Re: I didn't need that/Grace/CIO

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/19/01 9:36:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,

thebyks@... writes:

<< I don't know how to get to that stage. And one of the reasons I post here

is for help. And that's what you're trying to do. So thank you.

>>

I'm sorry Sara, that you must deal with this super boy who doesn't need

sleeep. I've done this too for the past 9+ years, though now it is ALMOST

normal behavior for a 4 or 5 year old. I can certainly live with it now.

I wanted to mention baby swings as a possibility for managing to get a few

extra hours sleep. Have you tried them? Do they work?

For a good 2 years or so that was just about the only way would sleep.

kandie

Kandie and (9 years)

* 's website: <A

HREF= " http://kidsactivities.homestead.com/spage.html " >spage</A>

*

[Guest guest]

> OK Sara.

> Now I have to ask.

Ask away.

> What EXACTLY will happen if you lock up Mikey in an empty bedroom with a

> mattress, pillow and comforter?

Unmedicated, I have no doubt whatsoever he would scream most of the night,

and possibly all night. He has proven on countless occasions that he can

cry for at least 5 hours straight, and countless more that he can stay up

all night or get by on 3 hours or so of sleep. He currently has 2 and 3

hour long tantrums - not often, but they do happen. And I am not talking

about whimpering or fussing crying. I'm talking about wake the neighbors

crying.

I know for a fact he would be terrified and become hysterical. This happens

any time he wakes up alone.

Medicated, I think he could probably hold out for 2-3 hours, after watching

him fight it last night. And I was doing everything I could think of to

help him calm down - lots of deep pressure, joint compressions, laying on

him, rocking - all the things that typically help him before bed. Possibly

with a different medication, that would be a different story.

So how long is too long to let him cry? I'm really asking; I don't know the

answer.

> We must find a solution for you. And yesterday, at that.

I agree with you there.

Another thing...I don't think the crying would lessen. At least, not

anytime soon. This would not be a case of letting him cry for a week and

then having good sleep. We did cry it out for naptime when he was 10 mos

old, and every single day for a month he cried for an hour. So, for a good

while, I'd be getting *less* sleep than I am now, because there's no way I

could sleep with him crying in the other room.

> And Sara... not to sound like an old fart, but you HAVE to eat to keep up.

> A lot of the drain in energy you feel can be attributed to a poor diet <or

> no food at all in your case> and having more nutrition taken out

> by BF-ing.

And Grace...not to sound like a grouch, but I WAS getting over the stomach

flu... I do usually eat. Thanks, though. If that was a typical day

you'd be 100% right.

> Please don't think I am

> trying to convince you to do something. I just really want to understand

> your stance before saying anything else.

Thanks very much for saying that.

I certainly don't mind people putting forth their opinions and the reasons

for them. I understand that you had a very good experience with letting

your kids cry for a couple of nights and not having any further sleep

problems. I see why you think I should try it. And I'm not ruling it out,

especially with medication.

You see, I didn't set out to be an attachment parent. I didn't start out

with lofty goals thinking this was the only way of doing things. I did

start out with a mind open enough to do whatever worked for us, and the

things that worked for us happened to fall into AP. The very first night we

were home, Matt had to sleep with his arm in the bassinet, because without

that pressure Mikey could not sleep. I didn't even know there was a name

for what we were doing until Mikey was at least 3 or 4 months old. I was on

a parenting list and all the people there were letting their babies cry it

out and all their babies were starting to sleep through the night. And I

simply couldn't understand how they could stand to listen to their babies

cry for hours every night, especially when all they had to do to quiet the

baby was pick him up. I really didn't know that wasn't what was going on.

Most of their babies cried for less than 30 minutes. If we let Mikey cry,

he just kept crying. And he'd cry louder and harder and louder and harder

until we picked him up.

I absolutely think that he should be able to fall asleep in his bed and get

through the night without extraordinary measures on my part. I don't mind

him coming to snuggle with me. I don't even mind nursing him back to sleep.

It's OK with me if he needs some help, as long as I can still get a good

night's sleep and feel rested in the morning.

I don't know how to get to that stage. And one of the reasons I post here

is for help. And that's what you're trying to do. So thank you.

-Sara.

[Guest guest]

>

> So how long is too long to let him cry? I'm really asking; I don't know

the

> answer.

I don't have a clue, Sara. But from the sounds of it, Mikey knows, and he

exceeds it each time.

In my desperation to give you some advice, I forgot that Mikey is over 18

months older than my girls were when I made them learn to sleep on their

own. WHOLE different energy level between a 6 month older, and a 2 year

old, huh?

Sorry..... I forgot about that all over again. I was honestly becoming

desperate for you last night.

> And Grace...not to sound like a grouch, but I WAS getting over the stomach

> flu... I do usually eat. Thanks, though. If that was a typical day

> you'd be 100% right.

OK, OK.... Penny is right. I obviously don't pay attention. I didn't know

you had the flu. At all, LOL.

Well, my mom would tell you that you STILL have to eat <she would tell you

this even as you're puking>... but I know you know what you're doing.

> I certainly don't mind people putting forth their opinions and the reasons

> for them. I understand that you had a very good experience with letting

> your kids cry for a couple of nights and not having any further sleep

> problems. I see why you think I should try it. And I'm not ruling it

out,

> especially with medication.

*I* myself am thinking that this isn't possible if Mikey really wil not let

up for 5 hours, or even all night long. If he were to go for it for about

1-2 hours, I'd suggest you try it. But 5 hours.... no child should be left

to cry for 5 hours. I expected him to exhaust himself to sleep from sheer

anger within the 1st hour. Perhaps even the second hour... but definitely

not FIVE hours.

> simply couldn't understand how they could stand to listen to their babies

> cry for hours every night, especially when all they had to do to quiet the

> baby was pick him up. I really didn't know that wasn't what was going on.

> Most of their babies cried for less than 30 minutes. If we let Mikey

cry,

> he just kept crying. And he'd cry louder and harder and louder and harder

> until we picked him up.

Yes... that is a huge difference.

My girls, while equally autistic, didn't have these issues.

Different kid, different method. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply in any

way that my way was the right way. And I didn't know you fell into AP.... I

figured you were always an AP kind of parent, and didn't want to try this

method because you simply looked down on it. Last night, I was thinking

that you were desperate enough to try ANYTHING at this point.... but again -

that 5 hours...... that would not be possible for me either.

> I don't know how to get to that stage. And one of the reasons I post here

> is for help. And that's what you're trying to do. So thank you.

Aww. Thanks for understanding my intentions, Sara. I appreciate that. I

WAS really trying to help, but - - - well, look how far THAT got us LOL!!

Grace

>

> -Sara.

>

>

_________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>If we let Mikey cry, he just kept crying. And he'd cry louder and

>harder and louder and harder until we picked him up.<<<<

>

Sara -

This is exactly how it was with Jacqui. Fortunately enough, we could

get her back to sleep (never in her room), by going thru

the " bedtime " routine, again....(sometimes, again and again and

again). We were up early and went to bed extrememly late some nights

and we both were working.

You are not alone here. I think Mikey's problems are much more

severe than Jacqui's was, but I just want you to know that a lot of

us can relate in some way.

Penny