Re: to tell or not to tell

[Guest guest]

Jane wrote:

<<And some people will think that since you

are disabled (since everyone autistic, they believe, is disabled),

you should not be intruding yourself into places where normal people

are leading their real (non-disabled) lives....>>>

This is my current worry, as I've been thinking about applying for a

job that just opened up. The job is organist and choir director. I

already know I have trouble directing choirs! I am better than someone

who doesn't know what they are doing, though. I have training and

experience, but never feel I am getting it right, due to

repeated " mistakes " I make, which are some of the " symptoms " that led

me to start researching autism.

Since I just learned about the possibility of AS/HFA or whatever two

days ago, I've been losing a bit of confidence! I was already nervous

because I know I have trouble in certain areas, trouble that has not

resolved itself through experience (in other words I don't seem to get

any better at certain things, so far...)

" How dare I apply for this job, " I say to myself, " when I KNOW I have

trouble with eye contact (either too little or sometimes too much,

where I will suddenly lock eyes with a member of the choir and totally

miss a beat!), trouble interpreting body signals (not a prob at the

organ but definitely comes in handy directing a group of live

people!), trouble turning pages (clumsy as can be, even though I've

been doing it for years... I can play the notes but I can't turn the

page...), and general difficulties in social interaction with choir

members, staff, clergy, etc. Also it is one of those churches where

you are just supposed to known when to come in on the organ or with

the choir, whereas in some other churches someone will say " WE WILL

NOW SING HYMN 463! " which gives me a chance to wake up, get my hands

over the keys, and hit the note pretty soon.

Not to mention planning, especially if we have an extra thing or a

time change, or need to do things in a different order.

BUT, I LIKE MUSIC, and there's a job open in my neighborhood, and why

NOT? I guess if I do land the job I will have my work cut out for me.

It would be so much easier to stay here in my little office doing my

other job, which is a well-defined, isolated task at which I really

EXCEL. I guess because I love music so much, and I think I SHOULD do

something with my music degree. It never seems enough to just go sing

in a choir somehwere, I want to run the show, even though if given the

chance I usually screw it up.

I usually am a substitute director and organist so don't have to have

a long-term relationship with one set of people. Can I just say I am

shaking in my shoes at the thought?

One thing is whether I have a " real " diagnoses or not, is I suppose I

can try to figure out ways to compensate, just like I always have. But

for the past 48 hours I really have added " Who am I to apply for the

job?! " to my list of negative things I think.

Rhonda

[Guest guest]

that's a good idea. i wonder what i would do if they said i was NOT on

the spectrum? i wonder what else it could be?! just basic geeky nerdy

social misfitness? supposed to be a joke. i guess being a weirdo

would not be so bad if it was cool to be one and people would make

some accomadations. people just generally have knee-jerk reactions,

though, to anything out of their milieu/experience. i am definitely

out of most people's experience....

one thing i do know, is that i got a 36 on that AQ test, then I redid

it and gave very " conservative " answers, just in case I was making a

big deal out of nothing. i came all the way down to 31.

i will just have to get up the nerve to go get tested i guess.

rhonda

[Guest guest]

If you can't do the work, then that is a problem and one can not expect to

manage at a job that one doesn't have the skills for. However, perhaps you

could manage there, given the right level of preparation and effort. Do you

feel the job is within your capabilities (even if it would be much harder

for you than for others), if you got the right sort of preparation

beforehand and tried very hard? If you do, then apply and do whatever needs

to be done to do the job right. I believe people should be judged - at least

in professional terms - primarily on the basis of what they can do. If you

can do it, then you should have just as much of a chance at the job as

anyone else.

-Ari

>

> Jane wrote:

>

> <<And some people will think that since you

> are disabled (since everyone autistic, they believe, is disabled),

> you should not be intruding yourself into places where normal people

> are leading their real (non-disabled) lives....>>>

>

> This is my current worry, as I've been thinking about applying for a

> job that just opened up. The job is organist and choir director. I

> already know I have trouble directing choirs! I am better than someone

> who doesn't know what they are doing, though. I have training and

> experience, but never feel I am getting it right, due to

> repeated " mistakes " I make, which are some of the " symptoms " that led

> me to start researching autism.

>

> Since I just learned about the possibility of AS/HFA or whatever two

> days ago, I've been losing a bit of confidence! I was already nervous

> because I know I have trouble in certain areas, trouble that has not

> resolved itself through experience (in other words I don't seem to get

> any better at certain things, so far...)

>

> " How dare I apply for this job, " I say to myself, " when I KNOW I have

> trouble with eye contact (either too little or sometimes too much,

> where I will suddenly lock eyes with a member of the choir and totally

> miss a beat!), trouble interpreting body signals (not a prob at the

> organ but definitely comes in handy directing a group of live

> people!), trouble turning pages (clumsy as can be, even though I've

> been doing it for years... I can play the notes but I can't turn the

> page...), and general difficulties in social interaction with choir

> members, staff, clergy, etc. Also it is one of those churches where

> you are just supposed to known when to come in on the organ or with

> the choir, whereas in some other churches someone will say " WE WILL

> NOW SING HYMN 463! " which gives me a chance to wake up, get my hands

> over the keys, and hit the note pretty soon.

>

> Not to mention planning, especially if we have an extra thing or a

> time change, or need to do things in a different order.

>

> BUT, I LIKE MUSIC, and there's a job open in my neighborhood, and why

> NOT? I guess if I do land the job I will have my work cut out for me.

>

> It would be so much easier to stay here in my little office doing my

> other job, which is a well-defined, isolated task at which I really

> EXCEL. I guess because I love music so much, and I think I SHOULD do

> something with my music degree. It never seems enough to just go sing

> in a choir somehwere, I want to run the show, even though if given the

> chance I usually screw it up.

>

> I usually am a substitute director and organist so don't have to have

> a long-term relationship with one set of people. Can I just say I am

> shaking in my shoes at the thought?

>

> One thing is whether I have a " real " diagnoses or not, is I suppose I

> can try to figure out ways to compensate, just like I always have. But

> for the past 48 hours I really have added " Who am I to apply for the

> job?! " to my list of negative things I think.

>

> Rhonda

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have the skills but it seems to me that I make mistakes more than I

should. And it makes me anxious... I have a bachelor's degree in

performance, summa cum laude. i have a lot of coursework in the

directing part of it, but I get totally nervous about screwing it up.

I think that with my level of training I should somehow be a bit

better at it than I am. I do have to really work at it to pull it

off, when it comes to things like planning, organization of other

people, and so forth. Well, I have a pretty cool resume put together,

so it probably won't kill me to turn it in to them

Rhonda

>

> If you can't do the work, then that is a problem and one can not

expect to

> manage at a job that one doesn't have the skills for. However,

perhaps you

> could manage there, given the right level of preparation and

effort. Do you

> feel the job is within your capabilities (even if it would be much

harder

> for you than for others), if you got the right sort of preparation

> beforehand and tried very hard? If you do, then apply and do

whatever needs

> to be done to do the job right. I believe people should be judged -

at least

> in professional terms - primarily on the basis of what they can do.

If you

> can do it, then you should have just as much of a chance at the job

as

> anyone else.

>

> -Ari

[Guest guest]

I have the skills but it seems to me that I make mistakes more than I

should. And it makes me anxious... I have a bachelor's degree in

performance, summa cum laude. i have a lot of coursework in the

directing part of it, but I get totally nervous about screwing it up.

I think that with my level of training I should somehow be a bit

better at it than I am. I do have to really work at it to pull it

off, when it comes to things like planning, organization of other

people, and so forth. Well, I have a pretty cool resume put together,

so it probably won't kill me to turn it in to them

Rhonda

>

> If you can't do the work, then that is a problem and one can not

expect to

> manage at a job that one doesn't have the skills for. However,

perhaps you

> could manage there, given the right level of preparation and

effort. Do you

> feel the job is within your capabilities (even if it would be much

harder

> for you than for others), if you got the right sort of preparation

> beforehand and tried very hard? If you do, then apply and do

whatever needs

> to be done to do the job right. I believe people should be judged -

at least

> in professional terms - primarily on the basis of what they can do.

If you

> can do it, then you should have just as much of a chance at the job

as

> anyone else.

>

> -Ari

[Guest guest]

Rhonda wrote:

>I have the skills but it seems to me that I make mistakes more than I

>should. And it makes me anxious... I

Don't you think it might help to know what kind of work-arounds you

need in order to compensate for whatever autistic traits you have? If

you had a diagnosis, you might even be able to find someone to work

with you (Voc Rehab) on ways to compensate for specific problems. Or

it might help just to stop thinking of your problems as personal

failings and start thinking of them as autism-related traits for

which you need to invent work-arounds.

On the other hand, if it sounds like too much work, then you'll have

to adjust yourself in other ways (e.g., decide it's okay to do your

current job even if you did get a degree in music).

Jane

[Guest guest]

thy will give some kind of a diganosis but 40-0 on the AQ is low thats means you

might not have any autism spectrum disorder

60-100 is where thy rilly start to look hard at witch one it is you need testing

to find out first thy look at IQ then thy go from there as where you are on the

spectrum 36-31 is low good luck i was in the top 40's so thats way thy put me in

pdd-nos.i hope you find a good diganosis.the testing cost about 2.000-5.000 so

check with your insurance to see if thy cover testing take care thomas

Re: to tell or not to tell

that's a good idea. i wonder what i would do if they said i was NOT on

the spectrum? i wonder what else it could be?! just basic geeky nerdy

social misfitness? supposed to be a joke. i guess being a weirdo

would not be so bad if it was cool to be one and people would make

some accomadations. people just generally have knee-jerk reactions,

though, to anything out of their milieu/experience. i am definitely

out of most people's experience.. ..

one thing i do know, is that i got a 36 on that AQ test, then I redid

it and gave very " conservative " answers, just in case I was making a

big deal out of nothing. i came all the way down to 31.

i will just have to get up the nerve to go get tested i guess.

rhonda

[Guest guest]

The AQ I looked at was linked to Wired magazine online. That one said

that if you got 26 or lower, you did not have AS, and that 80% of

people who had AS got 32 or higher. So when I got 36 (then 31, then

36 again when I re-did it) that put me in the range according to how

they were scoring it on that site. Does anyone have links to the test

other than WIRED?

I never have had my IQ done except with online tests. After taking

all the ones I was interested in my average was 128-130 depending on

the test. I have no idea how that corresponds to a diagnosis, but I

don't have $2000 to find out, at least not anytime soon. 128-130

makes sense to me. " Smart " enough to know I'm not the smartest person

in town but " too smart " for most of the people I meet, who don't want

to bother with going into depth about interests. I do have to

put " smart " in parens because it is NOT a definition of IQ!

Rhonda

>

> thy will give some kind of a diganosis but 40-0 on the AQ is low

thats means you might not have any autism spectrum disorder

> 60-100 is where thy rilly start to look hard at witch one it is you

need testing to find out first thy look at IQ then thy go from there

as where you are on the spectrum 36-31 is low good luck i was in the

top 40's so thats way thy put me in pdd-nos.i hope you find a good

diganosis.the testing cost about 2.000-5.000 so check with your

insurance to see if thy cover testing take care thomas

>

> Re: to tell or not to tell

>

>

> that's a good idea. i wonder what i would do if they said i was NOT

on

> the spectrum? i wonder what else it could be?! just basic geeky

nerdy

> social misfitness? supposed to be a joke. i guess being a weirdo

> would not be so bad if it was cool to be one and people would make

> some accomadations. people just generally have knee-jerk reactions,

> though, to anything out of their milieu/experience. i am definitely

> out of most people's experience.. ..

>

> one thing i do know, is that i got a 36 on that AQ test, then I

redid

> it and gave very " conservative " answers, just in case I was making

a

> big deal out of nothing. i came all the way down to 31.

>

> i will just have to get up the nerve to go get tested i guess.

>

> rhonda

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think you may be able to get it from a general psychologist or

psychiatrist as well for a lesser cost, but I'm not sure. Jane would

probably know better than I. As for IQ scores, they're somewhat arbitrary.

One thing that is characteristic of being an Asperger's autistic however, is

a much higher verbal IQ than performance IQ. Do you have that?

-Ari

>

> The AQ I looked at was linked to Wired magazine online. That one said

> that if you got 26 or lower, you did not have AS, and that 80% of

> people who had AS got 32 or higher. So when I got 36 (then 31, then

> 36 again when I re-did it) that put me in the range according to how

> they were scoring it on that site. Does anyone have links to the test

> other than WIRED?

>

> I never have had my IQ done except with online tests. After taking

> all the ones I was interested in my average was 128-130 depending on

> the test. I have no idea how that corresponds to a diagnosis, but I

> don't have $2000 to find out, at least not anytime soon. 128-130

> makes sense to me. " Smart " enough to know I'm not the smartest person

> in town but " too smart " for most of the people I meet, who don't want

> to bother with going into depth about interests. I do have to

> put " smart " in parens because it is NOT a definition of IQ!

>

> Rhonda

>

>

> >

> > thy will give some kind of a diganosis but 40-0 on the AQ is low

> thats means you might not have any autism spectrum disorder

> > 60-100 is where thy rilly start to look hard at witch one it is you

> need testing to find out first thy look at IQ then thy go from there

> as where you are on the spectrum 36-31 is low good luck i was in the

> top 40's so thats way thy put me in pdd-nos.i hope you find a good

> diganosis.the testing cost about 2.000-5.000 so check with your

> insurance to see if thy cover testing take care thomas

> >

> > Re: to tell or not to tell

> >

> >

> > that's a good idea. i wonder what i would do if they said i was NOT

> on

> > the spectrum? i wonder what else it could be?! just basic geeky

> nerdy

> > social misfitness? supposed to be a joke. i guess being a weirdo

> > would not be so bad if it was cool to be one and people would make

> > some accomadations. people just generally have knee-jerk reactions,

> > though, to anything out of their milieu/experience. i am definitely

> > out of most people's experience.. ..

> >

> > one thing i do know, is that i got a 36 on that AQ test, then I

> redid

> > it and gave very " conservative " answers, just in case I was making

> a

> > big deal out of nothing. i came all the way down to 31.

> >

> > i will just have to get up the nerve to go get tested i guess.

> >

> > rhonda

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Jane, thank you for being so thoughtful. I've also been reading your

site... which I should not do as I'm on deadline here!

I want to both embrace who I am and also, since now I think I am

closer to the root of some of my social and sensory difficulties,

begin to address HOW to do some of the things I tend to avoid or to

do poorly.

The idea of VocRehab! I never would have thought of that! That could

be a huge help.

I'm making a folder for " helpful things. " Today I had occasion to

view a site for a friend who died... and found a link to suggested

condolence things to say, so I put that in my folder. I never have a

clue as to what to say at times like that. I also learned last year

that if one sends a wedding invitation, I am supposed to respond to

it even if I am NOT going to go! And if I TELL the person I am not

going, I am supposed to send the little card back anyway. Seems kind

of silly but I had received a lot of invitations that year and scred

up the etiquette pretty badly.... are NT people just BORN knowing

that stuff?

I'm breaking down my music job decision into manageable sections.

Since I like to tear apart info into little pieces anyway, this makes

me feel a bit more on top of it. I MADE myself make 2 phone calls to

people involved in the church choir. I was careful not to bowl them

over with a 15-minute speech or irrelevant stuff that is interesting

to me. Took a lot of concentration but I did it. For phone calls I

think I can write down what I want to say on a piece of paper. No one

is going to see me consulting my notes anyway. Now I am going to mark

up all my music and do a trial run-through as though I were at the

actual service so I can find places where I might miss my cue...

although I have done that before and missed it anyway, because I was

reading my notes over and over instead of being present in the moment

at the time I was supposed to do something.

I got a good email back from my friend who says my disclosure has

helped her think about things in our friendship that have always

bugged her. She is, I think very NT, except she DID say she wants to

take the AQ test... hmmmm. And the last time I saw her, since I had

read about the eye contact thing, I tried very hard to look at her,

and I noticed that SHE didn't make eye contact and even shifted her

position to be to the side of me rather than to the front. Hmmmmm....

Anyway she has a TON of friends, most of whom are NOT just mere

aquaintances, but DEEP CLOSE or whatever friendships. The kind I only

have with her and not with anyone else on the planet. She is INFJ and

I am INTP. I think if we were both INTP we would have just passed by

each other in life like the proverbial ships... She also said I am

VERY different from her other friends and I asked her to say EXACTLY

what that means, no holds barred, since I have NO CLUE. I figured I

was just kind of weird but not THAT different. So it will be

interesting to hear. I am glad she will do that for me. (I also

recognize that hers is just one opinion so I don't have to take it as

an absolute truth if i don't agree...)

I am actually INXP. I test about half INTP and half INFP when I do it

online. When I did the official Myers-Briggs I tested INTP but not

really huge on the T. I was very I, N, and P, but maybe about 53% T.

I think that helps me get along socially a bit better than some

people because I CAN pay attention to them as long as there aren't

too many other things going on at the same time. I'm just " F " enough

to notice that someone now has a look of displeasure on their face so

I must have just said something stupid!

I do leave room for myself, in my self-diagnosis journey, to NOT have

HFA/AS and to just be a social misfit who has to wear earplugs while

at work so that I can't hear anything, and who, if while working,

ROCKS, I can sit at my desk for 5 hours, feeling very happy and

soothed, but if I forget to rock, I can stay in my seat a max of

about ten minutes... and who forgets not only someone's name 1 minute

after meeting them but doesn't recognize their face and re-introduces

herself. ARGH! I've done that at least 3 times. Most of the time I

don't say anything, just try to figure out whether or not I know the

person or not....

Thanks for reading.

Rhonda

[Guest guest]

> The AQ I looked at was linked to Wired magazine online. ...

> Does anyone have links to the test other than WIRED?

I'd say that the AQ test being in Wired gives personal and

professional credibility to being on The Spectrum.

- s

[Guest guest]

It was 6 Jun 2006, when rhndroberts commented:

> If I am high-functioning enough to have not been labeled, until I

> labeled myself yesterday, would it make sense to tell people about it, so

> that I can tell them what helps me to function a bit better? Or, does it

> make more sense to just figure out what I need to make things work, and

> enlist some help without divulging anything about " autism spectrum " ? If

> someone knows you have AS or HFA or PDD, do they tend to tease you MORE

> about it or do they give you some slack?

In an adult environment, you're more likely to get more slack. What works

for me is to inform particular people, folks with some judgement and some

discretion. Those people will make an effort to moderate the behavior of

others. I don't make it a Big Secret, just something that is part of what

I deal with in my day-to-day, and I make some of the Bosses (assuming a

work environment here) aware that it may cause some difficulties for me.

In any environment, work included, you'll have to face some " loud and

aggressive persons. " Avoid them, if you can, let those you've explained

to deal with them if you must, and face them down yourself if you have to,

using only the necessary level of force, then let it drop. In my

experience, they'll either figure out that they need to change their

behavior, or they'll get fired, or I'll get fired, and then they're not my

problem anymore.

--

B. , another satisfied user of

Pegasus Mail Client and Mercury MTA <http://www.pmail.com>

<ftp://ftp.usm.maine.edu/pegasus/winpmail/w32-431.exe>

[Guest guest]

It was 7 Jun 2006, when Ari N. commented:

> I think you may be able to get it from a general psychologist or

> psychiatrist as well for a lesser cost, but I'm not sure. Jane would

> probably know better than I. As for IQ scores, they're somewhat arbitrary.

> One thing that is characteristic of being an Asperger's autistic however,

> is a much higher verbal IQ than performance IQ. Do you have that?

Speaking of IQ's, I was thinking the other day about my IQ from the one

time I was tested, many-many years ago, of about 141. That means, I

gather, that when I was the physical age of 10, my " mental age " was 14.

Okay, fine. So now, I'm 47, I have the mind of a 66-year-old? And is

that a Good Thing? ;-)

--

B. , another satisfied user of

Pegasus Mail Client and Mercury MTA <http://www.pmail.com>

<ftp://ftp.usm.maine.edu/pegasus/winpmail/w32-431.exe>