Re: Re: Have you been threatened that if you don't help them, then they won't help you?

[Guest guest]

Hi there again. Please don't take my words as a lecture or anything like that.

It is in the human DNA to want to be loved because it indicates a from of

safety. All mammals crave some type of safety, that's why we crave

community/inclusion/identity, etc. It is perfectly normal to want to know that a

" mother " loves us, unfortunately that didn't happen. Also, children internalize

the words of the " parent " and feel that there is something wrong with the child

if the parent doesn't love them. Reality is that couldn't be further from the

truth.

I know many people that have been tortured by their relationships with Narcs

and Bp. I tell them two things.

1) People can only affect us when they control something we want. It also must

be something so unique that we can't receive it elsewhere. While you may crave

" motherly love " you can get it, it just won't be from the Nada. She doesn't have

a monopoly on love and nurturing. Give it to yourself first and then you will

attract others that will give it to you.

2) To defeat a lie from someone else you must be willing to confront a truth

about yourself. Please don't think I'm blaming you for anything. Some people

view it as a weakness to admit they have an emotional need. Well DAMMIT! We have

them whether we choose to admit them or not. What emotional need does the

situation provide OR what emotional fear does staying in the situation help you

to avoid?

I'm no psychologist but I feel that perhaps you want closure or validation

from her. You may want her to one day follow through with the help. That may

signify that she is saying " You are worthwhile and you do deserve love " . I say

that because of my own experience. Up until recently, I attracted people into my

life that were very similar to Nada. I allowed them to abuse me and everything.

Their actions hurt more than it realistically should have but it was more than

just their actions. I wanted someone, once and for all, to state that I am

worthy of love and respect. That is why I stayed with them so long and felt

crushed when it didn't work out. I wasn't living in the moment but replaying

years old routines from the past.

Hope this is helpful in some way.

" bunny.montgomery " wrote:

Thank you all--reading the responses before has been really helpful.

I am saddened and angered to hear how your mothers have treated you,

but I appreciate you sharing because there is comfort in knowing that

other people have been dealing with this. had an

interesting point about if my nada never follows through with the

help I have needed then it's not actually that I am afraid of losing

her *help* (since you can't lose something you don't have) but I am

afraid of losing something else. (As a side note, my nada also makes

a big scene of offering help any time anyone else is around--and the

help is non-existent).

After reading your responses it seems more accurate that I am afraid

of losing the HOPE that one day she will help. That one day she will

no longer be ill and will swoop in like a fairy godmother and be the

kind of mother I have always hoped she would be. It's really pretty

silly--on one level I know it's not going to happen but I haven't

completely accepted that nada is who she is and will never be

anything more. I am ashamed to say this but when I am really sick, I

want my mother (not actually my mother but the mother I wish she

could be).

Girlscout Cowboy, neglecting a child who needs medical help is

indefensible. A good friend of mine has fibroymyalgia, and I know it

is serious. It's good you FINALLY were able to get help (even if you

had to do it all by yourself).

Bunny

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

P.Bear, you have made so many insightful points that hit home for me. I too have

fears that once peope get to know me they won't like me. Or that they'll turn

out to be abusers that I can't trust. We have alot in common it seems. I am

working with a therapist right now and have made alot of progress. Have you

considered that as well? Please don't think I'm intruding but there are many

therapists that are great and affordable as well. I just want some healing for

you and I both.

p_bear16 wrote: Hi Bunny & ,

Thanks for writing that. I find it helpful. It made me stop and

think and feel for a sec. And realise that I alternate between

having hope that my mother (or someone) will love me and that I'm

worthwhile, and knowing that realistically it won't come from mum.

I'm still working on the bit about having that love be from myself

for myself, and allowing it from other people who care about me.

And regarding no. 2, for me I know I'm afraid of " finding out " that

other people (potential friends) think I'm worthless too. So I

don't socialise with people (which is the real reason why I don't

have friends). [sigh], I'm still working on taking the risk.

P.Bear

> Thank you all--reading the responses before has been

really helpful.

> I am saddened and angered to hear how your mothers have treated

you,

> but I appreciate you sharing because there is comfort in knowing

that

> other people have been dealing with this. had an

> interesting point about if my nada never follows through with the

> help I have needed then it's not actually that I am afraid of

losing

> her *help* (since you can't lose something you don't have) but I

am

> afraid of losing something else. (As a side note, my nada also

makes

> a big scene of offering help any time anyone else is around--and

the

> help is non-existent).

>

> After reading your responses it seems more accurate that I am

afraid

> of losing the HOPE that one day she will help. That one day she

will

> no longer be ill and will swoop in like a fairy godmother and be

the

> kind of mother I have always hoped she would be. It's really

pretty

> silly--on one level I know it's not going to happen but I haven't

> completely accepted that nada is who she is and will never be

> anything more. I am ashamed to say this but when I am really sick,

I

> want my mother (not actually my mother but the mother I wish she

> could be).

>

> Girlscout Cowboy, neglecting a child who needs medical help is

> indefensible. A good friend of mine has fibroymyalgia, and I know

it

> is serious. It's good you FINALLY were able to get help (even if

you

> had to do it all by yourself).

>

> Bunny

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Great. Maybe we could keep eachother apprised of our individual progress. It

just seems like we face some very common challenges. There is a website that you

may want to visit. Its called adultsurvivorsofchildabuse.com. It has been very

helpful to me as far as learning what healthy self perspective is in contrast to

unhealthy perspective.

Well, gotta go now. Have a few chapters to study. Have an excellent day and be

good to yourself.

p_bear16 wrote:

Hi ,

Thanks, I have been working with a therapist who is friendly, and

genuinely concerned and interested in me, and helpful. This has

been a BIG help to me. I like to take things slowly though, so it's

just taking a long time to turn my life around though and get it to

how I want it to be (having friends etc). But baby steps are

definitely taking me in the right direction.

Thanks very much for your words.

P.Bear.

> > Thank you all--reading the responses before has been

> really helpful.

> > I am saddened and angered to hear how your mothers have treated

> you,

> > but I appreciate you sharing because there is comfort in knowing

> that

> > other people have been dealing with this. had an

> > interesting point about if my nada never follows through with

the

> > help I have needed then it's not actually that I am afraid of

> losing

> > her *help* (since you can't lose something you don't have) but I

> am

> > afraid of losing something else. (As a side note, my nada also

> makes

> > a big scene of offering help any time anyone else is around--and

> the

> > help is non-existent).

> >

> > After reading your responses it seems more accurate that I am

> afraid

> > of losing the HOPE that one day she will help. That one day she

> will

> > no longer be ill and will swoop in like a fairy godmother and be

> the

> > kind of mother I have always hoped she would be. It's really

> pretty

> > silly--on one level I know it's not going to happen but I

haven't

> > completely accepted that nada is who she is and will never be

> > anything more. I am ashamed to say this but when I am really

sick,

> I

> > want my mother (not actually my mother but the mother I wish she

> > could be).

> >

> > Girlscout Cowboy, neglecting a child who needs medical help is

> > indefensible. A good friend of mine has fibroymyalgia, and I

know

> it

> > is serious. It's good you FINALLY were able to get help (even if

> you

> > had to do it all by yourself).

> >

> > Bunny

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of

Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I mistyped the link. Its called Adult Survivors of Child Abuse. It originated in

Australia but there are several groups here as well. They even have phone groups

for people outside the state.

abby_doo wrote: http://www.ascasupport.org/

> >

> > Great. Maybe we could keep eachother apprised of our individual

> progress. It just seems like we face some very common challenges.

> There is a website that you may want to visit. Its called

> adultsurvivorsofchildabuse.com. It has been very helpful to me as

> far as learning what healthy self perspective is in contrast to

> unhealthy perspective.

> >

> > Well, gotta go now. Have a few chapters to study. Have an

> excellent day and be good to yourself.

> >

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hey Kiddos,

I was just catching up on this thread. I have 2 questions.

1) someone - i think said something about a Fairy God Mother.

Has anyone else heard or used that phrase in relation to their nada?

My story is that when my brother died, one of my mother's church " friends "

had a kid that would have been the same age. My mom declared herself this

child's " Fairy God Mother " and began spending a lot of time with her and a

lot of money buying her gifts.

2) Kyla said that her mother dropped everything in her life to take care of

her own mother.

My dad was bragging to me at Thanksgiving about what great care my mom is

now taking of her mother, my grandmother. My mom couldn't stand her mother

when I was growing up and I barely know the woman. What's with the sudden

shift?

Thanks, Girlscout

>

> At first, my mom was helpful when my daughter (her first grandchild)

> was born, then a year later, my second child was born, and my house

> became busy and stressful, of course.

>

> Mom used to help in the early days, and we all seemed to enjoy our

> time together. Mom was a big help one time when I got very ill and

> my husband was out of town. She came over and just took my two kids

> so I could sleep and be sick without worry about their care. That

> was a big help.

>

> I think it makes her feel needed. And I don't think she knows much

> how to relate to other people, so taking charge and being their hero

> when they're sick is a good fit for her. Gives her something to do.

>

> Now, my kids are 12 and 13, and my mom is mired in this deep

> depression. She is directing my dad (through her masterful well-

> placed word choices) to wag the finger of shame at me, and I refuse

> to be the scapegoat anymore, so our relationship has changed and

> there's tension right now. And if we get sick, we help each other.

> I don't have many occasions to need outside help with that.

>

> I also suspect she would expect me to come and take care of her

> should she fall ill, which I would do what I can, but I won't shove

> the rest of my life out of the way to be her nurse, like she did

> with her mother.

>

> -Kyla

>

>

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > Something in Katrina's posting about Loyalty jumped out at me: her

> > mother threatened that if she didn't do what the mother wanted,

> she

> > wouldn't take care of Katrina when she was ill. My nada loves

> this

> > threat even though she doesn't actually help me when I need her.

> (In

> > fairness, she did take care of us when we were sick children).

> When

> > my daughter was born, she had acid reflux but I didn't know it.

> All

> > I knew was that she wouldn't eat and cried all day. I held her,

> > rocked her, and did everything you would expect for days. I

> thought

> > I was going to crack; I finally called my mother (who was

> unemployed

> > at the time) and told her I really needed some help with this new

> > little baby and oould she come over. (She had come to the

> hospital,

> > but she had not been over to our house at all; she was mad because

> I

> > didn't let her in the delivery room). She said she would (she

> lived

> > 5 minutes away), but then she never came. When I called her that

> > evening, she said she " got busy around the house " but would come

> over

> > the next day. She never came. This happened four times (I am

> pretty

> > slow). Yet, one of the reasons I haven't gone N/C is because I am

> > afraid I will need her--which is pretty dumb considering that when

> I

> > have needed her the most she just did a victory dance and didn't

> help

> > me anyway. So here's my question: does your BPD use the threat of

> > not being around to help you out AND when you have needed your

> BPD,

> > were they at all helpful?

> >

> > Bunny

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not to sound outrageoulsy cynical but....could your mother be able to inheret

something once your grandmother passes? I hate to sound crude but Bps don't do

anything unless it will benefit themselves somehow. Don't be offended that I

suggested it please.

Girlscout Cowboy wrote: Hey Kiddos,

I was just catching up on this thread. I have 2 questions.

1) someone - i think said something about a Fairy God Mother.

Has anyone else heard or used that phrase in relation to their nada?

My story is that when my brother died, one of my mother's church " friends "

had a kid that would have been the same age. My mom declared herself this

child's " Fairy God Mother " and began spending a lot of time with her and a

lot of money buying her gifts.

2) Kyla said that her mother dropped everything in her life to take care of

her own mother.

My dad was bragging to me at Thanksgiving about what great care my mom is

now taking of her mother, my grandmother. My mom couldn't stand her mother

when I was growing up and I barely know the woman. What's with the sudden

shift?

Thanks, Girlscout

>

> At first, my mom was helpful when my daughter (her first grandchild)

> was born, then a year later, my second child was born, and my house

> became busy and stressful, of course.

>

> Mom used to help in the early days, and we all seemed to enjoy our

> time together. Mom was a big help one time when I got very ill and

> my husband was out of town. She came over and just took my two kids

> so I could sleep and be sick without worry about their care. That

> was a big help.

>

> I think it makes her feel needed. And I don't think she knows much

> how to relate to other people, so taking charge and being their hero

> when they're sick is a good fit for her. Gives her something to do.

>

> Now, my kids are 12 and 13, and my mom is mired in this deep

> depression. She is directing my dad (through her masterful well-

> placed word choices) to wag the finger of shame at me, and I refuse

> to be the scapegoat anymore, so our relationship has changed and

> there's tension right now. And if we get sick, we help each other.

> I don't have many occasions to need outside help with that.

>

> I also suspect she would expect me to come and take care of her

> should she fall ill, which I would do what I can, but I won't shove

> the rest of my life out of the way to be her nurse, like she did

> with her mother.

>

> -Kyla

>

>

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > Something in Katrina's posting about Loyalty jumped out at me: her

> > mother threatened that if she didn't do what the mother wanted,

> she

> > wouldn't take care of Katrina when she was ill. My nada loves

> this

> > threat even though she doesn't actually help me when I need her.

> (In

> > fairness, she did take care of us when we were sick children).

> When

> > my daughter was born, she had acid reflux but I didn't know it.

> All

> > I knew was that she wouldn't eat and cried all day. I held her,

> > rocked her, and did everything you would expect for days. I

> thought

> > I was going to crack; I finally called my mother (who was

> unemployed

> > at the time) and told her I really needed some help with this new

> > little baby and oould she come over. (She had come to the

> hospital,

> > but she had not been over to our house at all; she was mad because

> I

> > didn't let her in the delivery room). She said she would (she

> lived

> > 5 minutes away), but then she never came. When I called her that

> > evening, she said she " got busy around the house " but would come

> over

> > the next day. She never came. This happened four times (I am

> pretty

> > slow). Yet, one of the reasons I haven't gone N/C is because I am

> > afraid I will need her--which is pretty dumb considering that when

> I

> > have needed her the most she just did a victory dance and didn't

> help

> > me anyway. So here's my question: does your BPD use the threat of

> > not being around to help you out AND when you have needed your

> BPD,

> > were they at all helpful?

> >

> > Bunny

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ha ha , good point. Don't worry about offending me - the only way to

offend me regarding my mother is to believe her lies about me and to tell me

to suck it up because she's such a good mother gag

Knowing her, I sort of don't think it's as simple as inheriting a possession

or money. I think her reason would be more convoluted. Probably she is doing

it to try to impress someone in some convoluted way. I don't know who that

would be. . . It's even possible that she told my dad she is doing it to

prove she is a good daughter, unlike me. The way he brought it up seemed

pretty pointed.

Oh dear, I'm pontificating about her reasoning again, as Sylvia said, trying

to rationally understand an irrational mind or, in other words, as my

boyfriend likes to say, " F the Bozos. "

>

> Not to sound outrageoulsy cynical but....could your mother be able to

> inheret something once your grandmother passes? I hate to sound crude but

> Bps don't do anything unless it will benefit themselves somehow. Don't be

> offended that I suggested it please.

>

> Girlscout Cowboy <girlscout.cowboy@...<girlscout.cowboy%40gmail.com>>

> wrote: Hey Kiddos,

> I was just catching up on this thread. I have 2 questions.

>

> 1) someone - i think said something about a Fairy God Mother.

> Has anyone else heard or used that phrase in relation to their nada?

> My story is that when my brother died, one of my mother's church " friends "

> had a kid that would have been the same age. My mom declared herself this

> child's " Fairy God Mother " and began spending a lot of time with her and a

> lot of money buying her gifts.

>

> 2) Kyla said that her mother dropped everything in her life to take care

> of

> her own mother.

> My dad was bragging to me at Thanksgiving about what great care my mom is

> now taking of her mother, my grandmother. My mom couldn't stand her mother

> when I was growing up and I barely know the woman. What's with the sudden

> shift?

>

> Thanks, Girlscout

>

> On 3/30/08, kylaboo728 <kylaboo728@... <kylaboo728%40yahoo.com>>

> wrote:

> >

> > At first, my mom was helpful when my daughter (her first grandchild)

> > was born, then a year later, my second child was born, and my house

> > became busy and stressful, of course.

> >

> > Mom used to help in the early days, and we all seemed to enjoy our

> > time together. Mom was a big help one time when I got very ill and

> > my husband was out of town. She came over and just took my two kids

> > so I could sleep and be sick without worry about their care. That

> > was a big help.

> >

> > I think it makes her feel needed. And I don't think she knows much

> > how to relate to other people, so taking charge and being their hero

> > when they're sick is a good fit for her. Gives her something to do.

> >

> > Now, my kids are 12 and 13, and my mom is mired in this deep

> > depression. She is directing my dad (through her masterful well-

> > placed word choices) to wag the finger of shame at me, and I refuse

> > to be the scapegoat anymore, so our relationship has changed and

> > there's tension right now. And if we get sick, we help each other.

> > I don't have many occasions to need outside help with that.

> >

> > I also suspect she would expect me to come and take care of her

> > should she fall ill, which I would do what I can, but I won't shove

> > the rest of my life out of the way to be her nurse, like she did

> > with her mother.

> >

> > -Kyla

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > >

> > > Something in Katrina's posting about Loyalty jumped out at me: her

> > > mother threatened that if she didn't do what the mother wanted,

> > she

> > > wouldn't take care of Katrina when she was ill. My nada loves

> > this

> > > threat even though she doesn't actually help me when I need her.

> > (In

> > > fairness, she did take care of us when we were sick children).

> > When

> > > my daughter was born, she had acid reflux but I didn't know it.

> > All

> > > I knew was that she wouldn't eat and cried all day. I held her,

> > > rocked her, and did everything you would expect for days. I

> > thought

> > > I was going to crack; I finally called my mother (who was

> > unemployed

> > > at the time) and told her I really needed some help with this new

> > > little baby and oould she come over. (She had come to the

> > hospital,

> > > but she had not been over to our house at all; she was mad because

> > I

> > > didn't let her in the delivery room). She said she would (she

> > lived

> > > 5 minutes away), but then she never came. When I called her that

> > > evening, she said she " got busy around the house " but would come

> > over

> > > the next day. She never came. This happened four times (I am

> > pretty

> > > slow). Yet, one of the reasons I haven't gone N/C is because I am

> > > afraid I will need her--which is pretty dumb considering that when

> > I

> > > have needed her the most she just did a victory dance and didn't

> > help

> > > me anyway. So here's my question: does your BPD use the threat of

> > > not being around to help you out AND when you have needed your

> > BPD,

> > > were they at all helpful?

> > >

> > > Bunny

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Whoa! That's it. Funny, because according to her, her mother is senile.

>

> Hey, Girlscout!

>

> You asked " My dad was bragging to me at Thanksgiving about what

> great care my mom is now taking of her mother, my grandmother. My

> mom couldn't stand her mother when I was growing up and I barely

> know the woman. What's with the sudden shift? "

>

> My grandmother was an alcoholic when my mom was growing up, and I

> don't think my grandfather (who I dearly loved) was a very good

> father, either. I can't get the whole story, but he was apparently

> a rager -- and my grandmother just escaped by going blotto through

> alcohol. That certainly affected my mother.

>

> But, to attempt to " answer " the question you posed, I asked my

> therapist the same thing! I asked " Why does my mom fall all over

> herself to serve the endless demands of her mother? " My therapist

> answered -- and I'm paraphrasing here: " She's still trying

> desperately to get her mother to notice her. "

>

> -Kyla

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I get a lot of " You owe me " from my mom. Any gift, any action on her part is

followed up by that phrase. All I can say is thank God for long term care

insurance, she's going to need it. Her son won't take care of her and I may

choose not to because if she is hateful and cruel now what will she be like when

she gets really cantankerous?

Re: Have you been threatened that if you don't help

them, then they won't help you?

Yes, she's used these veiled threats since I was born. When I had my

son, she came once or twice, for a moment. I really needed help.

My husband never came home until after 9pm. And the baby was always

crying. And never slept through the night-he was up every two

hours...for several years. Probably had gut issues. But, I didn't

know it. But, when I called my mother, she wouldn't come. If you

really need a BPD, or make a request for help, they aren't able to

give it. She had nothing else to do, she didn't work. But, she

refused.

I developed depression. My baby developed flathead. He favored one

side of his head. But, everytime that I'd touch his head to move

it, he'd wake up screaming again. It was horrible. Looking back,

I'd have not listened to the " don't let your baby sleep on his belly "

crap. That's left so many children having problems with head

development and shape. It also halts the development in other areas,

they need to be on their bellys and begin to lift themselves and

crawl. My son skipped crawling. An extremely important

developmental step. But, that's another story.

I vowed never to have another child. Because, my husband was so

severely BPD and un-supportive and so was my mother. And it was so

hard. My husband would not allow the neighbor lady, who asked to

help me. He wouldn't allow anyone to be emotionally supportive of

me. Looking back. That's what it was...almost some sort of weird

punishment for my wanting a baby. Or, for my even existing. He was

a horrible husband. I'm so glad I left him.

But, my mother seems to mean well. She seems to want to help me.

And on some emotional level, I think that she really does.

Yet, underneath is always this veiled threat and an emotional

blackmail... I'm helping you, Because, I want you to take care of me.

Or, I'm seeing that you're not alone...because, I don't want to be

alone right now. She'll actually come right out and say it. I want

to give you this money...but, you'll have to take care of me...I'm

getting older. I'd rather not have the money. Than, be threatened or

manipulated with it.

In fact, she's been driving me crazy with this pretending that she's

coming over to help me(to be with me so I won't be alone) which is

really because, she doesn't want to be alone with herself. I've told

her many times. " I like to be alone. I like myself. I have alot to

get done today. " She doesn't really care how I feel, or that I want

to be left alone for awhile. Or, that she's totally interupted my

schedule for work. She keeps insisting that she's doing me a favor.

And expecting me to fall in line with her idea of my schedule. And,

in fact, I find it rude that she expects it. I'm sorry. But, I

don't want to be with her 24/7. And I don't want to follow her

schedule. I don't want to move into her house.

I have to park my car away from my house so that I can work in my

garden, or do some other work that needs to be done. So, that she

won't sit in my house, pretending that she's helping me. It's really

all about her.

>

> Hi,

>

> Something in Katrina's posting about Loyalty jumped out at me: her

> mother threatened that if she didn't do what the mother wanted, she

> wouldn't take care of Katrina when she was ill. My nada loves this

> threat even though she doesn't actually help me when I need her.

(In

> fairness, she did take care of us when we were sick children).

When

> my daughter was born, she had acid reflux but I didn't know it.

All

> I knew was that she wouldn't eat and cried all day. I held her,

> rocked her, and did everything you would expect for days. I

thought

> I was going to crack; I finally called my mother (who was

unemployed

> at the time) and told her I really needed some help with this new

> little baby and oould she come over. (She had come to the

hospital,

> but she had not been over to our house at all; she was mad because

I

> didn't let her in the delivery room). She said she would (she

lived

> 5 minutes away), but then she never came. When I called her that

> evening, she said she " got busy around the house " but would come

over

> the next day. She never came. This happened four times (I am

pretty

> slow). Yet, one of the reasons I haven't gone N/C is because I am

> afraid I will need her--which is pretty dumb considering that when

I

> have needed her the most she just did a victory dance and didn't

help

> me anyway. So here's my question: does your BPD use the threat of

> not being around to help you out AND when you have needed your BPD,

> were they at all helpful?

>

> Bunny

>

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