Re: Weird stuff

December 14, 2001

Do you still love him, Salli?

Weird stuff

Lou called me last night and he wanted to come over and talk. He did not

sound particularly friendly. He said he wanted to call off the divorce.

Af first I said he could come and then I got nervous about it. So I called

him and we talked. He has some serious financial problems. He also says he

misses the kids and wondered when he could move back in.

Uh? Move back in?

I do not like divorce but I rather think after a separation for such a serious

matter that he will not just waltz back into the house but we will need to

undergo months of counselling and even then, frankly, I may not be willing to

have him move back in. He admitted that he did not miss me and it was the

children he was primarily concerned with. At least he is honest, I guess.

He told me that his feelings were seriously hurt from his arrest and

loneliness over the past few years and that he felt I had taken an adversarial

approach to the whole separation. He also asked if I would be comfortable doing

counselling because as he said, " This divorce was your idea. " Huh? I filed for

a legal separation when he started to write threatening letters to my parents

regarding his need for equity from the house.

So from that conversation, I did not feel especially thrilled by the news that

he no longer wanted a divorce. Enrique had a panic attack. He does not want

his father back in the house. Sophie and were cautious too; they felt

that if he could be nice, it might be nice to have him back, but they seemed

doubtful.

He asked if he could come over and do our Advent wreath with us. I have said

it might be okay, but Enrique totally panicked over it.

Hmm, hmm, hmm.

Salli

December 14, 2001

Bottom line is, Salli... new or old version of Lou.... he does not miss you.

You are fine without him. I don't know how much of him you miss, but if he does

not miss you, then there is no reason for him to be there. If he is so

concerned about the kids, file for joint custody. Show up for Thanksgiving.

Act like he cares about them. Don't make his own son feel like his father

didn't care, as has felt.... as I'm sure Enrique has felt... and as

Putter knows.

His missing them is nice and commendable, if it is indeed the truth, but it is

nothing to base a marriage on, especially this far into the damage.

If this is something you must try again, then nothing will stop you. I won't

even try, as I believe these things need to be worked out of your system, no

matter the cost. But 2 out of the 5 kids can't stand him, and most importantly

- - - he does not miss you. I would not forego this idea based solely on the

fact that he was abusive to you. No, not at all. I would base it solely on the

fact that he doesn't miss you, AND he abused you.... and your children. AND....

Lou has some other deranged reasoning for this sudden change of behavior.

This is not territory for me to comment on, as this man could either become your

ex or your husband again, so I will refrain from saying more. But I am

confident that you will know what the best decision is for YOU and for YOUR

family, as I believe in your discretion. I don't profess to know Lou, and it is

true that most of the time, we only hear about the rotten Lou. I'm sure he's

got a quality or two that is worthwhile. In any case, whatever decision you

make is good by me, and I would support you regardless, even if you took the

butthead back. <Sorry, I just had to put that in.... sorry, sorry....>

Grace

December 14, 2001

Louser doesn't like being poor. This isn't working out the way he

had planned. He is unpredictable and he has the propensity for

violence. I don't like divorce, but it serves a purpose here. Even

if you elect not to divorce and remain separated I would be extremely

leary of letting Lou back into the house. With his record of

behavior and irresponsible parenting I wouldn't want him to have more

contact with the children anyway. He scares me.

Be careful Salli. Be very careful. Please proceed cautiously and

with advice from you lawyer. Lou is thinking of himself, not the

children or the welfare of the family. He made his choices, too bad

he doesn't like the consequences.

who is very concerned about Salli

December 14, 2001

> Do you still love him, Salli?

>

Grace:

I don't know who he is so I cannot answer that question. I married a

different person, you see.

Salli

December 14, 2001

Salli,

I dont know what to say, I guess you ultimately will make a decision.

This makes me nervous too. I mean, it seems that " financial problems "

seemed to be raised intially. I think youre right about his needing

some major counseling before he moves in (if that happens), because

domestic violence doesnt disappear into the thin air, you cant be

certain it wont occur again. It doesnt sound like a marital therapy

thing either (he seems to think). He seems like he needs to do a lot

of major work on himself beforehand. I do not know him, but, from

your descriptions, he sounds very unstable. I think giving some

consideration to the advent wreath is good, it gives him a chance to

be part of the kids that he's missing. I guess the down side is

Enrique's reaction. Im sorry youre caught up in such a difficult

situation.

Thea

> Lou called me last night and he wanted to come over and talk. He

did not sound particularly friendly. He said he wanted to call off

the divorce.

>

> Af first I said he could come and then I got nervous about it. So

I called him and we talked. He has some serious financial problems.

He also says he misses the kids and wondered when he could move back

in.

>

> Uh? Move back in?

>

> I do not like divorce but I rather think after a separation for

such a serious matter that he will not just waltz back into the house

but we will need to undergo months of counselling and even then,

frankly, I may not be willing to have him move back in. He admitted

that he did not miss me and it was the children he was primarily

concerned with. At least he is honest, I guess.

>

> He told me that his feelings were seriously hurt from his arrest

and loneliness over the past few years and that he felt I had taken

an adversarial approach to the whole separation. He also asked if I

would be comfortable doing counselling because as he said, " This

divorce was your idea. " Huh? I filed for a legal separation when he

started to write threatening letters to my parents regarding his need

for equity from the house.

>

> So from that conversation, I did not feel especially thrilled by

the news that he no longer wanted a divorce. Enrique had a panic

attack. He does not want his father back in the house. Sophie and

were cautious too; they felt that if he could be nice, it

might be nice to have him back, but they seemed doubtful.

>

> He asked if he could come over and do our Advent wreath with us. I

have said it might be okay, but Enrique totally panicked over it.

>

> Hmm, hmm, hmm.

>

> Salli

>

December 14, 2001

Grace:

It is an interesting position to be in. I am indeed fine without him and I

do not miss him though I could use some help around here. Unfortunately I

do not recall him being particularly helpful.

I do feel a moral obligation to do counselling with him if he wants.

Whether or not we ever live together again, it seems that it would be a good

idea since we have all these children.

I have talked to my lawyer and she agrees that we will file for

reconciliation which means nothing except, as Enrique said, that you pause

the divorce action for a few months while exploring your options. That

would mean that I would still have insurance which is definitely a good

thing.

It is quite clear to me that Lou does not love me and did not love me for

most of our marriage. I cannot think of anything that I would gain from his

return; my finances would actually be worse because my parents would reduce

or end their support of me.

Salli

December 14, 2001

I think giving some

> consideration to the advent wreath is good, it gives him a chance to

> be part of the kids that he's missing. I guess the down side is

> Enrique's reaction. Im sorry youre caught up in such a difficult

> situation.

That was my thinking. Our beautiful Advent wreath services were written by

Lou as were all our family rituals. But Enrique was in a state of total

panic all evening and Lou didn't even come over.

Salli

December 14, 2001

> It is quite clear to me that Lou does not love me and did not love me for

> most of our marriage.

I think that this would be clincher for me. But I don't have 5 kids with

someone, either....

Good luck, Salli, whatever you choose to do!

Jacquie

December 14, 2001

Wow, Salli, that's a tough situation. I don't know what to say. Just the

stuff that has been posted since I have been on the list makes me want to

scream " Don't take him back...!!!! " But only if you are truly in the

situation can you make that decision. Just be darn careful that he's not

doing this just for the money situation that he put himself in. Take care

of yourself. Tamara

>

>Reply-To: parenting_autism

>To: <parenting_autism >

>Subject: Weird stuff

>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:12:51 -0500

>

>Lou called me last night and he wanted to come over and talk. He did not

>sound particularly friendly. He said he wanted to call off the divorce.

>

>Af first I said he could come and then I got nervous about it. So I called

>him and we talked. He has some serious financial problems. He also says

>he misses the kids and wondered when he could move back in.

>

>Uh? Move back in?

>

>I do not like divorce but I rather think after a separation for such a

>serious matter that he will not just waltz back into the house but we will

>need to undergo months of counselling and even then, frankly, I may not be

>willing to have him move back in. He admitted that he did not miss me and

>it was the children he was primarily concerned with. At least he is

>honest, I guess.

>

>He told me that his feelings were seriously hurt from his arrest and

>loneliness over the past few years and that he felt I had taken an

>adversarial approach to the whole separation. He also asked if I would be

>comfortable doing counselling because as he said, " This divorce was your

>idea. " Huh? I filed for a legal separation when he started to write

>threatening letters to my parents regarding his need for equity from the

>house.

>

>So from that conversation, I did not feel especially thrilled by the news

>that he no longer wanted a divorce. Enrique had a panic attack. He does

>not want his father back in the house. Sophie and were cautious

>too; they felt that if he could be nice, it might be nice to have him back,

>but they seemed doubtful.

>

>He asked if he could come over and do our Advent wreath with us. I have

>said it might be okay, but Enrique totally panicked over it.

>

>Hmm, hmm, hmm.

>

>Salli

>

December 14, 2001

Just my 2 cents worth. From my experience. I have been divorced for almost 4

years. (March) He was very abusive..he made me miscarry a baby .. and then I

almost lost Trevor. He wanted back..he said he missed the kids...this was

after months of being away from them. I let him come back..it was hell. Not

saying it would be hell for you...I don't know the whole story. But it was even

rougher on my kids because they sensed the tension even when we were pretending

to get along. That is something you need to think about...it is your

decision...and be careful is all I ask...I will back you up in whatever decision

you decide. Just please be careful! Much hugs to you!

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December 14, 2001

> Bottom line is, Salli... new or old version of Lou.... he does not

miss you.

> You are fine without him. I don't know how much of him you miss,

but if he does not miss you, then there is no reason for him to be

there. If he is so concerned about the kids, file for joint

custody. Show up for Thanksgiving. Act like he cares about them.

Don't make his own son feel like his father didn't care, as

has felt.... as I'm sure Enrique has felt... and as Putter knows.

>

> His missing them is nice and commendable, if it is indeed the

truth, but it is nothing to base a marriage on, especially this far

into the damage.

> If this is something you must try again, then nothing will stop

you. I won't even try, as I believe these things need to be worked

out of your system, no matter the cost. But 2 out of the 5 kids

can't stand him, and most importantly - - - he does not miss you. I

would not forego this idea based solely on the fact that he was

abusive to you. No, not at all. I would base it solely on the fact

that he doesn't miss you, AND he abused you.... and your children.

AND.... Lou has some other deranged reasoning for this sudden change

of behavior.

>

> This is not territory for me to comment on, as this man could

either become your ex or your husband again, so I will refrain from

saying more. But I am confident that you will know what the best

decision is for YOU and for YOUR family, as I believe in your

discretion. I don't profess to know Lou, and it is true that most of

the time, we only hear about the rotten Lou. I'm sure he's got a

quality or two that is worthwhile. In any case, whatever decision

you make is good by me, and I would support you regardless, even if

you took the butthead back. <Sorry, I just had to put that in....

sorry, sorry....>

>

> Grace

Aaaah Grace. You said it so much better than I.

December 14, 2001

That

> would mean that I would still have insurance which is definitely a

good

> thing.

Certainly doesn't hurt!

>

> It is quite clear to me that Lou does not love me and did not love

me for

> most of our marriage.

That would be the clincher for me. Why live in a marriage with

someone that does not love you? That is what marriage is about.

I cannot think of anything that I would gain from his

> return; my finances would actually be worse because my parents

would reduce

> or end their support of me.

From what you have said I can not think of what you would gain from

his return either. Go slowly and cautiously Salli.

December 14, 2001

> Lou called me last night and he wanted to come over and talk. He

did not sound particularly friendly. He said he wanted to call off

the divorce.<<<<

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

>

> Af first I said he could come and then I got nervous about it. So

I called him and we talked. He has some serious financial problems.

He also says he misses the kids and wondered when he could move back

in.<<<<<

Well, duh......Lou can not take care of himself, it seems. I'm

sorry, I shouldn't make any judgements because I don't know Lou, but

I find it hard to believe he misses the kids in the way in which YOU

would miss your kids.

>

> Uh? Move back in?<<<

NO NO NO NO NO

>

> I do not like divorce but I rather think after a separation for

such a serious matter that he will not just waltz back into the house

but we will need to undergo months of counselling and even then,

frankly, I may not be willing to have him move back in. He admitted

that he did not miss me and it was the children he was primarily

concerned with. At least he is honest, I guess.

>>>>>

Yeah, it's that pesky Aspergers. " Gee, Salli, I dont' miss you...can

we give it a go? " What is he thinking? He's thinking he can't take

care of himself!

> He told me that his feelings were seriously hurt from his arrest

and loneliness over the past few years and that he felt I had taken

an adversarial approach to the whole separation. He also asked if I

would be comfortable doing counselling because as he said, " This

divorce was your idea. " Huh? I filed for a legal separation when he

started to write threatening letters to my parents regarding his need

for equity from the house.

>>>>

....and there it is. Is it remotely possible that Lou has figured out

that HE will gain nothing from your house? That the money was a gift

from your parents?

> So from that conversation, I did not feel especially thrilled by

the news that he no longer wanted a divorce.<<<

Good, I'm glad!

>>Enrique had a panic attack. He does not want his father back in

the house.<<<<

Smart boy, Salli....

>>Sophie and were cautious too; they felt that if he could

be nice, it might be nice to have him back, but they seemed doubtful.

>>>

Smart kids, Salli...

> He asked if he could come over and do our Advent wreath with us. I

have said it might be okay, but Enrique totally panicked over it.

>>>>

Please tell us that you will not consider this. I'm sorry, but you

and your kids could not handle Lou issues. Can you imagine???

Enrique is so anxiety ridden, what happens when Lou starts up again???

Salli, please. I know Lou is the kids father, but.....if he REALLY

misses his children, he needs to show it, equally.

His financial problems ARE NOT YOUR FAULT!!!!

Penny - who's really pissed at Lou for even making you think about

this.

December 14, 2001

> Do you still love him, Salli?

>

Well, Grace -

For all the things that all of us think of Lou, and all the crap he's

put Salli thru, and how much WE love Salli, I think that you just

asked the best question of all.

Penny :-)

December 14, 2001

>

> > He asked if he could come over and do our Advent wreath with us. I

> have said it might be okay, but Enrique totally panicked over it.

Well, I do think I might let him do the Advent wreath with us. I also have

serious doubts that it is even possible for Lou and I to find any common

ground, but I will talk to him. I cannot imagine where we would even put

him at this point as the house seems very full and I had been looking

forward to having him clear his junk out of here so we would have more room.

Salli

December 14, 2001

>

> That would be the clincher for me. Why live in a marriage with

> someone that does not love you? That is what marriage is about.

Actually considering how awful my marriage was I would be surprisingly happy

to live in a marriage with good manners alone. You don't need to love each

other to be polite, in fact, it may be easier to be polite to someone you

are not in love with.

Salli

December 14, 2001

>

> Well, Grace -

>

> For all the things that all of us think of Lou, and all the crap he's >

put Salli thru, and how much WE love Salli, I think that you just

> asked the best question of all.

If I answer this absolutely honestly, then the answer is, no, I haven't

loved him for several years. He was horrible to live with and I was not

happy living with him. I could have coped if he had got proper meds and

behaved decently. But as it was, the separation was a huge blessed relief.

Salli

December 14, 2001

Salli,

It sounds like he is not willing take responsibility

for what has happened. He has laid the blame at your

feet and he seems to be thinking only about himself.

You don't want him home, the kids don't want him home,

only he wants him home.

Anyway, that's my totally uninformed point of view. I

hope everything works out you.

Tuna ... sending good vibes your way

=======================

From: bunnytiner

He said he wanted to call off the divorce.

He also says he misses the kids and wondered when he

could move back in.

I may not be willing to have him move back in. He

admitted that he did not miss me and it was the

children he was primarily concerned with.

He told me that his feelings were seriously hurt from

his arrest and loneliness over the past few years and

that he felt I had taken an adversarial approach to

the whole separation.

This divorce was your idea.

Enrique had a panic attack. He does not want his

father back in the house. Sophie and were

cautious too; they felt that if he could be nice, it

might be nice to have him back, but they seemed

doubtful.

Salli

=====

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December 14, 2001

Salli that is a tough call. If the guy tells you out right that he does not love

you then I really think he is a jerk. He can learn to get buy with what he has.

If he can't then he should have thought about what he was doing before this all

went down.

I know it is hard around this time of year for everyone but you have to think

what is best for you and the kids. You are set in you way know and the kids are

use to the way things have been going. It could cause a lot of convursion if he

comes back.

I wish you all the luck in making your desecision.

Lori