RE: bs peaks vs plateau

[Guest guest]

As a type 1 I've found it practically impossible not to peak over 140. And

I'm trying Really Hard. Any other type 1s out there who can keep peaks under

140?? Vicki

In a message dated 01-06-13 16:36:03 EDT, you write:

<<

I really believe that any time spent above the level of the normal

non-diabetic (70-110mg/dl) carries an increased risk for complications in the

long-run. This is just my opinion, and probably flies in the face of what

most

of the medical community believes. Largely they are happy if we stay under

150mg/dl fasting.

>>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, neither choice is better than the other, IMHO, and I wouldn't

consider it an option for me. I know you're having a hard time letting go,

. It can be hard, but for me, it's my health and my life, and that

makes the choices easier for me.

Barb

> Anyone have a guess or opinion on which is worse. A high peak of lets say

> 190 that goes away within two hour or a plateau slow rise say that goes to

> 160 and stays there for 4 hrs or so.

>

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> Anyone have a guess or opinion on which is worse. A high peak of lets say

> 190 that goes away within two hour or a plateau slow rise say that goes to

> 160 and stays there for 4 hrs or so.

>

,

For myself, I would find neither of those scenarios acceptable, but I don't

know which is worse in the long run.

I strive for never going over 140, even after eating Less is better.

I really believe that any time spent above the level of the normal

non-diabetic (70-110mg/dl) carries an increased risk for complications in the

long-run. This is just my opinion, and probably flies in the face of what most

of the medical community believes. Largely they are happy if we stay under

150mg/dl fasting.

T2, 4/98, controlling with low-carb diet only for 3 years

[Guest guest]

> Sorry, neither choice is better than the other, IMHO, and I wouldn't

> consider it an option for me. I know you're having a hard time

letting go,

> . It can be hard, but for me, it's my health and my life, and

that

> makes the choices easier for me.

>

> Barb

>

> > Anyone have a guess or opinion on which is worse. A high peak of

lets say

> > 190 that goes away within two hour or a plateau slow rise say

that goes to

> > 160 and stays there for 4 hrs or so.

> >

Here is where the long-running battle between low carb and ADA really

hits. , there is no total consensus on this board or anywhere

in the diabetes world.

Those of us who do higher carbs but limit fats would argue THAT THERE

IS NO DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE THAT LONG-TERM VERY LOW CARB DIETS ARE

SAFE, so the people on this board who respond ARROGANTLY, as even the

MODERATOR of this board just did, are (IMHO) out of line. When she

says " It's my health and my life, " that's pretty arrogant, as though

anyone who disagrees doesn't care about their health and their life

There are many on this list who assume that long-term low carb is

safe, but the evidence on that is " anecdotal. " For example, Dr.

Bernstein will say " It works for me and my patients. " To the

scientific community, that's " anecdotal. " To be scientific you have

to try multiple groups and control each one, keeping and publishing

statistics. It's difficult and expensive.

The problem is that everyone who has enough money to run controlled

scientific studies assumes that low carb isn't safe, so they will not

even run such tests.

Dr. Bernstein hasn't run such tests, and Atkins has not yet been able

to do it, either. I assume they don't have the resources.

T

[Guest guest]

HI,

I think that there should be something said about the QUALITY of ones life.

Eating this high protein diet is for the birds..I'm sick of it and I've only

been on it 3 weeks.

I'm at the point now that I would rather not eat at all if I have to spend the

rest of my life eating like this...It has taken my blood sugar down..but it goes

up and down with drastic elevations , even when I eat all protein.

I certainly don't FEEL better..I feel worse..have no energy at all now.

When I was eating what I wanted to eat I felt better..more energy, not as

depressed.

To make matters worse, my husband is not diabetic so he can eat anything he

wants and I have to continue to make the starchy foods for him...I feel like I'm

being crap when I'm making all this good food for him and I can't eat one bite

of it. and I hate those protein bars too...

There is alot to be said about the quality of life also. This diet is making me

miserable..Sorry for ranting like this ..just had to get it out...

Patsy

-- Re: bs peaks vs plateau

Sorry, neither choice is better than the other, IMHO, and I wouldn't

consider it an option for me. I know you're having a hard time letting go,

. It can be hard, but for me, it's my health and my life, and that

makes the choices easier for me.

Barb

> Anyone have a guess or opinion on which is worse. A high peak of lets say

> 190 that goes away within two hour or a plateau slow rise say that goes to

> 160 and stays there for 4 hrs or so.

>

[Guest guest]

Regarding the long term safety of diet alternatives, there are no long term

placebo controlled studies for any of them -- including the high carb, low

fat diets pushed by much of the medical profession. In fact, it is

practically impossible to construct such a study. However, keep in mind

that anecdotal evidence is real evidence and is really scientific evidence.

Scientists do not just ignore observations because they have not yet devised

a way to systemically test them. The anecdotal evidence, in this particular

case, is real scientific evidence that low carb eating works for at least

some people over long periods of time.

Next, while I am not Barb the moderator, I really do not see the statement

" It's my health and my life, " as arrogant. Rather, to me, it implies that

each of us is responsible for our own health -- as much as we would like to,

we cannot really delegate that responsibility to our doctor, etc. Barb did

not say she was responsible for my, or anyone else's, health but for her

own. She did not say that someone who decides to follow a different WOE

cares less about their health.

One thing that is clear from available evidence, and is becoming more clear

as more studies are made, is that high blood sugars are harmful. Peaks of

190, or 4 hour runs of 160, are both harmful. We may not know which is

worse, but neither is good. Do we really disagree on this (regardless of

how we eat)?

The article referenced below:

http://diabetes.medscape.com/mosby/AmHeartJ/2001/v141.n03/ahj1413.06.fixm/ah

j1413.06.fixm-01.html

From the American Heart Journal, titled " Impaired Fasting Glucose

Concentrations in Nondiabetic Patients With Ischemic Heart Disease: A Marker

for a Worse Prognosis " adds to the evidence that " impaired " glucose levels

not even high enough to be diagnosed as diabetic still lead to measurably

increased mortality, particularly from heart disease.

So, no matter what one thinks is the way to get there, the evidence keeps

piling up that better control (i.e., really normal blood sugars) means a

longer, healthier, life and decreased medical expenses. Isn't that why we

are here on this list -- to support each other in controlling this @#@%%

condition?

Tom the Actuary

[Guest guest]

i've been at this for 25+ years and i peak at over 140 on a good day, now for

the low carb diet i did not increase the amount of protein just cut the carbs

down and the peaks arn't as bad, but i have been documented going as low as 25

and still be awake and coherant so i can handle very low lows and highs up to

467. the more i am on low to mod carbs the highs are not as high but the lows

are more often and have a stronger kick to them. so i have to keep as eye on it

i now have the problem of not knowing when it hits till i hit 36 or so. now that

dose not give a person time to react much thank god for gluco tabs.

glenna

Re: bs peaks vs plateau

As a type 1 I've found it practically impossible not to peak over 140. And

I'm trying Really Hard. Any other type 1s out there who can keep peaks under

140?? Vicki

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicki,

And some of us T2s without meds can't just dose for those extra tastes...but

I can still have my forkfull <g>.

Carol T

In a message dated 6/13/01 10:07:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, whimsy2@...

writes:

> Thanks for the kind words, . No, I don't let it stress me...I'm just

> jealous of all those type 2s out there who cut carbs and watch their A1Cs

go

>

> from 12 to 6 in three months. On the other hand, I don't have to deal

with

>

> overweight and food cravings, smile... Vicki

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/14/01 3:42:53 AM Central Daylight Time,

woodduckflds@... writes:

<<

Thanks for this info- ok both are bad. So that means I can never eat bread.

I sometimes feel that I am safest sleeping!

>>

For me....there are things i cannot eat....(besides my stolen bites)....but

there is so much more that I can eat......and so many more things I can do

now that I feel better!! All in all life is better for me on this

lifestyle than before.....

ressy

[Guest guest]

>

> Just a question for all of you - Do you test one hour after you start

> eating or one hour after you finish eating? I know it sounds like a dumb

> question but sometimes it takes me 1/2 hour to eat because of

interruptions.

> Thanks so much. Winifred

I test before and after every meal. Sometimes it is two hours after I start

eating, sometimes it is two hours after I finish eating. It depends on the

circumstances. If you are at home and it is convenient then two hours from

the " middle " of the meal is good. Unless you are running some type of

" test " , plus or minus 1/2 hour should not be too important. JerrySteg

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01-06-14 00:17:42 EDT, you write:

<< There is alot to be said about the quality of life also. This diet is

making me miserable..Sorry for ranting like this ..just had to get it out...

Patsy

>>

Patsy, it's all right to rant. None of us deserve diabetes, it's just one of

life's dirty tricks. It's hard to give up favorite foods ...but have you

read the posts about lowcarb recipes? This would be a good source for a

wider variety of foods that you can eat without pushing up your BGs.

The thing is...you may find your current situation difficult but if you don't

get control of your BGs,. the longterm consequences of poorly controlled BGs

are a LOT worse than not eating your favorite foods. Yes, they won't turn up

for a while...but when they do, you'll wish you'd paid attention to those

high BGs. Are you ready for blindness, extremely painful neuropathy,

possible amputation of limbs,, heart disease, renal disease, death? With

good control of your BGs, you can keep these Awful Consequences away. Well,

maybe not the last one, but at least you don't have to die of diabetic

compolications. Vicki

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01-06-14 00:17:42 EDT, you write:

<< This high protein diet is for the birds..I'm sick of it and I've only been

on it 3 weeks. I'm at the point now that I would rather not eat at all if I

have to spend the rest of my life eating like this...It has taken my blood

sugar down..but it goes up and down with drastic elevations , even when I eat

all protein. >>

Patsy, are you taking any medications? If so, which and how much? Are you

exercising? I'm assuming you're a type 2, is this correct? Vicki

[Guest guest]

I test one hr after I start eating.-

ps- if it is a new food I might do more. Like 1/2 hr, 1hr. 1.5 hrs and 2

hrs. The chicken I had yesterday peaked at 1/2 hr!! By one hr I was coming

down.

----------

To: <diabetes_int >

Subject: RE: bs peaks vs plateau

Date: Thu, Jun 14, 2001, 9:33 AM

Just a question for all of you - Do you test one hour after you start

eating or one hour after you finish eating? I know it sounds like a dumb

question but sometimes it takes me 1/2 hour to eat because of interruptions.

Thanks so much. Winifred

-----Original Message-----

Thanks for the kind words, . No, I don't let it stress me...I'm just

jealous of all those type 2s out there who cut carbs and watch their A1Cs

go

from 12 to 6 in three months. On the other hand, I don't have to deal

with

overweight and food cravings, smile... Vicki

[Guest guest]

Have you tested to see how many carbs you can add back into your diet to

keep it from being so boring. I like meat. Raw veggies and meat with some

beans and a bite of something once in a while seems to work for me. Better

than the alternative. Remember feet, food, eyes, food. Pick the better

choice.

Best Regards, Ratliff

bobratliff@...

ICQ 1495914

AIM mtncurr22

Msn Msgr. Ratliff

SE Tenn.

Get Paltalk at www.paltalk.com and look for TennRascal2001. Text and great

voice chat. See you there. 2 must have utilities: www.copernic.com and

www.ghisler.com

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

<*> " I am not THE guru of this list, but I am a legend in my own

mind " ...... Ratliff <*>

Re: bs peaks vs plateau

Sorry, neither choice is better than the other, IMHO, and I wouldn't

consider it an option for me. I know you're having a hard time letting

go,

. It can be hard, but for me, it's my health and my life, and that

makes the choices easier for me.

Barb

> Anyone have a guess or opinion on which is worse. A high peak of lets

say

> 190 that goes away within two hour or a plateau slow rise say that goes

to

> 160 and stays there for 4 hrs or so.

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01-06-14 03:21:18 EDT, you write:

<<

Is the 70-110 in the morning - a fasting rate? I try never to go over

140 after eating. I only went over once and haven't done it again. I range

about 90-95 in the morning. Is that OK? Thanks so much. Winifred

>>

Winifred, fasting rate refers to what your BG is first thing in the morning,

when you get up, before you've eaten anything. It can be any number.

However, if you're 70-110 fasting, before eating anything, that's excellent.

That 90-95 is also great. (Wish I could be there all the time!) Vicki, type

1

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01-06-14 04:43:00 EDT, you write:

<< So that means I can never eat bread. >>

Not necessarily, ...you can eat a little bit of the lowcarb bread (I

mentioned this yesterday). Or half a lowcarb bagel from Synergy. Vicki

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01-06-14 04:58:21 EDT, you write:

<<

Vicki- thanks for posting this- I find hearing everyone staying under 120

makes me feel like I am not doing enough. I too try hard!-

ps - Tommorrow I am having filet mignon and spinach

>>

All we can do is try our best! I'm under 120 about half the time...over 140

about half the time and of that, between 180 200 now and then. But not for

very long...Ron Sebol designed a computer program for me that will tell me

how much of a corrective dose to take when I'm above 135 3 hours after

eating. That helps. (I'm Extremely math impaired)

Enjoy your filet mignon and spinach! BTW, have you tried steaming

cauliflower then throwing it into the blender with a little cream and cream

cheese, salt and pepper? ? It looks just like mashed potatos and almost

tastes like it, especially if you add cheddar or pepper jack cheese just

before reheating individuao portions in the microwave. And hardly ANY carbs.

Vicki

Vicki

..

[Guest guest]

The Sheridan's wrote:

>

> Just a question for all of you - Do you test one hour after you start

> eating or one hour after you finish eating? I know it sounds like a dumb

> question but sometimes it takes me 1/2 hour to eat because of interruptions.

> Thanks so much. Winifred

2 hours after eating is where you should be under 140, better to be

under 120, but everyone is different.

--

Dave - 12:39:01 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH, H

-

Davors Daily Aphorism:

If nobody measures up, check your yardstick.

--

Visit my PhotoPage:

http://zing.com/album/pictures.html?id=4292795721

[Guest guest]

Patsy

That is a normal pattern for insulin resistance. According to what I have

learned your bodies ability to process the glucose with the insulin improves

during the day. I have learned to use this to my advantage. I avoid the

carbs in the morning (and cottage cheese is pretty carby due to the sugar in

the milk....try yogurt instead...the bacteria eat most of the sugar) and

plan them for the afternoon or lunch. Dinner I keep lower also but not as

low as breakfast.

Ressy

[Guest guest]

But , we still can eat lots of good things. And we can taste, smell,

see, walk, talk, run, think, sing, and cry -- and sleep and wake up. And

more.

And we are more likely to do these things better and longer if we can

control our blood sugar levels, which is generally possible, even if it's

not fun. That's the reward. We are blessed. Lots of other conditions do

not give one the option of such control and quality of life.

Tom the Actuary

Re: Re: bs peaks vs plateau

Thanks for this info- ok both are bad. So that means I can never eat bread.

I sometimes feel that I am safest sleeping!

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicky,

I've been taking Glucatrol 10 mg each morning for about a year..then my

bloodsugar was 340 three wks ago when I went to the doctor. He prescribed 1000

mg a day of Glucaphage taken at night.

I live in a neighborhood that is not very good for walking so I don't excercise

except for the daily chores that I do.I used to love working in my yard but I

just don't have the energy anymore.

By the way. when I woke up this morning my bs was 164, had about a half cup of

cottage cheese and it went up to 204..for lunch, I had mixed vegetables and some

sliced beef..2 hrs later my bs is 97...I feel ok..but I thought I should have a

snack so I ate about one ounce of peanuts ...

It just keeps going up and down..I can't seem to keep it at one level.

Patsy

-- Re: bs peaks vs plateau

In a message dated 01-06-14 00:17:42 EDT, you write:

<< This high protein diet is for the birds..I'm sick of it and I've only been

on it 3 weeks. I'm at the point now that I would rather not eat at all if I

have to spend the rest of my life eating like this...It has taken my blood

sugar down..but it goes up and down with drastic elevations , even when I eat

all protein. >>

Patsy, are you taking any medications? If so, which and how much? Are you

exercising? I'm assuming you're a type 2, is this correct? Vicki

[Guest guest]

Vicky,

I forgot to mention that I'm type two.

Patsy

-- Re: bs peaks vs plateau

In a message dated 01-06-14 00:17:42 EDT, you write:

<< This high protein diet is for the birds..I'm sick of it and I've only been

on it 3 weeks. I'm at the point now that I would rather not eat at all if I

have to spend the rest of my life eating like this...It has taken my blood

sugar down..but it goes up and down with drastic elevations , even when I eat

all protein. >>

Patsy, are you taking any medications? If so, which and how much? Are you

exercising? I'm assuming you're a type 2, is this correct? Vicki

[Guest guest]

GayRghts@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 6/14/01 3:23:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> woodduckflds@... writes:

>

> << I am trying to decide whether to

> include some carbs into my diet and risk the high bs of 190. I can

> definately eat low carb all day but I think I need the occassional splurge.

> >>

> for me its impt to have occassional splurges, they do not greatly

> affect my overall HBA1C, and they keep me on the low carb food plan for the

> most part.

> I choose ones that will give me a peak, vs a extended high because i believe

> that it's impt to get back to normal as soon as possible.

> I try not to obsess over this stuff thou. I 'd end up in the looney bin if i

> kept at this so rigidly.

>

That's what I said when I got that jelly doughnut from Dunkin Doughnuts

this morning.. I usually just get the black coffee, but.... it's been a

while.

Now back to the ball game.

--

Dave - 3:27:54 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH, H

-

Davors Daily Aphorism:

All E-mail gladly received. Offensive reply ASAP.

--

Visit my PhotoPage:

http://zing.com/album/pictures.html?id=4292795721

[Guest guest]

Patsy, I'm not Vicky, but I think there are lessons in your post. For

example:

1. You probably shouldn't have cottage cheese for breakfast. It's not

particularly low in carbs and apparently raises you blood sugar level a lot.

Actually, hard cheeses (motzerlla, jack, etc.) have much fewer carbs (check

the lables).

2. The mixed vegies with beef seems to be a good meal for you. Remember

that, and use the information to try similar meals that might work well.

Then test again.

You didn't say what the peanuts did, but true nuts (peanuts are really in

the bean family), like almonds, walnuts, hazelnuts, etc. have much fewer

carbs and many find that peanuts can raise their blood sugars.

Looking at the effects of various foods (i.e., testing, testing, testing) is

how we learn what we can eat and what we should avoid. That is how we can

start to stabilize our blood sugars. By the way, do you have the book " Dr.

Bernstein's Diabetes Solution " ? If not, I would highly recommend it. It is

a " must have " for anyone with blood sugar problems.

Tom the Actuary

[Guest guest]

" Winifred M. Sheridan " wrote:

> Is the 70-110 in the morning - a fasting rate? I try never to go over

> 140 after eating. I only went over once and haven't done it again. I range

> about 90-95 in the morning. Is that OK? Thanks so much. Winifred

> For myself, I would find neither of those scenarios acceptable, but I

> don't

> know which is worse in the long run.

> I strive for never going over 140, even after eating Less is better.

When I mentioned the 70-110 (normal non-diabetic), I was referring to daily

average fasting/pre-meal numbers. I shoot for that, recognizing that in the

morning I am usually at the high-end or even up to 120 or so, but the rest of

the day the pre-meal numbers are under 100.

From the numbers you gave, it sounds like you are doing great. 90-95 in the

morning is IMHO very good, and I wish I could get mine back down there. Still

working on it, but need to overcome the " I hate exercise " thing!!!