Re: Character assasination

[Guest guest]

i know exactly what you mean when you're " waiting for the attack. " i

don't trust niceness. my husband once commented that a large portion

of my friends are assholes. i thought about it and it was pretty

true. i think that if i have some expectation that they will be

deficient in some part of the relationship, it's easier to trust them

in the areas where they are strong AND at the same time i don't feel

uncomfortable about not trusting them in the areas where they really

don't need to be trusted. everyone within arm's length, but not TOO

close.

now, with nice people, i can't trust them because i can't accept that

they don't have an angle and then i feel like a complete jerk for not

trusting someone who seems like a nice person. grr...

the only thing that helps me is to keep an " optimistic " attitude

towards other people ( " remember bink, not everyone out there wants to

screw you over. if you have to be cynical to be optimistic, well,

you're just not that important for people to go out of their ways to

make your life miserable. it just doesn't make senes. " ) which is

INCREDIBLY difficult sometimes, even with the cynical part added on.

also, the majority of my friendships were made in middle school and

early high school, so i've had 10-15 years to watch these people and

accept that they are the people they present themselves to be.

bink

> > >

> > >

> > > I say as KO's we should be forgiven for our paranoia just a

little.

> > >

> > > Carla

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!

Search.

>

>

[Guest guest]

one more thing, this

" It has sabotaged my career,my mental health, and my

life. I want to heal but I don't know how. "

That is basically where I am right now. I don't have any answers. I

am not able to get a definite diagnosis of asperger's syndrome right

now, because I don't have the money to pay a therapist, so dont'

know how much of that is contributory to it as far as my being

isolated and feeling disconnected. I just know that that is where I

am. I was thinking about this because of the thread I posted about

my family's version vs. my version, etc. My entire childhood I

really believed that if I could just get into college, I would be

okay, and my life would be okay. It should have been. But I fell

apart in college, had some kind of nervous breakdown or something,

and became chemically dependent. The summer of my sophomore year,

the abuse from my father became unbearable and I moved out and began

working. College was traumatic for me because it made me see just

how lacking in social skills I was, how fearful and unsophisticated

I was. I felt like a complete failure. I never took a class for 15

years. I was a nervous wreck around that many people. I signed up

for a cake decorating class to enhance my skills as part of my job

in about 2002 or so (I was a baker) and made it through one night.

The class was filled to over-capacity, and it was full of the kind

of women I'd been pre-college, it seemed, quasi-religious with all

the 'fake sweet' mannerisms I used to have when I was living behind

that facade and projecting a false front to hide the real me (that

kind of fake-sweet stuff makes me run for the hills too, I will

never trust it mostly because that is how my sister is). I never

went back to that class...I never even got a refund. Then in 2005 I

enrolled in community college. It feels like a slow journey back to

sanity and hope for me. I've been pillar to post my whole life,

focusing on not really being anywhere, living anywhere or

maintaining any relationships long-term. I'd stay somewhere for a

few years then disappear from people's lives. I've have missed so

much because of burning bridges...I just disappear. I feel like I

don't have 'it' whatever it is other people have to maintain

relationships. I think I purposely seek out people who are

completely unable to relate emotionally because I know the

relationship won't last and is doomed from the start. If I am honest

I feel like there is a part of me that is so broken inside from the

abuse and from losing my dream of getting a college degree (right

now I am just trying to get into a medical program at community

college) that I will never be healed. I am not meaning to hi-jack

your post I just relate, even though my parent's behavior wasn't

nearly as 'dramatic' as that of your mom. I hope we can both find

healing. I am trying to find the strength to believe that my life

still matters even though I am almost 40, because part of me feels I

should just shut up and pack it in and realized I've wasted my life,

instead of trying to blame it on my parents. I guess your post is

bringing up a lot of stuff for me.

[Guest guest]

my dad is 54 and he now seems to be more willing to actually deal

with the stuff he went through with his father. he's FINALLY going

to community college.

it's never ever ever too late to go back to college and i am a HUGE

fan of community colleges. they have smaller classes, the teachers

usually work in the field they're teaching about, they offer such a

huge variety of different subjects, and they're freaking cheap.

there's no reason to feel bad about going to a community college

whatsoever.

bink

>

> one more thing, this

>

> " It has sabotaged my career,my mental health, and my

> life. I want to heal but I don't know how. "

>

> That is basically where I am right now. I don't have any answers. I

> am not able to get a definite diagnosis of asperger's syndrome

right

> now, because I don't have the money to pay a therapist, so dont'

> know how much of that is contributory to it as far as my being

> isolated and feeling disconnected. I just know that that is where I

> am. I was thinking about this because of the thread I posted about

> my family's version vs. my version, etc. My entire childhood I

> really believed that if I could just get into college, I would be

> okay, and my life would be okay. It should have been. But I fell

> apart in college, had some kind of nervous breakdown or something,

> and became chemically dependent. The summer of my sophomore year,

> the abuse from my father became unbearable and I moved out and

began

> working. College was traumatic for me because it made me see just

> how lacking in social skills I was, how fearful and unsophisticated

> I was. I felt like a complete failure. I never took a class for 15

> years. I was a nervous wreck around that many people. I signed up

> for a cake decorating class to enhance my skills as part of my job

> in about 2002 or so (I was a baker) and made it through one night.

> The class was filled to over-capacity, and it was full of the kind

> of women I'd been pre-college, it seemed, quasi-religious with all

> the 'fake sweet' mannerisms I used to have when I was living behind

> that facade and projecting a false front to hide the real me (that

> kind of fake-sweet stuff makes me run for the hills too, I will

> never trust it mostly because that is how my sister is). I never

> went back to that class...I never even got a refund. Then in 2005 I

> enrolled in community college. It feels like a slow journey back to

> sanity and hope for me. I've been pillar to post my whole life,

> focusing on not really being anywhere, living anywhere or

> maintaining any relationships long-term. I'd stay somewhere for a

> few years then disappear from people's lives. I've have missed so

> much because of burning bridges...I just disappear. I feel like I

> don't have 'it' whatever it is other people have to maintain

> relationships. I think I purposely seek out people who are

> completely unable to relate emotionally because I know the

> relationship won't last and is doomed from the start. If I am

honest

> I feel like there is a part of me that is so broken inside from the

> abuse and from losing my dream of getting a college degree (right

> now I am just trying to get into a medical program at community

> college) that I will never be healed. I am not meaning to hi-jack

> your post I just relate, even though my parent's behavior wasn't

> nearly as 'dramatic' as that of your mom. I hope we can both find

> healing. I am trying to find the strength to believe that my life

> still matters even though I am almost 40, because part of me feels

I

> should just shut up and pack it in and realized I've wasted my

life,

> instead of trying to blame it on my parents. I guess your post is

> bringing up a lot of stuff for me.

>

[Guest guest]

thank you so much, bink, for both of your posts. You brought tears to

my eyes. I really appreciate the positivity, it helps. Becoming

middle aged is weird; it's like you feel everything you were supposed

to do should have been done by now. I sometimes wish I'd gotten

pregant early in life, at least I'd have a child, and I would have

been a great mother. I have had many animals as pets and most of them

lived to old age, unless they had a medical condition that shortened

their lives. These are the only relationships that I have successfully

maintained. I have a rabbit now that I adopted from an animal shelter

in 2000 that is going on 8 years old now. Animals are so much easier

to deal with, for me, I feel like I will never, ever understand human

beings or be able to cope with their behavior. I am so happy for your

dad that he is furthering his education and trying to find peace. I

think that because our culture doesn't give much media attention to

people's growth in middle age and beyond, it just feels like a big

blank spot that 'doesn't count' somehow.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for sharing that. I don't enjoy hearing that you are in pain but it

does make me feel less " alien " when I know you can relate.

I know how bad the anxiety around others can ruin a life.Another thing, please

don't ever think that your life is over or wasted. It's ironic, life didn't come

with an instruction manual yet so many people consider themselves " losers " for

not getting it right the first time. Life is something we must experience in

order to learn from, so why do so many people crucify themselves over " mistakes "

when they didn't have the experience to know how to do better?

Throw the idea of the " ideal time line " out the window. Sure, if your

upbringing had been loving and nurturing, if circumstances had not thrown you a

curve ball, if all the people you ever met worked with instead of against you,

then I'd say that the " ideal time line " should apply. That hasn't been your

situation so I applaud every action you take to heal and lead a positive life.

mayalisa728 wrote:

one more thing, this

" It has sabotaged my career,my mental health, and my

life. I want to heal but I don't know how. "

That is basically where I am right now. I don't have any answers. I

am not able to get a definite diagnosis of asperger's syndrome right

now, because I don't have the money to pay a therapist, so didn't'

know how much of that is contributory to it as far as my being

isolated and feeling disconnected. I just know that that is where I

am. I was thinking about this because of the thread I posted about

my family's version vs. my version, etc. My entire childhood I

really believed that if I could just get into college, I would be

okay, and my life would be okay. It should have been. But I fell

apart in college, had some kind of nervous breakdown or something,

and became chemically dependent. The summer of my sophomore year,

the abuse from my father became unbearable and I moved out and began

working. College was traumatic for me because it made me see just

how lacking in social skills I was, how fearful and unsophisticated

I was. I felt like a complete failure. I never took a class for 15

years. I was a nervous wreck around that many people. I signed up

for a cake decorating class to enhance my skills as part of my job

in about 2002 or so (I was a baker) and made it through one night.

The class was filled to over-capacity, and it was full of the kind

of women I'd been pre-college, it seemed, quasi-religious with all

the 'fake sweet' mannerisms I used to have when I was living behind

that facade and projecting a false front to hide the real me (that

kind of fake-sweet stuff makes me run for the hills too, I will

never trust it mostly because that is how my sister is). I never

went back to that class...I never even got a refund. Then in 2005 I

enrolled in community college. It feels like a slow journey back to

sanity and hope for me. I've been pillar to post my whole life,

focusing on not really being anywhere, living anywhere or

maintaining any relationships long-term. I'd stay somewhere for a

few years then disappear from people's lives. I've have missed so

much because of burning bridges...I just disappear. I feel like I

don't have 'it' whatever it is other people have to maintain

relationships. I think I purposely seek out people who are

completely unable to relate emotionally because I know the

relationship won't last and is doomed from the start. If I am honest

I feel like there is a part of me that is so broken inside from the

abuse and from losing my dream of getting a college degree (right

now I am just trying to get into a medical program at community

college) that I will never be healed. I am not meaning to hi-jack

your post I just relate, even though my parent's behavior wasn't

nearly as 'dramatic' as that of your mom. I hope we can both find

healing. I am trying to find the strength to believe that my life

still matters even though I am almost 40, because part of me feels I

should just shut up and pack it in and realized I've wasted my life,

instead of trying to blame it on my parents. I guess your post is

bringing up a lot of stuff for me.

---------------------------------

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Guest guest]

I understand what yo are saying but my experience has been different. I was

subjected to a Sadistic Witch BP. She, with great pleasure, went out of her way

to cause suffering for my siblings and I. That is what makes my blood turn to

ice and my skin crawl. Up until recently I couldn't understand how anyone could

take PLEASURE from hurting others. Then in public she would turn into an

absolute saint. To this day I hear the priests saying what a " great church lady "

she is.

To make things worse, I seem to attract sadists into my life. Really, no pity

party here its just a fact. I feel sickened that anyone would dehumanize another

for a thrill. Additionally, I feel weak and hate myself because I've never

learned to fight back and protect myself. Why? Because I never felt capable of

protecting myself or ever felt that I had the right to. My Nada mentally

tortured young children nearly to the point of insanity. Hate the & 6979, hope

she gets every bit of the pain she caused thrown back onto her.

That leads me to mistrust everyone. I know that I am a quality and caring

person but I just can't stand to take the chance with anyone anymore. Don't

think my sanity can take it.

bink1227 wrote:

i know exactly what you mean when you're " waiting for the attack. " i

don't trust niceness. my husband once commented that a large portion

of my friends are assholes. i thought about it and it was pretty

true. i think that if i have some expectation that they will be

deficient in some part of the relationship, it's easier to trust them

in the areas where they are strong AND at the same time i don't feel

uncomfortable about not trusting them in the areas where they really

don't need to be trusted. everyone within arm's length, but not TOO

close.

now, with nice people, i can't trust them because i can't accept that

they don't have an angle and then i feel like a complete jerk for not

trusting someone who seems like a nice person. grr...

the only thing that helps me is to keep an " optimistic " attitude

towards other people ( " remember bink, not everyone out there wants to

screw you over. if you have to be cynical to be optimistic, well,

you're just not that important for people to go out of their ways to

make your life miserable. it just doesn't make senes. " ) which is

INCREDIBLY difficult sometimes, even with the cynical part added on.

also, the majority of my friendships were made in middle school and

early high school, so i've had 10-15 years to watch these people and

accept that they are the people they present themselves to be.

bink

> > >

> > >

> > > I say as KO's we should be forgiven for our paranoia just a

little.

> > >

> > > Carla

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!

Search.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you everyone for your kind posts. Mayalisa, I'm going to print your out,

your points are so insightful.

That is another thing that adds to my self hatred, I have felt that I had

" gotten over " some of the abuse and had invited others into my life. Then they

turn out to be abusers/Narcissists/Bps. No pity party here, this is an accurate

fact. It makes me feel like I'm cursed somehow and deserve to be an inhuman

doormat. Or people mistreat me because I'm a weak moron and that's what I

deserve. It just componds the feeling that I'm a freak loser.

What do I want? I don't want anything but what I'm willing to do the work to

earn. I just want to get over this terror of others long enough be able to

function.

mayalisa728 wrote:

I am so sorry for what you have been through. It sounds to me like

you are having a natural response to an insane situation. Very few

people understand what it is like to live with a Jekyll and Hyde. I

was thinking yesterday that we are told so many things in this

culture that are not true. For instance, that someone who has a

level gaze, direct eye contact, and acts calm is not lying, and that

someone that acts nervous, can't meet eye contact or look you in the

face, is probably dishonest. The fact is that the first example

could easily be of a sociopath, bpd, or npd, and the second example

could just as easily be a very honest person who has lived with

abuse all their lives and doesn't know which end is up because of

it. The fact that our society believes that 'looks good/sounds good'

IS good is what bpd/sociopath types count on. We are so isolated

from each other as a culture (not living tribally with extended

family, I mean) that so many times bpd's do not get found out...for

the brief moments they are in the 'outside world' they make sure all

their ducks are in a row. I wonder if there is a professional out

there who can walk you through some of the more difficult

situations, as far as drawing closer to people, you might need

someone to be there for you every step of the way. I think your

hesitation is well-founded, but that is only because I have drawn

severl bpd's into my life in the last couple years, which has been

devastating to me because I really thought I would be

more 'together' at this point in my life and I am not, not at all.

Bpd's are very hard to detect, and they make a point of having all

the attributes (or at least pretending to have them) that people are

drawn to like looks, money, charm, 'virtue', whatever. We know

better than anyone how hard it is to tell a bpd from a normal

person, even though there are warning signs.

I have great empathy for what you have gone through and I feel like

I don't really know what to say that would help, except that it

sounds like you are protecting yourself and that is only natural.

From the numbers my father, sister, and mother pulled on me growing

up I stay isolated alot as well. It is my nature but I think I take

it to an extreme. I wish you the best.

---------------------------------

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Guest guest]

It sounds like you know my mother. Most recently, our extended

family Christmas get-together, she snuck my daughter in the bathroom

with her to get a few minutes alone. Of course, I banged on the door

until NADA opened it and took my girl out--she is two and a half and

is sweet, strong, independent and kind. I enjoy every minute with

her. And I wish I hadn't allowed any unsupervised contact for my

daughter's whole life, but we didn't start that until she turned

one. I thought she would be okay because I couldn't imagine my NADA

hurting a baby and at the time she was married to a good guy and she

hadn't made any suicide threats in several years and she seemed

properly medicated. I was a fool--lots of mommy guilt . . . but I

won't make that mistake again.

WTOAdultChildren1 , " Girlscout Cowboy "

wrote:

>

> Oh geez, that stinks. I can just imagine the things your nada must

be coming

> up with to have a few moments alone with your daughter. My

boyfriend says

> that the most disbturbing part of BPD for him is that the people

who have it

> have no self respect. I can just imagine your mom doing something

like

> stuffing her bra with kleenex and then having the kleenex fall out

all over

> the nursery so that she can stay a few moments longer - whew, wild

> imagination, but my nada would have done that (if she hadn't been

terrified

> of her own breasts, that is).

>

> My nada also used church as a place to gossip about me, and that

was really

> really hard. It's actually probably one of my most painful

memories. But, I

> think you are on the right track. It's smart that you are leaving

and I do

> think she will lose interest.

>

> How old is your daughter by the way? It sounds like you two have a

great

> relationship! Good on you for not allowing unsupervised visits. I

literally

> wouldn't let my mother watch my dog, so don't leave her alone with

your

> precious child!

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > That is exactly what it's like! We tried to stay at church for

about

> > six months, thinking that she would eventually move on to

something

> > else. When we gave up a few weeks ago and started visiting other

> > churches (and she was waiting in our driveway), she told me that

> > she's not all that committed to our church (Sunday School teacher?

> > Lay Minister? Confirmation Classes? All just hobbies, I suppose)

and

> > that she might look around too---the subtext was that she would

look

> > wherever we are looking. AGH! I have been careful not to teach my

> > daughter the name of the church we have been attending--we call

> > it " Ms. Becky's church " because my friend Becky attends there. I

> > feel like such a coward, but it got to the point at our church

that I

> > couldn't go to the service because I couldn't leave the nursery

for

> > fear my NADA would get my daughter and tell her God-knows-what.

(We

> > don't allow NADA unsupervised time with my daughter--which we have

> > never told her but which she has figured out--and she will do

really

> > odd things to try to get a few minutes alone with her). By the

time I

> > took our girl to the nursery in the morning, the nursery worker

would

> > say, " You're mother has been by here three times already looking

for

> > her. " So I would just stay with my girl in the nursery with my

mother

> > hovering outside the window--which was fun playtime --except for

the

> > stress--but we could have done that if we spent the morning at

home--

> > without the stress. But yes, I do hope that now that we aren't

> > attending our church she will give up and we can quietly go back.

> > And I hope that if we do, that my friends will have enough history

> > with me that they won't believe all the horrible things my mother

is

> > saying. It's a church where people don't really gossip, and I like

> > to think that other people can see through her facade because all

of

> > her friendships are so short-lived.

> >

> >

> > >

> > > That's a tough one. Any chance she might lose interest in your

> > church if you

> > > ignore her behavior? I can't imagine, finding your mother at

> > church. That

> > > would sort of be like if i walked into work and found my mother

> > answering

> > > the phones at the reception desk.

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

i feel like there's so much i could have and should have done myself,

and i'm 26. most people do not understand this sense of

" passed-by " ness that i have since i'm really not that old. when i

turned 20, people would ask me how i felt and i would tell them,

" um...well...a fifth of the way dead. " but hey, it's never too late

to start something new, and it's never too late to be a mom. even if

you don't end up making any from scratch, there are plenty of kids to

adopt who need good homes.

i think that the babyboomers were in total denial of being

middle-aged, so we can't learn from them what it's supposed to be like.

bink

>

> thank you so much, bink, for both of your posts. You brought tears to

> my eyes. I really appreciate the positivity, it helps. Becoming

> middle aged is weird; it's like you feel everything you were supposed

> to do should have been done by now. I sometimes wish I'd gotten

> pregant early in life, at least I'd have a child, and I would have

> been a great mother. I have had many animals as pets and most of them

> lived to old age, unless they had a medical condition that shortened

> their lives. These are the only relationships that I have successfully

> maintained. I have a rabbit now that I adopted from an animal shelter

> in 2000 that is going on 8 years old now. Animals are so much easier

> to deal with, for me, I feel like I will never, ever understand human

> beings or be able to cope with their behavior. I am so happy for your

> dad that he is furthering his education and trying to find peace. I

> think that because our culture doesn't give much media attention to

> people's growth in middle age and beyond, it just feels like a big

> blank spot that 'doesn't count' somehow.

>

[Guest guest]

my mom was a hermit/witch and i was the bad kid. my youngest sister

was the good kid and my middle sister just was kind of there. i got

cornered in the car tons of times only to have my mom's rage dissolve

upon parking and leaving the car. i wondered whether what had just

happened had really happened.

some of my mom's abuse was emotional (regularly reminding me of how

selfish i was and how i ruined her life), but i did speak up and tell

her she was crazy. mom responded to this by knocking me around. this

happened like 4 days out of the week. my mom is not USUALLY sadistic,

but i have seen her lie to make life worse for other people, or, in

the case of my dad, try to have the divorced finalized on his

birthday. ugh...that is creepy. actually, if i had to stay home on a

dad day for a school project in the neighborhood, she would be

downright evil when i got home...really cruel. i have never felt like

i had a home anywhere because of this. ugh, i don't want to think

about this anymore. it's just dredging up more and more crap.

what i really identified with was what you said about being berated in

the car. nowhere to escape, you're strapped in, she can take you

anywhere she wants and you can't do anything about it. absolutely

trapped. then when she's done and she gets out of the car, it's like

nothing ever happened. WTF?!!?!??!??!

bink

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I say as KO's we should be forgiven for our paranoia just a

> little.

> > > >

> > > > Carla

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!

> Search.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

You have a long road a head of you. You will need to replay some of what

happened to you in order to understand and accept that you are not to blame. I

have been on my journey since I was in my mid-30s and I will turn 46 this year.

Part of my problem is that I could not let the past go and it has taken a toll

on my life. My sticking point was that I kept trying to make my family

understand. I wanted an acknowledgement from my family that this is what you

have done to me and I wanted an explaination for why they did it. I have only

just accepted that they don't know what they have done to me and are completely

uninterested in finding out and putting things right. Used up and cast aside.

Once I let go of the need for their understanding and their acknowledgement, my

pathway got much easier. It is completely understandable that you are terrified

of what people will do to you. I am impressed you are still standing.

Only you will know when it is time to let that pain go. After reading many posts

on this board I have come to the understanding that as bad as my family is, it

doesn't even rank with some of the families of the survivors on this board. Not

even close. That knowledge has helped. But this is not a competition, and

learning that others have survived much worse than I have experienced and even

thrived gives me a great deal of hope. I think just knowing that you are not

alone, and that you have found a place where you can be " normal " will serve you

well in the coming months and years it will take to rid yourself of the baggage.

If no one else understands, we do.

Hang in there. You will get there.

Re: Re: Character assasination

I'm in a bad place regarding all of this right now. I began therapy several

months ago..it has helped but I'm still in the painful healing process.

My main wound that must heal is that I have developed an absolute terror of

other people. Really, it has been destructive to my functioning as a productive

member of society. Here's the situation:

My Nada would do the cruelest abuses she could think of (having fake heart

attacks, beating me without any warning or provocation, horrible character

assassination, and one psycho episode after the next). She would do all of that

in private without witnesses but, the SECOND any member of the " public " showed

up, she would immediately become " saintly " .

Here's one example: She would often have her fake heart attacks. I had already

learned not to call the paramedics when she did that (the first time I tried to

call for help she forced me intro a choke hold and then dragged me around the

kitchen floor by my hair). Imagine this: A supposed grown woman was on the floor

in fake convulsions, frothing at the mouth. The phone then rang and, like

nothing had happened at all, she immediately got up and answered the phone. She

sounded so sweet and calm. She often changed her demeanor like a light switch.

Another example: She would rage while driving to church. She would scream

obscenities at small kids but, the SECOND, her foot hit the church parking lot,

she became " saintly " again. I would watch her as she went up to get Communion

(for those that aren't Catholic, it is a mortal sin to accept Communion without

confession. She obviously didn't consider screaming obscenities at children to

be sinful at all). I almost expected her head to spin around like the " Exorcist "

movie when she blessed herself with Holy Water or took Communion. It is terrible

when you live with a " mother " who really is just Satan's Sadistic Sister.

How did all that affect me? I don't trust anyone. The sweeter a person is the

more uncomfortable I am around them. I don't have any personal friendships

anymore because the terror of " waiting for the attack " is too much to handle.

Ironically, I can handle myself well in superficial situations. I am a kind,

respectful, and trustworthy person. Other people have noticed that and have

offered their friendships to me. The moment they ask me to socialize with them I

find excuses not to go because I am terrified that they will hurt me. I am

terrified that they are sadists that are scheming to attack when I am

vulnerable.

How do I heal from this? It has sabotaged my career,my mental health, and my

life. I want to heal but I don't know how. Do any of you feel that way? How did

you cope?

sboothdaniels <sboothdaniels@ yahoo.com> wrote:

I am sooo in that place right now. While therapy has been incredibly

supportive and discovering the real issues of my Nada have been

helpful all of this has also slammed me wide awake to the patterns

(although less) that I have learned through my nadas behavior.

Forgiveness and giving myself a break is not coming easy. I feel

horrible for some of the things I have put my husband through and yes

I do feel in my gut I am to completely blame even though it was a

dynamic. It's that black and white thing all over the right and

wrong. I am doing so much better in my relationships now and yet

still can't find the acceptance button. How come the rewind and play

back buttons are so easy to find? and the darn eject button never

works? Sorry you are having a troubled day Mercy.

Suebee

> >

> >

> > I say as KO's we should be forgiven for our paranoia just a little.

> >

> > Carla

>

------------ --------- --------- ---

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Guest guest]

Do you think what she did is crazy? May sound like a strange question but I

still don't know exactly what " healthy " is. That has led me to attract some real

evil abusers into my life. It seems that I now do to myself what Nada did to me.

How can I stop this sickness?

Wilkinson wrote: You have a long road a head of

you. You will need to replay some of what happened to you in order to understand

and accept that you are not to blame. I have been on my journey since I was in

my mid-30s and I will turn 46 this year. Part of my problem is that I could not

let the past go and it has taken a toll on my life. My sticking point was that I

kept trying to make my family understand. I wanted an acknowledgement from my

family that this is what you have done to me and I wanted an explaination for

why they did it. I have only just accepted that they don't know what they have

done to me and are completely uninterested in finding out and putting things

right. Used up and cast aside. Once I let go of the need for their understanding

and their acknowledgement, my pathway got much easier. It is completely

understandable that you are terrified of what people will do to you. I am

impressed you are still standing.

Only you will know when it is time to let that pain go. After reading many posts

on this board I have come to the understanding that as bad as my family is, it

doesn't even rank with some of the families of the survivors on this board. Not

even close. That knowledge has helped. But this is not a competition, and

learning that others have survived much worse than I have experienced and even

thrived gives me a great deal of hope. I think just knowing that you are not

alone, and that you have found a place where you can be " normal " will serve you

well in the coming months and years it will take to rid yourself of the baggage.

If no one else understands, we do.

Hang in there. You will get there.

Re: Re: Character assasination

I'm in a bad place regarding all of this right now. I began therapy several

months ago..it has helped but I'm still in the painful healing process.

My main wound that must heal is that I have developed an absolute terror of

other people. Really, it has been destructive to my functioning as a productive

member of society. Here's the situation:

My Nada would do the cruelest abuses she could think of (having fake heart

attacks, beating me without any warning or provocation, horrible character

assassination, and one psycho episode after the next). She would do all of that

in private without witnesses but, the SECOND any member of the " public " showed

up, she would immediately become " saintly " .

Here's one example: She would often have her fake heart attacks. I had already

learned not to call the paramedics when she did that (the first time I tried to

call for help she forced me intro a choke hold and then dragged me around the

kitchen floor by my hair). Imagine this: A supposed grown woman was on the floor

in fake convulsions, frothing at the mouth. The phone then rang and, like

nothing had happened at all, she immediately got up and answered the phone. She

sounded so sweet and calm. She often changed her demeanor like a light switch.

Another example: She would rage while driving to church. She would scream

obscenities at small kids but, the SECOND, her foot hit the church parking lot,

she became " saintly " again. I would watch her as she went up to get Communion

(for those that aren't Catholic, it is a mortal sin to accept Communion without

confession. She obviously didn't consider screaming obscenities at children to

be sinful at all). I almost expected her head to spin around like the " Exorcist "

movie when she blessed herself with Holy Water or took Communion. It is terrible

when you live with a " mother " who really is just Satan's Sadistic Sister.

How did all that affect me? I don't trust anyone. The sweeter a person is the

more uncomfortable I am around them. I don't have any personal friendships

anymore because the terror of " waiting for the attack " is too much to handle.

Ironically, I can handle myself well in superficial situations. I am a kind,

respectful, and trustworthy person. Other people have noticed that and have

offered their friendships to me. The moment they ask me to socialize with them I

find excuses not to go because I am terrified that they will hurt me. I am

terrified that they are sadists that are scheming to attack when I am

vulnerable.

How do I heal from this? It has sabotaged my career,my mental health, and my

life. I want to heal but I don't know how. Do any of you feel that way? How did

you cope?

sboothdaniels wrote:

I am sooo in that place right now. While therapy has been incredibly

supportive and discovering the real issues of my Nada have been

helpful all of this has also slammed me wide awake to the patterns

(although less) that I have learned through my nadas behavior.

Forgiveness and giving myself a break is not coming easy. I feel

horrible for some of the things I have put my husband through and yes

I do feel in my gut I am to completely blame even though it was a

dynamic. It's that black and white thing all over the right and

wrong. I am doing so much better in my relationships now and yet

still can't find the acceptance button. How come the rewind and play

back buttons are so easy to find? and the darn eject button never

works? Sorry you are having a troubled day Mercy.

Suebee

> >

> >

> > I say as KO's we should be forgiven for our paranoia just a little.

> >

> > Carla

>

------------ --------- --------- ---

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry that happened to you. Not making light of your situation at all but I

always hoped that my parents would divorce. If only I could have had just a few

days away from her I would be so happy. Forgot to mention this: She would scream

obscentities on the way to church, act holy while at church, the started

screaming again once we got back into the car. That is one sadistic skank.

bink1227 wrote: my mom was a

hermit/witch and i was the bad kid. my youngest sister

was the good kid and my middle sister just was kind of there. i got

cornered in the car tons of times only to have my mom's rage dissolve

upon parking and leaving the car. i wondered whether what had just

happened had really happened.

some of my mom's abuse was emotional (regularly reminding me of how

selfish i was and how i ruined her life), but i did speak up and tell

her she was crazy. mom responded to this by knocking me around. this

happened like 4 days out of the week. my mom is not USUALLY sadistic,

but i have seen her lie to make life worse for other people, or, in

the case of my dad, try to have the divorced finalized on his

birthday. ugh...that is creepy. actually, if i had to stay home on a

dad day for a school project in the neighborhood, she would be

downright evil when i got home...really cruel. i have never felt like

i had a home anywhere because of this. ugh, i don't want to think

about this anymore. it's just dredging up more and more crap.

what i really identified with was what you said about being berated in

the car. nowhere to escape, you're strapped in, she can take you

anywhere she wants and you can't do anything about it. absolutely

trapped. then when she's done and she gets out of the car, it's like

nothing ever happened. WTF?!!?!??!??!

bink

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I say as KO's we should be forgiven for our paranoia just a

> little.

> > > >

> > > > Carla

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!

> Search.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Why would you think you had asperger's syndrome? If it is because of the

isolation and disconnectedness, after reading your posts I have no doubt as to

why you feel that way. It would be normal to feel that way with what you have

survived.

Re: Character assasination

one more thing, this

" It has sabotaged my career,my mental health, and my

life. I want to heal but I don't know how. "

That is basically where I am right now. I don't have any answers.. I

am not able to get a definite diagnosis of asperger's syndrome right

now, because I don't have the money to pay a therapist, so dont'

know how much of that is contributory to it as far as my being

isolated and feeling disconnected. I just know that that is where I

am. I was thinking about this because of the thread I posted about

my family's version vs. my version, etc. My entire childhood I

really believed that if I could just get into college, I would be

okay, and my life would be okay. It should have been. But I fell

apart in college, had some kind of nervous breakdown or something,

and became chemically dependent. The summer of my sophomore year,

the abuse from my father became unbearable and I moved out and began

working. College was traumatic for me because it made me see just

how lacking in social skills I was, how fearful and unsophisticated

I was. I felt like a complete failure. I never took a class for 15

years. I was a nervous wreck around that many people. I signed up

for a cake decorating class to enhance my skills as part of my job

in about 2002 or so (I was a baker) and made it through one night.

The class was filled to over-capacity, and it was full of the kind

of women I'd been pre-college, it seemed, quasi-religious with all

the 'fake sweet' mannerisms I used to have when I was living behind

that facade and projecting a false front to hide the real me (that

kind of fake-sweet stuff makes me run for the hills too, I will

never trust it mostly because that is how my sister is). I never

went back to that class...I never even got a refund. Then in 2005 I

enrolled in community college. It feels like a slow journey back to

sanity and hope for me. I've been pillar to post my whole life,

focusing on not really being anywhere, living anywhere or

maintaining any relationships long-term. I'd stay somewhere for a

few years then disappear from people's lives. I've have missed so

much because of burning bridges...I just disappear. I feel like I

don't have 'it' whatever it is other people have to maintain

relationships. I think I purposely seek out people who are

completely unable to relate emotionally because I know the

relationship won't last and is doomed from the start. If I am honest

I feel like there is a part of me that is so broken inside from the

abuse and from losing my dream of getting a college degree (right

now I am just trying to get into a medical program at community

college) that I will never be healed. I am not meaning to hi-jack

your post I just relate, even though my parent's behavior wasn't

nearly as 'dramatic' as that of your mom. I hope we can both find

healing. I am trying to find the strength to believe that my life

still matters even though I am almost 40, because part of me feels I

should just shut up and pack it in and realized I've wasted my life,

instead of trying to blame it on my parents. I guess your post is

bringing up a lot of stuff for me.

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Looking for last minute shopping deals?

Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Guest guest]

amen!. I have been round and round with AA sponsors and people who

just don't understand the effects of living with a bpd and what it

does to your thinking...who don't understand your need to hear that

that is indeed 'crazy' behavior. It just occurred to me, it's been

said about me that I have no 'common sense' how the hell could I?

I remember confiding in an AA sponsor something that happened to me

that day and her freaking out and going 'how can you just sit there

and let people abuse you that way?!?!?' and I was like 'that's abuse?'

She totally didn't understand how anyone could be so confused about it

and not know. Hugs.

[Guest guest]

okay, that helps, thanks. I am still very fuzzy on all this but if I

look at their behavior with 'consequences' being the thing that

motivates them in all instances, or not, it seems to be a unifying

thread. When you say 'high on the lie' etc as regards to narcissists,

does that come from a specific book? I'd like to read more about this

and would love some suggestions for reading material.

[Guest guest]

wow, I can't even imagine what is going on in her head, really. I

don't have a clue. Her defense is that she didn't think her father

would 'ever touch his grandchildren'. What that means I have no

idea. Back then no one was talking about sexual abuse, it was very

hidden. I truly believe that women on both sides of my family bury

the part of their psyche that remembers the abuse. Because they

can't 'go there' they can't protect their own children, or any

children around them. Instead of looking for 'warning signs' that

predators give out, they either don't see them or they attract them.

Since it is too painful for *them* to deal with they can't see it in

the lives of their children and protect them. It's the heighth of

narcissism, really, you can't get much more narcissistic than that.

I really believe that my mom got married and left home and believed

the past was the past. She didn't understand about repetition

compulsion or any of that stuff, even today very few people do. I

confronted my dad and her about this once...I said, how on earth

could you even send your child to stay unsupervised with someone who

was a *even* chronic alcoholic, a daily drinker. He rode the train

to come get me and went immediately to the bar on the train and got

drunk. They were both in complete denial...and they sure don't

appreciate me bringing this stuff up now, either. To them and to the

family members I've talked about it to I am just tormenting them

with the past. I am sorry for my mom but I'm also sorry for my own

experience. I do believe the guilt of this torments her. Actually,

you know, the guilt was tormenting her when my brother went NC with

my family and she lost her grandchild. Now that my brother is back

on the scene and apparently 'didn't really mean it' about the sexual

abuse and their refusal to acknowledge it being the reason he went

NC (he might have been abused as well) something seems to have

shifted, and not for the better, in our relationship. This is in the

past few months.

I am much more angry with her about her treatment of me when I

started showing emotional problems from the abuse than the initial

abuse happening. I don't know why that is. I guess because when I

was that young she was in denial and no one was talking about it.

When I was older, everyone was talking about it, I had a meltdown

and started therapy (and became addicted) and she told me it was

like my sister and I " bragged about " having been sexually abused. Of

course she " doesn't remember " saying that now. I remember exactly

where I was standing, what I was wearing, etc, when she said that.

Thanks so much for your posts on here, and your questions, they have

gotten me thinking.

[Guest guest]

yeah, it makes sense...they'll never try to pick on someone they're

own size.

okay, that helps, thanks. I am

still very fuzzy on all this but if I

> look at their behavior with 'consequences' being the thing that

> motivates them in all instances, or not, it seems to be a unifying

> thread. When you say 'high on the lie' etc as regards to narcissists,

> does that come from a specific book? I'd like to read more about this

> and would love some suggestions for reading material.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Makes extreme sense.

Re: Re: Character assasination

Sorry, I should have clarified. Narcissists are motivated by " whim " and they

only modify their behavior due to fear of " consequences " . One example, if a

Narc feels the whim to slap a person across the face they don't judge the

situation in terms of right/wrong, fair/unfair.. They will slap that person if

they feel that they can get away with it without consequences. Usually a Narc

will abuse someone that is vunerable but never hit, for example, a 300 pound

bodybuilder.

Does that make any sense?

Heon <mheonyahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

It doesn't come from a book it is just what I have observed in my experience.

There have been some discussions about the connection between narcisssism, drug

addiction, and mental health issues. A " dry drunk " would be considered a

narcissist that once drank but, now even being sober, still utilizes the same

projection, deflection, and denial that an alcoholic uses. Interesting, these

are the exact same tactics used by any Narcissist whether they use substances or

not.

mayalisa728 <mayalisa728@ yahoo.com> wrote: okay, that helps, thanks. I am still

very fuzzy on all this but if I

look at their behavior with 'consequences' being the thing that

motivates them in all instances, or not, it seems to be a unifying

thread. When you say 'high on the lie' etc as regards to narcissists,

does that come from a specific book? I'd like to read more about this

and would love some suggestions for reading material.

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __

[Guest guest]

She sounds like a real trouble maker.Did she get away with it because of charm

or because she instilled fear in people?

The term " high on the lie " actually pertains to anyone that uses denial or

lying to achieve satisfaction. Narc comes down to being nothing more than a

warped sense of self hypnosis; these people actually lie to themselves so

repeatedly that they believe it. Once you get yourself to believe one lie, its

easy to believe another. Look into the techniques of hypnosis and you'll see

what I'm saying.

The rest of the saying is " High on the Lie. Drunk on Deflection. Stoned on

Selfishness " . Think that pretty much sums up most Narcs and career criminals.

mayalisa728 wrote:

I love that phrase 'high on the lie' and it would be great if at some

point you could write out the bullet points...I have witnessed

the 'high on the lie' behavior in a friend of mine, slandering people

and then eating them alive when they tried to defend themselves

against her, despite the fact that she was completely in the wrong

with what she was doing and the truth was not on her side. Her

presence was so strong that she got away with it, and you could just

feel the satifaction she was getting from hurting someone coming out

of her pores, it was like hurting people was her 'raison d'etre'; she

could have been a junkie or a kleptomaniac but instead her 'fix' was

playing these games, breaking up couples and wooing the man to her

side. It was sick and bizarre, but clearly she got a 'high' from it.

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Doesn't matter what you look like on the outside, you can have an evil soul on

the inside. This person is a case in point. I hope you are NC with this messed

up person. You don't need that when there are plenty of good people around.

Re: Character assasination

she got away with it by looks, charm, money, and charisma. I should

have said former friend rather than friend. She does something I've

never seen anyone do, which is cultivate suitors behind the scenes so

that they will rush to her defense when she is going after one of her

victims. I realized that she was making each potential suitor think

they were 'the one' or close to being 'the one'...whereas normal

people would take care not to lead anyone on she would tease people,

even tell them she 'loved them' and call them 'darling' and tell them

how 'wonderful' they were. Because she looked like a model (or an

older version of a model) men just fell all over themselves for her.

Really a vicious person that had the ability to come out smelling like

a rose because her suitors were so ga-ga over her and would defend her

against people whom she had genuinely wronged; she really seemed to

love 'stealing' men from women who were interested in them, when the

relationship was new. She betrayed my trust in a really public and

vicious way, but live and learn. I needed to know there were bad

people in the world, not violent criminals but people like her who

thrive on causing others emotional pain for sport.

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs