genesis 3:19).

And that is what a lot of us will hear on our way out, I suppose.

[Guest guest]

, this post was pasted by me, not written by me, so comments about your

agreement/disagreement with its content addressed to me don't necessarily

apply...although I'll say I do agree with most of what was written - which is

why I posted it.

In a message dated 01-08-20 07:49:35 EDT, you write:

<<

I am not sure that that is particularly good advice - unless you

happen to be a scientist - amateur science experiments have been

known to blow up in people's faces! Maybe it would be better to find

out first what has already been thoroughly researched and confirmed.

There is more to your body than just a walking blood glucose

concentration!

>>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01-08-20 16:46:30 EDT, you write:

<<

At the moment, probably nothing, but you also recommend your way of

eating to new diabetics who are by their own admission very much

overweight and often not at all healthy or energetic. Are you sure

that it is going to do the same for them as it does for you?

>>

Yes, I've recommended this as a way to try to control BGs as well as lose

weight since this is a new idea to many diabetics and not generally suggested

by most doctors. I have been very careful to say this is not the only way to

control BGs. Diabetes is an extremely individual disease and as we always

say, YMMV. However, there are many on this list -- and others -- who have

gained excellent control by keeping their carb intake low. Vicki

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry Glenna, I misunderstood you.

Patsy

Re: Re: Confused about " Carb Allowances "

> Doesn't the Bible say that bread is the staff of life?

> http://www.yahoo.com > Join A Group > diabetes_int > Join This Group

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[Guest guest]

i know jerry whote it i was replying to him, and i did not miss quote you i was

not replying to your post i was replying to his. sorry you misunderstood that

and it won't happen again

glenna 30yr diabetic, 30yr hypothyroidism

15mg actos, 35units nph, 360mg armor thyroid, 10mg lipitor

lo-carb,lo-fat,lo-cal, woe

Re: Re: Confused about " Carb Allowances "

> Doesn't the Bible say that bread is the staff of life?

The Bible says;

On that fateful day when God chastised Adam and Eve for eating that costly

apple, he told him that " By the sweat of your brow shall ye bring forth

bread " , but he wasn't referring to challah. So basic and necessary,

" bread "

meant the whole range of food in general.

[Guest guest]

of course, i was replying to jerry's post

glenna 30yr diabetic, 30yr hypothyroidism

15mg actos, 35units nph, 360mg armor thyroid, 10mg lipitor

lo-carb,lo-fat,lo-cal, woe

Re: Re: Confused about " Carb Allowances "

> Doesn't the Bible say that bread is the staff of life?

> http://www.yahoo.com > Join A Group > diabetes_int > Join This Group

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[Guest guest]

Derick said----That is quite hard for me to understand Vicki. You just can't be

low

everything! Whatever it is you eat in total is 100%.

Derick, i am also low-carb less than 30g a day, my fat intake is low also, cause

i eat the low fat waffer meats or a very lean peice of meat, about 2ozs at a

time, with a saild for supper small bowl like 12oz bowls of salid, i think but

not sure but the protein intake is supossed to be like 1gram per pound of body

weight and am sorry but even at 160 pounds i can't eat that much protein that

also makes my bg go high. so yes you can be low fat , low carb and low-mod

protein. don't know about the long term affects but i do know that as long as my

bg stays around 100, i will pospone the long term effects of diabetes. jmho

glenna 30yr diabetic, 30yr hypothyroidism

15mg actos, 35units nph, 360mg armor thyroid, 10mg lipitor

lo-carb,lo-fat,lo-cal, woe

[Guest guest]

, I saw this bread in my local health food store and it cost like 4.00 a

loaf. It's a very heavy bread too. I can't remember the carb count but it had to

be high or I would have bought it.

Patsy

Re: Re: Confused about " Carb Allowances "

(Doesn't the Bible say that bread is the staff of life?)

-----------

Yes, it does! There is even a recipe in the bible for " bread " . HOWEVER, there

is no similarity to what we now call " bread " . There is a bread out today which

is supposed to follow the recipe found in the bible. It is called Ezekial bread

(the book from which the recipe comes, I would suppose). Sorry if the spelling

is off. It is made from sprouted grains, not the grains themselves. Also, I

believe the " bread " in the bible was unleavened bread.

in Seattle...

[Guest guest]

Next time try an open faced sandwich...or a foldover...or put the filling in

a lowcarb tortilla...Vicki

In a message dated 01-08-20 21:51:19 EDT, you write:

<<

Hi - I had a BLT. 2 slices of bread - 5 slices of bacon- tomato-

lettuce -regular mayo. I was surprised too as I can eat one slice of this

bread and only jump 30 points or so. But two did me in- 100 pts!

>>

[Guest guest]

Hi Madge- I can eat tomatoes too - I love them! I can eat blueberries,

strawberries and raspberries too ! Oranges are bad for me and the cantalope

a few months back wasn't good either but i find I am tolerating more foods

as I get my BS under control (80-120) so I am adding back a few before taboo

foods.

E

dx'd 2/16/01-T2

hbA1c 2/16/01= 11.7

hbA1c 4/20/01=6.7

hbA1c 6/26/01= 5.0

44 yrs old,diet & exercise

---Your're like me, . I can't handle it either.

But I can eat fruit. It barely changes the readings. I went up 7

with honeydew melon. Haven't had watermelon yet this season. I have

mostly blue berries, cantaloupe and honeydew and strawberries.

Tomatoes are fine also for me. Thank goodness I can still have my

fruit.

madge

[Guest guest]

Hi - I had a BLT. 2 slices of bread - 5 slices of bacon- tomato-

lettuce -regular mayo. I was surprised too as I can eat one slice of this

bread and only jump 30 points or so. But two did me in- 100 pts!

> I tried 2 slices of " good " wheat bread

> today and went from 96 to 190 in less

> then 2 hrs. Bad for me. It had 24 carbs

> after I subtracted the fiber. Too

> much for my system obviously

Why 2 slices, and what did you eat with them?

It doesn't matter how little carbohydrate you eat, it is unwise to

eat it in isolation.

If you always eat balanced mixed meals (e.g. 1 slice of " good " wheat

bread with a slice of boiled ham, a boiled egg, a raw tomato and a

cup of coffee with milk) you will reduce the overal glycemic index,

give your stomach something to digest and shouldn't see such a

big " peak " afterwards.

I never eat rice or bread or potato alone but always as a part of a

mixed meal with the appropriate amount of protein and fat (and

including as a major component some fruit and vegetable).

[Guest guest]

I am on no meds. an hbA1C of 5.0 because of this list and low carb diet.

E

dx'd 2/16/01-T2

hbA1c 2/16/01= 11.7

hbA1c 4/20/01=6.7

hbA1c 6/26/01= 5.0

44 yrs old,diet & exercise

<<

At the moment, probably nothing, but you also recommend your way of

eating to new diabetics who are by their own admission very much

overweight and often not at all healthy or energetic. Are you sure

that it is going to do the same for them as it does for you?

>>

Yes, I've recommended this as a way to try to control BGs as well as lose

weight since this is a new idea to many diabetics and not generally

suggested

by most doctors. I have been very careful to say this is not the only way to

control BGs. Diabetes is an extremely individual disease and as we always

say, YMMV. However, there are many on this list -- and others -- who have

gained excellent control by keeping their carb intake low. Vicki

[Guest guest]

Yes- I usually do that but a blt is difficult open faced :-) Tuna melts are

great that way!

----------

Next time try an open faced sandwich...or a foldover...or put the filling in

a lowcarb tortilla...Vicki

[Guest guest]

(Yes- I usually do that but a blt is difficult open faced :-) Tuna melts are

great that way!

)

--------

I do tuna melts on G/G Scandinavian Crispbreads or Bran a Crisp breads with

mayonnaise, a little onion, and chopped dill pickle and, of course, cheese.

They don't lose their crunch and taste great. They are also low carb.

in Seattle...

[Guest guest]

> , this post was pasted by me,

> not written by me, so comments about

> your agreement/disagreement with its

> content addressed to me don't necessarily

> apply

I know you didn't write it, Vicki, but you posted it so I addressed

my remarks to you, who else could I address them to? So you will have

to take the " heat " (only joking)!

My point was that although it might be interesting to newly diagnosed

diabetics to experiment a little, it is not a good idea to fool them

into thinking that there is anything " scientific " about what they are

doing. It was the word " scientific " that I objected to. You said in

your preliminary note that you had edited the text a little so maybe

you could have edited out the " scientific " , too?

[Guest guest]

> I can do that, , when I have some

> time...how many days' worth do you

> want? I already weigh everything I

> eat out on a gram scale so that's no

> problem.

I eat with as much variety as I can, too, and I find that it takes

about five days to get a good average. Send it to me directly so as

not to weigh down the list (unless it makes good reading for

everybody else, that is)!

[Guest guest]

> 2 slices of bread - 5 slices of bacon-

> tomato- lettuce -regular mayo.

Wow! I am speechless!

[Guest guest]

> I am on no meds. an hbA1C of 5.0

> because of this list and low carb diet.

I don't question that it works for that, . My big doubt is that

although we have a meter to measure our blood glucose concenration,

we don't have meters to measure anything else, our nitrogen balance

or our glomerular filtration rate, for example. So we have no

immediate way of knowing what is happening to the rest of us when we

up our protein intake. The only way over here to find out is to have

a check up and the doctors all say don't eat that way, man!

Maybe nothing bad is happening, but it is Russian Roulette! Most (not

all) nutritionists over here (and in the WHO) seem to believe that

eating a high fat/protein diet (what is called in the US a " low-carb "

diet) is like shooting yourself in the foot as a cure for in-growing

toenails.

I wish there was an easy way to monitor our complete nutrition in

real time (and a good way to find out who to believe).

[Guest guest]

- I bought the bran a crisps crackers. When I saw what I got and the

carb count I discovered I could eat regular bread or crackers for the

same/or less carb count. IMHO they are a rip off. Stone wheat thins makes a

mini cracker that is about 1 carb per cracker. I count out 10 and load them

with saga or cheddar cheese. 10 fills me up. The pep farm thin sliced wheat

bread is also very low carb. I am beginning to think some of the " low carb "

stuff I bought from life services is a huge rip off.

Take the apple sauce I ordered for my trip to maine. They said " x " carb per

tablespoon... Who eats a tablespoon of applesauce? My friend brought her

regular " no sugar added " applesauce and it is 1/2 cup for 13 carbs! It was

less carbs then my expensive stuff! I thought the bran a crisps carb count

was for the whole package- not one cracker.

JMHO-

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From: KDRuede@...

To: <diabetes_int >

Subject: Re: Re: Confused about " Carb Allowances "

Date: Tue, Aug 21, 2001, 1:13 PM

(Yes- I usually do that but a blt is difficult open faced :-) Tuna melts are

great that way!

)

--------

I do tuna melts on G/G Scandinavian Crispbreads or Bran a Crisp breads with

mayonnaise, a little onion, and chopped dill pickle and, of course, cheese.

They don't lose their crunch and taste great. They are also low carb.

in Seattle...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/20/01 5:20:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

patsyk@... writes:

> , I saw this bread in my local health food store and it cost like 4.00

>

It's evidently gone up in price since my sister used to buy it. It does have

a marvelous flavor if memory serves me right. I know the carb count per

slice was more than I wanted to consume after I went LC.

in Seattle...T2

Lowcarb WOE/WOL

Glucophage XR 1000 Daily