Guest guest Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060302/ap_on_re_us/caged_children > > The actions of this women concern me a great deal. I don't know > if any of the children here were autistic, but that does not > lessen the extent of the horror here. I think this woman is an isolated incidence. There may be others but that is not something that society accepts. She is apparently going to have her day in court, but that doesn't mean that the court or anyone else will accept her behavior. ( " Yes, your honour. I never let them go for a day without changing their newspapers and water. And I fed them twice a day, except on Sunday when they only got fed once because we were closed. " ) I don't think this is an autism issue because her treatment isn't accepted regardless of whether the kids were autistic. Despite the problems DYFS (NJ's child protective service agency) had, DYFS' problems are of a different nature from acceptance of caging of children. (Incidentally, these were cages. The photos from a few months back showed what looked like a veterinary boarding kennel.) - s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Oh, please don't misunderstand. I don't for one moment think that society *accepts *practices like this or that they are commonplace. I am wondering though, how common they may be through lack of oversight and understaffing. And this probably is more of a broader human rights than an autism issue. I still find it worthwhile to notice though and I'd be curious to know how widespread this sort of negligence is in the fostercare system. > > > > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060302/ap_on_re_us/caged_children > > > > The actions of this women concern me a great deal. I don't know > > if any of the children here were autistic, but that does not > > lessen the extent of the horror here. > > I think this woman is an isolated incidence. There may be > others but that is not something that society accepts. > > She is apparently going to have her day in court, but that > doesn't mean that the court or anyone else will accept her > behavior. > > ( " Yes, your honour. I never let them go for a day > without changing their newspapers and water. And I fed them > twice a day, except on Sunday when they only got fed once > because we were closed. " ) > > I don't think this is an autism issue because her treatment > isn't accepted regardless of whether the kids were autistic. > > > Despite the problems DYFS (NJ's child protective service agency) > had, DYFS' problems are of a different nature from acceptance > of caging of children. > > (Incidentally, these were cages. The photos from a few months > back showed what looked like a veterinary boarding kennel.) > > - s > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 > I don't think this is an autism issue because her treatment > isn't accepted regardless of whether the kids were autistic. But things like this (cages just being one particular form of " things like this " ): (a) Happen more often to disabled (including autistic) kids than non-disabled kids. ( Have a history of being *justified* by the kids being disabled. The main exceptional thing about this, is that people are objecting as strenuously as they are, and not continually bringing up the strain of raising all those defective kids. It's not really that exceptional that things like this are happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 In reference to b, I remember a case, it may have been in Britain, where a mother killed her autistic son, then recieved virtually no sentence (despite conviction) because of her story about the 'heavy burden' of having him around. It's truly disgusting stuff. > > > > > I don't think this is an autism issue because her treatment > > isn't accepted regardless of whether the kids were autistic. > > But things like this (cages just being one particular form of " things > like this " ): > > (a) Happen more often to disabled (including autistic) kids than > non-disabled kids. > > ( Have a history of being *justified* by the kids being disabled. > > The main exceptional thing about this, is that people are objecting as > strenuously as they are, and not continually bringing up the strain of > raising all those defective kids. It's not really that exceptional > that things like this are happening. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Where are those photos, all I can find are ones like in this article. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-01-17-bed-or-cage_x.htm I would be really curious to see. I used to teach special ed (such an interesting irony) and had to do physical holds, and I hated it, and I hated the time out room, and I hated the sad fate for these kids that only knew how to strike out. Not all of them fit that category, and they all had different " disabling conditions " some of which were no more than normal reactions to childhood abuse (IMHO). I hate " Group homes " too. Sorry if any of that offends, but I had two years of working for the Devereaux foundation, and it was not a good place. Thanks! jen > (Incidentally, these were cages. The photos from a few months > back showed what looked like a veterinary boarding kennel.) > > - s > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 > > > I don't think this is an autism issue because her treatment > > isn't accepted regardless of whether the kids were autistic. > > But things like this (cages just being one particular form of " things > like this " ): > > (a) Happen more often to disabled (including autistic) kids than > non-disabled kids. > > ( Have a history of being *justified* by the kids being disabled. > > The main exceptional thing about this, is that people are objecting as > strenuously as they are, and not continually bringing up the strain of > raising all those defective kids. It's not really that exceptional > that things like this are happening. > > > What upsets me is that so far, I see little concern from our elitist asperger groups about human rights. GRASP at least allowed me to put a FAQ about chelation on its website. But AANE?, forget it. Too cozy, I guess with their local neighbors, FAAAS, AutCom aka the Soma Fanclub and of course, JRC. Nice company. The ironic thing is that I get more concern about human rights from NTs like Sue Moreno and Pat Schissel than from my own peers who are leaders and silent usually. At least MAAP and the Long Island HFA-AS group allowed me to print a letter about the chelation death in Pennsylvania. I have aspergers not autism but I we aspies have to do a lot more caring about the entire autism company. We should use our abilities to advance all of us, not just sell books, do speechs and smile when the carpet is stained with the blood of our less fortunate autistic brethren. Jerry Newport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 > I had two years of working for the > Devereaux foundation, and it was not a good place. I know several people who lived at Devereaux, and yes, they said it was awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 > What upsets me is that so far, I see little concern from our > elitist asperger groups about human rights. GRASP at least allowed > me to put a FAQ about chelation on its website. But AANE?, forget > it. Too cozy, I guess with their local neighbors, FAAAS, AutCom aka > the Soma Fanclub and of course, JRC. Nice company. What bugs me about AutCom is that they're apparently against aversives... except when being done by someone who also legitimates the idea of " severely " autistic people being capable of typing. You'd think you'd be able to go " Okay, yes, this shows that people might be able to learn more than they're expected to, but look, learning this doesn't require abuse. " But people want simplistic statements I guess. > The ironic thing is that I get more concern about human rights > from NTs like Sue Moreno and Pat Schissel than from my own peers > who are leaders and silent usually. At least MAAP and the Long > Island HFA-AS group allowed me to print a letter about the > chelation death in Pennsylvania. I've so far found very little support *in general* for my views on these really basic issues, as far as people with much power or fame (I haven't found many NTs all that interested in them either -- and some NTs who have been interested in them, have ignored further human rights violations, such as that woman who is really anti-aversives but (like most BHS parents) doesn't like any criticism at all of the Boston Higashi School). Many people seem too concerned with not alienating anyone, to realize that maybe alienating people who actively or passively condone human rights violations isn't a bad thing, if the reason you're alienating them is that you're saying " Hey, you know what, this is just wrong all over, this shouldn't be happening. " > I have aspergers not autism but I we aspies have to do a lot > more caring about the entire autism company. We should use our > abilities to advance all of us, not just sell books, do speechs and > smile when the carpet is stained with the blood of our less > fortunate autistic brethren. I may not agree with your categories, but I do agree with the sentiment. Human rights for *all* autistic people, not just whatever group we happen to belong to, is important, and I haven't seen a lot of places to focus on that and really get things done. I'm good at writing, that's the main contribution I can make to such efforts, but I'd love to be able to team up with people who were good at *other* things, people with more energy than I have in general too would be nice, to do these things. In local advocacy around here for instance I ran into a problem last year because the two of us who continued to make a stand on something important had too many health problems to keep it up the way we wanted to be doing. That becomes a problem, in general, for a lot of people who fall into the 'at least somewhat more incapacitated' range (for lack of a better term) for whatever reason. We fight these things because it's our survival at stake and therefore we can't ignore them, but without allies who are more capable of doing a lot of things, we have no energy left. And there are people who have a lot less ability to do this stuff in a way that gets change done, than we do. But I've been frustrated because it seems like many of the people with more stable capabilities that a lot of us could *really use* added to our own kind of flimsy ones, are more interested in other things and often in status crap. To choose a totally non-autism example, we had a non-disabled woman in this apartment building who could have taken ten minutes of her time to sign something that was already written, that would have put a temporary stop to construction that was making a lot of the people with lung disease around here (who don't all have advocacy skills or even get-out-of-bed skills) really sick. She knew this, she knew what was at stake, and she decided that it was more important to buy spaghetti for a party. (Which is how and I ended up living outside for a few days and totally trashing our health in *other* ways in the process of all this, and a lot of other people who didn't or couldn't leave the building ended up very sick.) In the autism world, it's not spaghetti parties generally that have this sort of effect, but it's other things. There's " Well our issues are more important since we're more real people " (or something along those lines). (You know... I've always supported and learned about employment issues (and not just for 'aspies'), and other things that have little to do with me, in the autism world, but I know very few people who've gotten involved in or even learned much about the human rights issues that affect me or many other autistic people, on a regular basis.) There's " It'd be abuse/neglect/whatever if it happened to us, but for those hopeless cases, you know, everyone's different. " (I don't know what to say to these people except wake up.) There's all kinds of things. Usually not spaghetti but you get the point I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 wrote, in part: >> I'm good at writing, that's the main contribution I can make to such efforts, but I'd love to be able to team up with people who were good at *other* things, people with more energy than I have in general too would be nice, to do these things. In local advocacy around here for instance I ran into a problem last year because the two of us who continued to make a stand on something important had too many health problems to keep it up the way we wanted to be doing. That becomes a problem, in general, for a lot of people who fall into the 'at least somewhat more incapacitated' range (for lack of a better term) for whatever reason. We fight these things because it's our survival at stake and therefore we can't ignore them, but without allies who are more capable of doing a lot of things, we have no energy left. And there are people who have a lot less ability to do this stuff in a way that gets change done, than we do. << I regularly meet up with people who want to help, but don't know what to do. We need to get the groups together. When something needs attention in the New York City/Long Island area, please let me know. I'm sure there are others who are willing to help in other areas. And for important issues, some of us are willing to travel. Why not put out a general " call to action " when needed? Honestly, , there are more people who care about you than you will ever know. I think a request from you would bring action. Some of us have excess energy that needs to be channeled. - Debra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 > Honestly, , there are more people who care about you than you > will ever know. I think a request from you would bring action. > Some of us have excess energy that needs to be channeled. It's not really about whether people care about me specifically or not, though. (I mean what if I didn't exist, what then?) It's more about whether certain issues (that I happen to care about, and/or that happen to affect me personally, but also a lot of other people) even get covered or understood, in a broader sense, whether or not I'm there to mention them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 > It's not really about whether people care about me specifically > or not, though. ... It's more about whether certain issues.. > even get covered or understood, in a broader sense Hi - As I read it, there are 4 different issues: 1. Is the caged kids story relevant to us, more so than to NTs. ( " us " meaning all or some of us. We're all in this together.) 2. Do we ignore issues which affect *some* of us? (see above) 3. Does the story represent a public attitude that people with disabilities deserve less protection than " normal " people? 4. Will speaking out against the caged kids help people with disabilities? My take is that the caged kids story is only slightly more meaningful to autistics because: 1. the event was not limited to autistics or even kids with disabilities (or perhaps I'm wrong about the latter part). 2. the general public sees this as an outrage. The issues to be resolved are the effectiveness of child protective services, and whether this sort of thing can effectively be monitored. Adding our voices focuses on issues already addressed by mainstream concerns. I think this story on its own merits discredits the concept that people with disabilities deserve less protection. i.e., if autistics need to be caged, then why did she cage other kids? This affects autistics more than NTs because autistic kids are more likely to end up in foster homes. To some extent, that means that foster home abuses are of particular concern to autistics, but that defines this as a mainstream issue of particular concern to autistics. People regard people who are " different " as needing less protection. People who don't understand autism are more likely to accept that unusual treatment is warranted. THAT's where we can speak up and say that those concepts are wrong. The public already understands that storing kids in veterinary kennels is wrong. So if we do say something, we are practicing a bit of " mini-advocacy " (my terminology). We are taking an issue for which there is already a public consensus and applying our idea to it. Under " mini-advocacy " , the issue is child abuse, and our idea is that autistics should be protected from child abuse. - s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 That certainly does seem to be a concern. I am reminded of that old Niemoller quote: " *First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist; Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist; Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist; Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew; Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out. " * In order to secure many of the issues important for Asperger's autistics a broader community is necessary, and beyond that, there needs to be a common recognition of the inherent worth of all autistics, even if we believe distinctions can be made between different types of autistics(something that, in my opinion, should be an acceptable difference in opinion that should not lead to the animosity I've felt towards some of the people who hold that belief). We can promote tolerance, diversity and equal worth and neurological legitimacy for autistics in general, even if we recognize the different subsets that exist in our community. -Ari P.S: I'm unfamiliar with AutCom (Soma Fanclub?) or JRC, though I am familiar (and very disgusted by) with FAAAS and ASPar. Can someone clarify who those two are? Thanks. > > > What upsets me is that so far, I see little concern from our > elitist asperger groups about human rights. GRASP at least allowed > me to put a FAQ about chelation on its website. But AANE?, forget > it. Too cozy, I guess with their local neighbors, FAAAS, AutCom aka > the Soma Fanclub and of course, JRC. Nice company. > > The ironic thing is that I get more concern about human rights > from NTs like Sue Moreno and Pat Schissel than from my own peers who > are leaders and silent usually. At least MAAP and the Long Island > HFA-AS group allowed me to print a letter about the chelation death > in Pennsylvania. > > I have aspergers not autism but I we aspies have to do a lot > more caring about the entire autism company. We should use our > abilities to advance all of us, not just sell books, do speechs and > smile when the carpet is stained with the blood of our less > fortunate autistic brethren. > > Jerry Newport > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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