Re: re: high carbs, low carb diet

[Guest guest]

This is the first time I've heard that, but it would certainly explain why

some diabetics do okay on the traditional " high carb " (food pyramid

grains-on-the-bottom) diet. However, I would say, from my experience on

several diabetes lists (and of course this is a slanted sample) that

diabetics who get good BG control using low carbing are in the majority. I

have read of many who have failed to get good control using the " traditional "

medical advice but have great success, i.e. lower BGs, lower A1Cs, good

weight loss and lowered lipid levels too -- with the aid of low carb eating.

I know it has certainly worked for me. Vicki

In a message dated 01-07-12 10:54:40 EDT, you write:

<< He said that research is showing that people fall into two basic

categories....those who do well on a high carb diet, and those who do

well on low carb....AND NEVER THE TWAIN SHALL MEET!! Those on high carb

need a low fat diet. Low Carber's tolerate fats better and even require

them. >>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01-07-12 14:11:12 EDT, you write:

<< I bet if you took a poll that you'd find that a substantial number of the

" lurkers " , do not do low carb but don't care to talk about it.

>>

Well, I sure don't want to open that can of worms again, O'Neill! Since this

isn't strictly a lowcarb list, I've tried to modify my POV. Yes, I lowcarb

and it works for me...I do realize there are other methods of control and as

a matter of fact, the original post pointed out the possible reason for this,

which is what I responded to. However, it does seem that a lot of

physicians and CDEs don't even tell their newly diagnosed diabetic patients

that lowcarb is a possible way to lower BGs so that's one of the reasons I

put it forward. Vicki

[Guest guest]

" However, I would say, from my experience on

several diabetes lists (and of course this is a slanted sample) that

diabetics who get good BG control using low carbing are in the majority "

I think it's very slanted.since those of us who get good control on diets other

than low carbs, don't bother to talk about it on any given list if for no other

reason than we don't want to get in an argument about it.For some reason or

other

,ow carbers seem to be very possessive about their way of eating. I forgot what

said was the total membership of this list but it's terribly obvious that

only a handful post a message with any degree of regularity and with the

exception of one or two, they're all low carbers. I bet if you took a poll that

you'd find that a substantial number of the " lurkers " , do not do low carb but

don't care to talk about it.

O'Neil

whimsy2@... wrote:

> This is the first time I've heard that, but it would certainly explain why

> some diabetics do okay on the traditional " high carb " (food pyramid

> grains-on-the-bottom) diet. However, I would say, from my experience on

> several diabetes lists (and of course this is a slanted sample) that

> diabetics who get good BG control using low carbing are in the majority. I

> have read of many who have failed to get good control using the " traditional "

> medical advice but have great success, i.e. lower BGs, lower A1Cs, good

> weight loss and lowered lipid levels too -- with the aid of low carb eating.

> I know it has certainly worked for me. Vicki

>

> In a message dated 01-07-12 10:54:40 EDT, you write:

>

> << He said that research is showing that people fall into two basic

> categories....those who do well on a high carb diet, and those who do

> well on low carb....AND NEVER THE TWAIN SHALL MEET!! Those on high carb

> need a low fat diet. Low Carber's tolerate fats better and even require

> them. >>

>

> Website for Diabetes International:

> http://www.msteri.com/diabetes-info/diabetes_int

>

> Post message: diabetes_int

> Subscribe: diabetes_int-subscribe

> Unsubscribe: diabetes_int-unsubscribe

> List owner: diabetes_int-owner /

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/diabetes_int or try:

> http://www.yahoo.com > Join A Group > diabetes_int > Join This Group

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

O'Neil wrote:

>

> " However, I would say, from my experience on

> several diabetes lists (and of course this is a slanted sample) that

> diabetics who get good BG control using low carbing are in the majority "

>

> I think it's very slanted.since those of us who get good control on diets

other

> than low carbs, don't bother to talk about it on any given list if for no

other

> reason than we don't want to get in an argument about it.For some reason or

other

> ,ow carbers seem to be very possessive about their way of eating. I forgot

what

> said was the total membership of this list but it's terribly obvious

that

> only a handful post a message with any degree of regularity and with the

> exception of one or two, they're all low carbers. I bet if you took a poll

that

> you'd find that a substantial number of the " lurkers " , do not do low carb but

> don't care to talk about it.

> O'Neil

Yup, I agree.

>

> whimsy2@... wrote:

>

> > This is the first time I've heard that, but it would certainly explain why

> > some diabetics do okay on the traditional " high carb " (food pyramid

> > grains-on-the-bottom) diet. However, I would say, from my experience on

> > several diabetes lists (and of course this is a slanted sample) that

> > diabetics who get good BG control using low carbing are in the majority. I

> > have read of many who have failed to get good control using the

" traditional "

> > medical advice but have great success, i.e. lower BGs, lower A1Cs, good

> > weight loss and lowered lipid levels too -- with the aid of low carb eating.

> > I know it has certainly worked for me. Vicki

> >

--

Dave - 2:02:41 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, U & H

A 4th generation Diabetic

-

Davors Daily Aphorism:

I've learned....

That I wish I could have told my Mom that I love her one more time

before she passed away.

--Andy Rooney-

--

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/12/01 2:32:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fencible@...

writes:

<< O'Neil wrote:

>

> " However, I would say, from my experience on

> several diabetes lists (and of course this is a slanted sample) that

> diabetics who get good BG control using low carbing are in the majority "

>

> I think it's very slanted.since those of us who get good control on diets

other

> than low carbs, don't bother to talk about it on any given list if for no

other

> reason than we don't want to get in an argument about it.For some reason

or other

> ,ow carbers seem to be very possessive about their way of eating. I

forgot what

> said was the total membership of this list but it's terribly obvious

that

> only a handful post a message with any degree of regularity and with the

> exception of one or two, they're all low carbers. I bet if you took a poll

that

> you'd find that a substantial number of the " lurkers " , do not do low carb

but

> don't care to talk about it.

> O'Neil

Yup, I agree. >>

After I joined this list I thought it was only about low carb diets and I am

not able to stick to a low carb diet because I am so picky. And I had wrote

and email about how wonderful I was doing just cutting my portions and eating

my regular carb foods and I am off the meds after only 3 weeks...but it never

seemed to get posted. Anyway, my numbers are high again 1-2 hours after

meals but all the doctor seems to care about is the numbers in the morning,

before lunch and dinner and at bedtime so I guess they won't know that

although those numbers are low 90-140, my post meal numbers are back up to

250-300.

dx 6/8/2001

prinivil, Lopid

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/12/01 11:10:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

okelly@... writes:

> .For some reason or other low carbers seem to be very possessive about their

>

---------

I don't know about " possessive. " I'd be more inclined to say, " passionate. "

It's only because from the research I've done I believe it is a better way to

control diabetes. Only yesterday, I read in a magazine about an Air Force

pilot who had to get out of the service because he had become legally

blinded. He was getting plenty of exercise but had been eating according to

the ADA, which I believe is way out of date.

I, for one, wish to avoid the complications that this nasty disease can cause

and I'm sure other LCers such as myself are only trying to let it be known

that it not only is a safe way to eat, but much healthier.

As Dr. Bernstein says in his book, all the diabetics he grew up with are long

since dead. He not only isn't dead, but pretty darn healthy for a type 1

diabetic who has had this since he was 13.

Sorry if the non lowcarb people on this list think we are being " pushy, " but

it is out of love and concern, not nastiness.

in Seattle...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/12/01 11:32:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

fencible@... writes:

> I bet if you took a poll that

> > you'd find that a substantial number of the " lurkers " , do not do low carb

> but

> > don't care to talk about it.

>

PS: Lurkers not following a lowcarb diet " should " speak up. It is only when

information is shared that we can learn what does and doesn't work. If the

posts are biased, it's not the LCers fault. We are not stopping anyone from

posting.

I am fairly new to this list so I don't know what's gone on in the past. I

can only judge by what has been posted in the past few weeks. This is NOT a

fun disease. We need all the input we can garner. That is why I joined this

group, information.

[Guest guest]

Oh, , can you make someone care? Will they do an A1c for you? Those

after meal numbers are awfully high.

I'm sorry your previous message didn't make it to the list. I know we miss

one or two here and there. E-mail isn't perfect, I'm afraid.

I try to make sure this isn't a low carb only list, but I do recommend that

newcomers lower their carbs, because a lot of newly dx'd people are

overweight, insulin resistant Syndrome X types, and lowering their carb

intake is a good way not only to jump start weight loss and better control,

but also to start an awareness that some foods do send our bs up. The

operative word from me is lower, not necessarily low. It's testing and

testing and keeping good notes that lets each of us know what works for us.

I really hope you can get someone to listen to you about your pp numbers.

Barb

> And I had wrote

> and email about how wonderful I was doing just cutting my portions and

eating

> my regular carb foods and I am off the meds after only 3 weeks...but it

never

> seemed to get posted. Anyway, my numbers are high again 1-2 hours after

> meals but all the doctor seems to care about is the numbers in the

morning,

> before lunch and dinner and at bedtime so I guess they won't know that

> although those numbers are low 90-140, my post meal numbers are back up to

> 250-300.

[Guest guest]

Oh those numbers are dangerous! If I go over 140 I think I have not

done well. Just my opinion but be careful.

E

dx'd 2/16/01-T2

hbA1c 2/16/01= 11.7

hbA1c 4/20/01=6.7

hbA1c 6/26/01= 5.0

44 yrs old,diet & exercise

Anyway, my numbers are high again 1-2 hours after

meals but all the doctor seems to care about is the numbers in the morning,

before lunch and dinner and at bedtime so I guess they won't know that

although those numbers are low 90-140, my post meal numbers are back up to

250-300.

dx 6/8/2001

prinivil, Lopid

[Guest guest]

1929@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 7/12/01 2:32:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fencible@...

> writes:

>

> << O'Neil wrote:

> >

> > " However, I would say, from my experience on

> > several diabetes lists (and of course this is a slanted sample) that

> > diabetics who get good BG control using low carbing are in the majority "

> >

> > I think it's very slanted.since those of us who get good control on diets

> other

> > than low carbs, don't bother to talk about it on any given list if for no

> other

> > reason than we don't want to get in an argument about it.For some reason

> or other

> > ,ow carbers seem to be very possessive about their way of eating. I

> forgot what

> > said was the total membership of this list but it's terribly obvious

> that

> > only a handful post a message with any degree of regularity and with the

> > exception of one or two, they're all low carbers. I bet if you took a poll

> that

> > you'd find that a substantial number of the " lurkers " , do not do low carb

> but

> > don't care to talk about it.

> > O'Neil

>

> Yup, I agree. >>

>

> After I joined this list I thought it was only about low carb diets and I am

> not able to stick to a low carb diet because I am so picky. And I had wrote

> and email about how wonderful I was doing just cutting my portions and eating

> my regular carb foods and I am off the meds after only 3 weeks...but it never

> seemed to get posted.

I saw your post , although I was a little sceptical about going off

the meds after only 3 weeks.

Anyway, my numbers are high again 1-2 hours after

> meals but all the doctor seems to care about is the numbers in the morning,

> before lunch and dinner and at bedtime so I guess they won't know that

> although those numbers are low 90-140, my post meal numbers are back up to

> 250-300.

IMHO, your doctor is missing the boat there. You must know from reading

this list that the two readings for a type 2 to watch are the peak at 1

hour and being under 160 (at least) after two hours. Many want to be

even lower.

What diabetic meds were you on? Did you take yourself off the meds or

did your doctor?

>

>

> dx 6/8/2001

> prinivil, Lopid

--

Dave - 9:20:54 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, U & H

A 4th generation Diabetic

-

Davors Daily Aphorism:

Death: to stop sinning suddenly.

--

[Guest guest]

>IMHO, your doctor is missing the boat there. You must know from reading

this list that the two readings for a type 2 to watch are the peak at 1

hour and being under 160 (at least) after two hours. Many want to be

even lower.

Can you explain this? My husband's doctor has him checking right before

breakfast and right before dinner. He is type 2. Are these incorrect times?

Thank you.

[Guest guest]

, carbohydrates raise our blood sugar, and the only way you can know

how much the food he ate raises his blood sugar is to test 1 to 2 hours

after eating a meal. The only way to know exactly how much a meal raises

his blood sugar and how long the peak lasts, is to test before his meal and

1, 2 and 3 hours after his meal. This is how most of us choose which foods

work best for us. I can't keep my blood sugar as close as possible to 100,

if I don't test alot. This disease is self managed, and eating and testing

and writing everything down is how we learn to get the best way of eating

for each of us and, consequently, the best control.

Barb

> Can you explain this? My husband's doctor has him checking right before

breakfast and right before dinner. He is type 2. Are these incorrect

times?

[Guest guest]

Kelleka wrote:

>

> >IMHO, your doctor is missing the boat there. You must know from reading

> this list that the two readings for a type 2 to watch are the peak at 1

> hour and being under 160 (at least) after two hours. Many want to be

> even lower.

>

> Can you explain this? My husband's doctor has him checking right before

breakfast and right before dinner. He is type 2. Are these incorrect times?

> Thank you.

>

Your doctor wants a fasting bg test, which is important to know, but it

is more important for a type 1 to test before meals in order to adjust

insulin needs. I don't know what your doctor thinks that a before meal

reading (other than breakfast) will do for a type 2. Check out the URLs

at the bottom of this message. Search for post prandial readings and you

will get a good understanding of what is necessary for type 2 control.

Some try to attain non-diabetic numbers at 2 hours PP (70-120), but

generally references will tell you to be under 160 at 2 hours, and some

even 140. I know myself, 140 is the number. Most try to not peak over

180 at the one hours point as it's becoming more clear that long-term

damage is being done at that point.

--

Dave - 9:41:54 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, U & H

A 4th generation Diabetic

-

Davors Daily Aphorism:

Funny off-topic messages are always on-topic.

--

[Guest guest]

KDRuede@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 7/12/01 11:10:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> okelly@... writes:

>

> > .For some reason or other low carbers seem to be very possessive about their

> >

>

> ---------

> I don't know about " possessive. " I'd be more inclined to say, " passionate. "

> It's only because from the research I've done I believe it is a better way to

> control diabetes. Only yesterday, I read in a magazine about an Air Force

> pilot who had to get out of the service because he had become legally

> blinded. He was getting plenty of exercise but had been eating according to

> the ADA, which I believe is way out of date.

Yup, I agree that it's out of date. But, I also believe that the pilot

was removed from the service because type 1s can't fly, period. It's

also a disability for him for which he will receive a life-time pension.

>

> I, for one, wish to avoid the complications that this nasty disease can cause

> and I'm sure other LCers such as myself are only trying to let it be known

> that it not only is a safe way to eat, but much healthier.

If you read the archives here, you will see that you don't have to

crusade to make it known.. You can present your ideas on what you feel

is correct for you, period.

>

> As Dr. Bernstein says in his book, all the diabetics he grew up with are long

> since dead. He not only isn't dead, but pretty darn healthy for a type 1

> diabetic who has had this since he was 13.

He is not the only source of information on diabetes. I have read his

book, perused his web site, and gathered some good info, but I don't

kneel to him in the morning like many seem to.

>

> Sorry if the non lowcarb people on this list think we are being " pushy, " but

> it is out of love and concern, not nastiness.

I'm gonna be easy here and tell you that I don't need your love and

concern, nor your pushiness, which I feel it is, so stash it.

I do need your ideas on what works for you. I don't need a re-take on

the LC-MC-HC wars. Again, check the archives.

We can get pretty vocal also, although what it has tended to do is make

very good people just say the hell with it and unsubscribe.

Sure, you can win the discussion that way, but it's not the right way

IMHO.

Some of us have dealt with this disease for a long time you know.

--

Dave - 9:50:55 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, U & H

A 4th generation Diabetic

-

Davors Daily Aphorism:

If it's too loud, you're too old.

--

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I will. I hope to talk to my doctor today and get back on some type of

diabetes pill. I was doing wonderful and then I got an infection and my numbers

just started soaring again. I finished my antibotic yesterday so I be checking

to see how my numbers are now.

[Guest guest]

I have my A1C done again next Tuesday. My very first one was 4 weeks ago at

diagnosis. It was 9.6. I can look back and know that I have had diabetes a

year or two before dx. My kidney's and liver have damage. I don't know what

they will do about that. My insurance company is great with Diabetes. I have

Kaiser and they first put you through a 2 hour Diabetes Clinic and now I am in

the 6 hour course. I am a take charge person and last month at dx I read

everybook I could find on it (over 50). I just have to be honest with myself

and my doctor and realize I will never be free of diabetes pills because I can't

do a total low carb diet. In 4 weeks I have burnt out on the only 2 veggies and

fruits that I can eat.

[Guest guest]

Barb, I am going to try the Glucophage again. I am under stress everyday in my

life (because of my daughters bipolar disorder). So I hope one of these meds

will help control my numbers.

[Guest guest]

Yes I just started a multi vitamin last week and I take an asprin a day.

[Guest guest]

, infections will send your bs soaring, as will stress. It could be you

just need something extra in the way of control for these unforeseen times.

The only thing I know that you can use periodically is insulin. But there

might be a drug now, I just don't know.

Barb

Re: re: high carbs, low carb diet

> Thanks. I will. I hope to talk to my doctor today and get back on some

type of diabetes pill. I was doing wonderful and then I got an infection

and my numbers just started soaring again

[Guest guest]

, I hope you're taking a multi vitamin, if you can't eat veggies or

fruit. I have a sister like that.

Barb

> just have to be honest with myself and my doctor and realize I will never

be free of diabetes pills because I can't do a total low carb diet. In 4

weeks I have burnt out on the only 2 veggies and fruits that I can eat.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/13/01 8:50:31 AM Central Daylight Time,

RainbowFarm@... writes:

<< The only thing I know that you can use periodically is insulin. But there

might be a drug now, I just don't know.

>>

I wonder if starlix would work in this instance. I don't know ....it is out

of the system in a few hours...just an idea...I know that I delete my starlix

if my pre meal number is low and I am having a limited carb meal...except for

breakfast...when my body thinks water is full of sugar.

ressy

[Guest guest]

Glenna wrote:

>

> DaveO question, please explain your statement, i am just courious,( because

type 1s can't fly, period.) do you mean as a piolet, ones in the airforce, or do

you mean they the type 1's in general can't fly. and why.

Type 1s can not be certified for flying in the US commercially,

militarily, and I'm quite sure privately. This is due to the possibility

of having a hypo while flying for one. In some states, it is becoming

harder for drivers to obtain licenses if diabetic and is a coming trend

I think.

looking for an excuse not to get in a airplane you might say is why i am

asking.

Hey.. I have 20 yrs AF, retired, and am exactly the same.

--

Dave - 10:06:11 AM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, U & H

A 4th generation Diabetic

-

Davors Daily Aphorism:

Remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

--

[Guest guest]

Please don't unsubscribe....for some reason there has been an increase all

over the web with rudeness and loutisness. Their mothers would be horrified!

Ann

KDRuede@... wrote:

>

> I'm gonna be easy here and tell you that I don't need your love and

> concern, nor your pushiness, which I feel it is, so stash it.

>

> I do need your ideas on what works for you. I don't need a re-take on

> the LC-MC-HC wars. Again, check the archives.

>

> We can get pretty vocal also, although what it has tended to do is

> make very good people just say the hell with it and unsubscribe.

> ---------------

>

> I don't beleive my post deserved this kind of reply. And I will take

> your advice and unsubscribe. There are pleny of other diabetes sites

> besides this one.

>

> in Seattle...

>

> Website for Diabetes International:

> http://www.msteri.com/diabetes-info/diabetes_int

>

> Post message: diabetes_int

> Subscribe: diabetes_int-subscribe

> Unsubscribe: diabetes_int-unsubscribe

> List owner: diabetes_int-owner /

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/diabetes_int or try:

> http://www.yahoo.com > Join A Group > diabetes_int > Join This Group

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Glenna wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

---------------------------------------

> First DaveO- that was well mean, sorry but it was no need to be that way, we

all have a different woe, so can we keep the tone to a friendly informative one,

keep the anger and frusrations to a low. for one i am glad to see some who can

eat a more viratity of foods, wish i could, but i am not jeoulous. i eat how i

can. and you have givin some great advise keep it up. and your humor is

priceless.

>

> Secound in Seattle, there is no need to unsub. if you offended say so,

let it be known, then go on with life, this group has a lot of great knowlege

and information, that we all can learn from, and unsubing just takes that all

away. i too am a bit tired of the heated arguments over the woe's here. but a

lot of good info comes out of the fighting. just hang in there. huggs to you

both, DaveO you got weather you want them or not.

Ha, well I thought I was being reserved at that.

I could see a flag starting to wave. To me, and many others who are in

the background here, someone pushing/touting LC as " the way " is

inflammatory, sort of like religious fanaticism, and I don't deal well

with either. So, I thought I was being polite, but firm.

Anyway, I agree, and I did say, that it's important to hear both sides

of the story. The story has to be told with the understanding that there

other ways of dealing with this disease.

I can deal with the hug also, so backatcha.

--

Dave - 10:57:12 AM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, U & H

A 4th generation Diabetic

-

Daily Aphorism:

Procrastination: The art of keeping up with yesterday.

--

[Guest guest]

Ann Sokolowski wrote:

>

> Please don't unsubscribe....for some reason there has been an increase all

> over the web with rudeness and loutisness. Their mothers would be horrified!

>

My Mother would be quite happy actually. She's 90 years old, a long-term

diabetic with *no* complications, and is probably as far from LC'ing as

you could be.

Did you happen to see her on NBC nightly news last Friday in the family

section? She stated that she was brought up on a daily dose of castor

oil.

Rudness ( & loutishness ^^is that a word?^^) is in the eye of the

beholder.

--

Dave - 11:03:13 AM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, U & H

A 4th generation Diabetic

-

Davors Daily Aphorism:

You're not paranoid if everybody is really after you.

--