Re: Re: Protest at autism speaks TGIF event

[Guest guest]

They care. But it all focused on their children and HOW it effects them as

parents.

>

> Yeah, Joe! It is so cool that you did that, and also very scary that

> they responded that way. I can understand them not wanting you to

> spoil their event, though. But dismissing you out of hand is the part

> I don't like. The points you made are good ones. I also wonder what

> they said about autism, other than it being a horrible condition.

> Don't they want to hear anything from actual autistic people? How can

> a group that purports to care about autism not care about autistics???

>

> Rhonda

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Actually that is pretty good.

It would require red ink to be reall effective for the circle and line thru

it. Everything else is black

>

> I had an idea for a sign last night.

>

> " Autism Speaks " covered by one of those " NO " signs, which is a

> red circle with a diagonal red slash through it. Written under

> that, it says, " We can speak for ourselves! "

>

> Clay

>

[Guest guest]

Actually that is pretty good.

It would require red ink to be reall effective for the circle and line thru

it. Everything else is black

>

> I had an idea for a sign last night.

>

> " Autism Speaks " covered by one of those " NO " signs, which is a

> red circle with a diagonal red slash through it. Written under

> that, it says, " We can speak for ourselves! "

>

> Clay

>

[Guest guest]

That sounds like a great idea. Of course, the Chairman of NBC probably won't

stop funding as I believe he founded the organization, but if we started to

call up the advertising partners frequently, that would work very, very

well. I know that I and a few others did something of that nature with

Kellogg's association with Autism Speaks, and if we kept vigilant we could

continue doing this. Also, we may want to consider finding some means of

pre-emptively informing organizations of the negative aspects of Autism

Speaks before they associate with them publically, perhaps by some letter

sent out to various organizations that they might partner with in the

future.

Ari

>

> I love the idea for the sign!

>

> In addition to the sign, I suggest a permanent call-in campaign: at

> some time or another, every one of us who can speak should dial the

> " Autism Speaks " office answering-machine (telephone ) and

> leave a message like this: " My name is [name] — I am calling from

> [location and/or phone-number] — I have autism, speech, friends, a

> home, and a job. I speak for myself: you do not speak for me. "

>

> I have just called and left a message of this kind: if I get a

> response, I'll share it here (so we can discuss it and take

> appropriate action: e.g., if a " professional " from the organization

> phones back and talks to me in baby-talk — as an autism " professional "

> once did — then we may wish to write letters of complaint to the

> public-relations department of " Autism Speaks " and also to the

> public-relations departments of the corporations and famous people

> that fund " Autism Speaks. " )

>

> We may wish to more-or-less take turns on this sort of thing — each

> day or week, one or more people could decide to: /a/ call the number,

> /b/ leave a message of the kind shown above, and /c/ state on the

> listserv that s/he has done this ... and then /d/ report back to the

> listserv on anything " Autism Speaks " says in reply (so that we can

> plan and perform follow-up actions as necessary: letters of complaint,

> or whatever else seems indicated).

> If " Autism Speaks " keeps getting calls from quite a few autistics

> who speak (once a week or more often, with different autistics calling

> each week), this should at least upset them

>

> Note that anyone, anywhere, can also e-mail the organization at

> contactus@... — and (better yet) anyone, anywhere, can

> also post to the organization's message-board at

> http://www.talkautism.com/sponsors/autismspeaks/HelpWanted.aspx

> (Yes, I've just posted a message there myself — care to post yours?)

> If the organization removes these messages, we should complain:

> again, not just to the organization's PR people but ALSO to the folks

> who fund the organization. (These would include the chairman of NBC,

> who gives " Autism Speaks " a lot of money because he has an autistic

> grandchild. If we state to NBC and others (the news-media?) that we,

> our families, our friends, and (if we can swing this) our co-workers

> boycott NBC because of " Autism Speaks' " persistent inappropriate

> behaviors, this may have an impact or may at least embarrass some of

> the folks in charge.

>

>

> Kate Gladstone

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That could be done fairly easily, particularly if a lot were ordered that

whoever was doing this could buy in bulk.

>

> Joe Mele wrote:

>

> > Actually that is pretty good.

>

> > It would require red ink to be real effective for the

> > circle and line thru it. Everything else is black.

>

> Right, and y'know, NTs would be more impressed if the

> signs were professionally done, not hand-lettered.

>

> Clay

>

>

> >

>

> > > I had an idea for a sign last night.

>

> > > " Autism Speaks " covered by one of those " NO " signs, which is

> > > a red circle with a diagonal red slash through it. Written

> > > under that, it says, " We can speak for ourselves! "

>

> > > Clay

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have volunteered for political campaigns.

The first rule is all signs(that are carried by people) should be hand done.

You DON'T want it to look " professional " machine made. You want it to look

like that person just was so motivated by his passion he just went and made

a sign.

Campaigns often have volunteers to come and make all sorts of signs then

hand them out at rallies.

>

> Joe Mele wrote:

>

> > Actually that is pretty good.

>

> > It would require red ink to be real effective for the

> > circle and line thru it. Everything else is black.

>

> Right, and y'know, NTs would be more impressed if the

> signs were professionally done, not hand-lettered.

>

> Clay

>

>

> >

>

> > > I had an idea for a sign last night.

>

> > > " Autism Speaks " covered by one of those " NO " signs, which is

> > > a red circle with a diagonal red slash through it. Written

> > > under that, it says, " We can speak for ourselves! "

>

> > > Clay

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

They just removed me from the talk autism helpwanted

[Guest guest]

nice but one suggestion

make the autism speaks logo smaller.

So it can be seen and understood by those who dont know the name. This

should go on blogs and websites

>

> Well, I've just uploaded a sign —

> go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AutAdvo/files/ and look for

> a file added today (September 7, 2006).

>

> Though I made this on a computer (breaking the " first rule " that Joe

> has now told us),

> Joe or others can produce home-made copies by hand.

>

>

> Kate Gladstone

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok

clay

give me a day or so to put it together. pricng etc

I have some pressing matters.

I am thinking the event at the ball game would be good.

>

> I like it, Kate, and am glad you are able to do such work.

> Uh, gonna have to agree with Joe about something, it's good

> that you put in the puzzle logo, but it should be smaller,

> and the " Autism Speaks " larger, and, I think the diagonal is

> supposed to go the other direction. Um, one more small thing,

> there should be an exclamation point after " ourselves " . It

> would be really great if you would make a few changes.

>

> Clay

>

> PS. Joe, it would be hard to do handlettering when you have

> the red " NO " symbol on top of the " Autism Speaks " words, right?

> If you want to order some signs made up, let me know what they

> cost, and I'll help out with that. Yes, I mean it. Can send

> via PayPal.

>

>

> Kate wrote:

>

> > Well, I've just uploaded a sign —

> > go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AutAdvo/files/ and

> > look for a file added today (September 7, 2006).

>

> > Though I made this on a computer (breaking the " first rule "

> > that Joe has now told us), Joe or others can produce home-made

> > copies by hand.

>

> > Kate Gladstone

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

What event at the ball game?

A ballgame type event sounds like a great idea though. Lots of cameras.

Someone should get some pamphlets printed up though too to answer questions

of any reporters or observers.

>

> Ok

> clay

>

> give me a day or so to put it together. pricng etc

> I have some pressing matters.

>

> I am thinking the event at the ball game would be good.

>

>

> On 9/7/06, Clay <mooncatadams@... <mooncatadams%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

> >

> > I like it, Kate, and am glad you are able to do such work.

> > Uh, gonna have to agree with Joe about something, it's good

> > that you put in the puzzle logo, but it should be smaller,

> > and the " Autism Speaks " larger, and, I think the diagonal is

> > supposed to go the other direction. Um, one more small thing,

> > there should be an exclamation point after " ourselves " . It

> > would be really great if you would make a few changes.

> >

> > Clay

> >

> > PS. Joe, it would be hard to do handlettering when you have

> > the red " NO " symbol on top of the " Autism Speaks " words, right?

> > If you want to order some signs made up, let me know what they

> > cost, and I'll help out with that. Yes, I mean it. Can send

> > via PayPal.

> >

> >

> > Kate wrote:

> >

> > > Well, I've just uploaded a sign —

> > > go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AutAdvo/files/ and

> > > look for a file added today (September 7, 2006).

> >

> > > Though I made this on a computer (breaking the " first rule "

> > > that Joe has now told us), Joe or others can produce home-made

> > > copies by hand.

> >

> > > Kate Gladstone

> >

> >

> >

>

> --

> Borland Technology Partner

> FileMaker Solution Alliance Associate Member

> London Number

> +44 (0)20 8090 4340.

> Toll Free US 1-

> www.fmplugin.net

> www.melesystems.com

> www.youseful.com

> forums.youseful.net

>

>

[Guest guest]

They are having an event of c11 tv station playing the NBC people for autism

speaks at shea stadium

>

> What event at the ball game?

>

> A ballgame type event sounds like a great idea though. Lots of cameras.

> Someone should get some pamphlets printed up though too to answer

> questions

> of any reporters or observers.

>

>

>

> >

> > Ok

> > clay

> >

> > give me a day or so to put it together. pricng etc

> > I have some pressing matters.

> >

> > I am thinking the event at the ball game would be good.

> >

> >

> > On 9/7/06, Clay <mooncatadams@...<mooncatadams%40gmail.com>>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > I like it, Kate, and am glad you are able to do such work.

> > > Uh, gonna have to agree with Joe about something, it's good

> > > that you put in the puzzle logo, but it should be smaller,

> > > and the " Autism Speaks " larger, and, I think the diagonal is

> > > supposed to go the other direction. Um, one more small thing,

> > > there should be an exclamation point after " ourselves " . It

> > > would be really great if you would make a few changes.

> > >

> > > Clay

> > >

> > > PS. Joe, it would be hard to do handlettering when you have

> > > the red " NO " symbol on top of the " Autism Speaks " words, right?

> > > If you want to order some signs made up, let me know what they

> > > cost, and I'll help out with that. Yes, I mean it. Can send

> > > via PayPal.

> > >

> > >

> > > Kate wrote:

> > >

> > > > Well, I've just uploaded a sign —

> > > > go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AutAdvo/files/ and

> > > > look for a file added today (September 7, 2006).

> > >

> > > > Though I made this on a computer (breaking the " first rule "

> > > > that Joe has now told us), Joe or others can produce home-made

> > > > copies by hand.

> > >

> > > > Kate Gladstone

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > --

> > Borland Technology Partner

> > FileMaker Solution Alliance Associate Member

> > London Number

> > +44 (0)20 8090 4340.

> > Toll Free US 1-

> > www.fmplugin.net

> > www.melesystems.com

> > www.youseful.com

> > forums.youseful.net

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I've put up a new graphic, incorporating Joe's and Clay's suggestions.

By the way — although " Autism Speaks " didn't remove my own message,

they did post (on their site) a reply so incredibly stupid that it

actually suggests a lack (on their part) of the ability to read.

Here follow my message, their reply, and my reply (just now) to

their reply.

http://www.talkautism.com/sponsors/autismspeaks/HelpWanted.aspx?Page=Response & id\

=2149

[original message headers:]

need to know

Name: Kate Gladstone

Category: OTHER

City: Albany

State: NY

Date: 9/7/2006 5:59:31 AM

Feedback: 2

post reply

Requester Subject

Name: Kate Gladstone

Date: 9/7/2006 5:59:31 AM My husband and I each have a diagnosis of

autism. We also own our own home and have profitable, fulfilling

careers. How does " Autism Speaks " speak for us?

Name Reply

Name: TA Administrator

Date: 9/7/2006

HelpWanted is not intended as a forum for political commentary… yet to

help families and individuals access needed resources. There are many

autism message boards (many have listed themselves on ExpertFind

resource directory) which are more appropriate forums for this

inquiry. We hope you understand. Also, please feel to contact the

organization directly at info@....

Name: Kate Gladstone

Date: 9/7/2006

Because my message contained no political commentary, it looks as if

you've misunderstood what I actually asked. That does not suggest that

" Autism Speaks " can effectively and accurately speak for someone. I

hope you can understand.

I don't intend to post any further messages there, folks —

though I really wonder why " Autism Speaks " would tell anyone that

other groups provide " more appropriate forums " (than " Autism Speaks " )

for an inquiry about just how " Autism Speaks " speaks for autistic

people.

(To put it plainly:

I asked " Autism Speaks " what [if anything] " Autism Speaks " does

that would relate to someone in my situation — and " Autism Speaks "

replied: " We can't answer that question because it's political: so ask

someone else, don't ask us! " )

Even if they remove my own reply-to-a-reply (I imagine they probably

will remove it), I suspect they won't remove their own message ...

which likely means they won't remove the message from me that their

message " answered. "

If my message and their non-answer " answer " both stay up there,

" Autism Speaks " will look pretty darned stupid to anyone who reads my

message and the organization's " answer. "

Kate Gladstone

[Guest guest]

it's just a name autism speaks thy are a genetic none

profite group looking to find a way of knowing what

causes and how to fix autism and better treatment for

those that need it.just like wal-mart why is it called

wal-mart the owner name was sam why not sams mart but

it called wal-mart or starbucks coffe i have never

seen a star there but that what thy call them selfs

starbucks.when i called to day thy told me alist of

other group for info that thy are all about research

not one on one group talk.......

--- Kate Gladstone

wrote:

> I've put up a new graphic, incorporating Joe's and

> Clay's suggestions.

>

> By the way — although " Autism Speaks " didn't remove

> my own message,

> they did post (on their site) a reply so incredibly

> stupid that it

> actually suggests a lack (on their part) of the

> ability to read.

> Here follow my message, their reply, and my

> reply (just now) to

> their reply.

>

>

>

http://www.talkautism.com/sponsors/autismspeaks/HelpWanted.aspx?Page=Response & id\

=2149

>

> [original message headers:]

>

> need to know

> Name: Kate Gladstone

> Category: OTHER

> City: Albany

> State: NY

> Date: 9/7/2006 5:59:31 AM

> Feedback: 2

> post reply

>

> Requester Subject

> Name: Kate Gladstone

> Date: 9/7/2006 5:59:31 AM My husband and I each have

> a diagnosis of

> autism. We also own our own home and have

> profitable, fulfilling

> careers. How does " Autism Speaks " speak for us?

>

> Name Reply

> Name: TA Administrator

> Date: 9/7/2006

> HelpWanted is not intended as a forum for political

> commentary… yet to

> help families and individuals access needed

> resources. There are many

> autism message boards (many have listed themselves

> on ExpertFind

> resource directory) which are more appropriate

> forums for this

> inquiry. We hope you understand. Also, please feel

> to contact the

> organization directly at info@....

>

> Name: Kate Gladstone

> Date: 9/7/2006

> Because my message contained no political

> commentary, it looks as if

> you've misunderstood what I actually asked. That

> does not suggest that

> " Autism Speaks " can effectively and accurately speak

> for someone. I

> hope you can understand.

>

>

>

> I don't intend to post any further messages

> there, folks —

> though I really wonder why " Autism Speaks " would

> tell anyone that

> other groups provide " more appropriate forums " (than

> " Autism Speaks " )

> for an inquiry about just how " Autism Speaks " speaks

> for autistic

> people.

>

> (To put it plainly:

> I asked " Autism Speaks " what [if anything]

> " Autism Speaks " does

> that would relate to someone in my situation — and

> " Autism Speaks "

> replied: " We can't answer that question because it's

> political: so ask

> someone else, don't ask us! " )

>

>

> Even if they remove my own reply-to-a-reply (I

> imagine they probably

> will remove it), I suspect they won't remove their

> own message ...

> which likely means they won't remove the message

> from me that their

> message " answered. "

> If my message and their non-answer " answer "

> both stay up there,

> " Autism Speaks " will look pretty darned stupid to

> anyone who reads my

> message and the organization's " answer. "

>

>

>

> Kate Gladstone

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

who wants to come with me to the ball park?

>

> >Clay wrote:

> >I don't know if this link will break, but if so, maybe someone

> >can use it to make a TinyUrl? (To see new graphic)

> >

> ><

>

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/cKQARR6EToU3FOLVx4JFgpnzVoB-4W8sIX61xwUmI7EBrfCX--X\

pqEyeBrpkGnxNUbGosxTdy2y4BbfwZXJWQg7Pqc7rfyLrauejRw/SpeakForOurselves%21.jpg

> >

>

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/cKQARR6EToU3FOLVx4JFgpnzVoB-4W8sIX61xwUmI7EBrfCX--X\

pqEyeBrpkGnxNUbGosxTdy2y4BbfwZXJWQg7Pqc7rfyLrauejRw/SpeakForOurselves%21.jpg

>

> Here's a tiny version: http://tinyurl.com/qgo3m

>

> Jane

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> it's just a name autism speaks thy are a genetic none profite group

> looking to find a way of knowing what causes and how to fix autism and

> better treatment for those that need it.

A name is rarely, if ever, " just a name " . (If your last name were

Hitler, would you just disregard that fact, or would you look into

changing it?)

More to the point, though, it's simply not correct for them to call

themselves " Autism Speaks " when none of them are autistics. That would

be kind of like if the NAACP's board of directors were all white, or

NOW's board of directors were all men.

> just like wal-mart why is it called wal-mart the owner name was sam

> why not sams mart but it called wal-mart

The store is named after the name who created it. That's another matter.

> or starbucks coffe i have never seen a star there but that what thy

> call them selfs starbucks.

This is also a very different situation. Starbucks is named after the

character Starbuck from the novel " Moby Dick " . Starbuck enjoyed coffee,

hence the name of the coffee shop.

> when i called to day thy told me alist of other group for info that

> thy are all about research not one on one group talk.......

How is this relevant?

[Guest guest]

Any person and any organization that agrees with the point of my

graphic has my permission to use it.

Kate Gladstone

[Guest guest]

I *tried* to put my graphic up into the Treehouse files, but got a

message saying that I could not do so because I had not joined the

Treehouse group.

?!?!?!?!

Kate Gladstone

[Guest guest]

> I *tried* to put my graphic up into the Treehouse files, but got a

> message saying that I could not do so because I had not joined the

> Treehouse group.

Yahoo!'s servers must be misbehaving again. It certainly isn't because

of any changes I made to the group's settings or anything like that.

--Parrish

[Guest guest]

Actually, I would suggest continuing to send people there to speak calmly,

reasonably and persuasively to those that frequent the forum. We might pick

up a few converts to our ideas, and we'll force at least some of Autism

Speaks's audience and personnel to pay attention to our existence, at the

very least.

Ari

>

> Kate wrote:

>

> > > By the way — although " Autism Speaks " didn't remove my own

> > > message, they did post (on their site) a reply so incredibly

> > > stupid that it actually suggests a lack (on their part) of

> > > the ability to read. Here follow my message, their reply,

> > > and my reply (just now) to their reply.

>

> Yeah, I just posted there too.

> Let's see if they leave that there.

>

>

>

>

http://www.talkautism.com/sponsors/autismspeaks/HelpWanted.aspx?Page=Response & id\

=2149

>

> Clay

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Re:

>

http://www.talkautism.com/sponsors/autismspeaks/HelpWanted.aspx?>Page=Response & i\

d=2149

Go there to see Clay's message (still in place!) AND a very thankful

reply (to my message) from the mom of an autistic kid.

This makes me agree with Ari that we should keep sending people over.

If each of us posted once every few weeks (and got supportive

friends/family/co-workers/employees/employers to post, too — " My son's

Cub Scout troop leader has autism and he was voted Troop Leader of the

Year " or " My grandma has autism; she is a terrific grandma and she has

her own Internet business " or whatever else people can truly say about

us), the resulting constant stream of good info would counter (and

would remove the credibility of) the " Autism Speaks " pravda that

" those people are so horrible that we must extirpate all their ways of

thinking — and, as soon as possible, extirpate all of *them° — so that

their continued existence does not get in the way of us REAL people. "

Beyond the above, future messages can and should point out the BIG

internal contradiction of the " Autism Speaks " belief-system:

though " Autism Speaks " publicly claims that it wants to enable

autistic people " to communicate " and so forth, when an autistic person

DOES communicate (or achieves other supposedly " non-autistic " things

such as having a job, heading a family, or doing anything else

important) " Autism Speaks " says " Oh, well, THAT person couldn't have

autism! " — in other words, " Autism Speaks " assumes that, whenever an

autistic person gets the results that " Autism Speaks " publicly

*claims* it wants autistic people to get (communication, a decent

life, and whatever), this achievement by the autistic person just

means s/he couldn't have needed " Autism Speaks " in the first place

(because, according to " Autism Speaks " reasoning, " people who have

autism can't do that stuff — so people who learn to do that stuff

cannot really and truly have autism. " )

This gets contradictory (and therefore can really embarrass

" Autism Speaks " when we point out) because (as we should point out)

some of the " Autism Speaks " oficers/members and officers will very

proudly tell you things like " I have a kid/grandkid with autism, and

we worked with him/her, and now s/he can and does _______ [fill in the

blank: 'talk/hold down a job/make and keep friends'/etc.]. But when

you ask these proud parents/grandparents: " So does that mean your

kid/grandkid isn't autistic or never was? " , they say " No, of course

s/he is still autistic, always was, and probably always will be " In

other words: if you had autism and achieved something with autism and

your family had to do with " Autism Speaks, " that makes you " still

autistic " — if you/your family achieved the same things with autism

but just didn't happen to achieve them through some means approved by

" Autism Speaks, " in the eyes of " Autism Speaks " that makes you " not

autistic " ...

.... make that logic evident, and sooner or later it says a lot against

" Autism Speaks. "

Final suggestion:

the name of the organization " Autism Speaks " uses an

audiory/verbal metaphor — I think the name of a counter-organization

should use a *visual* metaphor. For instance, to counter " Autism

Speaks " we could have " Autistics Show Up " or " Autistics Shed Light "

(or something similar).

What do you think?

Kate Gladstone

[Guest guest]

At 01:29 PM 9/8/2006, Kate Gladstone wrote:

>Re:

>

> >

>

http://www.talkautism.com/sponsors/autismspeaks/HelpWanted.aspx?>Page=Response & i\

d=2149

>

>Go there to see Clay's message (still in place!) AND a very thankful

>reply (to my message) from the mom of an autistic kid.

yuk... did you check out her site?

" Ours is a success story made possible by A LOT of prayer, A LOT of

hard WORK, many special PEOPLE, a special DIET, awesome NUTRITIONAL

supplements and a BIG HOPE for a lost little girl. "

" There is Hope!

Taking glyconutrient supplements were the key to Kami becoming whole

and well again.....

If you would like more information about these glyconutrients and

their potential to help children and adults alike, please

<http://kamisjourney.com/contact/>contact me. At one time, I felt

hopeless and alone, but someone shared this hope with me. You are not

alone - and we are here to help. "

-jypsy

________________________________

[Guest guest]

At 01:45 PM 9/8/2006, Clay wrote:

>Um, it isn't there anymore, nor is their reply to your original, nor

>your reply to theirs. I think we need to - - PERSEVERE!!!

>

>Clay

It's still there Clay, go directly here:

http://www.talkautism.com/sponsors/autismspeaks/HelpWanted.aspx?Page=Response & id\

=2149

________________________________

[Guest guest]

No matter what stuff Dawn's treacley " success story " site believes in

(I hasten to add that I DO NOT use, HAVE NEVER USED, and WOULD NOT use

what that site recommends — let alone call it " curing " !), the very

existence of her message will *still* seriously discomfit the " Autism

Speaks " pravda-purveyors.

Why?

/1/ By even just replying to a message of the kind I left ( " autistic

adult - happy and productive " ), Dawn (intentionally or otherwise) rubs

" Autism Speaks' " nose on the fact that WE EXIST.

/2/ By replying with thanks and praise, Dawn makes it even worse for

the " Autism Speaks " people: because " Autism Speaks " does not want

anyone on their message-site (or anywhere) praising a message from

(GASP! HORRORS!) an adult autistic [*married* to (GASP! HORRORS!)

*another* adult autistic!] whose message has even so much as *hinted*

that the writer does *not* experience constant, unbounded, dog-like

adoration and worship for the works of " Autism Speaks "

/3/ " Autism Speaks " *surely* does not want anyone saying on their site

what Dawn said: in effect, that she hopes her kid grows up just like

me and my husband. (If people get the idea that autistic adults

anything other than vegetate — " Autism Speaks " loses its reason for

existence.)

I don't so much mind that she talks about " cure " because /a/ her

message will annoy and hinder " Autism Speaks " much more than her use

of the word " cure " might possibly please or help them, and /b/ the

" cured " autistics I've met (described as " cured " by themselves or by

others) still appeared, to me, pretty darned autistic! — perhaps

" cured " in the sense that one cures leather, not in the sense that one

" cures " a disease? (curing a cow-skin to make leather doesn't " make it

healthy, " certainly doesn't change it into anything but a cow-skin —

it just makes the cow-skin more resistant to externally inflicted

damage/stresses & also more pleasant for most people to deal with ...

things that I definitely want for myself & that I would not consider

the " cure " or the " removal " of a " disease " of any sort.)

But in any case Jypsy has a point: our messages to " Autism Speaks "

need to make clear that we do not see ourselves as " un-whole " or

" lost, " we do not have a " disease, " etc.) The next time I write a

message there, I'll try to make that clearer. (I thought that my

message had made it clear by mentioning two happy and productive adult

autistics, but apparently not.

By the way:

/1/ some time, a message-board poster should oh-so- " innocently " ask

just why on Earth " Autism Speaks " has far, far fewer successful adult

autistics " out there " (publicly known/on its board/in its

membership/etc.) than certain other autism organizations have? (here

name some of the no- " cure " groups) Very " innocently " ask if this means

that " Autism Speaks " has less success than other organizations when it

comes to educating (and gaining the loyalty of) autistic people

worldwide ... (who wants to post that as the next pessage to " Autism

Speaks " ?)

/2/ we should try hard to find if any successful/prominent autistic

adults who oppose " Autism Speaks " grew up in families that adhered to

recommendations that " Autism Speaks " make (uch as " cure " -by-torture

and so on) — if any such people exist, and if they post about their

experiences and about why " Autism Speaks " cannot speak for THEM, this

could REALLY embarrass " Autism Speaks. "

Kate Gladstone

[Guest guest]

On the contrary, it helps them. It sets our success on their terms. It would

be very easy for them know to claim that autistics reside on their board and

get along with the other members, that we're all just part of the same

" Autism Speaks " happy family. No, we need to make the case against cure on

that board, against quack ideas and against Autism Speaks' ideas there. In

short, we have to work to get the people on there to disagree with what

Autism Speaks does yet do it in such a way that will not be so overtly

confrontational that it won't serve any purpose. We have to be constructive,

yet effective, and not get used.

>

> No matter what stuff Dawn's treacley " success story " site believes in

> (I hasten to add that I DO NOT use, HAVE NEVER USED, and WOULD NOT use

> what that site recommends — let alone call it " curing " !), the very

> existence of her message will *still* seriously discomfit the " Autism

> Speaks " pravda-purveyors.

>

> Why?

>

> /1/ By even just replying to a message of the kind I left ( " autistic

> adult - happy and productive " ), Dawn (intentionally or otherwise) rubs

> " Autism Speaks' " nose on the fact that WE EXIST.

>

> /2/ By replying with thanks and praise, Dawn makes it even worse for

> the " Autism Speaks " people: because " Autism Speaks " does not want

> anyone on their message-site (or anywhere) praising a message from

> (GASP! HORRORS!) an adult autistic [*married* to (GASP! HORRORS!)

> *another* adult autistic!] whose message has even so much as *hinted*

> that the writer does *not* experience constant, unbounded, dog-like

> adoration and worship for the works of " Autism Speaks "

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, thanks, Ari! I look forward to your message making the points

you have made here:

> ... we need to make the case against cure on

> that board, against quack ideas and against Autism Speaks' ideas there. In

> short, we have to work to get the people on there to disagree with what

> Autism Speaks does yet do it in such a way that will not be so overtly

> confrontational that it won't serve any purpose. We have to be constructive,

> yet effective, and not get used.

.... I look forward to seeing your message that will do this.

Kate Gladstone