Re: What stage of adrenal fatigue is this?

[Guest guest]

>>What stage of adrenal fatigue is this? I dont' know how many stages there are

either.

Here are my results from a SALIVA TEST:

7-8am = 12 (13-24)

11-12 = 7 (5-10)

4-5pm = 8 (3-8)

11-midnight = 4 (1-4)

Cortisol burden: 31 (23-42)

DHEA = 4 (3-10)<<

I would say this is either just beginning or most likely between stage 3 and 4.

You could tell better by adding your symptoms to this result. Here is where you

can read about the stages of adrenal fatigue:

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%20Normal.html

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

,

If this is an ASI panel from Diagnos-Techs (which is also the test

you get from Canary Club), there will be a graph called " Cortisol-

DHEA Correlation " that shows what stage you are in. Take a look at

your report again and see if that graph is included in your report

results. In your case, I'm guessing it will show you as in

the " reference " zone. In other words, no adrenal fatigue.

The way this number is computed is you take your noon and 4PM

readings...add them together, and divide by 2. In other words,

compute the average of your two afternoon readings. In your case,

it is (7+8)/2 = 7.5 This corresponds to a pretty normal cortisol

level for those times of day. Then look at your DHEA. It is 4 and

also corresponds to a level within normal ranges. These 2 numbers

(7.5 for cortisol, and 4 for DHEA) are then plotted on

the " Cortisol - DHEA Correlation Chart " to show what stage of

fatigue you are in. I am still trying to find out WHY the

afternoon " averages " are used for this computation...I don't know

why...I just know that it is the way Diagnos-Techs figures out what

stage you are in. When I find out why they use those 2 readings,

I'll post an answer on this board.

There should also be some other numbers on your test as well...such

as insulin, SIga, etc.

What are they? Those will help tell the story as well. In people

with adrenal fatigue...particularly an advanced stage...those

numbers will almost always be depressed...i.e., below " normal "

ranges.

Look also at your test result that talks about Gliadin. This is a

test to see if you are gluten intolerant. It seems that a higher

percentage of those with adrenal fatigue will exhibit gluten

intolerance.

--Steve

>

> What stage of adrenal fatigue is this? I dont' know how many

stages there are either.

>

> Here are my results from a SALIVA TEST:

> 7-8am = 12 (13-24)

> 11-12 = 7 (5-10)

> 4-5pm = 8 (3-8)

> 11-midnight = 4 (1-4)

> Cortisol burden: 31 (23-42)

> DHEA = 4 (3-10)

>

> Thank you,

>

>

[Guest guest]

I had blood tests at the same time that confirmed

hypothyroidism with a TSH level of 5.25. I'm 38 and

have all of the classic symptoms except for isomnia -

I have no trouble sleeping or falling asleep even on

the armour. In fact, I don't even wake up refreshed

after 9-10 hours of sleep. Three months ago, I was

prescribed Armour at an initial dose of 30mg/day. From

day one, it has made me feel more fatigued and weaker;

I've also developed headache-like pressure in the head

and back of neck. Within those three months, I have

gained six pounds without changing my

eating/exercising patterns. Today, I still feel worse

with an increased dosage of 30 mg upon awakening at

7am and 30mg at 12noon, which isn't that much. I have

a normal basal temperature and my daily average

temperatures are up and down and I have had no

hyper-like symptoms. I thought maybe my adrenals are

weak so three weeks ago I began to suppliment with

licorice and adrenal grandulars, but still haven't

noticed a change in the way I feel.

Perhaps, I need to try something stronger? Last week I

had blood levels checked and now my TSH levels are

2.1, but why do I feel worse on this medication? It

doesn't make any sense and I don't know what to do it

this point. Do you have any suggestions, because I

just ordered Isocort which should be arriving in a

couple of days and I hope it doesn’t make me feel

worse. Considering this additional info., what do you

think?

--- Steve wrote:

> ,

>

> Actually, the shaded area is actually the " normal "

> (or reference)

> area. So if your DHEA/Cortisol " dot " is in that

> region, it

> indicates no adrenal fatigue. Stage 5 is below that

> reference area,

> and to the right of stage 7.

>

> You can read more about it here:

>

> http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%20Normal.html

>

> I am not an expert, and just about everything I have

> learned about

> this comes from the website above, and the two books

> " Chronic

> Fatigue Unmasked " and " Mastering Your Life " by Dr.

> G.E. Poesnecker

> of the Clymer Clinic in Pennsylvania.

>

> So, please take my " advice " as little more than a

> neophyte who is

> trying to learn how to interpret his own test

> results as well...let

> along anybody else's!

>

> But, your test results don't appear to be indicative

> of adrenal

> fatigue. In my case, my results were so

> outrageously obvious (stage

> 5, depressed insulin, depressed SIgA) that

> interpretation was a no-

> brainer. Your results seem to be a little more

> borderline, and you

> might want to seek some professional advice from the

> Clymer Clinic.

> They are very proficient in interpreting these ASI

> panels. My guess

> is that with low AM cortisol you probably feel real

> sluggish in the

> morning, and with borderline high cortisol at

> midnight, you probably

> have trouble sleeping and feel a bit " wired " at

> night.

>

> --Steve

>

>

> > > >

> > > > What stage of adrenal fatigue is this? I dont'

> > > know how many

> > > stages there are either.

> > > >

> > > > Here are my results from a SALIVA TEST:

> > > > 7-8am = 12 (13-24)

> > > > 11-12 = 7 (5-10)

> > > > 4-5pm = 8 (3-8)

> > > > 11-midnight = 4 (1-4)

> > > > Cortisol burden: 31 (23-42)

> > > > DHEA = 4 (3-10)

> > > >

> > > > Thank you,

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I can really relate to your situation as described below. The

pressure and headache I developed right away on T3 meds alone and

also on Armour. In my case I believe I have an issue with T3 which

is the opposite of most people, however it does increase the

seratonin in the brain which can act as Prozac or other

antidepressants. http://www.drmirkin.com/morehealth/G171.htm

I took Prozac years ago and remember very similar feelings in my

head to the T3 and Armour pressure in my head and fatigue. I know it

is supposed to increase energy, but I have not seen it.

Anyway, I have a very cool dr who although I have called him like 3

times in the last week still iw working with me is prescribing

straight T4 compounded at a local pharmacy and I will see what

happens.

I have stage 5 adrenals which is a huge factor also, as cortisol

levels and seratonin are linked also. I have been taking Isocort for

a while with good success until I started my Thyroid meds, and now I

do not feel any effect at all.

As always I would appreciate a review and suggestion from anyone,

take care.

Duane

> > > > >

> > > > > What stage of adrenal fatigue is this? I dont'

> > > > know how many

> > > > stages there are either.

> > > > >

> > > > > Here are my results from a SALIVA TEST:

> > > > > 7-8am = 12 (13-24)

> > > > > 11-12 = 7 (5-10)

> > > > > 4-5pm = 8 (3-8)

> > > > > 11-midnight = 4 (1-4)

> > > > > Cortisol burden: 31 (23-42)

> > > > > DHEA = 4 (3-10)

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

Are you on anything besides Armour? I just wanted to check because

I'm assuming your saliva tests for adrenal functioning were " clean "

i.e., you had not been on hydrocortisone or IsoCort for at least a

month prior to the test. If not, then your results are probably

skewed, which is one of the bummers about being on HC...you have to

go off of it to get meaningful adrenal test results...and that

(going off) can take at least 2 months...one month to get off, and

one month " clean " .

Many of the other gals in the forum can advise on thyroid symptoms,

etc. It is possible that your issues are not hypo-adrenia at

all...and are instead hypo-thyroid.

So, I'm going to back away from this thread, because we are now

officially outside my limited realm of experience.

--Steve

> > > > >

> > > > > What stage of adrenal fatigue is this? I dont'

> > > > know how many

> > > > stages there are either.

> > > > >

> > > > > Here are my results from a SALIVA TEST:

> > > > > 7-8am = 12 (13-24)

> > > > > 11-12 = 7 (5-10)

> > > > > 4-5pm = 8 (3-8)

> > > > > 11-midnight = 4 (1-4)

> > > > > Cortisol burden: 31 (23-42)

> > > > > DHEA = 4 (3-10)

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

I never touched anything prior to taking the saliva test...only licorice and

that was at least a month before it. Thanks for trying to help. I hope somebody

else has some useful advice for me.

Steve wrote: Are you on anything besides Armour? I

just wanted to check because

I'm assuming your saliva tests for adrenal functioning were " clean "

i.e., you had not been on hydrocortisone or IsoCort for at least a

month prior to the test. If not, then your results are probably

skewed, which is one of the bummers about being on HC...you have to

go off of it to get meaningful adrenal test results...and that

(going off) can take at least 2 months...one month to get off, and

one month " clean " .

Many of the other gals in the forum can advise on thyroid symptoms,

etc. It is possible that your issues are not hypo-adrenia at

all...and are instead hypo-thyroid.

So, I'm going to back away from this thread, because we are now

officially outside my limited realm of experience.

--Steve

> > > > >

> > > > > What stage of adrenal fatigue is this? I dont'

> > > > know how many

> > > > stages there are either.

> > > > >

> > > > > Here are my results from a SALIVA TEST:

> > > > > 7-8am = 12 (13-24)

> > > > > 11-12 = 7 (5-10)

> > > > > 4-5pm = 8 (3-8)

> > > > > 11-midnight = 4 (1-4)

> > > > > Cortisol burden: 31 (23-42)

> > > > > DHEA = 4 (3-10)

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

,

Do you have thyroid labs? In my opinion the fatigue I have is anyone's guess

- thyroid or adrenal, of which I suffer from both. Symptoms can be similar, so

in some cases having those labs, along with tracking your temp may be a key to

the mystery.

SAMMIE

wrote:

I never touched anything prior to taking the saliva test...only

licorice and that was at least a month before it. Thanks for trying to help. I

hope somebody else has some useful advice for me.

Steve wrote: Are you on anything besides Armour? I just wanted

to check because

I'm assuming your saliva tests for adrenal functioning were " clean "

i.e., you had not been on hydrocortisone or IsoCort for at least a

month prior to the test. If not, then your results are probably

skewed, which is one of the bummers about being on HC...you have to

go off of it to get meaningful adrenal test results...and that

(going off) can take at least 2 months...one month to get off, and

one month " clean " .

Many of the other gals in the forum can advise on thyroid symptoms,

etc. It is possible that your issues are not hypo-adrenia at

all...and are instead hypo-thyroid.

So, I'm going to back away from this thread, because we are now

officially outside my limited realm of experience.

--Steve

> > > > >

> > > > > What stage of adrenal fatigue is this? I dont'

> > > > know how many

> > > > stages there are either.

> > > > >

> > > > > Here are my results from a SALIVA TEST:

> > > > > 7-8am = 12 (13-24)

> > > > > 11-12 = 7 (5-10)

> > > > > 4-5pm = 8 (3-8)

> > > > > 11-midnight = 4 (1-4)

> > > > > Cortisol burden: 31 (23-42)

> > > > > DHEA = 4 (3-10)

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi again. I guess you didn't see my previous postings

of my labs, which I typed below. Thyroid antibodies

didn't show up in the blood test but did in the saliva

test. I stopped taking licorice and began taking

adrenal cortex as soon as I began armour. Both the

saliva and blood test were done at the same time but I

don’t have the test results for the t3 and t4 of the

blood test with me but the doctor said they weren’t at

their optimal levels.

SALIVA TEST:

TSH = >600 (Borderline high: 86-120)

L-Thyroxine = .25 (normal .17-.42)

Triiodo-thyronine = .22 (borderline low .21-.27)

(normal .28-1.10)

Thyroid Microsomal Ab, SigA = Positive

Regards,

--- Sammie Baker wrote:

> ,

>

> TSH isn't really adequate for confirming HypoT, but

> you probably are HypoT. This is a pitutary hormone,

> not thyroid but for whatever reason, this is what

> most

> Endo's test and it's useless most of the time. Make

> sure to get Free T3 and Free T4, which are the

> active

> thyroid hormones. In fact, being sleepy is a sign

> of

> HypoT. Insomnia might also be a symptom, but most

> people I know who are HypoT sleeping 9 + hours, or

> feel like they need to, whether or not they get that

> many hours of sleep.

>

> I can't believe you were decribed that dose of

> Armour

> without having your Free T4 and/or Free T3 tested.

> You probably need a higher dose, but increasing

> slooooowly is key.

>

> I think you are gaining weight from the licorice

> root,

> which causes fluid retention. Maybe the combo with

> glandulars is too much.

>

> You should also be getting tested for thyroid

> antibodies - TPO for Hashi's and TSI for Grave's to

> rule out the cause of your TSH levels.

>

> Maybe trying Isocort for your adrenals along with

> tweaking your Armour might be the answer. But in

> the

> meantime, I'd call your Endo and demand the tests I

> mentioned - Free T4, Free T3, TPO and TSI. Forgive

> us

> if we ask you to repeat info, it's hard to remember

> everyone's specific background.

>

> Feel better,

>

>

>

> SAMMIE

>

> ---

> wrote:

>

> > Sammie,

> >

> > I had blood tests at the same time that

> confirmed

> > > hypothyroidism with a TSH level of 5.25. I'm 38

> > and

> > > have all of the classic symptoms except for

> > isomnia -

> > > I have no trouble sleeping or falling asleep

> even

> > on

> > > the armour or prior to it. In fact, I don't even

> > wake up refreshed

> > > after 9-10 hours of sleep. Three months ago, I

> was

> > > prescribed Armour at an initial dose of

> 30mg/day.

> > From

> > > day one, it has made me feel more fatigued and

> > weaker;

> > > I've also developed headache-like pressure in

> the

> > head

> > > and back of neck. Within those three months, I

> > have

> > > gained six pounds without changing my

> > > eating/exercising patterns. Today, I still feel

> > worse

> > > with an increased dosage of 30 mg upon awakening

> > at

> > > 7am and 30mg at 12noon, which isn't that much. I

> > have

> > > a normal basal temperature and my daily average

> > > temperatures are up and down and I have had no

> > > hyper-like symptoms. I thought maybe my adrenals

> > are

> > > weak so three weeks ago I began to suppliment

> with

> > > licorice and adrenal grandulars, but still

> haven't

> > > noticed a change in the way I feel.

> >

> >

> >

> > Sammie Baker wrote:

> > ,

> >

> > Do you have thyroid labs? In my opinion the

> fatigue

> > I have is anyone's guess - thyroid or adrenal, of

> > which I suffer from both. Symptoms can be similar,

> > so in some cases having those labs, along with

> > tracking your temp may be a key to the mystery.

> >

> >

> > SAMMIE

> >

> >

> wrote:

> > I never touched anything prior to taking the

> saliva

> > test...only licorice and that was at least a month

> > before it. Thanks for trying to help. I hope

> > somebody else has some useful advice for me.

> >

> > Steve wrote: Are you on anything

> > besides Armour? I just wanted to check because

> > I'm assuming your saliva tests for adrenal

> > functioning were " clean "

> > i.e., you had not been on hydrocortisone or

> IsoCort

> > for at least a

> > month prior to the test. If not, then your results

> > are probably

> > skewed, which is one of the bummers about being on

> > HC...you have to

> > go off of it to get meaningful adrenal test

> > results...and that

> > (going off) can take at least 2 months...one month

> > to get off, and

> > one month " clean " .

> >

> > Many of the other gals in the forum can advise on

> > thyroid symptoms,

> > etc. It is possible that your issues are not

> > hypo-adrenia at

> > all...and are instead hypo-thyroid.

> >

> > So, I'm going to back away from this thread,

> because

> > we are now

> > officially outside my limited realm of experience.

> >

> > --Steve

> >

> >

> > >

> > > I had blood tests at the same time that

> confirmed

> > > hypothyroidism with a TSH level of 5.25. I'm 38

> > and

> > > have all of the classic symptoms except for

> > isomnia -

> > > I have no trouble sleeping or falling asleep

> even

> > on

> > > the armour. In fact, I don't even wake up

> > refreshed

> > > after 9-10 hours of sleep. Three months ago, I

> was

> > > prescribed Armour at an initial dose of

> 30mg/day.

> > From

> > > day one, it has made me feel more fatigued and

> > weaker;

> > > I've also developed headache-like pressure in

> the

> > head

> > > and back of neck. Within those three months, I

> > have

> > > gained six pounds without changing my

> > > eating/exercising patterns. Today, I still feel

> > worse

> > > with an increased dosage of 30 mg upon awakening

> > at

> > > 7am and 30mg at 12noon, which isn't that much. I

> > have

> > > a normal basal temperature and my daily average

> > > temperatures are up and down and I have had no

> > > hyper-like symptoms. I thought maybe my adrenals

> > are

> > > weak so three weeks ago I began to suppliment

> with

> > > licorice and adrenal grandulars, but still

> haven't

> > > noticed a change in the way I feel.

> > >

> > > Perhaps, I need to try something stronger? Last

> > week I

> > > had blood levels checked and now my TSH levels

> are

> > > 2.1, but why do I feel worse on this medication?

> > It

> > > doesn't make any sense and I don't know what to

> do

> > it

> > > this point. Do you have any suggestions, because

> I

> > > just ordered Isocort which should be arriving in

> a

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Interesting...I will look into this.

--- " C. Mannelli, Ed.D. "

wrote:

> You are also describing growth hormone deficiency

> symptoms. Particularly

> the inability feel refreshed even after 10 hours

> sleep.

>

> -- Re: Re: What stage of

> adrenal fatigue is this?

>

> I had blood tests at the same time that confirmed

> hypothyroidism with a TSH level of 5.25. I'm 38 and

> have all of the classic symptoms except for isomnia

> -

> I have no trouble sleeping or falling asleep even on

> the armour. In fact, I don't even wake up refreshed

> after 9-10 hours of sleep. Three months ago, I was

> prescribed Armour at an initial dose of 30mg/day.

> From

> day one, it has made me feel more fatigued and

> weaker;

> I've also developed headache-like pressure in the

> head

> and back of neck. Within those three months, I have

> gained six pounds without changing my

> eating/exercising patterns. Today, I still feel

> worse

> with an increased dosage of 30 mg upon awakening at

> 7am and 30mg at 12noon, which isn't that much. I

> have

> a normal basal temperature and my daily average

> temperatures are up and down and I have had no

> hyper-like symptoms. I thought maybe my adrenals are

> weak so three weeks ago I began to suppliment with

> licorice and adrenal grandulars, but still haven't

> noticed a change in the way I feel.

>

> Perhaps, I need to try something stronger? Last week

> I

> had blood levels checked and now my TSH levels are

> 2.1, but why do I feel worse on this medication? It

> doesn't make any sense and I don't know what to do

> it

> this point. Do you have any suggestions, because I

> just ordered Isocort which should be arriving in a

> couple of days and I hope it doesn’t make me feel

> worse. Considering this additional info., what do

> you

> think?

>

> --- Steve wrote:

>

> > ,

> >

> > Actually, the shaded area is actually the " normal "

> > (or reference)

> > area. So if your DHEA/Cortisol " dot " is in that

> > region, it

> > indicates no adrenal fatigue. Stage 5 is below

> that

> > reference area,

> > and to the right of stage 7.

> >

> > You can read more about it here:

> >

> > http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%20Normal.html

> >

> > I am not an expert, and just about everything I

> have

> > learned about

> > this comes from the website above, and the two

> books

> > " Chronic

> > Fatigue Unmasked " and " Mastering Your Life " by Dr.

> > G.E. Poesnecker

> > of the Clymer Clinic in Pennsylvania.

> >

> > So, please take my " advice " as little more than a

> > neophyte who is

> > trying to learn how to interpret his own test

> > results as well...let

> > along anybody else's!

> >

> > But, your test results don't appear to be

> indicative

> > of adrenal

> > fatigue. In my case, my results were so

> > outrageously obvious (stage

> > 5, depressed insulin, depressed SIgA) that

> > interpretation was a no-

> > brainer. Your results seem to be a little more

> > borderline, and you

> > might want to seek some professional advice from

> the

> > Clymer Clinic.

> > They are very proficient in interpreting these ASI

> > panels. My guess

> > is that with low AM cortisol you probably feel

> real

> > sluggish in the

> > morning, and with borderline high cortisol at

> > midnight, you probably

> > have trouble sleeping and feel a bit " wired " at

> > night.

> >

> > --Steve

> >

> >

> > >

> > > > ,

> > > >

> > > > If this is an ASI panel from Diagnos-Techs

> > (which is

> > > > also the test

> > > > you get from Canary Club), there will be a

> graph

> > > > called " Cortisol-

> > > > DHEA Correlation " that shows what stage you

> are

> > in.

> > > > Take a look at

> > > > your report again and see if that graph is

> > included

> > > > in your report

> > > > results. In your case, I'm guessing it will

> > show

> > > > you as in

> > > > the " reference " zone. In other words, no

> > adrenal

> > > > fatigue.

> > > >

> > > > The way this number is computed is you take

> your

> > > > noon and 4PM

> > > > readings...add them together, and divide by 2.

>

> > In

> > > > other words,

> > > > compute the average of your two afternoon

> > readings.

> > > > In your case,

> > > > it is (7+8)/2 = 7.5 This corresponds to a

> > pretty

> > > > normal cortisol

> > > > level for those times of day. Then look at

> your

> > > > DHEA. It is 4 and

> > > > also corresponds to a level within normal

> > ranges.

> > > > These 2 numbers

> > > > (7.5 for cortisol, and 4 for DHEA) are then

> > plotted

> > > > on

> > > > the " Cortisol - DHEA Correlation Chart " to

> show

> > what

> > > > stage of

> > > > fatigue you are in. I am still trying to find

> > out

> > > > WHY the

> > > > afternoon " averages " are used for this

> > > > computation...I don't know

> > > > why...I just know that it is the way

> > Diagnos-Techs

> > > > figures out what

> > > > stage you are in. When I find out why they use

> > > > those 2 readings,

> > > > I'll post an answer on this board.

> > > >

> > > > There should also be some other numbers on

> your

> > test

> > > > as well...such

> > > > as insulin, SIga, etc.

> > > >

> > > > What are they? Those will help tell the story

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

,

I did a little more searching on interpreting the results of your

saliva test for adrenal functioning, and found this little chart on

the Diagnos-Techs site:

http://www.diagnostechs.com/body_text/tests/asi/asimonograph_new/asi_

cortisolrythm.htm (scroll down to Table #6)

Your test results showed the following:

8AM: Depressed (D)

12N: Normal (N)

4PM: N

12M: N

Mean of Noon/afternoon: N

They address this exact pattern in the last row of Table 6 and call

this " marginal adrenal performance " . So, that pattern is

recognized, but I don't exactly know what you would do about it or

how you would treat it. The Table seems to offer a few

suggestions. It seems to me that if you have already been diagnosed

as HypoT, it would well be your thyroid that is dragging your

adrenal performance down mildly.

I realize you are getting bombarded with information from various

posts. Hope you are not feeling overwhelmed.

--Steve

> > > > >

> > > > > What stage of adrenal fatigue is this? I dont'

> > > > know how many

> > > > stages there are either.

> > > > >

> > > > > Here are my results from a SALIVA TEST:

> > > > > 7-8am = 12 (13-24)

> > > > > 11-12 = 7 (5-10)

> > > > > 4-5pm = 8 (3-8)

> > > > > 11-midnight = 4 (1-4)

> > > > > Cortisol burden: 31 (23-42)

> > > > > DHEA = 4 (3-10)

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

>>8AM: Depressed (D)

12N: Normal (N)

4PM: N

12M: N

Mean of Noon/afternoon: N<<

the problem wiht this is that N... Hwve you found labs ranges that we actiually

ARE normal in the full range? I have not. I feel the 8 am we need ot be at the

top of that range an the noon close to it as well, while the afternoon seems

liek an accualte range wher in the middle is great and the nightime 4 is NO WAY

normal... I believe that range should be 1-2.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Steve - the link is not working.

--- Steve wrote:

> ,

>

> I did a little more searching on interpreting the

> results of your

> saliva test for adrenal functioning, and found this

> little chart on

> the Diagnos-Techs site:

>

>

http://www.diagnostechs.com/body_text/tests/asi/asimonograph_new/asi_

> cortisolrythm.htm (scroll down to Table #6)

>

> Your test results showed the following:

>

> 8AM: Depressed (D)

> 12N: Normal (N)

> 4PM: N

> 12M: N

> Mean of Noon/afternoon: N

>

> They address this exact pattern in the last row of

> Table 6 and call

> this " marginal adrenal performance " . So, that

> pattern is

> recognized, but I don't exactly know what you would

> do about it or

> how you would treat it. The Table seems to offer a

> few

> suggestions. It seems to me that if you have

> already been diagnosed

> as HypoT, it would well be your thyroid that is

> dragging your

> adrenal performance down mildly.

>

> I realize you are getting bombarded with information

> from various

> posts. Hope you are not feeling overwhelmed.

>

> --Steve

>

>

> > > >

> > > > > ,

> > > > >

> > > > > If this is an ASI panel from Diagnos-Techs

> > > (which is

> > > > > also the test

> > > > > you get from Canary Club), there will be a

> graph

> > > > > called " Cortisol-

> > > > > DHEA Correlation " that shows what stage you

> are

> > > in.

> > > > > Take a look at

> > > > > your report again and see if that graph is

> > > included

> > > > > in your report

> > > > > results. In your case, I'm guessing it will

> > > show

> > > > > you as in

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

So the labs reference ranges are incorrect?

--- T wrote:

> >>8AM: Depressed (D)

> 12N: Normal (N)

> 4PM: N

> 12M: N

> Mean of Noon/afternoon: N<<

>

> the problem wiht this is that N... Hwve you found

> labs ranges that we actiually ARE normal in the full

> range? I have not. I feel the 8 am we need ot be at

> the top of that range an the noon close to it as

> well, while the afternoon seems liek an accualte

> range wher in the middle is great and the nightime 4

> is NO WAY normal... I believe that range should be

> 1-2.

>

> --

> Artistic

> Grooming- Hurricane WV

> My Ebay Jewelry Store

> http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>>So the labs reference ranges are incorrect?<<

I don't think it is so much they are incorrect as WAY too broad.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Yes...I noticed that too. You will have to copy the whole thing

into your browser...all the say through the .htm part. The line

wrap cut part of it off.

http://www.diagnostechs.com/body_text/tests/asi/asimonograph_new/asi_

cortisolrythm.htm

--Steve

> > > > >

> > > > > > ,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If this is an ASI panel from Diagnos-Techs

> > > > (which is

> > > > > > also the test

> > > > > > you get from Canary Club), there will be a

> > graph

> > > > > > called " Cortisol-

> > > > > > DHEA Correlation " that shows what stage you

> > are

> > > > in.

> > > > > > Take a look at

> > > > > > your report again and see if that graph is

> > > > included

> > > > > > in your report

> > > > > > results. In your case, I'm guessing it will

> > > > show

> > > > > > you as in

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

How do you know they are too broad? Do other labs have

more narrow ranges?

--- T wrote:

> >>So the labs reference ranges are incorrect?<<

>

> I don't think it is so much they are incorrect as

> WAY too broad.

>

> --

> Artistic

> Grooming- Hurricane WV

> My Ebay Jewelry Store

> http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

,

The nature of any ranges for any lab is that what is " normal " is

generally arrived at statistically by taking thousands of people's

readings and trying to figure out what a normal range should be.

And this can be tricky...because the people who are standing in line

for an adrenal test are usually those who suspect a problem...not

those who are well. So you can't just take labs from 1000 different

people, find the mean value, move a couple standard deviations away

on either side, and define that as " normal " .

All that said, I agree with Val. It is not that the ranges are

incorrect, it is that they are so broad that it can be tough to

interpret whether you are really OK or not, particularly when some

readings are right on the borderline.

For example, if " normal " for *you* is 22 mM of cortisol at 8AM, but

you measure only 13nM for your test, you are technically still in

the " normal range " yet only about 50% of what you usually function

at. And clearly, this would probably result in symptoms and

problems for you. So, there are nuances to interpreting these

labs. I think the problem most people have with doctors is that

they " manage by exception. " I.e., they don't really *read* your

labs...they merely scan them quickly to see if any readings are

outside the ranges. If all readings are " inside " , they conclude you

are fine. If a reading is " outside " , they may or may not conclude

there is a problem. So, they look only for exceptions to normal

ranges, and attempt to " manage " the patient in that manner.

Personally, I think there is a wealth of information in these tests

and if you can learn to read them correctly, and you know your own

body well enough, they can be quite valuable. That's one of the

reasons I have taken it upon myself to learn as much about

interpreting these labs as I can, rather than relying solely upon

a " professional " who doen't know my body or my symptoms. Basically,

I think that my ND and myself together can get more value from these

tests than either one of us alone. The old 1+1=3 type of thing.

Although your results aren't exactly conclusive, it does seem to be

cause for concern anytime a person's 8AM reading is depressed. It

doesn't necessarily equate to " adrenal fatigue " but it does warrant

some further investigation and probably a gentle form of treatment.

I wish I knew more, and could offer more advice, but I'm officially

out of answers at this point.

--steve

>

> > >>So the labs reference ranges are incorrect?<<

> >

> > I don't think it is so much they are incorrect as

> > WAY too broad.

> >

> > --

> > Artistic

> > Grooming- Hurricane WV

> > My Ebay Jewelry Store

> > http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

> >

> > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> >

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Okay, now I feel better that others can feel horrible

too and the lab results don't indicate that. Thanks!!

--- T wrote:

> >>How do you know they are too broad?<<

> ]

> By seeing where people FEEL good and seeing way too

> many " in the ranges " that are still sick.

>

> --

> Artistic

> Grooming- Hurricane WV

> My Ebay Jewelry Store

> http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

OK. Let's try this another way. Go to www.diagnostechs.com

Then follow this click-stream:

Tests & Panels --> Adrenal Stress Index:Conceptual Framework -->

Cortisol Rhythm

Then, scroll to the bottom of the page and find Table 6.

Hope this works for you.

--Steve

> > > > >

> > > > > > ,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Actually, the shaded area is actually the

> > > > " normal "

> > > > > > (or reference)

> > > > > > area. So if your DHEA/Cortisol " dot " is in

> > that

> > > > > > region, it

> > > > > > indicates no adrenal fatigue. Stage 5 is

> > below

> > > > that

> > > > > > reference area,

> > > > > > and to the right of stage 7.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You can read more about it here:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%20Normal.html

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am not an expert, and just about

> > everything I

> > > > have

> > > > > > learned about

> > > > > > this comes from the website above, and the

> > two

> > > > books

> > > > > > " Chronic

> > > > > > Fatigue Unmasked " and " Mastering Your Life "

> > by

> > > > Dr.

> > > > > > G.E. Poesnecker

> > > > > > of the Clymer Clinic in Pennsylvania.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So, please take my " advice " as little more

> > than

> > > > a

> > > > > > neophyte who is

> > > > > > trying to learn how to interpret his own

> > test

> > > > > > results as well...let

> > > > > > along anybody else's!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But, your test results don't appear to be

> > > > indicative

> > > > > > of adrenal

> > > > > > fatigue. In my case, my results were so

> > > > > > outrageously obvious (stage

> > > > > > 5, depressed insulin, depressed SIgA) that

> > > > > > interpretation was a no-

> > > > > > brainer. Your results seem to be a little

> > more

> > > > > > borderline, and you

> > > > > > might want to seek some professional advice

> > from

> > > > the

> > > > > > Clymer Clinic.

> > > > > > They are very proficient in interpreting

> > these

> > > > ASI

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah - sorry, I can't remember everyone's posts. It's helpful to include all

labs in a post so we can get the full picture and your symptoms dont seem to

match your labs. Which antibody test is that - for Hashi's?

Maybe you need to try the HC to feel better. You said you took the licorice

before the saliva test about a month before. Does that mean you stopped taking

licorice a month before the test?

SAMMIE

wrote:

Hi again. I guess you didn't see my previous postings

of my labs, which I typed below. Thyroid antibodies

didn't show up in the blood test but did in the saliva

test. I stopped taking licorice and began taking

adrenal cortex as soon as I began armour. Both the

saliva and blood test were done at the same time but I

don’t have the test results for the t3 and t4 of the

blood test with me but the doctor said they weren’t at

their optimal levels.

SALIVA TEST:

TSH = >600 (Borderline high: 86-120)

L-Thyroxine = .25 (normal .17-.42)

Triiodo-thyronine = .22 (borderline low .21-.27)

(normal .28-1.10)

Thyroid Microsomal Ab, SigA = Positive

Regards,

--- Sammie Baker wrote:

> ,

>

> TSH isn't really adequate for confirming HypoT, but

> you probably are HypoT. This is a pitutary hormone,

> not thyroid but for whatever reason, this is what

> most

> Endo's test and it's useless most of the time. Make

> sure to get Free T3 and Free T4, which are the

> active

> thyroid hormones. In fact, being sleepy is a sign

> of

> HypoT. Insomnia might also be a symptom, but most

> people I know who are HypoT sleeping 9 + hours, or

> feel like they need to, whether or not they get that

> many hours of sleep.

>

> I can't believe you were decribed that dose of

> Armour

> without having your Free T4 and/or Free T3 tested.

> You probably need a higher dose, but increasing

> slooooowly is key.

>

> I think you are gaining weight from the licorice

> root,

> which causes fluid retention. Maybe the combo with

> glandulars is too much.

>

> You should also be getting tested for thyroid

> antibodies - TPO for Hashi's and TSI for Grave's to

> rule out the cause of your TSH levels.

>

> Maybe trying Isocort for your adrenals along with

> tweaking your Armour might be the answer. But in

> the

> meantime, I'd call your Endo and demand the tests I

> mentioned - Free T4, Free T3, TPO and TSI. Forgive

> us

> if we ask you to repeat info, it's hard to remember

> everyone's specific background.

>

> Feel better,

>

>

>

> SAMMIE

>

> ---

> wrote:

>

> > Sammie,

> >

> > I had blood tests at the same time that

> confirmed

> > > hypothyroidism with a TSH level of 5.25. I'm 38

> > and

> > > have all of the classic symptoms except for

> > isomnia -

> > > I have no trouble sleeping or falling asleep

> even

> > on

> > > the armour or prior to it. In fact, I don't even

> > wake up refreshed

> > > after 9-10 hours of sleep. Three months ago, I

> was

> > > prescribed Armour at an initial dose of

> 30mg/day.

> > From

> > > day one, it has made me feel more fatigued and

> > weaker;

> > > I've also developed headache-like pressure in

> the

> > head

> > > and back of neck. Within those three months, I

> > have

> > > gained six pounds without changing my

> > > eating/exercising patterns. Today, I still feel

> > worse

> > > with an increased dosage of 30 mg upon awakening

> > at

> > > 7am and 30mg at 12noon, which isn't that much. I

> > have

> > > a normal basal temperature and my daily average

> > > temperatures are up and down and I have had no

> > > hyper-like symptoms. I thought maybe my adrenals

> > are

> > > weak so three weeks ago I began to suppliment

> with

> > > licorice and adrenal grandulars, but still

> haven't

> > > noticed a change in the way I feel.

> >

> >

> >

> > Sammie Baker wrote:

> > ,

> >

> > Do you have thyroid labs? In my opinion the

> fatigue

> > I have is anyone's guess - thyroid or adrenal, of

> > which I suffer from both. Symptoms can be similar,

> > so in some cases having those labs, along with

> > tracking your temp may be a key to the mystery.

> >

> >

> > SAMMIE

> >

> >

> wrote:

> > I never touched anything prior to taking the

> saliva

> > test...only licorice and that was at least a month

> > before it. Thanks for trying to help. I hope

> > somebody else has some useful advice for me.

> >

> > Steve wrote: Are you on anything

> > besides Armour? I just wanted to check because

> > I'm assuming your saliva tests for adrenal

> > functioning were " clean "

> > i.e., you had not been on hydrocortisone or

> IsoCort

> > for at least a

> > month prior to the test. If not, then your results

> > are probably

> > skewed, which is one of the bummers about being on

> > HC...you have to

> > go off of it to get meaningful adrenal test

> > results...and that

> > (going off) can take at least 2 months...one month

> > to get off, and

> > one month " clean " .

> >

> > Many of the other gals in the forum can advise on

> > thyroid symptoms,

> > etc. It is possible that your issues are not

> > hypo-adrenia at

> > all...and are instead hypo-thyroid.

> >

> > So, I'm going to back away from this thread,

> because

> > we are now

> > officially outside my limited realm of experience.

> >

> > --Steve

> >

> >

> > >

> > > I had blood tests at the same time that

> confirmed

> > > hypothyroidism with a TSH level of 5.25. I'm 38

> > and

> > > have all of the classic symptoms except for

> > isomnia -

> > > I have no trouble sleeping or falling asleep

> even

> > on

> > > the armour. In fact, I don't even wake up

> > refreshed

> > > after 9-10 hours of sleep. Three months ago, I

> was

> > > prescribed Armour at an initial dose of

> 30mg/day.

> > From

> > > day one, it has made me feel more fatigued and

> > weaker;

> > > I've also developed headache-like pressure in

> the

> > head

> > > and back of neck. Within those three months, I

> > have

> > > gained six pounds without changing my

> > > eating/exercising patterns. Today, I still feel

> > worse

> > > with an increased dosage of 30 mg upon awakening

> > at

> > > 7am and 30mg at 12noon, which isn't that much. I

> > have

> > > a normal basal temperature and my daily average

> > > temperatures are up and down and I have had no

> > > hyper-like symptoms. I thought maybe my adrenals

> > are

> > > weak so three weeks ago I began to suppliment

> with

> > > licorice and adrenal grandulars, but still

> haven't

> > > noticed a change in the way I feel.

> > >

> > > Perhaps, I need to try something stronger? Last

> > week I

> > > had blood levels checked and now my TSH levels

> are

> > > 2.1, but why do I feel worse on this medication?

> > It

> > > doesn't make any sense and I don't know what to

> do

> > it

> > > this point. Do you have any suggestions, because

> I

> > > just ordered Isocort which should be arriving in

> a

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks Steve...I agree with you about understanding

what we are dealing with instead of having doctors do

it for us. I have to tell you that I tried just about

all mild treatments for adrenal fatigue, so now I will

begin Isocort. I will let you know if it

helps...

--- Steve wrote:

> ,

>

> The nature of any ranges for any lab is that what is

> " normal " is

> generally arrived at statistically by taking

> thousands of people's

> readings and trying to figure out what a normal

> range should be.

> And this can be tricky...because the people who are

> standing in line

> for an adrenal test are usually those who suspect a

> problem...not

> those who are well. So you can't just take labs

> from 1000 different

> people, find the mean value, move a couple standard

> deviations away

> on either side, and define that as " normal " .

>

> All that said, I agree with Val. It is not that the

> ranges are

> incorrect, it is that they are so broad that it can

> be tough to

> interpret whether you are really OK or not,

> particularly when some

> readings are right on the borderline.

>

> For example, if " normal " for *you* is 22 mM of

> cortisol at 8AM, but

> you measure only 13nM for your test, you are

> technically still in

> the " normal range " yet only about 50% of what you

> usually function

> at. And clearly, this would probably result in

> symptoms and

> problems for you. So, there are nuances to

> interpreting these

> labs. I think the problem most people have with

> doctors is that

> they " manage by exception. " I.e., they don't really

> *read* your

> labs...they merely scan them quickly to see if any

> readings are

> outside the ranges. If all readings are " inside " ,

> they conclude you

> are fine. If a reading is " outside " , they may or

> may not conclude

> there is a problem. So, they look only for

> exceptions to normal

> ranges, and attempt to " manage " the patient in that

> manner.

> Personally, I think there is a wealth of information

> in these tests

> and if you can learn to read them correctly, and you

> know your own

> body well enough, they can be quite valuable.

> That's one of the

> reasons I have taken it upon myself to learn as much

> about

> interpreting these labs as I can, rather than

> relying solely upon

> a " professional " who doen't know my body or my

> symptoms. Basically,

> I think that my ND and myself together can get more

> value from these

> tests than either one of us alone. The old 1+1=3

> type of thing.

>

> Although your results aren't exactly conclusive, it

> does seem to be

> cause for concern anytime a person's 8AM reading is

> depressed. It

> doesn't necessarily equate to " adrenal fatigue " but

> it does warrant

> some further investigation and probably a gentle

> form of treatment.

>

> I wish I knew more, and could offer more advice, but

> I'm officially

> out of answers at this point.

>

> --steve

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > > >>So the labs reference ranges are incorrect?<<

> > >

> > > I don't think it is so much they are incorrect

> as

> > > WAY too broad.

> > >

> > > --

> > > Artistic

> > > Grooming- Hurricane WV

> > > My Ebay Jewelry Store

> > > http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

> > >

> > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> > >

> >

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes, test was for Hashi's. I stopped licorice all

together, a month before the test. Ioderal just

arrived, so I will start that but I'm not sure if it

will help but I hope since I have to stop Armour for a

month to get on Ioderal.

--- Sammie Baker wrote:

> Yeah - sorry, I can't remember everyone's posts.

> It's helpful to include all labs in a post so we can

> get the full picture and your symptoms dont seem to

> match your labs. Which antibody test is that - for

> Hashi's?

>

> Maybe you need to try the HC to feel better. You

> said you took the licorice before the saliva test

> about a month before. Does that mean you stopped

> taking licorice a month before the test?

>

>

>

> SAMMIE

>

> wrote:

> Hi again. I guess you didn't see my

> previous postings

> of my labs, which I typed below. Thyroid antibodies

> didn't show up in the blood test but did in the

> saliva

> test. I stopped taking licorice and began taking

> adrenal cortex as soon as I began armour. Both the

> saliva and blood test were done at the same time but

> I

> don’t have the test results for the t3 and t4 of the

> blood test with me but the doctor said they weren’t

> at

> their optimal levels.

>

> SALIVA TEST:

> TSH = >600 (Borderline high: 86-120)

> L-Thyroxine = .25 (normal .17-.42)

> Triiodo-thyronine = .22 (borderline low .21-.27)

> (normal .28-1.10)

> Thyroid Microsomal Ab, SigA = Positive

>

> Regards,

>

>

> --- Sammie Baker wrote:

>

> > ,

> >

> > TSH isn't really adequate for confirming HypoT,

> but

> > you probably are HypoT. This is a pitutary

> hormone,

> > not thyroid but for whatever reason, this is what

> > most

> > Endo's test and it's useless most of the time.

> Make

> > sure to get Free T3 and Free T4, which are the

> > active

> > thyroid hormones. In fact, being sleepy is a sign

> > of

> > HypoT. Insomnia might also be a symptom, but most

> > people I know who are HypoT sleeping 9 + hours, or

> > feel like they need to, whether or not they get

> that

> > many hours of sleep.

> >

> > I can't believe you were decribed that dose of

> > Armour

> > without having your Free T4 and/or Free T3 tested.

>

> > You probably need a higher dose, but increasing

> > slooooowly is key.

> >

> > I think you are gaining weight from the licorice

> > root,

> > which causes fluid retention. Maybe the combo with

> > glandulars is too much.

> >

> > You should also be getting tested for thyroid

> > antibodies - TPO for Hashi's and TSI for Grave's

> to

> > rule out the cause of your TSH levels.

> >

> > Maybe trying Isocort for your adrenals along with

> > tweaking your Armour might be the answer. But in

> > the

> > meantime, I'd call your Endo and demand the tests

> I

> > mentioned - Free T4, Free T3, TPO and TSI. Forgive

> > us

> > if we ask you to repeat info, it's hard to

> remember

> > everyone's specific background.

> >

> > Feel better,

> >

> >

> >

> > SAMMIE

> >

> > ---

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Sammie,

> > >

> > > I had blood tests at the same time that

> > confirmed

> > > > hypothyroidism with a TSH level of 5.25. I'm

> 38

> > > and

> > > > have all of the classic symptoms except for

> > > isomnia -

> > > > I have no trouble sleeping or falling asleep

> > even

> > > on

> > > > the armour or prior to it. In fact, I don't

> even

> > > wake up refreshed

> > > > after 9-10 hours of sleep. Three months ago, I

> > was

> > > > prescribed Armour at an initial dose of

> > 30mg/day.

> > > From

> > > > day one, it has made me feel more fatigued and

> > > weaker;

> > > > I've also developed headache-like pressure in

> > the

> > > head

> > > > and back of neck. Within those three months, I

> > > have

> > > > gained six pounds without changing my

> > > > eating/exercising patterns. Today, I still

> feel

> > > worse

> > > > with an increased dosage of 30 mg upon

> awakening

> > > at

> > > > 7am and 30mg at 12noon, which isn't that much.

> I

> > > have

> > > > a normal basal temperature and my daily

> average

> > > > temperatures are up and down and I have had no

> > > > hyper-like symptoms. I thought maybe my

> adrenals

> > > are

> > > > weak so three weeks ago I began to suppliment

> > with

> > > > licorice and adrenal grandulars, but still

> > haven't

> > > > noticed a change in the way I feel.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Sammie Baker wrote:

> > > ,

> > >

> > > Do you have thyroid labs? In my opinion the

> > fatigue

> > > I have is anyone's guess - thyroid or adrenal,

> of

> > > which I suffer from both. Symptoms can be

> similar,

> > > so in some cases having those labs, along with

> > > tracking your temp may be a key to the mystery.

> > >

> > >

> > > SAMMIE

> > >

> > >

> > wrote:

> > > I never touched anything prior to taking the

> > saliva

> > > test...only licorice and that was at least a

> month

> > > before it. Thanks for trying to help. I hope

> > > somebody else has some useful advice for me.

> > >

> > > Steve wrote: Are you on

> anything

> > > besides Armour? I just wanted to check because

> > > I'm assuming your saliva tests for adrenal

> > > functioning were " clean "

> > > i.e., you had not been on hydrocortisone or

> > IsoCort

> > > for at least a

> > > month prior to the test. If not, then your

> results

> > > are probably

> > > skewed, which is one of the bummers about being

> on

> > > HC...you have to

> > > go off of it to get meaningful adrenal test

> > > results...and that

> > > (going off) can take at least 2 months...one

> month

> > > to get off, and

> > > one month " clean " .

> > >

> > > Many of the other gals in the forum can advise

> on

> > > thyroid symptoms,

> > > etc. It is possible that your issues are not

> > > hypo-adrenia at

> > > all...and are instead hypo-thyroid.

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Yes, I took the iodine loading test and patch

dissappeared by the 8th hr. I heard that it's best to

treat adrenals first before thyroid.

--- Sammie Baker wrote:

> Did you take the iodine loading test? Who said you

> have to stop Armour for a month?

>

>

> SAMMIE

>

> wrote:

> Yes, test was for Hashi's. I stopped

> licorice all

> together, a month before the test. Ioderal just

> arrived, so I will start that but I'm not sure if it

> will help but I hope since I have to stop Armour for

> a

> month to get on Ioderal.

>

> --- Sammie Baker wrote:

>

> > Yeah - sorry, I can't remember everyone's posts.

> > It's helpful to include all labs in a post so we

> can

> > get the full picture and your symptoms dont seem

> to

> > match your labs. Which antibody test is that - for

> > Hashi's?

> >

> > Maybe you need to try the HC to feel better. You

> > said you took the licorice before the saliva test

> > about a month before. Does that mean you stopped

> > taking licorice a month before the test?

> >

> >

> >

> > SAMMIE

> >

> >

> wrote:

> > Hi again. I guess you didn't see my

> > previous postings

> > of my labs, which I typed below. Thyroid

> antibodies

> > didn't show up in the blood test but did in the

> > saliva

> > test. I stopped taking licorice and began taking

> > adrenal cortex as soon as I began armour. Both the

> > saliva and blood test were done at the same time

> but

> > I

> > don’t have the test results for the t3 and t4 of

> the

> > blood test with me but the doctor said they

> weren’t

> > at

> > their optimal levels.

> >

> > SALIVA TEST:

> > TSH = >600 (Borderline high: 86-120)

> > L-Thyroxine = .25 (normal .17-.42)

> > Triiodo-thyronine = .22 (borderline low .21-.27)

> > (normal .28-1.10)

> > Thyroid Microsomal Ab, SigA = Positive

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> >

> > --- Sammie Baker wrote:

> >

> > > ,

> > >

> > > TSH isn't really adequate for confirming HypoT,

> > but

> > > you probably are HypoT. This is a pitutary

> > hormone,

> > > not thyroid but for whatever reason, this is

> what

> > > most

> > > Endo's test and it's useless most of the time.

> > Make

> > > sure to get Free T3 and Free T4, which are the

> > > active

> > > thyroid hormones. In fact, being sleepy is a

> sign

> > > of

> > > HypoT. Insomnia might also be a symptom, but

> most

> > > people I know who are HypoT sleeping 9 + hours,

> or

> > > feel like they need to, whether or not they get

> > that

> > > many hours of sleep.

> > >

> > > I can't believe you were decribed that dose of

> > > Armour

> > > without having your Free T4 and/or Free T3

> tested.

> >

> > > You probably need a higher dose, but increasing

> > > slooooowly is key.

> > >

> > > I think you are gaining weight from the licorice

> > > root,

> > > which causes fluid retention. Maybe the combo

> with

> > > glandulars is too much.

> > >

> > > You should also be getting tested for thyroid

> > > antibodies - TPO for Hashi's and TSI for Grave's

> > to

> > > rule out the cause of your TSH levels.

> > >

> > > Maybe trying Isocort for your adrenals along

> with

> > > tweaking your Armour might be the answer. But in

> > > the

> > > meantime, I'd call your Endo and demand the

> tests

> > I

> > > mentioned - Free T4, Free T3, TPO and TSI.

> Forgive

> > > us

> > > if we ask you to repeat info, it's hard to

> > remember

> > > everyone's specific background.

> > >

> > > Feel better,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > SAMMIE

> > >

> > > ---

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > Sammie,

> > > >

> > > > I had blood tests at the same time that

> > > confirmed

> > > > > hypothyroidism with a TSH level of 5.25. I'm

> > 38

> > > > and

> > > > > have all of the classic symptoms except for

> > > > isomnia -

> > > > > I have no trouble sleeping or falling asleep

> > > even

> > > > on

> > > > > the armour or prior to it. In fact, I don't

> > even

> > > > wake up refreshed

> > > > > after 9-10 hours of sleep. Three months ago,

> I

> > > was

> > > > > prescribed Armour at an initial dose of

> > > 30mg/day.

> > > > From

> > > > > day one, it has made me feel more fatigued

> and

> > > > weaker;

> > > > > I've also developed headache-like pressure

> in

> > > the

> > > > head

> > > > > and back of neck. Within those three months,

> I

> > > > have

> > > > > gained six pounds without changing my

> > > > > eating/exercising patterns. Today, I still

> > feel

> > > > worse

> > > > > with an increased dosage of 30 mg upon

> > awakening

> > > > at

> > > > > 7am and 30mg at 12noon, which isn't that

> much.

> > I

> > > > have

> > > > > a normal basal temperature and my daily

> > average

> > > > > temperatures are up and down and I have had

> no

> > > > > hyper-like symptoms. I thought maybe my

> > adrenals

> > > > are

> > > > > weak so three weeks ago I began to

> suppliment

> > > with

> > > > > licorice and adrenal grandulars, but still

> > > haven't

> > > > > noticed a change in the way I feel.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sammie Baker wrote:

> > > > ,

> > > >

> > > > Do you have thyroid labs? In my opinion the

> > > fatigue

> > > > I have is anyone's guess - thyroid or adrenal,

> > of

> > > > which I suffer from both. Symptoms can be

> > similar,

> > > > so in some cases having those labs, along with

> > > > tracking your temp may be a key to the

> mystery.

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________