Re: Sometimes I think nobody hears me

[Guest guest]

I understand and yes, it is unfortunate what we do to feel emotionally

" comfortable " . I myself have lost 60 lbs over the past 3 years. What is nuts is

that I'll reach a certain point and then start to self sabotage. Why? Because

even though thin I feel far better physically, I enjoyed the emotional buffer

the weight offered me. Sometimes I feel too vunerable now that I'm thin.

My advice would be to address the emotional/chemical reasons why we need the

weight to feel safe. I'm sure that being raised by BPs we feel that we need all

the protection we can get. Still though, we should strive to be healthy in

body, mind, and heart. Do you work with a therapist now? That might be helpful.

Wilkinson wrote:

I think on some levels we sift through people and hook up with the ones who

are most familar even if it is in a bad way. When you are with someone who is

" normal " that is out of your depth of experience and oddly enough out of your

comfort zone!!???? It is odd beyond words, but I think that some of us get

something out of being hurt. It is as if we cannot accept genuine and

appropriate realtionships because they would deprive us of the " excuse " of

failure. Attracting the BPD gives some of us an out. It is twisted and

unfortunately too true. I think the reason I cannot let go of my weight is that

it fills a need, so that when I fail I have something to blame the failure on. I

didn't get the job because I was fat, I didn't do well on an exam because I was

fat, nobody likes me and I have no friends because I am fat. I have a lot of

work to do to undo this line of thinking because it is all BS. I didn't get the

job because I was competing with 400 other

applicants, I didn't do well on an exam because I couldn't remember the right

information in time, I don't have friends because I don't seek friends out.

I met someone tonight who had lost 100 lbs and she looked FABULOUS. Took her 3

years to take it off. By damn if she could do it, then so can I. I just don't

want to work at it for 3 years. Just another hang up, just another excuse. At

least I recognize it for what it is. Now I can work on it.

Be strong

Re: Sometimes I think nobody hears me

So what is the answer? I want to know too! why aren't " nice " people

drawn to me, or do i reject them?? I'm a nice person as far as I'm

concerned. Doesn't seem to make a difference though. I mean as far as

the boyfriend types are concerned ( I must admit I do have wonderful

friends)

-

> >

> > Your problem is not your problem. Your problem is that the people

> in

> > your life are violating you, and you had to 'not see' this

> behavior in

> > order to maintain a relationship with your mother, and you

> are 'not

> > seeing' it in the people in your life in order to maintain those

> > relationships too. To the problem at hand you need to explain to

> your

> > boyfriend not to do the behavior of bull-dozing you or it will be

> over

> > with. You are better off alone. The act he did during sex was a

> huge

> > violation, to say the least. What an idiot, sorry.

> >

> > With the friend in the car, you were a victim of sexual assault.

> You

> > could have pressed charges. This is a compulsion on his part and

> he is

> > doubtless doing it elsewhere, and thought he'd give it a shot

with

> > you. His compulsion is probably escalating and at some point it

> will

> > most likely get him in trouble with the law. In that instance

what

> you

> > did is 'blaming the victim'...it is relatively common for victims

> of

> > rape and sexual assault to blame themselves, when the situation

> was

> > out of their control from the beginning, as that is part of what

> gives

> > the rapist or perpetrator a rush in the first place, taking away

> > someone's control and violating their sexual boundaries. It makes

> him

> > a perpetrator, which is about HIM and trust me that has nothing

to

> do

> > with you. When he eventually has charges pressed against him and

> goes

> > to jail, they aren't going to ask you to serve his time. This is

> HIS

> > very serious and dangerous problem.

> >

> > Same with your mom, violation of your boundaries. Cat-declawing

is

> a

> > barbaric surgery. There are claw-covers you can get for them now

> that

> > eliminate the scratching. I am glad you stood your ground. In

that

> > relationship is the genesis of your problems, your reluctance to

> see

> > how she violates your wishes and boundaries, and when these

things

> > happen with a parent it gives us a 'blank spot' so that we don't

> see

> > the same characteristics in other people and we keep drawing

these

> > types of folks into our lives. What we need is the ability to

heed

> the

> > red flags, and talking about how you feel about it is the first

> step.

> >

>

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[Guest guest]

wow this is the story of my life:

" He said that I have control of how

much mental energy I give to inappropriate people. He said that, while

things like that happen to other people, I think about it too much. I

should

just walk away and put it out of my mind instead of feeling

victimized. "

He makes it sound so easy. Of course when you don't grow up with a

crazy bpd you can just shrugg if off as an encounter with a crazy

person. But when the people that are your main role models are crazy,

then it's harder to disregard the craziness. I am trying to learn. I

am realizing that my growth was stunted because they and their issues

demanded ALL of my mental energy, and then some, hence the depression,

because they were impossible to decipher. It's like their insanity and

projection blocked out the sun. I am getting better and better at just

shrugging it off and not personalizing it, but it takes time.

[Guest guest]

Vegdeanna

I think as long as you see him doing his best tho respect you then great, but if

he

continues to use this " ingrained part of his nature " line then what you have is

not an

apology but a warning/predictor of future behavior.

>

> Thank you to everyone for your responses. I love how when I'm feeling

> anxious or nervous about something, I can come to this board and get

> so much support and understanding. I did write my BF an email just

> after work, in which I overexplained ( :-) ) myself, citing the

> examples that I cited in my post here.

>

> I did a google search on boundaries, and used what I learned. I

> explained that his actions led to my feelings and told him if he

> pushes me I will say, " I've had enough. " I also said that if he

> continues I will have to cut the evening short.

>

> So he replied to my email:

>

> I'm sorry.

>

> I fully acknowledge my behavior. I guess I've always thought of it as

> cute,

> but maybe I need to re-evaluate. I know I take it too far some times. I

> think most people find it mildly annoying from time to time. Perhaps

> they

> are more annoyed than I admit to myself. I did not realize you find

> it much

> more than annoying. I will have to work on this. However, it is an

> ingrained part of my annoying self and will not be easy to fix. I

> don't say

> this to make excuses for myself. I am not asking you to accept something

> that bothers you this much. I am only asking for some patience and

> early/firm reminders when I lapse. I will lapse. But I will make an

> effort

> to improve over time. And I will stop when you point it out to me. I'm

> glad you said something now instead of waiting until it got unbearable.

> Thank you. Very mature. I'm impressed and jealous.

>

>

> Overall, my hope is that this problem (which is 99% pushing food on

> me) is just a bad habit that he can work on, and not some kind of

> indication of overall jerkiness. The guy really, really loves food.

> He wants me to enjoy what he's enjoying.

>

> Usually, he goes out of his way to make sure I am comfortable and that

> I have what I want. He doesn't like me to get up and get him a glass

> of water when he comes over. My light switch wasn't working so he

> went out and bought me one to install himself.

>

> So I guess only time will tell.

>

> Thank you all so much, again, for helping me with fleas and general

> learning-how-to-be-safe-and-care-for-myself-ness.

>

[Guest guest]

, Sarita et al.

I have noticed many times over the years " attracting " people that replay the

relationship

with my family as well as psychos like the ones at the bakery and drugstore.

Years ago a read a few novels by a Christian author, Peretti. He used a

very vivid

way to explain the dynamic of this attraction that I had been referring to for

years. He

literally used little psycho/spiritual beings that sat on the owners shoulder.

Like the little

devil and angel from cartoons. I would always say that it was if there was a

psycho/spiritual reflection of ourselves that sat on our shoulders that would

call out to the

other beings crying out... " I have a low self-esteem from a damaged home and

history of

abuse here! " followed by a responding call of " I have a potential abuser here!

Bring her

my way! "

Kinda sick but very accurate. Sometimes I felt like it was the only way that I

could explain

how two people that could NOT BE WORSE FOR EACH OTHER get together.

Carla

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " sarita162927 "

wrote:

>

> Hi Kirsten! Your example about waiting for a prescription hit home!

> Similar things happen to me -- I don't know how to respond when

> people are rude. For example, I was waiting at the bakery counter,

> patiently, and then a man came out from behind me and got the

> attention of the clerk and the clerk didn't seem to notice that I had

> been standing there waiting all that time! (yes, I sometimes think I

> am invisible . . . ) So, I said, quite firmly but not

> aggressively, 'it's my turn, I've been waiting here for a few minutes

> now' and he just started screaming at me. I froze in place and then

> ran out of the store, crying. The man actually followed me across

> the parking lot and to my car, still shouting at me. I was shaking

> with fear as I drove home (I never did get my bread, needless to

> say!) And I was upset about it for weeks. Even now, when I think

> about it, I get upset. My question is, do we really have such a sign

> on our foreheads as you asked? Or is it just that another person

> with a different upbringing would have been more aggressive thus

> nipping his aggression in the bud? Or is it perhaps that a 'normal'

> person would just have written the guy off as 'rude asshole' and not

> let it upset them, whereas we tend to always analyze everything from

> the perspective of 'what did I do wrong?'

>

>

> >

> > I havent read the responses to this yet but holy crap i could have

> written this ten times over! I so often ask if there is a big asshole

> sign on my forehead. Because we grew up in a house with no boundaries

> i think us ko's have a very hard time drawing them. My sister went

> the other way and has so many boundaries there is a cement wall

> surrounding her but i am very much like you. I have a million

> examples but just 2 days ago i was standing in the drug store

> prescription line when it happened... First let me say that my

> grandma has an open account there so when i pick up her prescriptions

> i get whatever else it is she needs and they just put it on her card

> on file. So i have about 6 things that i put on the counter and say

> her name for the drugs and this older man scolds me with " thats what

> the front counter is for idiot " and at that moment i absolutely

> froze. I instantly thought of NADA screaming back with as much venom

> as he spewed and knew i wasnt

> > going that route but then i thought, if i dont say anything i will

> feel like shit too. So i just said very calmly " i have prescriptions

> i need to pick up sir " which didnt help either. For the whole night i

> stewed on that wondering why he would say that. I know he wouldnt

> have said that to my hubby, or my sister...etc. its something in me

> that i put out that i desperately want to change as well.

> >

> >

> >

> > Sometimes I think nobody hears me

> >

> > About a year ago, my close friend of over 20 years exposed himself

> to

> > me while I was driving us back to his shop from the movies. He said

> > something like, " Hey, look, I have a tumor on my leg " and I looked

> > and there he was. This was a 15 minute drive, maybe, and I told him

> > " no " and " I'm not interested " and " put it away " about, oh, 50 times

> or

> > more.

> >

> > I remained very calm and did not look at him again, but he kept

> > insisting I look and would not listen to my repeated assertions of

> > disinterest. I thought of *yelling* at him, but I have a huge

> > aversion to yelling, due to being yelled at by both my parents many

> > times when it was not called for, just very out of proportion

> yelling.

> >

> > When we reached his shop I told him over and over to " get the fuck

> out

> > of my car " and he would not. Then he grabbed my breast and at this

> > point I pushed him off but was too afraid to hit him, as he seemed

> to

> > be in a " zone " where he just *had to* get what he wanted, and I

> feared

> > he would hurt me. He had never exposed himself to me before, and I

> > believe he has always had severe sexual problems/issues stemming

> from

> > being molested.

> >

> > He finally got out of my car and I never spoke to him again. He did

> > leave me a message an hour later saying he was " kind of a dick " , so

> he

> > got that he went overboard but I don't think he knew how bad it was.

> >

> > So it felt *familiar* and it took me some months to realize that the

> > first person who didn't hear me was my nada. Like when I had to go

> to

> > the bathroom and she wouldn't take me until I crapped my pants. Or

> > when my period was so painful and she wouldn't take me to the doctor

> > and I had endometriosis.

> >

> > Or the most bizarre one, when she wanted to declaw my cat when I was

> > 29 and living at home again for 6 weeks while I bought a house. No

> > amount of saying no would get through to her. She got this glazed,

> > happy look as she mumbled to herself over and over again " I'll do it

> > while you're on your trip, I'll pay for it, you'll never know it

> > happened. " In this case, I finally told her that if she did it, I

> > would never speak to her again. Of course, the next day I was

> > punished by her crying all day that I loved *a cat* more than I

> loved

> > my *own mother*.

> >

> > Both with the assault and this cat instance, I continually asked

> > myself, " WHY is this person not hearing me? What did I do wrong that

> > they could not understand? Am I saying no wrong? " I know now that I

> > should have *screamed* with this " friend " and even pulled over the

> > car, told him to get out or I would call 911.

> >

> > I fear crossing over into crazy screaming nada-land, and I also

> don't

> > think a person should *have to* yell to be heard.

> >

> > So......as usual, I wonder if *normal* people have this problem and

> I

> > don't know why I want to ask you all, because you know as little

> about

> > normal as I do.

> >

> > My new boyfriend, who is so considerate in so many ways, ways that

> are

> > surprising, has a problem with pushing me.

> >

> > Mainly it's with food, and I've told him a few times already that

> when

> > I say no the first time, I would like him to not ask me again. But

> he

> > keeps asking. One time he brought me to a vegetarian restaurant and

> I

> > ordered a salad. I know I had a lot more choices than normal there,

> > but I was *in the mood* for a salad. This really bothered him and I

> > did confess to him that I had eaten too much at lunch and needed to

> > eat something light now. He kept pushing that there were all these

> > other options and he wanted me to try this food and I began to feel

> > backed against a wall.

> >

> > Recently (sorry to be so direct here) it happened in bed. I climaxed

> > really soon. He felt like it was too soon and wanted me to really

> > enjoy myself again. I said I was fine and didn't want to. He tried

> > to stimulate me anyway. I said, " what are you doing? " and he said

> > " women are multi-orgasmic " and I said, " I don't want to " but he

> tried

> > some more.

> >

> > Now, there was a time when I would not take no for an answer with

> > people on occasion but I learned to stop doing it.

> >

> > My problem is, it seems like I have said many times like with the

> food

> > that I only wish to say no once. This is reasonable, right? I

> > shouldn't have to keep saying no. It's reaching a point where I feel

> > like I might blow up eventually, and I don't want to do that.

> >

> > It just feels like sometimes people don't listen to me and I don't

> > know HOW to say " stop doing this " without yelling, as when I say it

> > softly, people don't seem to listen.

> >

> > Has anyone else experienced this?

> >

> > -Deanna

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> ______________________________________________________________________

> ______________

> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

your boyfriend technically is right, but not terribly helpful.

what helps me get over stuff, even with my mom, is to take a deep

breath and say, " i only had to deal with (fill in the name) for a few

minutes...they have to deal with themselves for the REST OF THEIR LIVES. "

that makes me feel better.

bink

> > >

> > > I havent read the responses to this yet but holy crap i could have

> > written this ten times over! I so often ask if there is a big asshole

> > sign on my forehead. Because we grew up in a house with no boundaries

> > i think us ko's have a very hard time drawing them. My sister went

> > the other way and has so many boundaries there is a cement wall

> > surrounding her but i am very much like you. I have a million

> > examples but just 2 days ago i was standing in the drug store

> > prescription line when it happened... First let me say that my

> > grandma has an open account there so when i pick up her prescriptions

> > i get whatever else it is she needs and they just put it on her card

> > on file. So i have about 6 things that i put on the counter and say

> > her name for the drugs and this older man scolds me with " thats what

> > the front counter is for idiot " and at that moment i absolutely

> > froze. I instantly thought of NADA screaming back with as much venom

> > as he spewed and knew i wasnt

> > > going that route but then i thought, if i dont say anything i will

> > feel like shit too. So i just said very calmly " i have prescriptions

> > i need to pick up sir " which didnt help either. For the whole night i

> > stewed on that wondering why he would say that. I know he wouldnt

> > have said that to my hubby, or my sister...etc. its something in me

> > that i put out that i desperately want to change as well.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Sometimes I think nobody hears me

> > >

> > > About a year ago, my close friend of over 20 years exposed himself

> > to

> > > me while I was driving us back to his shop from the movies. He said

> > > something like, " Hey, look, I have a tumor on my leg " and I looked

> > > and there he was. This was a 15 minute drive, maybe, and I told him

> > > " no " and " I'm not interested " and " put it away " about, oh, 50 times

> > or

> > > more.

> > >

> > > I remained very calm and did not look at him again, but he kept

> > > insisting I look and would not listen to my repeated assertions of

> > > disinterest. I thought of *yelling* at him, but I have a huge

> > > aversion to yelling, due to being yelled at by both my parents many

> > > times when it was not called for, just very out of proportion

> > yelling.

> > >

> > > When we reached his shop I told him over and over to " get the fuck

> > out

> > > of my car " and he would not. Then he grabbed my breast and at this

> > > point I pushed him off but was too afraid to hit him, as he seemed

> > to

> > > be in a " zone " where he just *had to* get what he wanted, and I

> > feared

> > > he would hurt me. He had never exposed himself to me before, and I

> > > believe he has always had severe sexual problems/issues stemming

> > from

> > > being molested.

> > >

> > > He finally got out of my car and I never spoke to him again. He did

> > > leave me a message an hour later saying he was " kind of a dick " , so

> > he

> > > got that he went overboard but I don't think he knew how bad it was.

> > >

> > > So it felt *familiar* and it took me some months to realize that the

> > > first person who didn't hear me was my nada. Like when I had to go

> > to

> > > the bathroom and she wouldn't take me until I crapped my pants. Or

> > > when my period was so painful and she wouldn't take me to the doctor

> > > and I had endometriosis.

> > >

> > > Or the most bizarre one, when she wanted to declaw my cat when I was

> > > 29 and living at home again for 6 weeks while I bought a house. No

> > > amount of saying no would get through to her. She got this glazed,

> > > happy look as she mumbled to herself over and over again " I'll do it

> > > while you're on your trip, I'll pay for it, you'll never know it

> > > happened. " In this case, I finally told her that if she did it, I

> > > would never speak to her again. Of course, the next day I was

> > > punished by her crying all day that I loved *a cat* more than I

> > loved

> > > my *own mother*.

> > >

> > > Both with the assault and this cat instance, I continually asked

> > > myself, " WHY is this person not hearing me? What did I do wrong that

> > > they could not understand? Am I saying no wrong? " I know now that I

> > > should have *screamed* with this " friend " and even pulled over the

> > > car, told him to get out or I would call 911.

> > >

> > > I fear crossing over into crazy screaming nada-land, and I also

> > don't

> > > think a person should *have to* yell to be heard.

> > >

> > > So......as usual, I wonder if *normal* people have this problem and

> > I

> > > don't know why I want to ask you all, because you know as little

> > about

> > > normal as I do.

> > >

> > > My new boyfriend, who is so considerate in so many ways, ways that

> > are

> > > surprising, has a problem with pushing me.

> > >

> > > Mainly it's with food, and I've told him a few times already that

> > when

> > > I say no the first time, I would like him to not ask me again. But

> > he

> > > keeps asking. One time he brought me to a vegetarian restaurant and

> > I

> > > ordered a salad. I know I had a lot more choices than normal there,

> > > but I was *in the mood* for a salad. This really bothered him and I

> > > did confess to him that I had eaten too much at lunch and needed to

> > > eat something light now. He kept pushing that there were all these

> > > other options and he wanted me to try this food and I began to feel

> > > backed against a wall.

> > >

> > > Recently (sorry to be so direct here) it happened in bed. I climaxed

> > > really soon. He felt like it was too soon and wanted me to really

> > > enjoy myself again. I said I was fine and didn't want to. He tried

> > > to stimulate me anyway. I said, " what are you doing? " and he said

> > > " women are multi-orgasmic " and I said, " I don't want to " but he

> > tried

> > > some more.

> > >

> > > Now, there was a time when I would not take no for an answer with

> > > people on occasion but I learned to stop doing it.

> > >

> > > My problem is, it seems like I have said many times like with the

> > food

> > > that I only wish to say no once. This is reasonable, right? I

> > > shouldn't have to keep saying no. It's reaching a point where I feel

> > > like I might blow up eventually, and I don't want to do that.

> > >

> > > It just feels like sometimes people don't listen to me and I don't

> > > know HOW to say " stop doing this " without yelling, as when I say it

> > > softly, people don't seem to listen.

> > >

> > > Has anyone else experienced this?

> > >

> > > -Deanna

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > __________________________________________________________

> > ______________

> > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

> > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

We had lunch today and he was very careful not to do this. He did not

even ask me once if I had had enough or wanted more. He is learning.

>

> Vegdeanna

>

> I think as long as you see him doing his best tho respect you then

great, but if he

> continues to use this " ingrained part of his nature " line then what

you have is not an

> apology but a warning/predictor of future behavior.

>

[Guest guest]

Good!

-Kyla

> >

> > Vegdeanna

> >

> > I think as long as you see him doing his best tho respect you

then

> great, but if he

> > continues to use this " ingrained part of his nature " line then

what

> you have is not an

> > apology but a warning/predictor of future behavior.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think we are all influenced by that strain of thinking

around 'assertiveness' training which posits that the person to whom

we are asserting ourselves is mentally healthy and normal. As this

experience shows, it isn't always the case. I've made horrible

mistakes in friendships and on jobs where I asserted myself and had

someone do something incredibly vengeful to 'get me back'; prior to

that point I had no warning that they were twisted. I remember once

making a comment to a coworker that was not doing her share of work,

she and another coworker actually hid in the warehouse part of the

building for an entire evening once and everyone else had to pick up

her slack. Well, her friend, the other 'hider' went to our boss and

told her I'd said unbelievable things about her behind her back, in

language I wouldn't even use. I defended myself to my boss when she

confronted me and she called him, the liar, over and he lied like a

pro, talking over me and cutting me off, right to my face. I was

completely shocked because he seemed like such a normal guy, this is

someone I'd worked with for several months. I have underestimated

the vindictiveness capacity of people more than a few times. So even

though I think this 'assertiveness' thing is a useful tool, it has

to be stressed within the parameters that it is within a

relationship that you value, that you want to keep and that you know

the person is not mentally ill. Otherwise it is just shaming. Truth

is you never know who you are dealing with half the time anyway,

even with people you've known for years, so in some instances it

might be wiser to not react or respond and just let them go on their

miserable way. That is what I would like to see, a book for people

that fully acknowledges the percentage of the population that is

sociopathic/bpd/npd, how to tell, how to handle them and how to

protect yourself. It galls me they teach algebra in school but don't

teach people to detect the folks that will inevitably cause them

some real pain in life.