Re: I'm curious about how people behaved in school?

March 13, 2008

I was the church-mouse type. Quiet, bookish, shy, too afraid to step

out to be rebellious or openly creative. I didn't start rebelling

until college when I was out on my own and them it was self-

destructive things. I never got into trouble per se but I was lucky,

I guess.

Mercy

>

> Do children of bpd's act out? I personally was quiet as a mouse and

> never stepped out of line at school. How common is this? I remember

> one time our bus driver remarked about how 'well-behaved' we 4 kids

> were and how we never caused trouble. All of us have a hard time

> standing up for ourselves and tend to be push-overs. We have a hard

> time with self-confidence, and think way too highly of just about

> every other person on the face of the earth, and think way too

little

> of ourselves; i.e. I've noticed a common thread with my siblings to

> behave as if we think just about everyone else is better than us.

>

> In substance abuse recovery I have met alot of people who acted out

as

> children. I wonder if there is a tendency or pattern with KO's? I

was

> very religious growing up and never even thought about 'coloring

> outside the lines' when it came to rebelling and bunking authority,

at

> least until my late teens, when I swung drastically in the other

> direction.

>

March 13, 2008

I hope you don't mind that this is coming from the spouse of a ko and

not the ko himself, but I can tell you what I've observed about him

and his three brothers (2 of whom were in my homeroom in high

school). They are " clean cut " , never got into any kind of trouble in

school or with the law, went to college, graduated in 4 years, are

gainfully employed, mow their lawns, pay their taxes and are fine

upstanding citizens.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

What I find interesting, is that my mil points these things out about

her sons quite frequently, as though it proves that she was a " good

mother " . She has on several occasions made derogatory comments about

people with tattoos. All three of my brothers have tattoos. I

point this out to her, she says she didn't mean anything by it.

Just today, she told me that she never had arguments with any of her

sons when they were growing up. I find that hard to believe, but

okie dokie then.

>

> Do children of bpd's act out? I personally was quiet as a mouse and

> never stepped out of line at school. How common is this? I remember

> one time our bus driver remarked about how 'well-behaved' we 4 kids

> were and how we never caused trouble. All of us have a hard time

> standing up for ourselves and tend to be push-overs. We have a hard

> time with self-confidence, and think way too highly of just about

> every other person on the face of the earth, and think way too

little

> of ourselves; i.e. I've noticed a common thread with my siblings to

> behave as if we think just about everyone else is better than us.

>

> In substance abuse recovery I have met alot of people who acted out

as

> children. I wonder if there is a tendency or pattern with KO's? I

was

> very religious growing up and never even thought about 'coloring

> outside the lines' when it came to rebelling and bunking authority,

at

> least until my late teens, when I swung drastically in the other

> direction.

>

March 13, 2008

I myself was extremely quiet and didn't say anything for most of my childhood.

During my teen years all my others sisters moved out of the house and I was the

new and only " target " of Nada. A psyche can only take so much, after a year of

that treatment I rebelled furiously. Nada responded by having me sent to foster

care. Ironically, what she intended as a cruel punishement actually saved my

life (in your face).

mayalisa728 wrote: Do children of bpd's act

out? I personally was quiet as a mouse and

never stepped out of line at school. How common is this? I remember

one time our bus driver remarked about how 'well-behaved' we 4 kids

were and how we never caused trouble. All of us have a hard time

standing up for ourselves and tend to be push-overs. We have a hard

time with self-confidence, and think way too highly of just about

every other person on the face of the earth, and think way too little

of ourselves; i.e. I've noticed a common thread with my siblings to

behave as if we think just about everyone else is better than us.

In substance abuse recovery I have met alot of people who acted out as

children. I wonder if there is a tendency or pattern with KO's? I was

very religious growing up and never even thought about 'coloring

outside the lines' when it came to rebelling and bunking authority, at

least until my late teens, when I swung drastically in the other

direction.

---------------------------------

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March 13, 2008

I was quiet and ugly and dirty and had no friends. I was terrified to make a

peep. When I was about 13, I remember watching my dad work a room. He claped

people on the back and said " How you doing " and everyone was happy to see

him. Then I noticed that boys liked girls who were outgoing and I changed. I

was always a perfect kid though, no drugs, alcohol and perfect grades. I got

married at 21 to a guy my parents wanted me to marry. I started rebelling at

age 28 when I divorced him. I was 28 before I ever had a clue that someone

might think I was attractive. I thought I was incredibly plain, almost

invisible.

I do remember my teachers talking to my parents about me, asking them about

something strange in my work (esp artwork) or telling them I needed more

friends. My parents would usually force some poor little girl to play with

me for an afternoon and then that would be the end of it.

>

> Do children of bpd's act out? I personally was quiet as a mouse and

> never stepped out of line at school. How common is this? I remember

> one time our bus driver remarked about how 'well-behaved' we 4 kids

> were and how we never caused trouble. All of us have a hard time

> standing up for ourselves and tend to be push-overs. We have a hard

> time with self-confidence, and think way too highly of just about

> every other person on the face of the earth, and think way too little

> of ourselves; i.e. I've noticed a common thread with my siblings to

> behave as if we think just about everyone else is better than us.

>

> In substance abuse recovery I have met alot of people who acted out as

> children. I wonder if there is a tendency or pattern with KO's? I was

> very religious growing up and never even thought about 'coloring

> outside the lines' when it came to rebelling and bunking authority, at

> least until my late teens, when I swung drastically in the other

> direction.

>

March 13, 2008

i don't know if i acted out or not...

i can already tell this is going to be a looooong post.

it's kind of a fine line i walked. when i was in 7th grade, i was

very quiet, very mindful of others, and i happen to have a tinge of

rosacea on my cheeks and nose (mostly it was a " problem " when i

laugh, and i laugh all the time, but honestly, i look at myself today

and say BIG DEAL!) so the kids sometimes called me " rudolph. "

jerks. (don't worry...i didn't take it too seriously.) anyway, i

was really really paranoid about leaving the house without makeup

because of this, but the makeup wasn't really working and it was a

pain in the ass to apply...and this was in houston and it's humid as

all get out, so it doesn't even MATTER if you put on makeup in the

morning because it'll all melt/slide off of your face by the end of

the day anyway. so i was standing in the restroom at school looking

at myself apply makeup to my 12 yr old face and i suddenly

thought...why am i doing this? i don't GET makeup and i don't GET

this whole girl stuff and there's no point in trying to force it.

anyway, who am i trying to empress? 13 year old boys? yick. so

that was the last day i wore makeup. i also didn't like to smile

because i thought i had small teeth and i thought i had a cackle, so

i consciously worked to not cover my mouth with my hand when i smiled

and kind of reformed my laugh into a hearty, verbal thigh slap: " HA

HA HA HA HA! " i felt pretty good when a friend complimented me on

my " awesome " laugh, saying it was the kind of laugh you could write

out. i just kept the thought in my mind that i didn't really have

much to lose by trying something new.

middle school was also the beginning of my new outlook on humanity.

i didn't have anything to prove! how liberating is that? plus, i

soon realized that living with mom was MUCH harder than dealing with

other kids and because i was reading every self help book she'd been

bringing into the house for the last five years (in an effort to

figure out what was wrong with me), i had a pretty good knack of

psychoanalyzing my peers which did a lot to take the sting out of any

criticisms leveled at me by members of my own cohort. i could be as

goofy and dorky and geek out about science fiction and dinosaurs if i

wanted to...and i DID! i could be an art nerd and write poetry if i

wanted to...and i DID. i could be president of the live music club

and play guitar and sing my own songs in front of people and not

suck...which i DID! i could do technical theatre AND computer

science, and i DID! i could be friends with the jocks and the

loadies and the cheerleaders and the tree people, so i was!!

(the downside is that i assumed since i was doing all this stuff that

it was no big deal and that if i could, anybody could...lame. i've

got a lot of talents, but i nearly had the drive to succeed squished

out of me completely. i'm just now recovering that facet of my

personality...)

anyway, school was MY TURF. mom never went up there, even after i

declared in 7th grade that since she tried to humiliate me for

getting a 72 on a 6 wks report card in spanish (and i'm getting no

academic support at home WHATSOEVER), she would never see my report

card again. i actually wanted to see if she would go up to my school

to get my report card, but really i knew she wouldn't. i had

teachers i glommed on to and they liked having me around. they cared

about me, which was nice, and they appreciated my off-colored humor.

my assistant principal loved me because i found and returned a $900

gucci watch i found before the reward was even posted (i actually

went to the office with the notice in my hand and told them, " um, i

turned this in 2 days ago. " ). the dirty watch owner stiffed me on

the reward, though...BASTARD! the principal knew who i was, but

that might have been because i had a shaved head and was fairly

visible...

not having support academically is bad for a kid, but this had to be

the second best option. i was easy going, yet sarcastically witty,

and people liked me. since i was already taking care of my sisters

and my mom, i think my teachers could recognize that i wasn't just a

kid and more or less treated me like an adult. i cussed like a

sailor and when teachers gave us busywork, i would sometimes refuse

to do it...but i never got in trouble for it, and i was always at the

school after classes were over...i mean, constantly. once i started

doing lighting design in technical theatre, there would be spanses of

time where i would spend 4 wks going to school at 730am and getting

home after 9pm. my mom initially tried to thwart this by saying that

it was way too much of an inconvenience to pick me up, but i got

tired of her ragging on me, so i started arranging for my own rides.

i thought this would help, but it only made her more pissed off at

me, so i was even happier to spend more time at school.

i didn't do drugs (the only time i smoked pot, my mom made me do it,

and that was at 16) because i was always around adults who did drugs

and personally, i like feeling in control, so there wasn't much of a

draw. my mom kept badgering me about having sex and that i was going

to get pregnant in high school (even though SHE was taking me to sex

shops and leaving her toys, books, and paraphrenalia around) so i was

dead set on proving her wrong. i didn't even have sex until i was

18, and that was with the guy who turned out to be my husband

(CUTENESS!). at school, since i hung out with so many groups, they

couldn't figure me out... the kids thought i had sex and did drugs,

but somehow in a cool, bad ass way...not in a slutty way...go

figure. i didn't tell them i did, but i didn't tell them i didn't.

when people would ask, i'd tell them to mind their own business.

it wasn't always peaches and cream. i had a boyfriend who was just

like my mom and i couldn't figure out why he treated me like crap

when he said he loved me. eventually i broke up with him (really, i

think he treated me increasingly poorly so he wouldn't have to do the

breaking up...this sounds weird, but it seems true and left

him " guiltless " because he could always point to that and say, " you

were the one who wanted to break up... " ). i had already developed

this " nothing left to lose " attitude, though, so i just kept on

trucking. during sophomore year, though, i was incredibly,

debilitatingly depressed. it hurt to move. sometimes i didn't even

get out of bed. i got a 50 one 6 wks in geography which my teacher

couldn't understand because i knew all the answers to everything

without even cracking the book. i just didn't do anything.

actually, i'm really surprised i wasn't considered truant for the

year because i missed lots of school that year (but participated in

after school events religiously). my mom didn't seem to care,

though... she let me skip whenever i wanted to. and my teachers

didn't seem to care either. in my entire high school career, i only

got one detention. ONE DETENTION! how could this be?!?!

anyway, junior year, my little sister started going to the same high

school i went to. she was only familiar with the bink that stayed in

bed and stared at the ceiling or got screamed at and hit and just

shut down. she was not prepared to see my personality at school. i

was talkative and outgoing and open and everything i wasn't at home.

before this, i had not even realized that i acted differently. isn't

that weird? i had NO CLUE that i was good at school. i felt like an

awful, selfish, unmotivated, untalented slacker. i only realized how

involved i was in school when i sat down to do my college

application...and i was dreading filling it out because i just " knew "

that i wouldn't get in because i wasn't involved enough in school.

so, did i act out? well, there was the time that i decided i didn't

like my dye job during lunch and cut all my hair off in the girl's

restroom... but other than that, i just loved being at school. even

the antagonistic forces didn't do much to hinder my love of school

because school was so much better than anywhere else i could have

been. i felt like a total miscreant, but that's not what others

thought of me. and i just saw a school aquaintance a few weeks ago

that i hadn't seen since high school and he said, " it's good to see

you, and you're smiling a lot more than you used to, " which was

pretty cool that he noticed. it's weird to think that people i

didn't even know were concerned about me.

anyway, i can't tell if i acted out at school or not. i acted

happier at school, but i didn't really cause much destruction or

chaos.

bink

>

> Do children of bpd's act out? I personally was quiet as a mouse and

> never stepped out of line at school. How common is this? I remember

> one time our bus driver remarked about how 'well-behaved' we 4 kids

> were and how we never caused trouble. All of us have a hard time

> standing up for ourselves and tend to be push-overs. We have a hard

> time with self-confidence, and think way too highly of just about

> every other person on the face of the earth, and think way too

little

> of ourselves; i.e. I've noticed a common thread with my siblings to

> behave as if we think just about everyone else is better than us.

>

> In substance abuse recovery I have met alot of people who acted out

as

> children. I wonder if there is a tendency or pattern with KO's? I

was

> very religious growing up and never even thought about 'coloring

> outside the lines' when it came to rebelling and bunking authority,

at

> least until my late teens, when I swung drastically in the other

> direction.

>

March 14, 2008

thanks everyone for replying.

this is another way in which I feel like I 'fit in' a bit. I don't

know why I did not act out, but I didn't. I only did when I got to

college and I pretty much destroyed my life with those choices for a

long time. Had I it to do over again I'd act out in high school

instead. Sometimes I wish I'd smacked the jellybeans out of some

people when I was a juvenile and could get away with it, instead I

kept everything inside. Growing up in my house was so exhausting,

nothing made sense and I just kept to myself and didn't fight my

parents; I'd seen my older sister do that and she went through so

much crap I just said 'forget it' and decided to just law low. I

realize now that I was pretty much acting throughout my childhood

and early life. I wasn't bullied that much, maybe only a few times.

I was left alone. My childhood at school wasn't exceptional. It can

make you feel a bit crazy when you are around addicts/alcoholics who

all seemed to have gone to juvie or foster care and started drugs at

like eleven, which seems to be a pattern in addiction recovery. I

appreciate hearing everyone's experiences...it makes me wonder about

the kids I knew growing up and what their home lives were like.

March 14, 2008

I appreciate your post, it was so interesting to read and I was

cheering for you in the times you talked about being inner-directed

instead of stifled by outside forces. I also think it's interesting

there was parental substance abuse going on. There is some 'space' to

be self-directed that children of addicted parents seem to get, that I

think that children of non-addicted bpd/npd's don't get. We are so

enmeshed with our parents sometimes it's almost like we are breathing

the same particles of air. I have always been so envious of the sense

of self I met in so many of the people I met in recovery, many of whom

had horrible addictions to narcotics/cocaine, etc. I could never

figure out...'how can I be such a mouse compared to these people but I

am 'only' an alcoholic...I never felt like I 'fit in', just one more

place I'd failed to make the grade. I think seeing this pattern is

helping me understand a bit better. I don't know...just putting that

out there, it seems like a lose/lose game sometimes and therefore

really no reason to compare the two. I just hear so much " I " coming

through in your post...that thing of choosing not to wear makeup at

that age, it just made me smile, all children should have that freedom

to make decisions like that.

March 14, 2008

i've noticed the thing about self, too, but i think it's because my

dad and aunts and uncles were really interested in my interests

(there were 13 of them, so they didn't get to have their individual

interests entertained, all went to the same school, all had the same

hair cut, all wore handmedowns, etc). plus my dad was always telling

me when i was little to look people in the eyes and that if people

thought i was subserviant, they would try to take advantage of me.

plus, i read about carey grant (because i LOVED alfred hitchcock

movies) and the way he saw people he wanted to be like, so he acted

like the people he wanted to be like, and eventually he internalized

the habits and became more like the person he wanted to be. that was

a pretty big one.

bink

>

> I appreciate your post, it was so interesting to read and I was

> cheering for you in the times you talked about being inner-directed

> instead of stifled by outside forces. I also think it's interesting

> there was parental substance abuse going on. There is some 'space'

to

> be self-directed that children of addicted parents seem to get,

that I

> think that children of non-addicted bpd/npd's don't get. We are so

> enmeshed with our parents sometimes it's almost like we are

breathing

> the same particles of air. I have always been so envious of the

sense

> of self I met in so many of the people I met in recovery, many of

whom

> had horrible addictions to narcotics/cocaine, etc. I could never

> figure out...'how can I be such a mouse compared to these people

but I

> am 'only' an alcoholic...I never felt like I 'fit in', just one

more

> place I'd failed to make the grade. I think seeing this pattern is

> helping me understand a bit better. I don't know...just putting

that

> out there, it seems like a lose/lose game sometimes and therefore

> really no reason to compare the two. I just hear so much " I "

coming

> through in your post...that thing of choosing not to wear makeup at

> that age, it just made me smile, all children should have that

freedom

> to make decisions like that.

>

March 14, 2008

oh yeah, about the " i " thing...my horrible 3rd grade teacher noticed

that too and said that if i have too many sentences with the word " i "

in it, people would think i was selfish and self-

interested...grrr... NOT what you tell a kid with a crazy mom who's

telling her the same thing at home... but she was lame and i didn't

really respect her anyway, so i didn't listen.

bink

>

> I appreciate your post, it was so interesting to read and I was

> cheering for you in the times you talked about being inner-directed

> instead of stifled by outside forces. I also think it's interesting

> there was parental substance abuse going on. There is some 'space'

to

> be self-directed that children of addicted parents seem to get,

that I

> think that children of non-addicted bpd/npd's don't get. We are so

> enmeshed with our parents sometimes it's almost like we are

breathing

> the same particles of air. I have always been so envious of the

sense

> of self I met in so many of the people I met in recovery, many of

whom

> had horrible addictions to narcotics/cocaine, etc. I could never

> figure out...'how can I be such a mouse compared to these people

but I

> am 'only' an alcoholic...I never felt like I 'fit in', just one

more

> place I'd failed to make the grade. I think seeing this pattern is

> helping me understand a bit better. I don't know...just putting

that

> out there, it seems like a lose/lose game sometimes and therefore

> really no reason to compare the two. I just hear so much " I "

coming

> through in your post...that thing of choosing not to wear makeup at

> that age, it just made me smile, all children should have that

freedom

> to make decisions like that.

>

March 14, 2008

I was so quiet in school. I felt like I was never allowed to be a kid

from about age 4 on. I never learned how to play. I sat under a tree

at recess and read a book. Kids would approach me to play tag, and I

wouldn't get it. I jumped rope and played cat's cradle, but that's all

I recall. The one time I was reprimanded was when I was caught in the

library reading when I was supposed to be outside. I was mortified.

I've asked nada about this upbringing recently, and she just brushed

it off as " you were such a serious kid " without recognizing it was she

who drilled into me that I had to be perfect. As many of you know,

this is a huge burden to bear through childhood (or adulthood, as the

case may be).

Middle school was more tolerable. I was placed in rapid excel class

for gifted/talented kids and finally found other kids who liked

school. I met my on-again, off-again boyfriend of 5 years. He had

undiagnosed depression and treated me like crap. But that's all I

knew, so I thought it was normal.

High school was a complete nightmare. Not only was fada the official

school photographer, nada worked in the high school and kept a close

eye on me. She also made me join the yearbook so I had to spend even

more time with her. She also rigged the superlatives so that me and my

abusive then-boyfriend were class couple. It was horrible. I never

drank or did drugs, but got involved in sex way too young because I

mistook it for love and because I felt like an adult -- I'd always

been forced to be one. The one time I ever skipped a class, I was

looking for 4-leaf clovers on the school lawn with my abusive

boyfriend. She caught me and sent me back to class. I never raised an

objection to my teachers, abusive boyfriend, or other all through high

school. I sat back and tolerated it. I also had a brief bought of

anorexia. I wish I could go back and reassure my 14-year old self that

everything would be better after high school. Also, I'd warn her never

to become editor-in-chief of the high school yearbook, newspaper, and

the bazillion other extra-curriculars I did while maintaining a 3.97

gpa (that I got yelled at about by nada because it wasn't a 4.0)!

> >

> > I appreciate your post, it was so interesting to read and I was

> > cheering for you in the times you talked about being inner-directed

> > instead of stifled by outside forces. I also think it's interesting

> > there was parental substance abuse going on. There is some 'space'

> to

> > be self-directed that children of addicted parents seem to get,

> that I

> > think that children of non-addicted bpd/npd's don't get. We are so

> > enmeshed with our parents sometimes it's almost like we are

> breathing

> > the same particles of air. I have always been so envious of the

> sense

> > of self I met in so many of the people I met in recovery, many of

> whom

> > had horrible addictions to narcotics/cocaine, etc. I could never

> > figure out...'how can I be such a mouse compared to these people

> but I

> > am 'only' an alcoholic...I never felt like I 'fit in', just one

> more

> > place I'd failed to make the grade. I think seeing this pattern is

> > helping me understand a bit better. I don't know...just putting

> that

> > out there, it seems like a lose/lose game sometimes and therefore

> > really no reason to compare the two. I just hear so much " I "

> coming

> > through in your post...that thing of choosing not to wear makeup at

> > that age, it just made me smile, all children should have that

> freedom

> > to make decisions like that.

> >

>

March 14, 2008

This is an interesting topic for me. I was scared to death to speak in

class; never raised my hand; and if I had to give an oral report, I'd almost

pass

out. However, I found myself always defending the kid that was being picked

on; would befriend them; have compassion for them and threaten anyone who dared

pick on them again. I got terrible grades all the way thru school (turns

out I'm dislexic and didn't find out until I was 30 years old!!!) I loved

school for the socialization; loved socializing and had alot of friends. Only

problem was, couldn't bring friends home because of the crazy house I lived in!!

Never knew what kind of mood nada was in. Basically, the rules were so strict

for me, I couldn't have friends over. Mostly on weekends I was forced to

re-study a history test that I failed, and was given the test over and over

again

by my parents until I passed it (I rarely passed). Every summer for 12

years, I was sent to summer school for reading comprehension. They didn't know

what dislexia was back then. So, I was labeled 'stupid', and never encouraged

to

do anything but maybe secretarial work, or fast food........

Today I have my own dog grooming business. I've had it for 23 years. I

pursued it the day I found out I was dislexic. Went to grooming school (with

absolutely no support from nada or fada).

Knowledge is power. Learning new stuff every day!!!!! Learning how to

become LC with nada and fada is the hardest thing I ever done.

Good luck to all of u,

LL

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March 14, 2008

I was EXTREMELY shy, & nerdy in elementary school. Each morning, I

silently rode the school bus with a big knot in my stomach.

Occasionally bullies targeted me--they knew I'd never defend myself.

Most teachers liked me because I was a well-behaved, straight A

student. When teachers rejected me I was emotionally crushed. (I was

always on the lookout for a parent substitute.) I trusted no one, but

each year managed to have exactly one close friend. Even my close

friend(s) often betrayed me. Elementary school was an endurance test.

Things got better in junior high & high school & way better in

college, but I was always mistrustful of people.