Re: Can I play?

[Guest guest]

>to: Rhonda, Aspie wannabe

>

hey! i may not be an expert but you sound like you are asd to me. i

welcome you with open arms. i am officialy diagnosed aspie and you

have alot of the same problems i do. well welcome to the club!

natalie

[Guest guest]

I've been here a year, roundabouts. I haven't been DX'd. Part of me

wants to, but I hate being the " patient " . My physical problems keep me

in that role enough. Plus it means they'll be digging into my head,

and I don't know if I'm ready for that. A part of me fears that they

won't see me as being on the spectrum, and I KNOW I am. I hate it when

people don't believe me. Of the few people close to me that I've told

about it, one is like " you are not! " and that's that, shaking her head

at me. Another accepted it right away. Another doesn't seem to care

one way or the other. So you're different, what else is new?Another

accepted it and suddenly she understood herself as she believes she's

on the spectrum as well.

I came here wondering the same thing you are. At the time, I was 99%

sure I was Aspie. I was accepted (as you were) without being DX'd, or

without being 100% sure. Was I wanting to be part of a group? If I

did I didn't consciously think about it that way. I just wanted to

know for sure, and I thought, hey, the people here and their stories

might be able to help with that last percentage point. Right away I

felt like one of them, but I couldn't (and still can't) express it most

of the time. I don't post a lot. Well, I do but in spurts. It's the

whole processing thing and taking it all in that stymies me in this

sense. I read people's experiences or viewpoints here and in the

beginning it was like one epiphany after the other. I am so aspie (or

somewhere on the autistic spectrum, don't matter where). Even though I

didn't specifically come here to " belong " , I do feel I do, and it does

feel good.

There's still little epiphanies that excite me, but they are all

post-100% sure. As time goes on, there's been nothing to make me

doubt it. There's only been more reinforcement. So stick around,

you'll see. You'll know. For what my opinion's worth, you sure seem

aspie to me.

And you won't get slapped down or teased, whatever conclusion you've

come to. We all know what that's like...

> (This is so stupid to ask for permission to be an Aspie. It really

> is. It just points up how nerdy I am. I am just a self-effacing low

> self-esteem kind of person to be doing this. They are never going to

> let me into the Aspie Club. I will just get teased. I am just putting

> myself on the line and I am going to get slapped down again....)

> (Real thoughts I am putting down in case anyone here would benefit

> from my internal thoughts.)

[Guest guest]

Considering what you've told us of yourself, I would say you display many

autistic traits. I'd advise getting an official diagnosis - both for legal

reasons (if that is ever necessary) and because while I have no problem with

self-diagnosis there is often a certain stigma or level of doubt that gets

attached to it (which can cause real problems in a variety of ways, much as

I dislike making any kind of decision as a reaction to the unfounded

negative perceptions of us) - but I believe that you are " an Aspie " . Having

said that, I would like to make a few points.

The autistic neurology is not a game to be played or a role to be adopted.

It is a real, existing neurology and is not a social construct. You are or

you are not (although there are many places on the spectrum where you might

be) and nothing we can say (or that a supposed expert can say) can change

that in either direction. You can seek our advice and you can call upon our

opinions or knowledge in order to give you the tools you need to make the

determination, but we do not hold the " keys " to 'being Asperger' and it is

not something one can apply for. You will need to make a decision based upon

your own sense of logic and reason. After all, who knows you better than you

do?

Don't ask for permission to be who you are and don't feel the need to gain

the approval of others unless you require it for real, rational reasons

(professional, financial, personal, moral, relationship, ideological

benefits, etc.)- not just to fit in. (Having said that, don't not fit in

just for the sake of not fitting in - and do remember that some rules are

neither autistic nor neurotypical but exist for rational causes that should

remain untouched by issues of neurology). Have a sense of confidence. Being

an 'aspie' does not make you any less than being a neurotypical. We are not

inferior to them. The big secret most NTs like to keep from everyone

(including each other) is that they're as clueless as anyone else - they

just have a social system that helps them mask their fear of a cold,

impersonal world from those around them and, sometimes, from themselves.

Best of luck,

Ari

>

> When I look at this, in one way it seems humourous, like I am making

> fun of myself. But actually I am really serious about this.

>

> It could be a thing of having been the last picked to be on a team,

> the last picked to be a friend, etc. But I always feel Like I need to

> ask permission... someone who is rather astute once remarked that she

> saw me " asking permission " to live my life a lot.

>

> Anyway, can I please be an Aspie? In order for me to join I think I

> need maybe a total of 3 people on the list to say yes. Bonnie already

> said: " You are a 'we' " so that's one. Now I need 2 others. Some day I

> will go find a psychologist or someone to say " I dub thee Aspie " (I

> get a really good visual on that one!) but right now I am just here

> in my little hole typing away and can't get time to go to a psych.

> We Made Changes

>

> Your Yahoo! Groups email is all new.

>

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[Guest guest]

Ari, That is a very thoughtful way of putting it. I think even if I

didn't have " permission " there is no getting around that I space out,

trip over stuff, think in pictures, get " sensory overload " in many

situations, can't remember a name (usually) or face (sometimes) and

all those other traits. Even if I had never heard of autism, I would

still have those traits and the comments from people around me and

the stuff said on my report cards. Even if there was no autism

spectrum at all, I would still do those things for whatever reason,

and have never had any success in NOT doing them.

You wrote: > The autistic neurology is not a game to be played or a

role to be adopted.

> It is a real, existing neurology and is not a social construct.

I think that must be true because in the past I have TRIED to be

more " normal " and just could not pull it off. If it is autism or not

it is still a core part of who/what I am. If it was a role there are

(or were in the past) plenty of times that I wish I could have picked

a different role to play.

Plus, thank you for reminding me I really do not need to nor should I

ask for permission to *be* something. There are reasons I might need

permission to *do* something, but not to be. So... lots of things to

think about, which I will now go off and do. Thanks, Ari.

Rhonda

[Guest guest]

Ari wrote:

>The autistic neurology is not a game to be played or a role to be adopted.

>It is a real, existing neurology and is not a social construct.

Of course, that's not a universally agreed point. I was in a

correspondence recently with a person who used to consider xemself an

autie but no longer does. Xe now believes it's all a construct by

psychiatrists (with the help of some neurologists, I guess) who want

to impose diagnoses on everyone rather than accepting the reality

that humans come in a wide variety of [neurologic] " flavors. " Only if

someone is severely/seriously handicapped by a specific disability is

it necessary (in this view) to ensure special treatment (for the

disability; e.g., accommodation or remediation). The rest of us --

those able to bumble along and pass as merely weird or eccentric or

stupid or clueless or non-compliant or all of the above -- should see

ourselves as part of the great variety of human normality. And, by

implication, stop trying to " make ourselves special " by seeking or

claiming a diagnosis. After all, lots of other normal (non-autistic)

people are sad, confused, lonely, un- or under-employed, etc., too.

I tried to point out that self-understanding can be a boon, whether

or not one (carefully) borrows terms from sectors of society (e.g.,

psychiatrists) that misuse them. But since I am seen by this person

as having chosen to delude myself (and xe sees xemself as having

emerged from the same self-delusion), nothing I say has any effect.

As Elaine May used to say when playing a (pre-break-up) phone company

operator dealing with an irate customer: " Bell Telephone cannot argue

with a closed mind. "

Jane

[Guest guest]

Agreed. I've seen that attitude countless times with both NTs and autistics.

Unfortunately, many parts of the medical community believe that to be the

case too. They think that only " severe impairment " , or something similar

stated by the DSM-IV, should justify an autistic spectrum diagnosis. What I

find particularly amusing about this is, almost all of them do not believe

that any person who acquires NT social skills (a practice I equate with

learning a rather difficult language - possible to learn to even a very high

degree of proficiency but hardly a reason to be forced to abandon forever

ones native tongue) or who lessens that " impairment " is no longer autistic.

So, beyond accusing people of " faking it " or of being misdiagnosed, they

have no recourse to explain those who find ways of learning how to function

successfuly in the social environment. It's a foolish concept. Neurology

does not change with behavior - even though behavior is often indicative of

neurology.

-Ari

>

> Ari wrote:

> >The autistic neurology is not a game to be played or a role to be

> adopted.

> >It is a real, existing neurology and is not a social construct.

>

> Of course, that's not a universally agreed point. I was in a

> correspondence recently with a person who used to consider xemself an

> autie but no longer does. Xe now believes it's all a construct by

> psychiatrists (with the help of some neurologists, I guess) who want

> to impose diagnoses on everyone rather than accepting the reality

> that humans come in a wide variety of [neurologic] " flavors. " Only if

> someone is severely/seriously handicapped by a specific disability is

> it necessary (in this view) to ensure special treatment (for the

> disability; e.g., accommodation or remediation). The rest of us --

> those able to bumble along and pass as merely weird or eccentric or

> stupid or clueless or non-compliant or all of the above -- should see

> ourselves as part of the great variety of human normality. And, by

> implication, stop trying to " make ourselves special " by seeking or

> claiming a diagnosis. After all, lots of other normal (non-autistic)

> people are sad, confused, lonely, un- or under-employed, etc., too.

>

> I tried to point out that self-understanding can be a boon, whether

> or not one (carefully) borrows terms from sectors of society (e.g.,

> psychiatrists) that misuse them. But since I am seen by this person

> as having chosen to delude myself (and xe sees xemself as having

> emerged from the same self-delusion), nothing I say has any effect.

>

> As Elaine May used to say when playing a (pre-break-up) phone company

> operator dealing with an irate customer: " Bell Telephone cannot argue

> with a closed mind. "

>

> Jane

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well said Ari, there aren't cliques, I should well hope..

When I myself suspected autism, my own ego was so inflated (still is)

I don't lack in self esteem)

I never sought 'approval' I just dove in. I already knew. No special

games, rules, clubs, you sense it (that you are on the spectrum)

or you don't;- within your self.

Me, being so much a loner always on the fringe of everyone and everything

I can never imagine my self at the pre-diagnosis stage imagining some

of these groups like treehouse , ANI or aut-advo as being axclusive

clubs. Whether anyone liked it or not, I just knew I belonged

(pre-diagnosistage)

and I wanted all I could glean from such places and dove in. But that's me.

k

[Guest guest]

Re:

> ... having been the last picked to be on a team,

> the last picked to be a friend, etc....

You actually got picked? You actually got picked, even last?! How did it feel?

When we had to play team sports in school, because no team would pick

me (even last) the gym-teachers/coaches eventually wouuld not force

any team to pick me: the students & teachers/coaches figured that a

team should better play " one kid short " (e.g., a baseball-team waith

only 8 instead of 9) than have its full membership if that had to mean

including (GASP! HORRORS!) me.

They explained this to me by saying that I mustn't play until I

had developed and demonstrated " team spirit " - something which I don't

see how to develop and demonstrate without actually playing on a team.

However, exclusion from teams in gym did not free me from the

requirement to play on a team in gym in order to get full credit for

gym: in at least one school I attended, about 20% of the gym grade

depended on participation in team sports played as a part of gym. And

you couldn't get into the next grade (in ANY subject) without passing

ALL subjects in your present grade, including gym ... I always came

within a grade-point or two of failing gym.

Yours for better letters, Kate Gladstone -

handwritingrepair@... - telephone 518/482-6763

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

Order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link gets me 5% - 15% commission)

And sign the " Politician Legibility Act " Petition:

http://www.iPetitions.com/petition/PoliticianLegibility

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

After learning of AS at 40, I finally felt like I've finally completed

my mosaic masterpiece and everything now gels about my life (past &

present.) I mean, FINALLY stuff makes sense. Like why the education &

employment difficulties, why I'm a " late bloomer " in life, etc..

IMHO, there's no real " club " or that here that people have to join, etc.

It strikes me more as those brought together by feelings of mutuality,

common interests & experiences. All are welcome anyhoodle.

I know how lots must feel of these days but his song

used in " Captain EO " and on the " Bad " CD " Another Part Of Me " best suits

how I do feel as an AC with relating to NT society.

I'm sure you can download the song/lyrics & see where I'm coming from

here.

Wanda

http://community.webtv.net/tikigalharkins/LETSTALKASPERGERS

[Guest guest]

It was 24 Jun 2006, when rhndroberts commented:

> Anyway, can I please be an Aspie? In order for me to join I think I

> need maybe a total of 3 people on the list to say yes. Bonnie already said:

> " You are a 'we' " so that's one. Now I need 2 others. Some day I will go

> find a psychologist or someone to say " I dub thee Aspie " (I get a really

> good visual on that one!) but right now I am just here in my little hole

> typing away and can't get time to go to a psych.

Well, you have my " permission, " such as it is, since I'm self-diagnosed,

too. Do I need to know the Secret Aspie Handshake for this? <grin>

I figure it's probably okay to stay at self-diagnosed because (a) there's

no Magic Pill to take, anyway, ( I'm 47 years old, they didn't have AS

when I was a kid (can you say " mildly retarded? " ), and © I spent so many

years learning not to act like an Aspie that I probably couldn't get

diagnosed, anyway.

But if you figure you need it, for what it's worth, it's all yours.

Kind of reminds me of one of the last scenes in " The Wizard of Oz, " where

the Wizard is explaining to the Scarecrow that he already has more love

than people who do have hearts, and so on....

--

B. , another satisfied user of

Pegasus Mail Client and Mercury MTA <http://www.pmail.com>

<ftp://ftp.usm.maine.edu/pegasus/winpmail/w32-431.exe>

[Guest guest]

Hi & all,

Got a kick outta that " secret handshake " remark. (LOL!!) ;D Kinda

makes me think of a few other " organizations " that use " secret

handshakes " like Freemasons supposedly do.

As to " The Wizard of Oz " , that one ranks up there as one of my favorite

movies beside " An Affair To Remember " & other " chick flicks " like " Dirty

Dancing " , etc. I even enjoyed " The Wiz " with Ross and

(who BTW played the Scarecrow.) I may be 46 & Aspie, but I

still yearn to be that man's " leading lady 'til death do us part "

who/whereever he is.

As I said earlier, here there's no key, etc. for membership. This is a

total " come as you are " / " UBU " situation here--Thank God!

Wanda

http://community.webtv.net/tikigalharkins/LETSTALKASPERGERS

[Guest guest]

I never got picked until last. It's a bit strange, because in my

family, we were very competitive about sports and I actually did very

well playing against my brothers and cousins. I was even voted MVP of

the family on a few occasions. I wonder if this is partly because I

grew up with them and could read their body language and they could

read mine. Whereas on a school team I had no clue. Plus the teams

were bigger and there were people who actually were better than me,

once I was a little fish in a bigger pond. And, I could screech at my

brothers and cousins whereas on a team we had to play by the rules,

whatever those were. I was not good at remembering the rules, keeping

score, paying attention, etc. on a team but I had a mind like a vise

and an eagle eye (or so I tell myself) when competing against my

brothers for the attention of my jock-like dad. I also did better

playing pick-up games with local boys than I did on organized teams

with other girls. I think I am either all or nothing when it comes to

being able to do something physical. In some situations I am very

coordinated, and in others (such as crossing the kitchen without

banging into something, as I always say) I am not.

-- Rhonda

>

> Re:

>

> > ... having been the last picked to be on a team,

> > the last picked to be a friend, etc....

>

> You actually got picked? You actually got picked, even last?! How

did it feel?

>

> When we had to play team sports in school, because no team would

pick

> me (even last) the gym-teachers/coaches eventually wouuld not force

> any team to pick me: the students & teachers/coaches figured that a

> team should better play " one kid short " (e.g., a baseball-team waith

> only 8 instead of 9) than have its full membership if that had to

mean

> including (GASP! HORRORS!) me.

> They explained this to me by saying that I mustn't play until I

> had developed and demonstrated " team spirit " - something which I

don't

> see how to develop and demonstrate without actually playing on a

team.

> However, exclusion from teams in gym did not free me from the

> requirement to play on a team in gym in order to get full credit for

> gym: in at least one school I attended, about 20% of the gym grade

> depended on participation in team sports played as a part of gym.

And

> you couldn't get into the next grade (in ANY subject) without

passing

> ALL subjects in your present grade, including gym ... I always came

> within a grade-point or two of failing gym.

>

>

> Yours for better letters, Kate Gladstone -

> handwritingrepair@... - telephone 518/482-6763

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> http://learn.to/handwrite,

http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> Order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link gets me 5% - 15% commission)

> And sign the " Politician Legibility Act " Petition:

> http://www.iPetitions.com/petition/PoliticianLegibility

>