Re: people rubbing off on you, mirroring

[Guest guest]

this is a chilling thought:

" I have always said that if I hadn't

gotten into drugs and then taken the road to recovery out of

addiction I would have ended up just like my mother. "

I truly believe that recovery from alcoholism was the first place

I'd ever felt unconditional love in my life. I was blessed to be

surrounded by good, healthy folks when I got into recovery and it

was very positive for me, I was only 23 when I started and I could

have easily stayed out there alot longer but luckly my group was

full of people who'd gotten clean young so I had examples of people

who didn't have to use chemicals daily to get through life. I really

don't think I'd be here because i was barely functioning. I just had

no people skills at all, which I didn't even know til i went off to

college. There I was, stranded on campus, hours away from home, not

having the slightest idea how to relate to people or how to act. It

was bad, and I just dove into the bottle and stayed there for five

years.

I am glad to know there is someone else here that has that

experience, thanks for sharing it with me. I sometimes think that

some people who have bpd/bi-polar behaviors, if they cleaned up, did

counseling and step work might actually just be normal or non-

disordered people just showing signs of advanced addiction. I think

the personality disorders mimic the addiction behaviors really

closely too. I sometimes got guff from ACA's in meetings because

they felt no one could have a dysfunctional parent that wasn't

addict or alcoholic, they are a bit myopic in that respect; I

secretely envied them so much because they had something they could

point to and blame the problem on. I feel like now I have found what

the 'thing' is that made my dad nuts, even though he was not a

drinker.

[Guest guest]

Excellent point, Mayalisa -- and good for you for getting yourself

into recovery and finding out who you really are and can become!!

-- I have often wondered about that connection myself. It

seems that the BPD and the Narcissist find each other. My dad is

rather self centered in that he doesn't consider my viewpoint about

my mother AT ALL. Just dismisses me until I go rescue her like he

wants, because it suits HIM. If I don't, he gives me the cold

shoulder just like her. He has plenty to do with my brother, but

nothing to do with me.

I think one major component of these personality disorders is self-

centeredness, perhaps because they were emotionally neglected as

children themselves. So, when they grow up and have children of

their own, they can't relate to our need for parental attention and

nurturing. In fact, I think they resent that we need it, probably

because it freshens the wound in them that didn't get it from THEIR

parents.

My parents thought that if we were fed and housed, their job was

done. There was affection, but not a lot of INTEREST in us. Not a

lot of interest in teaching us the tools to make our way in the

world, much less take a big bite out of life. My mother was trying

to survive her fear of life, and dad was too busy coddling her and

staying away from her rages. He hid behind " making a living " . They

were both self indulgently nursing their own wounds, at our expense.

-Kyla

this is a chilling

thought:

>

> " I have always said that if I hadn't

> gotten into drugs and then taken the road to recovery out of

> addiction I would have ended up just like my mother. "

>

>

[Guest guest]

To say it more succinctly (than my last post!), I believe self-

centeredness is at the root of personality disorders. Self-

centeredness that is the result of wounds, no doubt. But Self-

centeredness it is.

[Guest guest]

You just described my family's dynamic EXACTLY. It's amazing how there

are these repeat patterns of dysfunction. I felt so alone as a child,

but I was never alone. We were all out there having variations of the

same experience. This has been the biggest eye-opener for me and my

biggest source of comfort.

Nonetheless, I want all this abuse to end. I'm glad that some of the

people here are breaking free of BPD-entanglements at a young age.

I've (somehow) managed to have a good life, but I also have a lot of

regrets--I was enmeshed with my nada/fada for such a long time and was

so clueless. I wonder what I would have accomplished had I been truly

free and been in possession of my own energy.

It would be great if there was a way to help very young children who

are presently stuck in BPD households.

this is a chilling

> thought:

> >

> > " I have always said that if I hadn't

> > gotten into drugs and then taken the road to recovery out of

> > addiction I would have ended up just like my mother. "

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That's an amazing point! It would be great if these

emotional/behavioral addictions were recognized.

this is a chilling thought:

>

> " I have always said that if I hadn't

> gotten into drugs and then taken the road to recovery out of

> addiction I would have ended up just like my mother. "

>

> I truly believe that recovery from alcoholism was the first place

> I'd ever felt unconditional love in my life. I was blessed to be

> surrounded by good, healthy folks when I got into recovery and it

> was very positive for me, I was only 23 when I started and I could

> have easily stayed out there alot longer but luckly my group was

> full of people who'd gotten clean young so I had examples of people

> who didn't have to use chemicals daily to get through life. I really

> don't think I'd be here because i was barely functioning. I just had

> no people skills at all, which I didn't even know til i went off to

> college. There I was, stranded on campus, hours away from home, not

> having the slightest idea how to relate to people or how to act. It

> was bad, and I just dove into the bottle and stayed there for five

> years.

>

> I am glad to know there is someone else here that has that

> experience, thanks for sharing it with me. I sometimes think that

> some people who have bpd/bi-polar behaviors, if they cleaned up, did

> counseling and step work might actually just be normal or non-

> disordered people just showing signs of advanced addiction. I think

> the personality disorders mimic the addiction behaviors really

> closely too. I sometimes got guff from ACA's in meetings because

> they felt no one could have a dysfunctional parent that wasn't

> addict or alcoholic, they are a bit myopic in that respect; I

> secretely envied them so much because they had something they could

> point to and blame the problem on. I feel like now I have found what

> the 'thing' is that made my dad nuts, even though he was not a

> drinker.

>

> ---------------------------------

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>

>

[Guest guest]

Bink,

I've noticed I do this sometimes but I usually catch myself at it and

quit. However, I notice immediately if someone mimics me. Even if

it's meant to be a compliment (imitation as the sincerest form of

flattery BS) I absolutely cannot stand it when someone copies me or

imitates me. I think it's because my nada used to mimic me and make

fun of me that way. Like a child, y'know? I'd say something and she'd

parrot it right back at me with a snide look, hands on her hips,

kindergarten style.

Mercy

>

> hey, this thought just popped into my mind. when i was little,

> whenever i would go to a friend's house, even if it was for just a few

> hours, i would always pick up some mannerism or speech pattern that

> was specific to my friend.

[Guest guest]

> [...]

> Its an unfortunate reality that man made churches represent the

physical side of spirituality and, often, are used as tools by

explotative mortals to use, abuse, etc. It is important to realize the

diference between true God and man made religion. There's a good saying

that goes " God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts " .

That's awesome. I completely agree.

Mercy

[Guest guest]

I love that term " anti-parent " . That is an apt description.

> > I would rather contend with an addict over a narcissist any day.

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

>

[Guest guest]

I found what you wrote about ACAs interesting. My ex-husband was an

ACA but never participated in any therapy to address it. As a

consequence, he's spent the better part of his life in denial about

pretty much everything. I never could quite articulate what

was " wrong " with my family when we were married because I didn't have

a name for it yet. But the part you wrote about " they look at you as

someone who 'had it better' " rang very true to me. I distinctly

remember having that conversation with him. The concept of co-

dependency and enmeshment go well beyond addictions, yet it is seldom

acknowleged.

I have always had a greater sense of self than my brother (he also

married an ACA who is quite possibly BPD...another whole story) which

gave me the confidence to stand up for myself...but there was always

that voice of self-doubt in my head that I stuggled with and still do

to a larger degree than I would like. Getting a compliment still

surprises me having been pre-programmed to never quite measure up.

Ah well!

>

> AA does have a 'primary purpose' (alcoholism) and they do that

well.

> It works best, I think for people who are alcoholic/addicted and

who

> are ACA's (adult children of alcoholics) both. I was the former but

> not the latter, drinking was the one thing my mother wouldn't

> tolerate from my dad because of her alcoholic father. I think there

> are many ACA's out there who think having an alcoholic parent is

the

> worst possible thing that could happen to one, as if they have a

> monopoly on pain or something. It's because AA was so successful

> and cornered the market on counseling dysfunction; primarily, I

> think because there *is* something you can't point to and say 'that

> is the problem, and when you take that away, things get better'.

> Being the child of a non-addicted disordered personality is a lot

> harder to understand and articulate I think. It's more complex, and

> there is nothing that can be surgically removed. It can make you

> feel crazy if you are around ACA's too much and they look at you as

> someone who 'had it better'. I've known many ACA's and the truth is

> that most of them have a much more solid sense of self than me and

> other people I suspect had personality disordered parents, and part

> of it I think is because half the time the addicted parent wasn't

> around/conscious/in touch with reality/what have you. They just

were

> not present, and there may have been for freedom for the ACA to

> develop a sense of self, because they didn't have a parent that was

> focused 24/7 on destroying it like some of us KO's did. My parents

> were fundamentalist evangelicals and we were supposed to fit a

> certain mold; we were not supposed to be human beings but robots

> programmed by the scriptures. I would have loved for them to have

> been zoned out in addiction about half the time. I am not trying to

> detract from the experience of the ACA but I am at the point of not

> wanting the experience of the KO of a bpd/npd devalued or dismissed

> either.

>

[Guest guest]

,

You asked if the rest of us have ever felt like kind of discomfort

with receiving a compliment - I can say y-e-s! Thanks for writing down

all those " Nada " thoughts. Your list of things you think while someone

compliments you really, really resonated with me!

I have a very hard time at work, where my immediate boss really

appreciates my work. Here's what I did during my performance review

last year: I squeezed the skin on my knew between the long finger

nails on my right thumb and forefinger during the several minutes'

duration of his praise. I also noticed I kept holding my breath

instead of breathing.

Sadly, I found this the only way I could " endure " it without a)

denying that I was responsible for any of the things he said crying

c) abruptly leaving the office.

Don't get me wrong - I'm proud to be doing a good job. I just can't

handle being in a closed office space with someone smiling and

recounting the notes they'd made about good things I'd done for our

group.

Again, I feel a little ashamed even to write this down! I'm so

thankful to have this group so I can " confess " how I feel.

- April

> >

> > AA does have a 'primary purpose' (alcoholism) and they do that

> well.

> > It works best, I think for people who are alcoholic/addicted and

> who

> > are ACA's (adult children of alcoholics) both. I was the former but

> > not the latter, drinking was the one thing my mother wouldn't

> > tolerate from my dad because of her alcoholic father. I think there

> > are many ACA's out there who think having an alcoholic parent is

> the

> > worst possible thing that could happen to one, as if they have a

> > monopoly on pain or something. It's because AA was so successful

> > and cornered the market on counseling dysfunction; primarily, I

> > think because there *is* something you can't point to and say 'that

> > is the problem, and when you take that away, things get better'.

> > Being the child of a non-addicted disordered personality is a lot

> > harder to understand and articulate I think. It's more complex, and

> > there is nothing that can be surgically removed. It can make you

> > feel crazy if you are around ACA's too much and they look at you as

> > someone who 'had it better'. I've known many ACA's and the truth is

> > that most of them have a much more solid sense of self than me and

> > other people I suspect had personality disordered parents, and part

> > of it I think is because half the time the addicted parent wasn't

> > around/conscious/in touch with reality/what have you. They just

> were

> > not present, and there may have been for freedom for the ACA to

> > develop a sense of self, because they didn't have a parent that was

> > focused 24/7 on destroying it like some of us KO's did. My parents

> > were fundamentalist evangelicals and we were supposed to fit a

> > certain mold; we were not supposed to be human beings but robots

> > programmed by the scriptures. I would have loved for them to have

> > been zoned out in addiction about half the time. I am not trying to

> > detract from the experience of the ACA but I am at the point of not

> > wanting the experience of the KO of a bpd/npd devalued or dismissed

> > either.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

When I was in my 20's (I am 42 now), a compliment about my appearance

would make me angry. I could not accept it at face value. I saw it

as harrassment. Someone I was close to pointed out my reaction then

and I started thinking about it. I realized my anger came from

being " teased " that I was ugly as a teenager by my non-BPD father. I

managed to change my response at the time (my response changed from

anger to surprise), but I still struggle with a compliment.

My Nada never had expectations that I would succeed at my goals.

This despite all the evidence in my favor. She could express

happiness for me when something good happened, but somewhere deep in

recesses she was always expecting the floor to fall out from under

her. If they were laying people off at a local assembly plant, she

was sure I would be next to lose my job. I was speaking with a

friend on Friday and said, " You know, I know I'm good at my job. Why

am I surprised that I am given a raise? Why am I surprised that I'm

acknowledged for excelling? "

It's those darn fleas of negativity I need to exterminate! But it's

hard to keep it all in perspective. I am sure in my NADAs case, she

was just projecting...she didn't feel adequate, so therefore by

association, I was and will always be, inadequate.

>

> Wow, its wild, I react the same way when I get a compliment. I feel

so uncomfortable when anyone compliments me because I feel that:

>

> 1) They are only saying it to get my guard down. Once my guard is

down they will sadictically attack and hurt me.

> 2) I hear my Nada voice in my head subconsciously when people

compliment me. It says " They just don't know it yet but you are a

rotten loser. Don't think they'll be fooled long " .

> 3) Sounds crazy, but I actually feel scared and " dirty " when

someone compliments me. I feel like somehow I have taken something

that I don't deserve. Like I've stolen something and am about to get

caught.I feel like that when people give me any attention too.

> 4) I feel like they are talking about someone else, like a

character in a movie. Of course, whenver they say something hurtful I

always accept they it is me and not someone else they are talking

about.

>

> Do the rest of you ever feel that way?

>

[Guest guest]

my guy friends just plain know not to give me compliments ever. i

react with ANGER...like, what does he want from me? i also get

mega-pissed when people say i'm attractive...grrrrrrrr...they don't

know what is inside of me. if they did, they'd probably change their

tune.

with people at work or strangers, i give them an, " aw shucks " which

allows me not to have to accept the compliment OR reject it and most

people find it endearing. if my husband gives me a compliment, i used

to respond with " whatever, shut up " or " whatever, you're stupid. " now

i'm just quiet when he says nice stuff and smile. i think he figures

that i didn't hear nice stuff when i was younger, so he basically

gives me (genuine) compliments every friggin day to counteract some of

the negative stuff. after 8 years, i have to say it seems to be

working...

> >

> > Wow, its wild, I react the same way when I get a compliment. I feel

> so uncomfortable when anyone compliments me because I feel that:

> >

> > 1) They are only saying it to get my guard down. Once my guard is

> down they will sadictically attack and hurt me.

> > 2) I hear my Nada voice in my head subconsciously when people

> compliment me. It says " They just don't know it yet but you are a

> rotten loser. Don't think they'll be fooled long " .

> > 3) Sounds crazy, but I actually feel scared and " dirty " when

> someone compliments me. I feel like somehow I have taken something

> that I don't deserve. Like I've stolen something and am about to get

> caught.I feel like that when people give me any attention too.

> > 4) I feel like they are talking about someone else, like a

> character in a movie. Of course, whenver they say something hurtful I

> always accept they it is me and not someone else they are talking

> about.

> >

> > Do the rest of you ever feel that way?

> >

>