Re: middle road

July 13, 2001

Sam, Thanks for the information. I will try that. My morning number is

staying about 110. I am just having trouble with the soaring numbers 1-2 hours

after eating. I am going to try the glucophage starting tomorrow.

July 13, 2001

In a message dated 01-07-13 10:59:37 EDT, you write:

<<

Sam, Thanks for the information. I will try that. My morning number is

staying about 110. I am just having trouble with the soaring numbers 1-2

hours after eating. I am going to try the glucophage starting tomorrow.

>>

Hi, , be sure to give the Glucophage a fair trial...at least a few weeks.

It takes time to build up. You need to take it regularly. Also, it isn't

really effective in doses of under 1500, tho your doc may start you off on a

very low dose and increase gradually to avoid the GI side effects. Vicki

July 13, 2001

, i kept lowering my peaks until I had them in control. I eat more

often, smaller amounts. Sam

July 13, 2001

Thanks Sam. I have not tried the smaller meals, more times a day. I will

try that this weekend and see how it goes. I have been doing the 3 meals a

day with no snacks. Maybe that's what I need to lower the spikes. I will

let you know how it turns out.

dx 6/8/2001

prinivil, Lopid, Glucophage

July 13, 2001

> Hi, , be sure to give the Glucophage a fair trial...at least a few weeks.

> It takes time to build up. You need to take it regularly. Also, it isn't

> really effective in doses of under 1500, tho your doc may start you off on a

> very low dose and increase gradually to avoid the GI side effects. Vicki

I don't understand this, Vicki. Everyone on here who's mentioned Glucophage

says that you need to take At Least 1500 mg for it to be effective. That must

be another YMMV. I took 1000 mg (500 twice a day) for over a year and it

worked just fine. No side effects and it brought my A1c down to 6.0. I could

see no reason to increase the dosage.

Annette

July 14, 2001

In a message dated 7/14/01 1:05:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

aducedre@... writes:

> I don't understand this, Vicki. Everyone on here who's mentioned Glucophage

> says that you need to take At Least 1500 mg for it to be effective. That

> must be another YMMV. I took 1000 mg (500 twice a day) for over a year

and it

> worked just fine. No side effects and it brought my A1c down to 6.0. I

> could see no reason to increase the dosage.

I believe this is another YMMV issue; I started on glucophage with the

intention of using 1500 mg/day. My numbers normalized after about 3 weeks;

the Dr reduced me to 1000 mg/day. After 6 months, I started to drop below

70 2 hours postprandially (Dr was surprised!) so I went off orals. Since

then, I've been fine. Hba1cs have been between 4.9 - 5.4 (normal <6).

wrote:

<

July 14, 2001

I am on 1000 mg also (500 twice a day) and it works fine for me too.

Anne

Re: middle road

> Hi, , be sure to give the Glucophage a fair trial...at least a few

> weeks. It takes time to build up. You need to take it regularly.

> Also, it isn't really effective in doses of under 1500, tho your doc

> may start you off on a very low dose and increase gradually to avoid

> the GI side effects. Vicki

I don't understand this, Vicki. Everyone on here who's mentioned

Glucophage says that you need to take At Least 1500 mg for it to be

effective. That must

be another YMMV. I took 1000 mg (500 twice a day) for over a year and

it

worked just fine. No side effects and it brought my A1c down to 6.0. I

could see no reason to increase the dosage.

Annette

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July 14, 2001

The glucophage website, itself, says:

" Recommended Dosing Schedule

Adults ‹ In general, clinically significant responses are not seen at doses

below 1500 mg per day.

However, a lower recommended starting dose and gradually increased dosage is

advised to mini-mize

gastrointestinal symptoms.

The usual starting dose of GLUCOPHAGE (metformin hydrochloride tablets) is

500 mg twice a day

or 850 mg once a day, given with meals. Dosage increases should be made in

increments of

500 mg weekly or 850 mg every 2 weeks, up to a total of 2000 mg per day,

given in divided doses.

Patients can also be titrated from 500 mg twice a day to 850 mg twice a day

after 2 weeks. For

those patients requiring additional glycemic control, GLUCOPHAGE may be

given to a maximum

daily dose of 2550 mg per day. Doses above 2000 mg may be better tolerated

given three times a

day with meals.

The usual starting dose of GLUCOPHAGE XR (metformin hydrochloride

extended-release tablets)

is 500 mg once daily with the evening meal. Dosage increases should be made

in increments

of 500 mg weekly, up to a maximum of 2000 mg once daily with the evening

meal. If glycemic

control is not achieved on GLUCOPHAGE XR 2000 mg once daily, a trial of

GLUCOPHAGE XR

1000 mg twice daily should be considered. If higher doses of metformin are

required,

GLUCOPHAGE should be used at total daily doses up to 2550 mg administered in

divided daily

doses, as described above. (See CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY, Clinical Studies.)

Dispense in light-resistant containers. "

http://www.glucophagexr.com/resources/pi.jsp

So perhaps you might be having your success without the glucophage. I was on

500 2 x a day and went from 11.7 to 6.7- I told my dr I wanted to try

without it. She said fine and I went from 6.7 to 5.0 hbA1c. I always figured

I could go back on it if needed. I got the free bottle of Glucophage XR

after I went off it " just in case " . I know things change all the time and

maybe some day I will need it.

E

dx'd 2/16/01-T2

hbA1c 2/16/01= 11.7

hbA1c 4/20/01=6.7

hbA1c 6/26/01= 5.0

44 yrs old,diet & exercise

<<I am on 1000 mg also (500 twice a day) and it works fine for me too.

Anne>>

July 14, 2001

Hi -

I understand that that is what the glucophage web site says. However,

there are many patients like me who are taking smaller doses of

glucophage and getting good results. My last HbA1c was 4.8. 1000 mg.

is all I need to take. Some people are more sensitive to certain

medications than others. Diabetes is definitely not a one-size-fits-all

illness.

Anne

Re: middle road

The glucophage website, itself, says:

" Recommended Dosing Schedule

Adults < In general, clinically significant responses are not seen at

doses below 1500 mg per day. However, a lower recommended starting dose

and gradually increased dosage is advised to mini-mize gastrointestinal

symptoms. The usual starting dose of GLUCOPHAGE (metformin hydrochloride

tablets) is 500 mg twice a day or 850 mg once a day, given with meals.

Dosage increases should be made in increments of 500 mg weekly or 850 mg

every 2 weeks, up to a total of 2000 mg per day, given in divided doses.

Patients can also be titrated from 500 mg twice a day to 850 mg twice a

day after 2 weeks. For those patients requiring additional glycemic

control, GLUCOPHAGE may be given to a maximum daily dose of 2550 mg per

day. Doses above 2000 mg may be better tolerated given three times a day

with meals. The usual starting dose of GLUCOPHAGE XR (metformin

hydrochloride extended-release tablets) is 500 mg once daily with the

evening meal. Dosage increases should be made in increments of 500 mg

weekly, up to a maximum of 2000 mg once daily with the evening meal. If

glycemic control is not achieved on GLUCOPHAGE XR 2000 mg once daily, a

trial of GLUCOPHAGE XR 1000 mg twice daily should be considered. If

higher doses of metformin are required, GLUCOPHAGE should be used at

total daily doses up to 2550 mg administered in divided daily doses, as

described above. (See CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY, Clinical Studies.) Dispense

in light-resistant containers. "

http://www.glucophagexr.com/resources/pi.jsp

So perhaps you might be having your success without the glucophage. I

was on 500 2 x a day and went from 11.7 to 6.7- I told my dr I wanted to

try without it. She said fine and I went from 6.7 to 5.0 hbA1c. I always

figured I could go back on it if needed. I got the free bottle of

Glucophage XR after I went off it " just in case " . I know things change

all the time and maybe some day I will need it.

E

dx'd 2/16/01-T2

hbA1c 2/16/01= 11.7

hbA1c 4/20/01=6.7

hbA1c 6/26/01= 5.0

44 yrs old,diet & exercise

<<I am on 1000 mg also (500 twice a day) and it works fine for me too.

Anne>>

July 14, 2001

Hi Anne- I realize diabetes is different for all of us. My point was... that

you may be getting your good numbers without the glucophage being the cause

of those good numbers.

E

dx'd 2/16/01-T2

hbA1c 2/16/01= 11.7

hbA1c 4/20/01=6.7

hbA1c 6/26/01= 5.0

44 yrs old,diet & exercise

<<Hi -

I understand that that is what the glucophage web site says. However,

there are many patients like me who are taking smaller doses of

glucophage and getting good results. My last HbA1c was 4.8. 1000 mg.

is all I need to take. Some people are more sensitive to certain

medications than others. Diabetes is definitely not a one-size-fits-all

illness.

Anne>>

July 14, 2001

, that's the only problem I see with glucophage, how would anyone

ever quit using it, you seem to have done it on your own. It takes self

motivation to get control like that, to move from meds to dietary

control.

I think it is preferable to take control of your own life. For me

medication served as a transition time for me to lose weight and learn

and change. Sam

July 14, 2001

This first line says it all -

> " Recommended Dosing Schedule

> Adults < In general, clinically significant responses are not seen at

> doses below 1500 mg per day.

They don't say everyone needs more, just usually.

July 14, 2001

> I believe this is another YMMV issue; I started on glucophage with the

> intention of using 1500 mg/day. My numbers normalized after about 3 weeks;

> the Dr reduced me to 1000 mg/day. After 6 months, I started to drop below

> 70 2 hours postprandially (Dr was surprised!) so I went off orals. Since

> then, I've been fine. Hba1cs have been between 4.9 - 5.4 (normal <6).

My doctor never mentioned the possibility of increasing the dosage. After a

year of taking it, I found this group and reduced my carbs and I dropped it

completely. Last A1c was 5.2.

Annette

July 14, 2001

Hi Sam- because I had bowel problems with Glucophage I really wanted to try

going off it. Once off I still went down from 6.7 to 5.0 and so for me I

thought maybe I did not need it. I would rather " save " meds for later in

life (or never) and try my best with no meds for now.

i really did not change my diet at all. In fact I have added some bread!

E

dx'd 2/16/01-T2

hbA1c 2/16/01= 11.7

hbA1c 4/20/01=6.7

hbA1c 6/26/01= 5.0

44 yrs old,diet & exercise

<<, that's the only problem I see with glucophage, how would anyone

ever quit using it, you seem to have done it on your own. It takes self

motivation to get control like that, to move from meds to dietary

control.

I think it is preferable to take control of your own life. For me

medication served as a transition time for me to lose weight and learn

and change. Sam>>

July 14, 2001

I applaud people that go from medication to diet, so few do. I wonder

if people really need the meds they are on, I suggest a self analysis to

see. For me medication served as a bridge to weight loss and diet. I was

using a pancreas booster and a no fat diet, and was forced off meds by

repeated lows after losing weight. I have written to a large numbeer of

diabetics encouraging lower carb and lower meds, most were glad of the

change. " Why didn't my doctor tell me that " . Many were handed the ADA

diet sheet which still pushes carbs. I recall a few that didn't, good ol

doc so and so said... They ended up fat and on insulin, with multiple

ailments. I feel it's important to lnow that carbohydrates are assembled

from glucose molecules. We know that molecules are 3D structures and

cellulose is connected a different way that makes it very stiff and

straight, digestible only by ruminant animals. I have seen registeredd

dietiticians that still push carbs, it must be what they were taught,

they can't have had the diabetic experience. Sam ( I just used my meter)

July 15, 2001

My point exactly- I dropped the " glucophage " and still got down to a hbA1C

of 5.0. Good job Annette!

E

dx'd 2/16/01-T2

hbA1c 2/16/01= 11.7

hbA1c 4/20/01=6.7

hbA1c 6/26/01= 5.0

44 yrs old,diet & exercise

----------

To: <diabetes_int >

Subject: Re: middle road

Date: Sat, Jul 14, 2001, 6:26 PM

> I believe this is another YMMV issue; I started on glucophage with the

> intention of using 1500 mg/day. My numbers normalized after about 3 weeks;

> the Dr reduced me to 1000 mg/day. After 6 months, I started to drop below

> 70 2 hours postprandially (Dr was surprised!) so I went off orals. Since

> then, I've been fine. Hba1cs have been between 4.9 - 5.4 (normal <6).

My doctor never mentioned the possibility of increasing the dosage. After a

year of taking it, I found this group and reduced my carbs and I dropped it

completely. Last A1c was 5.2.

Annette

July 15, 2001

Hi Sam- me too----- I am of meds and my last hb test was 5.0

----------

To: diabetes_int

Subject: Re: middle road

Date: Sat, Jul 14, 2001, 9:49 PM