RE: Re: FIGHTING AGAINST BIG BUSINESS

[Guest guest]

But if we don't get the billing information, how can they pay us to begin

with ? Just a thought.

[Guest guest]

If the management corrects the report then people accuse them of fraud!

I'm not sure where you get " highly paid " from either.

Steve Dralle, EMT-P EMSC

San , TX

The opinions expressed in this message are my own and do not represent the

opinions or policies of my employers.

[texasems-L] Re: FIGHTING AGAINST BIG BUSINESS

So the highly paid management admits to being too go to make a few

check marks and add up mileage to complete the forms.....

Jeff

[Guest guest]

hey guys,

its a balancing act...positive communications...honest listening...and

respect on all sides and levels is the only answer to the problem... two

ways to go about effecting change

1)make the giant your friend..then convince him to respect and reward you in

an appropriate fashion...if you keep poking it in the eye it wont ever

listen to your needs.

2) make another giant bigger and stronger than the first and clobber the

first into submission. (ie...union)

both will work but the second leaves scars that never quiet go away.

think about it...

>From: CLFRPRATHEART@...

>Reply-To: egroups

>To: egroups

>Subject: [texasems-L] Re: FIGHTING AGAINST BIG BUSINESS

>Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 14:04:43 -0000

>

>So the highly paid management admits to being too go to make a few

>check marks and add up mileage to complete the forms.....

>

>Jeff

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

My comment on not completely filling out the billing portion of the run

report was not meant to be an insinuation that this is not important or that

those who continually fail to do so should not be reprimanded. It was more

to show the value of what is the most important aspect of a service, in

comparison to Pt. care.

Thanks

Frieze

Re: [texasems-L] Re: FIGHTING AGAINST BIG BUSINESS

But if we don't get the billing information, how can they pay us to begin

with ? Just a thought.

[Guest guest]

You know, I am getting fed up with this recurring idea that there is

something wrong with getting paid for providing EMS service. This attitude

is reflected in numerous ways throughout our state. This criticism of

services that require their medics, who are in the best position to gather

basic billing information, to fill in that portion of their run paperwork is

another example. That is part of the job. I can see it legitimate to

criticize a company that puts getting billing information and filling out

the paperwork over providing quality medical service. The latter must always

take precedence over the former; that's just the social responsibility

aspect of running a business that provides 911 response. However, someone

has to pay for these valuable services so the ambulances can roll and the

medics can eat. I'd rather at least part of that payment come from the folks

who actually receive service as opposed to having all of it come out of my

property taxes. There is NOTHING wrong with for-profit EMS, EMS services

that charge for service (and insist on being paid), and the expectation that

gathering billing information should be part of the EMS crew's job as long

as it is not allowed to interfere with optimal patient care. I'll grant you

that a lot of our current for-profit services are having financial troubles,

but this not do to any inherent evil or lack of viability in the concept of

EMS as a business. I think some people need to take that famous class,

Real-World 101.

Dave

[texasems-L] Re: FIGHTING AGAINST BIG BUSINESS

> Well in my opinion Rural/Metro is still circling the drain and on

> their way in several different ways. Maybe thats why R/M stock can't

> get over $1.50. I also belive about geting wrote up or fired

> over not completing the billing section of your run ticket cause I

> can recall many times that I was paged to come complete a ticket just

> to see that it was the billing part.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dave

I agree with your view 100%. My point in even bringing the part about

filling out the billing portion of the run report was strictly for

comparison purposes of important issues. I was a Supervisor with a large

private service for about two years and I myself wrote people up for not

completing run reports and even on occasions called people to come back in

and complete their reports. I agree this is part of their job and this is

what they are paid to do. My problem is that we have so many of these types

of issues that take precedence over Pt. care. I believe that the big

private services and maybe even some of the small ones were established

strictly for the purpose of making money. Not that this in it's self is a

bad thing but when push comes to shove the issue of making money will

always seem to take precedence over other issues when making money is their

foundation. I myself am a paid Paramedic therefore I also do this

for-profit however I have also spent many years as a volunteer and either

way my pt. care has always topped my list of priorities.

Re: [texasems-L] Re: FIGHTING AGAINST BIG BUSINESS

You know, I am getting fed up with this recurring idea that there is

something wrong with getting paid for providing EMS service. This attitude

is reflected in numerous ways throughout our state. This criticism of

services that require their medics, who are in the best position to gather

basic billing information, to fill in that portion of their run paperwork is

another example. That is part of the job. I can see it legitimate to

criticize a company that puts getting billing information and filling out

the paperwork over providing quality medical service. The latter must always

take precedence over the former; that's just the social responsibility

aspect of running a business that provides 911 response. However, someone

has to pay for these valuable services so the ambulances can roll and the

medics can eat. I'd rather at least part of that payment come from the folks

who actually receive service as opposed to having all of it come out of my

property taxes. There is NOTHING wrong with for-profit EMS, EMS services

that charge for service (and insist on being paid), and the expectation that

gathering billing information should be part of the EMS crew's job as long

as it is not allowed to interfere with optimal patient care. I'll grant you

that a lot of our current for-profit services are having financial troubles,

but this not do to any inherent evil or lack of viability in the concept of

EMS as a business. I think some people need to take that famous class,

Real-World 101.

Dave

[texasems-L] Re: FIGHTING AGAINST BIG BUSINESS

> Well in my opinion Rural/Metro is still circling the drain and on

> their way in several different ways. Maybe thats why R/M stock can't

> get over $1.50. I also belive about geting wrote up or fired

> over not completing the billing section of your run ticket cause I

> can recall many times that I was paged to come complete a ticket just

> to see that it was the billing part.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

:

This is an issue of balance. While a tax-funded municipal service or

volunteer service might, at least on the surface, be able to say, " damn the

money issues, we have patients to care for, " in reality, they can't sustain

that sentiment in the real world. You can see countless examples of the

money-driven compromises they make that do adversely affect patient care. It

is the same with for-profit services. They too have to balance the service

they provide with the mundane requirements of maintaining a business. They

have the added disadvantage of not really being able to put up the cover

story that patient care is their sole priority. No one will believe them. On

the other hand, everyone believes the non-profit EMS services when they make

that claim even though is is no more true for them. Its all a matter of

balancing the competing imperatives you deal with anytime you undertake to

put ambulances on the street and to provide EMS care.

I'm not saying patient care shouldn't be the first priority, but I am saying

a lot of other concerns have to rank only slightly below it when you look at

the big picture. Have a good weekend.

Dave

[texasems-L] Re: FIGHTING AGAINST BIG BUSINESS

>

>

> > Well in my opinion Rural/Metro is still circling the drain and on

> > their way in several different ways. Maybe thats why R/M stock can't

> > get over $1.50. I also belive about geting wrote up or fired

> > over not completing the billing section of your run ticket cause I

> > can recall many times that I was paged to come complete a ticket just

> > to see that it was the billing part.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dave is right on the money (not meant to be a pun). I have worked for

privates through my entire career, a few for profit and few not for profit,

and in every case, ensuring documentation is sufficient for billing was

important. I do not see how ensuring the billing information is provided

could every be considered " interfering with patent care " . I have never

worked at a service (now or in the past) that requires medics to collect

billing information prior to patient transport. I have never worked for a

service that requires you to treat patient's differently because of their

payer category. I am not saying that there are no services that do those

things, as I am sure there are. But for a private, for profit company to be

successful it has to ensure the patients (or customers) are happy with the

service provided. If not, they will call someone else. This is the

foundation of for profit business in every industry. Customer satisfaction

has to be the priority above ALL else.

At the same time, you have to ensure continued funding to be able to provide

that service. The cost vs. income issue is common to all businesses whether

they are for profit or not. You can not spend more than you take in or you

will not exist, or you had better be good friends with the likes of Bill

Gates. An extreme example is that I am sure we would all agree that

staffing a unit with trauma surgeons and equipping the back of the unit as a

mobile surgical suite could possibly be the best thing we could do for

trauma, unfortunately there is absolutely no way to pay for it.

Profit is not evil when it is regulated by people whom are in a position to

be held accountable to the public (legislatures). Do not jump to the

conclusion that I am naive by that statement but remember profit is a

motivator, if it were not, then the issue of pay would never come up. We

all want to make more money because we want to provide more stuff for our

families. Companies want to make more money so they big bosses can provide

stuff for their families. To ensure you make more you have to ensure that

you are always providing the best service POSSIBLE and that you respond to

what the customer wants, and you are able to bill for what you do. This is

not always easy to achieve, just look at the failure rate for food service

companies, but it is the primary goal of the successful company.

This is the economic foundation of this country and has worked for a couple

of hundred years so to call for profit evil, or assume that it is, is not

actually accurate or wise. What needs to be ensured is that run-away

capitalism, like during the turn of the century (The last one not this one)

never re-occurs, just read " The Jungle " by Upton Sinclair if you do not know

what I am talking about. This is achieved through governmental regulation,

professional self-regulation and consumer pressure.

A good example of the motivating factor of profit is AIDS research. There

are millions if not billions spent on research in attempt to find a cure or

a workable vaccine. A large portion of this is supported by federal money

as well as donations but the drug manufacturing companies are also investing

heavily in this area. Why? For the good of humanity? May be a little bit,

but the primary issue is the tremendous amount of money that stands to be

made by a company that patents the cure for HIV/AIDS. Should we criticize

the drug companies for their profit motive? If I had HIV/AIDS I would say I

do not care what their profit is if they can cure me. Profit is NOT evil,

the only evil is the unscrupulous attempt to gain profit.

Flame away,

Steve Dralle, EMT-P EMSC

San , TX

The opinions expressed in this message are my own and do not represent the

opinions or policies of my employers.

Re: [texasems-L] Re: FIGHTING AGAINST BIG BUSINESS

:

This is an issue of balance. While a tax-funded municipal service or

volunteer service might, at least on the surface, be able to say, " damn the

money issues, we have patients to care for, " in reality, they can't sustain

that sentiment in the real world. You can see countless examples of the

money-driven compromises they make that do adversely affect patient care. It

is the same with for-profit services. They too have to balance the service

they provide with the mundane requirements of maintaining a business. They

have the added disadvantage of not really being able to put up the cover

story that patient care is their sole priority. No one will believe them. On

the other hand, everyone believes the non-profit EMS services when they make

that claim even though is is no more true for them. Its all a matter of

balancing the competing imperatives you deal with anytime you undertake to

put ambulances on the street and to provide EMS care.

I'm not saying patient care shouldn't be the first priority, but I am saying

a lot of other concerns have to rank only slightly below it when you look at

the big picture. Have a good weekend.

Dave

[texasems-L] Re: FIGHTING AGAINST BIG BUSINESS

>

>

> > Well in my opinion Rural/Metro is still circling the drain and on

> > their way in several different ways. Maybe thats why R/M stock can't

> > get over $1.50. I also belive about geting wrote up or fired

> > over not completing the billing section of your run ticket cause I

> > can recall many times that I was paged to come complete a ticket just

> > to see that it was the billing part.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>