Re: The darker side of Gerald Ford...

[Guest guest]

I say this although Ford is a Michigan alumnus as I am: I

remember seeing a portrait of Rep. Ford (Grand Rapids) hanging in the

DKE house when I visited it in fall of 1966.

The usual joke about him is that he played too many games as a

Michigan center without the modern helmets. The other side is the

persistent theory that the main reason Ford rose through congress and

became VP etc was that it was a reward for his cooperation on the

Warren Commmission which " investigated " the JFK assassination.

Jerry Newport

>

> > I just wanna say, I'm already SICK of hearing how Gerald Ford

> > was Such a nice guy. How he was right all along to pardon Nixon.

>

> That was a while ago, but I had mixed reactions to it. In one

> sense, he was right, in that it would have been a quagmire for

> the US to go through the criminal hearings. More recently we

> got a taste of that, lampooned by Schwartz's video

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSVYkQoFADs

>

> (the second one is 's video.)

>

> Well back to Ford, he said that he granted the pardon for the

> stated reasons, and we have no way of knowing whether that was

> true. That leaves a disagreement as to whether the decision was

> wrong or right. What did happen is that Nixon was out of

> politics, couldn't move into NYC, and settled in Bergen County

> instead. Ford didn't just lose the election, he lost to Jimmy

> (who decided " WIN " wasn't stupid enough, and went on with

> his " Crisis in Confidence " speech, essentially blaming the

> economy on Americans who didn't pray enough.)

>

[Guest guest]

I daresay that what with all the theories about " Big Pharma " and thimerosal

out there cluttering the internet like so much garbage, we have enough

experience with crackpot " persistent theories " to last us a lifetime. I

admire Ford, in his own way, for pardoning Nixon and sparing America the

long drawn out nightmare of a trial. Can you imagine how demoralizing that

would have been? Better to let things go after he had been removed.

Ari

>

>

> I say this although Ford is a Michigan alumnus as I am: I

> remember seeing a portrait of Rep. Ford (Grand Rapids) hanging in the

> DKE house when I visited it in fall of 1966.

>

> The usual joke about him is that he played too many games as a

> Michigan center without the modern helmets. The other side is the

> persistent theory that the main reason Ford rose through congress and

> became VP etc was that it was a reward for his cooperation on the

> Warren Commmission which " investigated " the JFK assassination.

>

> Jerry Newport

>

>

> >

> > > I just wanna say, I'm already SICK of hearing how Gerald Ford

> > > was Such a nice guy. How he was right all along to pardon Nixon.

> >

> > That was a while ago, but I had mixed reactions to it. In one

> > sense, he was right, in that it would have been a quagmire for

> > the US to go through the criminal hearings. More recently we

> > got a taste of that, lampooned by Schwartz's video

> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSVYkQoFADs

> >

> > (the second one is 's video.)

> >

> > Well back to Ford, he said that he granted the pardon for the

> > stated reasons, and we have no way of knowing whether that was

> > true. That leaves a disagreement as to whether the decision was

> > wrong or right. What did happen is that Nixon was out of

> > politics, couldn't move into NYC, and settled in Bergen County

> > instead. Ford didn't just lose the election, he lost to Jimmy

> > (who decided " WIN " wasn't stupid enough, and went on with

> > his " Crisis in Confidence " speech, essentially blaming the

> > economy on Americans who didn't pray enough.)

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

-----Original Message-----

>

>

> The usual joke about him is that he played too many games as a

>Michigan center without the modern helmets. The other side is the

>persistent theory that the main reason Ford rose through congress and

>became VP etc was that it was a reward for his cooperation on the

>Warren Commmission which " investigated " the JFK assassination.

That's what I heard about Dan Rather, too, as pertaining to his career in

journalism.

D.

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[Guest guest]

Ari wrote:

> I admire Ford, in his own way, for pardoning Nixon and sparing

> America the long drawn out nightmare of a trial.

It would have been a sweet dream, compared to the long drawn out

#G*O^D#D$A@M#M*E & D!F*U^C#K^I$N@G!B%R*U^T@A*L! WAR we endured in

Vietnam for all those years! Nixon had promised to end it when

he was elected the first time, but that was just an election

promise, as he vastly expanded it instead.

> Can you imagine how demoralizing that would have been? Better

> to let things go after he had been removed.

I guess you'll have to imagine how demoralizing it was for our

soldiers to leave Vietnam in ignominous defeat, 'cause you weren't

around then. Trust me, the whole country was already demoralized

after losing that one.

Hmmm, it would have been " inconvenient " or something to put Nixon

on trial for obstructing justice and gross malfeasance in office?

Maybe, but I heard recently that Moveon.org and SwiftBoats just

got fined $650,000 for their illegal activities during the last

election. I guess a slap on the wrist like that is all you can

get for torpedoing an election. If Nixon had gone on trial, it

would have set an important precedent for such shenanigans. NOBODY

is above the Law!

Clay

[Guest guest]

Fair enough on the rule of law thing - there's a point to be made there,

though personally I think a reasonable case could be made that with Nixon,

there were exigent circumstances. As for Vietnam, that was hardly Nixon's

fault. Blame Kennedy for getting us involved in the first place with

military advisors and a political committment. Heck, blame Truman for not

recognizing Vietnamese Independent when Ho Chi Minh was willing to ally with

the Western Bloc and give the US a naval base at Cam Ranh Bay. Korea

would've been so much easier under those circumstances and the balance of

power in South Asia would've shifted significantly. On the other hand, it

might've emboldened certain groups to try and support a nationalist invasion

of China, which would have been bad. The last thing the Cold War needed was

a resurgence of the Chinese civil war, with all the nuclear tensions that

would involve - what with it being right in the Soviet backyard and such.

Still, Nixon got us out of Vietnam and LBJ was just keeping with the Kennedy

Administration's policy on the matter. Anything less than that would've been

unacceptable to the American people at that time. Nixon can hardly be

blamed. I'll tell you what I do blame Nixon, or more accurately Kissinger

for though: a disgusting concern for *realpolitik* at the expense of

democracy promotion. Say what you want about Wolfowitz, Perle and the

neocons (a group I hold in great esteem, I might add), they are firmly

committed to spreading democracy.

Ari

>

> Ari wrote:

>

> > I admire Ford, in his own way, for pardoning Nixon and sparing

> > America the long drawn out nightmare of a trial.

>

> It would have been a sweet dream, compared to the long drawn out

> #G*O^D#D$A@M#M*E & D!F*U^C#K^I$N@G!B%R*U^T@A*L! WAR we endured in

> Vietnam for all those years! Nixon had promised to end it when

> he was elected the first time, but that was just an election

> promise, as he vastly expanded it instead.

>

> > Can you imagine how demoralizing that would have been? Better

> > to let things go after he had been removed.

>

> I guess you'll have to imagine how demoralizing it was for our

> soldiers to leave Vietnam in ignominous defeat, 'cause you weren't

> around then. Trust me, the whole country was already demoralized

> after losing that one.

>

> Hmmm, it would have been " inconvenient " or something to put Nixon

> on trial for obstructing justice and gross malfeasance in office?

> Maybe, but I heard recently that Moveon.org <http://moveon.org/> and

> SwiftBoats just

> got fined $650,000 for their illegal activities during the last

> election. I guess a slap on the wrist like that is all you can

> get for torpedoing an election. If Nixon had gone on trial, it

> would have set an important precedent for such shenanigans. NOBODY

> is above the Law!

>

> Clay

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ari wrote:

> Fair enough on the rule of law thing - there's a point to be made

> there, though personally I think a reasonable case could be made

> that with Nixon, there were exigent circumstances.

Depends on if we're talking about blaming him for the war, or for

being involved with the foolish cover-up attempt of the Watergate

break-in. His involvement in trying to hide the facts show what

he was made of. I still go ballistic when I think about Nixon,

and I wasn't at all happy that Ford pardoned him, that's all.

> As for Vietnam, that was hardly Nixon's fault. Blame Kennedy for

> getting us involved in the first place with military advisors and

> a political committment. Heck, blame Truman for not recognizing

> Vietnamese Independent when Ho Chi Minh was willing to ally with

> the Western Bloc and give the US a naval base at Cam Ranh Bay.

I know, old Ho even wrote a Vietnamese Constitution that mirrored

our own, but he couldn't get any financial or political assistance

from us to expel the French. (And you Don't want to get me started

about the French!) ;-)

> Still, Nixon got us out of Vietnam and LBJ was just keeping with

> the Kennedy Administration's policy on the matter. Anything less

> than that would've been unacceptable to the American people at

> that time.

Not sure if you mean during LBJ's or Nixon's administration " at that

time " . It was the public's opposition to the war that caused LBJ to

utilize his own " exit strategy " . And I believe that Kennedy was

about to change his mind about further involvement in Vietnam. He

understood that he had been misled by the same hawks who had advised

him about the Bay of Pigs in Cuba. At the last minute, he decided

not to give them aerial support there.

> Nixon can hardly be blamed.

For his first election, he said he had a plan to get us out of

Vietnam. No step in that direction was ever taken by him.

> Say what you want about Wolfowitz, Perle and the neocons (a group

> I hold in great esteem, I might add), they are firmly committed to

> spreading manure.

Okay, so I changed a word up there. If you ever find a real

Democracy, let me know. ;-)

Clay

[Guest guest]

It was 29 Dec 2006, when Clay commented:

> Ari wrote:

> > Nixon can hardly be blamed.

>

> For his first election, he said he had a plan to get us out of

> Vietnam. No step in that direction was ever taken by him.

The trouble was, he wrote his plan on the back of McCarthy's list of known

Communists in the State Department. Nobody knows what ever happened to

that, either.

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<dbsmith at atbbs.dyndns.org>

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<http://www.pmail.com>

[Guest guest]

Ari wrote:

> I admire Ford, in his own way, for pardoning Nixon and sparing

> America the long drawn out nightmare of a trial. Can you imagine

> how demoralizing that would have been?

Come to think of it, how would that have been worse that our country

suffering through the recent impeachment proceedings against a *sitting*

President, (and getting to know that insufferable prig Ken Starr in

the process)? The news of the trial of Nixon could have been carried on

page eight, after the full-page Macy's ads. :-)

Clay

[Guest guest]

> Ari wrote:

>

> > I admire Ford, in his own way, for pardoning Nixon and sparing

> > America the long drawn out nightmare of a trial. Can you imagine

> > how demoralizing that would have been?

>

Demoralizing to who? To some of us, it would have been an

acknowledgement that we were right all along. Some of us never get

that.

Our fault lies not in being wrong, but in failing to be duped along

with everyone else. We're never forgiven for that.

I'm not reading all the posts in this thread because it still makes me

angry to have anyone defend the characters in that episode.

- Debra

[Guest guest]

Gerald Ford's death reminds me that people say

nice things about people after they die.

I don't remember people speaking so highly of him

when he was President.

I, for one, was embarrassed by his actions. I

didn't think he grasped the significance of his

position.

He and his family in the White House acted like

they had won a free ticket to an amusement park.

They seemed to take advantage of their privileges

as First Family rather than use them in the

exercise of their duties. How many private

citizens would be allowed to continually bang

people with golf balls without being sued or

rejected from the golf course? Would a press

conference be called to announce our children's

high school graduation or what Christmas gift we

gave our spouse? Gifts from foreign governments

intended for the American people were accepted as

personal gifts by the Ford family and put in

their closet rather than in the White House or

the sonian.

I don't understand all the attention. Maybe the

news is giving us a break from the atrocities of

Iraq. Comic relief, which does describe Ford if

you can forget that he was our national leader

who didn't know where to go or what to do.

~Bonnie

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