Re: pulse/Val estradiol

September 21, 2006

When I use Oestrogel now I end up with immediate hot flashes the next

three days and night sweas thta night. OS a non hormonal solution seems

like a greta thing to me, and this opend estrogen receptors, which is

how it works. So what estrogen you have works better for releiving these

symptoms. I do nto want high estrogen as it binds thyroid hormone sand I

certainyl don't want to mess wiht thta! LOL

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

September 21, 2006

Hollis:

My doc also told me that after menopause when estrone is mainly produced, a

woman can have an allergic reaction to it. Have you ever heard of this? My

doc used to be the director of an allergy clinic. I think he also said that

during PMS, estrone is elevated causing the allergic rx commonly thought to

be PMS.

I probably don't have all of this story correct but that is the gist of it.

-- re: pulse/Val estradiol

For some reason, this message never appeared. . .so i'm reposting it.

If everyone else who gets individual messages DID receive it, my apologies!

Hollis

<<If you are not low, I wonder why you would have the problems you are

mentioning? The receptors in the urinary tract and vaginal tract are very

sensitive to lack of hormones. In fact, if I get the problem you are

describing, which often comes with a urinary tract infection but not always,

I used a bit of estradiol gel and it works immediately.

How is your progesterone and testosterone levels?>>

-------Original Message-------

Val wrote: <<BUT I am not low in estrogen. NORMAL levels for post

meno, why screw that up?>>

Val --

I completely agree with . Even if your systemic levels of estradiol

really are adequate, it is VERY common for there to still be a local

deficiency in the vulvar and bladder tissues. There are tons of estradiol

receptors in those tissues; and if local levels are deficient and/or

estrogen

receptors are shut down, it can easily lead to vestibular, vaginal and

bladder tissue thinning, tearing, dryness, pain, and atrophy.

Topical bio-identical estradiol (usually in conjunction with topical

testosterone), works extremely well to keeps these tissues plump,

healthy, and moist. It also helps maintain the proper acidic vaginal

pH of about 4.5, which cuts down on the increase in bladder infections

that women often experience post-menopause. Some surgeons

actually use estradiol in preparation for vaginal/vestibular operations

since it provides such excellent tissue support, as well as being superb,

after the fact, for wound healing.

Of course, being unpatentable, bio-identicals are not exactly top

priority for the pharmaceutical companies, although they have actually

managed to produce a few bio-identical alternatives for vaginal dryness/

atrophy, such as Estrace. It will be interesting to see how the drug

that you're having a part in testing pans out. Maybe i'll be proved wrong,

but my feeling is that it's yet another case of creating a drug for big

profit

when bio-identical would do a much better job for this specific problem.

(I realize, though, after looking at some of the info on the clinical trial,

that there are other functions that they're investigating, not just vaginal

atrophy.)

There have been studies that show that there is very little systemic

absorption of estradiol when it's used on/in the vulva/vestibule. Of course,

used vaginally it WOULD raise systemic estradiol levels to some degree.

But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Some people argue that women

continue to produce estrogen after menopause and, therefore, don't need

any supplementation. But the estrogen they're producing is primarily estrone

which, without been balanced by the other two main estrogens --estradiol,

the " mother " estrogen and estriol -- HAS been linked with breast cancer.

And i have to add that " normal " lab values for post-menopausal estradiol

are pretty much along the same lines as what is usually considered " normal "

thyroid levels: far from adequate. My latest lab report lists the low end

of the

" normal " post-menopausal estradiol range as 5 pg/ml. This is simply

ludicrous.

For most women of ANY age, pre- OR post-menopausal, any estradiol level

under about 90 -100 will be inadequate for providing fully all of its

important

benefits to heart, brain, bones, skin, muscles, libido, etc. etc. So, a

person

can easily be told they're " normal, " and still be quite deficient.

Hollis

September 21, 2006

I heard that the bladder leaking is common with hysterectomy not just due to

estrogen, but due to nerves that are severed and do not grow back or only

partially grow back, that somehow attach to the bladder.

My mom had the surgery and was put on hormones immediately and for years,

however, in about a year, she developed the leaks. She has gotten better

with time.

-- Re: re: pulse/Val estradiol

>>How is your progesterone and testosterone levels?>><<

I will let you know when I get the CC labs back. It has been a year since I

have had these labs done and I was on hormones then, nothing now. But i ca

tell you from having a hyst at 27 years old, I KNOW when I am low E or P....

I either have horrid night sweats or leaky bladder, VERY leaky bladder. It

used to be so bad I though I needed the bladder tuck surgery as I feared it

had dropped causing this problem. In the last yer after 24 years on hormone

replacement, I do not need these anymore. I have NO symptoms of imbalances

in the sex hormones.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

September 22, 2006

In a message dated 9/22/2006 1:46:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

smann writes:

>

> What if Val gets the placebo?

>

> Another area that has lots of receptors for a hormone is the colon. I used

> to be chronically constipated followed by days of diarrhea. I noticed when

> I started using growth hormone, this stopped almost within a few days. I

> read up on GH and saw that there are many receptors for GH or in the lining

> of the lower intestine and colon. Never knew about these linings...........

> ...............and their hormone needs!

>

Whoops. . . you're right. i totally spaced out about that possibility that

Val might not get the drug being tested. . . .

Your experience of the effect of GH on the intestines is really interesting.

I'd never heard of this particular link before, but i have been learning more

lately about all of the crucial immunological functions that the gut performs

-- or doesn't perform properly, if it's not in good health. It's really

fascinating. Definitely a whole lot more's going on with the intestines than

being an

exit pipe, as we were all taught as kids . . .that's for sure!

Are you still taking GH? Have you seen any other changes?

Hollis

September 22, 2006

The thing here is, my system is NOT normal. There is NO way having a

hysterectomy at 27 is normal and I firmly believe it leaves many things

damaged. I relish the independence from sex hormones I have now, and it

will take some serious testing for me to mess with it. You have no idea

how 25 years of hot flashes, night sweats, and accompanying mood swings,

irritibilities, and headaches has been to deal with. These are ALL gone

now. THAT is why I am not ready to turn to hormonal remedies for some

dryness. I do not get vaginal infections, nor UTI's. In other words, I

did this clinical trial mostly for the free labs and not for the drug. I

may not even get the drug as this is a double blind placebo trial. I

will not know if I have the placebo or the real thing till it is over.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

September 22, 2006

In a message dated 9/22/2006 7:10:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

artisticgroomer@... writes:

>

> The thing here is, my system is NOT normal. There is NO way having a

> hysterectomy at 27 is normal and I firmly believe it leaves many things

> damaged. I relish the independence from sex hormones I have now, and it

> will take some serious testing for me to mess with it. You have no idea

> how 25 years of hot flashes, night sweats, and accompanying mood swings,

> irritibilities, and headaches has been to deal with. These are ALL gone

> now. THAT is why I am not ready to turn to hormonal remedies for some

> dryness. I do not get vaginal infections, nor UTI's. In other words, I

> did this clinical trial mostly for the free labs and not for the drug. I

> may not even get the drug as this is a double blind placebo trial. I

> will not know if I have the placebo or the real thing till it is over.

>

Val,

I guess the operative phrase here is: if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

After all the years of hormonal hell you went through, i can totally

understand how, now that you're now feeling so much better and

the vaginal symptoms aren't a big concern for you, you don't want

to rock the boat.

What labs are you getting out of this whole thing? Do they share

the results with you as the study unfolds? How long do you pop

whatever it is that you're popping? When does the study end?

Hollis

September 22, 2006

Prometrium is a synthetic progesterone.

Linn

On Sep 21, 2006, at 10:14 PM, C. Mannelli, Ed.D. wrote:

> I also experienced hot flashes when I used estrogen. So now I cut

> the dose

> way back and put it on a couple times the day I use it, or else

> just use a

> little bit. It is probably from a lot being absorbed at one time

> and then

> when it is used up, you are low.

>

> I was prescribed the Prometrium pills which is natural progesterone

> in pill

> form. It is released more steadily, supposedly. It can also be used

> vaginally and my doc prefers that. However, I was not impressed

> with the

> pills in relation to the expense.

>

> .

>

September 22, 2006

http://www.families-first.com/hotflash/faq/prometrium.htm

-- Re: pulse/Val estradiol

Prometrium is a synthetic progesterone.

Linn

On Sep 21, 2006, at 10:14 PM, C. Mannelli, Ed.D. wrote:

> I also experienced hot flashes when I used estrogen. So now I cut

> the dose

> way back and put it on a couple times the day I use it, or else

> just use a

> little bit. It is probably from a lot being absorbed at one time

> and then

> when it is used up, you are low.

>

> I was prescribed the Prometrium pills which is natural progesterone

> in pill

> form. It is released more steadily, supposedly. It can also be used

> vaginally and my doc prefers that. However, I was not impressed

> with the

> pills in relation to the expense.

>

> .

>

September 22, 2006

Hi Linn, maybe you're thinking of Progestin? That's

synthetic. Prometrium is natural.

--- Linn wrote:

> Prometrium is a synthetic progesterone.

>

> Linn

>

> On Sep 21, 2006, at 10:14 PM, C. Mannelli,

> Ed.D. wrote:

>

> > I also experienced hot flashes when I used

> estrogen. So now I cut

> > the dose

> > way back and put it on a couple times the day I

> use it, or else

> > just use a

> > little bit. It is probably from a lot being

> absorbed at one time

> > and then

> > when it is used up, you are low.

> >

> > I was prescribed the Prometrium pills which is

> natural progesterone

> > in pill

> > form. It is released more steadily, supposedly. It

> can also be used

> > vaginally and my doc prefers that. However, I was

> not impressed

> > with the

> > pills in relation to the expense.

__________________________________________________

September 22, 2006

I would be interested in seeing where you looked this up. I would like to

see the chemical make up you are referring to.

Here is the following source: http://www.obgyn.net/women/women

asp?page=/industry/articles/980107_solvay

PROMETRIUM Capsules is a natural micronized progesterone that is identical

in chemical structure to endogenous (naturally occurring) progesterone, and

thus should mimic the hormone that women produce naturally. It is currently

under review by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), and has received an

approvable letter from the agency for the treatment of secondary amenorrhea.

Unlike progestins (synthetic forms of progesterone), PROMETRIUM Capsules,

when approved, will be the only oral progesterone available in the U.S.

PROMETRIUM Capsules are intended to be taken orally, once-a-day with the

evening meal.

-- Re: pulse/Val estradiol

Nope Prometrium is not bio-identical, I looked up the chemical make-

up for someone on the adeno group who was looking for info on it.

Linn

> Hi Linn, maybe you're thinking of Progestin? That's

> synthetic. Prometrium is natural.

>

> --- Linn wrote:

>

> > Prometrium is a synthetic progesterone.

> >

> > Linn

>

September 22, 2006

>

> ,

>

> Technically, Linn is right: Bio-identical does not always equal

> " natural " -- as in naturally occuring in nature. Prometrium

> IS synthetic, made in a lab. But, while it's not " natural, " the

> end result IS bio-identical to the hormone that the body

> naturally produces. The semantics of differentiating between

> the terms " synthetic, " " natural, " and " bio-identical " can get

> very confusing! For example, Premarin, derived from mare's

>

Well stated, I agree!!

September 22, 2006

Yes Prometrium is bio-identical in it's chemical

structure to what we make in our own bodies.

Maybe this will help explain it a bit more:

https://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780679647324 & view=excerp\

t

Phytogenic (made from plants) hormones are created

from diosgenin, a large steroid molecule that exists

in plants such as the Mexican wild yam and soybeans.

This molecule, extracted in a laboratory, can be

compounded into each specific hormone — estrone,

estradiol, estriol, progesterone, testosterone, and

DHEA (dehydroepiandrosterone) — to become hormones

that are biochemically identical to the hormones our

bodies make.

Because these compounded phytogenic hormones are

identical to our own, hence the term bioidentical, or

human isomolecular, they are recognized by our

endocrine system and accepted alongside our own

hormones. Once our natural hormone levels have

declined, these hormones maintain the essential

hormonal balance we require to feel vital, to function

at our optimal levels, and to support our general

health and well-being.

So, that's the process of how it's done basically and

what the result is. The end product is exactly

bioidentical to the Progesterone we produce in our own

bodies from cholesterol, etc. Exactly the same.

That's why it does no good to buy over the counter

Progesterone cream that says it " contains yam " .

Look for one that says its Progesterone is *extracted

FROM yam*, instead, since our bodies do not have the

mechanism to extract and synthesize Progesterone from

the yam.

Here is the information from Solvay Labs, which makes

it:

http://www.solvaypharmaceuticals-us.com/products/prometriumproductinformation/0,\

,12416-2-0,00.htm

" PROMETRIUM® Capsules is structurally identical to the

progesterone naturally produced in a woman's body.

The progesterone in PROMETRIUM® Capsules is

synthesized from yams. "

So just because the company can patent it, doesn't

mean that it's not Bioidentical, for once. Their end

product IS bioidentical with what we produce in our

bodies, yet it does not begin that way. Rather it

begins from the plant Diosgenin molecule and it is

then changed around a bit until it is bioidentically

the same as our own Progesterone, and that (and the

process of extracting, synthesizing, etc.) is what is

patented.

A substance occuring naturally in nature all by itself

cannot be patented. That's why the pharmacy companies

don't bother with bioidentical hormones (except

Prometrium), and that's also why big pharmaceutical

company Wyeth is trying to get compounding pharmacies

who DO create bioidentical Progesterone and other

hormones, shut down, by filing a suit with the FDA

asking it to do just that.

As women discover the horrid health risks associated

with synthetics that these big pharmaceutical

companies make (and lie about) and the women turn more

and more to bio-id hormones, the big pharmaceutical

companies are losing money hand over fist.

--- Linn wrote:

> Nope Prometrium is not bio-identical, I looked up

> the chemical make-

> up for someone on the adeno group who was looking

> for info on it.

>

> Linn

>

> > Hi Linn, maybe you're thinking of Progestin?

> That's

> > synthetic. Prometrium is natural.

> >

> > --- Linn

> wrote:

> >

> > > Prometrium is a synthetic progesterone.

> > >

> > > Linn

__________________________________________________

September 22, 2006

Yes, I understand and agree with ya! I wonder if there is a difference

between the soy and yam synthesis.

The reason I ask is that my doc thinks I am sensitive to corn. He

recommends that I do not buy Vitamin C that is synthesized from corn. I

just figured Vit C came from citrus fruits but have learned that potatoes

and corn are also used.

I told the doc I did not see how there would be any corn left in the Vit C

but he insists that there are differences we cannot detect yet.

-- Re: pulse/Val estradiol

Yes Prometrium is bio-identical in it's chemical

structure to what we make in our own bodies.

Maybe this will help explain it a bit more:

https://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display

pperl?isbn=9780679647324 & view=excerpt

Phytogenic (made from plants) hormones are created

from diosgenin, a large steroid molecule that exists

in plants such as the Mexican wild yam and soybeans.

This molecule, extracted in a laboratory, can be

compounded into each specific hormone — estrone,

estradiol, estriol, progesterone, testosterone, and

DHEA (dehydroepiandrosterone) — to become hormones

that are biochemically identical to the hormones our

bodies make.

Because these compounded phytogenic hormones are

identical to our own, hence the term bioidentical, or

human isomolecular, they are recognized by our

endocrine system and accepted alongside our own

hormones. Once our natural hormone levels have

declined, these hormones maintain the essential

hormonal balance we require to feel vital, to function

at our optimal levels, and to support our general

health and well-being.

So, that's the process of how it's done basically and

what the result is. The end product is exactly

bioidentical to the Progesterone we produce in our own

bodies from cholesterol, etc. Exactly the same.

That's why it does no good to buy over the counter

Progesterone cream that says it " contains yam " .

Look for one that says its Progesterone is *extracted

FROM yam*, instead, since our bodies do not have the

mechanism to extract and synthesize Progesterone from

the yam.

Here is the information from Solvay Labs, which makes

it:

http://www.solvaypharmaceuticals-us

com/products/prometriumproductinformation/0,,12416-2-0,00.htm

" PROMETRIUM® Capsules is structurally identical to the

progesterone naturally produced in a woman's body.

The progesterone in PROMETRIUM® Capsules is

synthesized from yams. "

So just because the company can patent it, doesn't

mean that it's not Bioidentical, for once. Their end

product IS bioidentical with what we produce in our

bodies, yet it does not begin that way. Rather it

begins from the plant Diosgenin molecule and it is

then changed around a bit until it is bioidentically

the same as our own Progesterone, and that (and the

process of extracting, synthesizing, etc.) is what is

patented.

A substance occuring naturally in nature all by itself

cannot be patented. That's why the pharmacy companies

don't bother with bioidentical hormones (except

Prometrium), and that's also why big pharmaceutical

company Wyeth is trying to get compounding pharmacies

who DO create bioidentical Progesterone and other

hormones, shut down, by filing a suit with the FDA

asking it to do just that.

As women discover the horrid health risks associated

with synthetics that these big pharmaceutical

companies make (and lie about) and the women turn more

and more to bio-id hormones, the big pharmaceutical

companies are losing money hand over fist.

--- Linn wrote:

> Nope Prometrium is not bio-identical, I looked up

> the chemical make-

> up for someone on the adeno group who was looking

> for info on it.

>

> Linn

>

> > Hi Linn, maybe you're thinking of Progestin?

> That's

> > synthetic. Prometrium is natural.

> >

> > --- Linn

> wrote:

> >

> > > Prometrium is a synthetic progesterone.

> > >

> > > Linn

__________________________________________________

September 23, 2006

>>I heard that the bladder leaking is common with hysterectomy not just due to

estrogen, but due to nerves that are severed and do not grow back or only

partially grow back, that somehow attach to the bladder.<<

Not just nerves but muscles. Muscles that hold the bladder in place. A tipped or

dropped bladder is common as the muscles are not there to hold the bladder in

place, so it moves into an unnatural position. My grandmother had bladder

surgery about 20 years ago for this and it helped for about a year then the

incontinence came back. I believe mine was muscle related as my muscle tone

became much better about the same time my hormones FELT right. That was when I

lost the huge PG looking belly I had and went to 30MG HC. My body went through

SO many changes when I went fro m20 to 30MG HC and I just KNEW it was all for

the better.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

September 23, 2006

In a message dated 9/22/2006 12:32:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

smann writes:

> have been on GH for almost 5 years. At first I dropped lots of weight in

> my abdomen. I stopped with the constipation/diarhea almost immediately. I

> started growing more hair and started menses again. Later, when I had my

> mercury fillings removed at a huge expense, I was contaminated in the

> process, even tho on oxygen. My dad was ill for a while and moved in with

> me so my stress level was very high. Fights with his girlfriend who sued

> the estate, lasting 2 years (she lost) kept me in a constant state of stress

> not to mention her family's threats.

>

> So now, with the condition I am in, it is really hard to gauge what is going

> on. My endo person, who got me on GH, did not warn me that I might later

> need cortisol or thyroid. She tested me for hormones, but the lab said

> insufficient sample " (never got a refund), she later lost her license, and

> since, I have had iffy endocrine medical treatment.

>

> So at this point, after putting on probably 20 lbs in the past year, having

> surgery and all the stress, my GH does not seem to be making me lose weight.

> This could be mercury related. Recently after much chelation, I think my

> adrenals are working again cause I have forgotten doses of cortef with no

> symptoms. I take so little thyroid now and feel much better, so hopefully,

> the benefits of GH will be obvious to me again.

>

> I suspect that taking GH stresses the adrenals since my body was used to

> having such a low dose. With the mercury contamination, the wrong thyroid

> meds prescribed, all that nice hair, fell out!! I now have less than I did

> before GH.

>

> But I still never get colds and I used to have chronic sinus infections and

> colds, this is due to GH. I never have diarhea anymore. So I feel I need

> to be on it for the rest of my life, if I can afford it when insurance stops

> paying.

>

,

Thanks for all the information. I really know very little about GH

and it's interesting to hear first-hand from someone using it.

I like the potential hair growth and abdomen-slimming properties.

I hope your hair returns to its former glory. Hair loss is something

that has been a huge issue for me personally: i've gone from having

gorgeous, thick wavy hair that everyone would ooh and ahh over. . .

to hair that's quite thin and shows no signs of regrowth yet, despite

my 3 1/2 grains of porcine thyroid and modest adrenal support.

Hollis

September 26, 2006

Hollis:

I am using rogaine but it is not working. I seem to still be losing hair in

the front. My ND told me he thinks it is from the anesthesia from my

surgery this summer but this is follicle disappearance, no regrowth.

Sigh...................

-- Re: re: pulse/Val estradiol

In a message dated 9/22/2006 12:32:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

smann writes:

> have been on GH for almost 5 years. At first I dropped lots of weight in

> my abdomen. I stopped with the constipation/diarhea almost immediately. I

> started growing more hair and started menses again. Later, when I had my

> mercury fillings removed at a huge expense, I was contaminated in the

> process, even tho on oxygen. My dad was ill for a while and moved in with

> me so my stress level was very high. Fights with his girlfriend who sued

> the estate, lasting 2 years (she lost) kept me in a constant state of

stress

> not to mention her family's threats.

>

> So now, with the condition I am in, it is really hard to gauge what is

going

> on. My endo person, who got me on GH, did not warn me that I might later

> need cortisol or thyroid. She tested me for hormones, but the lab said

> insufficient sample " (never got a refund), she later lost her license, and

> since, I have had iffy endocrine medical treatment.

>

> So at this point, after putting on probably 20 lbs in the past year,

having

> surgery and all the stress, my GH does not seem to be making me lose

weight.

> This could be mercury related. Recently after much chelation, I think my

> adrenals are working again cause I have forgotten doses of cortef with no

> symptoms. I take so little thyroid now and feel much better, so hopefully,

> the benefits of GH will be obvious to me again.

>

> I suspect that taking GH stresses the adrenals since my body was used to

> having such a low dose. With the mercury contamination, the wrong thyroid

> meds prescribed, all that nice hair, fell out!! I now have less than I did

> before GH.

>

> But I still never get colds and I used to have chronic sinus infections

and

> colds, this is due to GH. I never have diarhea anymore. So I feel I need

> to be on it for the rest of my life, if I can afford it when insurance

stops