Re: Ann Coulter as Asperger's Syndrome Victim

[Guest guest]

> I don't understand why people are upset with this at all. Maybe this

> right winger is one of us. So what?

I don't think it's an issue whether she's one of us, but rather

that autism -- more specifically an ad hoc diagnosis of AS -- is

being used. The ad hoc diagnosis is being used as a slur or ad

hominem attack, rather than as a studied analysis.

I wouldn't be offended by a non-politically motivated dx, since

after all, Ann Coulter is a public personality and autism is a

personality type. Similarly, I'm not at all upset that

Jefferson, Nixon, Al Gore and numerous other public

figures are described as such.

Similarly, I don't like Ted Kozinksi (UNABOMER) being described

as AS, but do not take offense at those who make such an

analysis.

As to whether she is truly on The Spectrum, that's quite a

different issue. She'd still be one of us, even though I'd

disagree with some things she says.

- s

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Similarly, I don't like Ted Kozinksi (UNABOMER) being described

> as AS, but do not take offense at those who make such an

> analysis.

It's " unabomber " and Ted Kaczynski. He has far more right to be

included with us than many others. I know many people who knew him. He

lived in my dorm at Michigan while I was a freshman. My best friend on

the Michigan Math faculty taught Ted how to live outdoors. The head

attorney for his defense team called me in 1996 and told me that all

of Ted's family believed he had autism and was asking me about AS.

All of which makes me reject the entire strategy of retro-dx as

it is selectively geared towards finding shiny aspies.

Jerry Newport

>

> As to whether she is truly on The Spectrum, that's quite a

> different issue. She'd still be one of us, even though I'd

> disagree with some things she says.

>

> - s

>

[Guest guest]

In fact If I could interrupt here. Ted Kaczynski is the perfect argument

why we need to organize. The fact is he is autistic and the NT

establishement just threw him away rather than to deal with him. He is a

brilliant mathematician that could making many positive contributions.

>

>

> >

>

> >

> > Similarly, I don't like Ted Kozinksi (UNABOMER) being described

> > as AS, but do not take offense at those who make such an

> > analysis.

>

> It's " unabomber " and Ted Kaczynski. He has far more right to be

> included with us than many others. I know many people who knew him. He

> lived in my dorm at Michigan while I was a freshman. My best friend on

> the Michigan Math faculty taught Ted how to live outdoors. The head

> attorney for his defense team called me in 1996 and told me that all

> of Ted's family believed he had autism and was asking me about AS.

>

> All of which makes me reject the entire strategy of retro-dx as

> it is selectively geared towards finding shiny aspies.

>

> Jerry Newport

>

>

> >

> > As to whether she is truly on The Spectrum, that's quite a

> > different issue. She'd still be one of us, even though I'd

> > disagree with some things she says.

> >

> > - s

> >

>

>

>

--

www.fmplugin.net

www.melesystems.com

www.youseful.com

www.sharpinstall.net/smf (forums)

[Guest guest]

And if finding " shiny aspies " helps us succeed in fighting for our rights,

stopping a cure that would remove all of us from the gene pool - shiny or

otherwise - and secure the sort of educational and vocational supports that

can help more of us succeed, what's wrong with that? It remains the best way

we've found to show the world that autistics are not some sort of national

tragedy. It isn't enough on it's own - not anywhere near enough - and it can

not be central to our message. Yet it is still a very helpful strategy. We

should not say that we are fighting only for those who are going to be the

next Einsteins or Jeffersons - but if pointing out the autistic traits of

Einstein and Jefferson helps us get rights for all autistics, then how is

that bad?

Just my two cents,

-Ari

>

> All of which makes me reject the entire strategy of retro-dx as

> it is selectively geared towards finding shiny aspies.

>

> Jerry Newport

>

>

> >

> > As to whether she is truly on The Spectrum, that's quite a

> > different issue. She'd still be one of us, even though I'd

> > disagree with some things she says.

> >

> > - s

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are so right. Once in a chatroom, I listed off some traits of hitler

that could be aspie-like. Man I got a very negative reaction, just because

of the man. no one bothered to argue me on the points of my argument.

>

>

>

> All of which makes me reject the entire strategy of retro-dx as

> it is selectively geared towards finding shiny aspies.

>

>

[Guest guest]

First, I have seen no convincing evidence to suggest that Ted Kacynski was

autistic. Schizophrenia seems vastly more likely and, to be honest, by far

preferable, for our purposes. Second, it matters very little. Ted Kaczynski

was *killing* people. He broke the law. We put in jail or we execute people

who break the law. Respectfully, that has NOTHING to do with autism or

asperger's and we should be very careful about the sort of associations that

we make, if we want to avoid being demonized in the mainstream media.

I suspect you don't mean it that way - but whatever nuance you intend

wouldn't carry over very well in the media. Let's avoid putting ourselves in

the position of justifying the Unabomber. In fact, it would be good if we

could avoid the topic of him altogether. Those of us who want to apply for

jobs someday would prefer not to be associated with psychotic terrorism. If

the Unabomber was ever public ally identified with an Asperger's diagnosis,

then the first thing that would pop into every person's head when they were

told that their co-worker, student, job applicant, teacher, friend, family

member or what have you had a diagnosis would be " Violent sociopath " . Is

that right? No. But it is the reality of how people will react.

-Ari

>

> In fact If I could interrupt here. Ted Kaczynski is the perfect

> argument

> why we need to organize. The fact is he is autistic and the NT

> establishement just threw him away rather than to deal with him. He is a

> brilliant mathematician that could making many positive contributions.

>

> On 6/18/06, Gerald Newport <wholphin48@...<wholphin48%40hotmail.com>>

> wrote:

> >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > > Similarly, I don't like Ted Kozinksi (UNABOMER) being described

> > > as AS, but do not take offense at those who make such an

> > > analysis.

> >

> > It's " unabomber " and Ted Kaczynski. He has far more right to be

> > included with us than many others. I know many people who knew him. He

> > lived in my dorm at Michigan while I was a freshman. My best friend on

> > the Michigan Math faculty taught Ted how to live outdoors. The head

> > attorney for his defense team called me in 1996 and told me that all

> > of Ted's family believed he had autism and was asking me about AS.

> >

> > All of which makes me reject the entire strategy of retro-dx as

> > it is selectively geared towards finding shiny aspies.

> >

> > Jerry Newport

> >

> >

> > >

> > > As to whether she is truly on The Spectrum, that's quite a

> > > different issue. She'd still be one of us, even though I'd

> > > disagree with some things she says.

> > >

> > > - s

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

> --

> www.fmplugin.net

> www.melesystems.com

> www.youseful.com

> www.sharpinstall.net/smf (forums)

>

>

[Guest guest]

> It's " unabomber " and Ted Kaczynski. He has far more right to be

> included with us than many others. I know many people who knew him.

> He lived in my dorm at Michigan while I was a freshman. My best

> friend on the Michigan Math faculty taught Ted how to live

> outdoors. The head attorney for his defense team called me in 1996

> and told me that all of Ted's family believed he had autism and was

> asking me about AS.

> All of which makes me reject the entire strategy of retro-dx as

> it is selectively geared towards finding shiny aspies.

I met his brother last year. He was giving a talk around here, and

he's an old high school friend of Tisoncik's. (A point in favor

of autism in the family right there: Apparently Dave was a student

teacher in 's high school and was considered by people who worked

there to be the only person who could " handle " her -- she was known as

both highly aggressive and not very capable of speech, but apparently

Dave's take on her was " She's okay if treated with respect. " And

they hung out a lot, along with someone else they knew.) So we went,

and then talked to him afterwards.

I don't know if he definitively thinks that his brother was autistic,

but I do think he thinks it's a possibility.

[Guest guest]

> In fact If I could interrupt here. Ted Kaczynski is the perfect

> argument why we need to organize. The fact is he is autistic and

> the NT establishement just threw him away rather than to deal with

> him. He is a brilliant mathematician that could making many positive

> contributions.

Actually there was apparently some part of the " establishment " that

made him more likely to do something like that in the first place.

(He was part of some kind of experiment at one point, and apparently

never the same since. Being autistic, if he indeed is, might have

affected the 'flavor' of what he did, but it sounds like whatever he

went through might have screwed him up anyway.)

[Guest guest]

> First, I have seen no convincing evidence to suggest that Ted

> Kacynski was autistic. Schizophrenia seems vastly more likely and,

> to be honest, by far preferable, for our purposes.

Oh, so " our purposes " now include maligning " schizophrenic " people

being better than maligning ourselves? Count me out.

[Guest guest]

Jerry wrote:

>It's " unabomber " and Ted Kaczynski.

That's interesting. The web sites that come up on Google all refer to

him as Kacynski. I wonder why they all got it wrong. (I'm assuming

you've got it right, Jerry, since you have had some contact with his

family.)

Jane

[Guest guest]

Ari wrote:

> > First, I have seen no convincing evidence to suggest that Ted

> > Kacynski was autistic. Schizophrenia seems vastly more likely and,

> > to be honest, by far preferable, for our purposes.

and responded:

>Oh, so " our purposes " now include maligning " schizophrenic " people

>being better than maligning ourselves? Count me out.

Agreed. " Category climbing " (putting down category X so that category

Y can " rise above " it) is always a mistake. Usually done out of

unenlightenment as much as anything else, but that doesn't make it

less destructive.

Jane

[Guest guest]

> That's interesting. The web sites that come up on Google all refer

> to him as Kacynski. I wonder why they all got it wrong. (I'm

> assuming you've got it right, Jerry, since you have had some

> contact with his family.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Kaczynski

[Guest guest]

> >It's " unabomber " and Ted Kaczynski.

> That's interesting. The web sites that come up on Google all refer to

> him as Kacynski. I wonder why they all got it wrong. (I'm assuming

> you've got it right, Jerry, since you have had some contact with his

> family.)

Odd. If I do a search for " Unabomber " the only pages that immediately

show a name (including the first page) say Kaczynski. Which is the

right spelling.

[Guest guest]

I might be wrong on the spelling but not on the DX.

Jerry Newport

> > That's interesting. The web sites that come up on Google all refer

> > to him as Kacynski. I wonder why they all got it wrong. (I'm

> > assuming you've got it right, Jerry, since you have had some

> > contact with his family.)

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Kaczynski

>