Guest guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 Gene, you've killed me! I've just died laughing! , who nearly snorted coffee out of her pretty little nose In a message dated 10/10/00 10:30:54 PM Central Daylight Time, wegandy@... writes: << Good Lord, Man, you suggestin by yore post that Paramedics need to know terms like " hemanopsia " and " ataxia? " You must be one of them " edjikated fools " like some folks here in Texiz are awantin us to be. Us good ole boys kin start a IV on a Snake-acrawlin-in-the-dark-on-a-muddy-road-an still chug a -Lite. Don't unnerstan why we need no edjikation. By tha way, y'all do alligator rasslin in yore off times? Gene Gandy, JD, LP, OTRC (Official Texas Resident Cynic) >> This book is dedicated to Jesus Christ and the principles that He taught. Two thousands ago His parable of the Good Samaritan set the standards to which we in EMS still strive to meet. Emory , MD, FACEP Basic Trauma Life Support, fourth edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 In a message dated 10/10/2000 10:31:07 PM Central Daylight Time, wegandy@... writes: << Good Lord, Man, you suggestin by yore post that Paramedics need to know terms like " hemanopsia " and " ataxia? " You must be one of them " edjikated fools " like some folks here in Texiz are awantin us to be. Us good ole boys kin start a IV on a Snake-acrawlin-in-the-dark-on-a-muddy-road-an still chug a -Lite. Don't unnerstan why we need no edjikation. By tha way, y'all do alligator rasslin in yore off times? Gene Gandy, JD, LP, OTRC (Official Texas Resident Cynic) >> Next thing I know, Gene will be telling my paramedics that they don't know what those words mean because they didn't go to TJC or some other college. I believe in all the education you can get, but I don't for a minute think that my paramedics don't know what those words mean because they have no LP by their name. I know cynicism and your starting to make people think we are all ignorant EMTP's. This is no way to win this argument and no matter how much tongue in cheek you try to muster, there are intelligent Paramedics that do know each and every term that we ask of them in our Protocols. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 In a message dated 10/11/2000 02:57:10 PM Central Daylight Time, rachfoote@... writes: << In a message dated 10/10/2000 10:31:07 PM Central Daylight Time, wegandy@... writes: << Good Lord, Man, you suggestin by yore post that Paramedics need to know terms like " hemanopsia " and " ataxia? " You must be one of them " edjikated fools " like some folks here in Texiz are awantin us to be. Us good ole boys kin start a IV on a Snake-acrawlin-in-the-dark-on-a-muddy-road-an still chug a -Lite. Don't unnerstan why we need no edjikation. By tha way, y'all do alligator rasslin in yore off times? Gene Gandy, JD, LP, OTRC (Official Texas Resident Cynic) >> Next thing I know, Gene will be telling my paramedics that they don't know what those words mean because they didn't go to TJC or some other college. I believe in all the education you can get, but I don't for a minute think that my paramedics don't know what those words mean because they have no LP by their name. I know cynicism and your starting to make people think we are all ignorant EMTP's. This is no way to win this argument and no matter how much tongue in cheek you try to muster, there are intelligent Paramedics that do know each and every term that we ask of them in our Protocols. -------- >> I apologize for not signing, I was in a hurry to relieve my frustrations of a " going the wrong way with this argument " headache. Andy Foote Beaumont EMS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 In a message dated 10/11/00 11:18:36 AM Central Daylight Time, gracedunderfire@... writes: << Gene, you've killed me! I've just died laughing! , who nearly snorted coffee out of her pretty little nose In a message dated 10/10/00 10:30:54 PM Central Daylight Time, wegandy@... writes: >> Hope remembered her CPR or had an AED real handy! All I had was me and I nearly died laughing too. He does have a unique way of getting across what he needs to!! Glenda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 In a message dated 10/11/00 12:56:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rachfoote@... writes: << << Good Lord, Man, you suggestion by yore post that Paramedics need to know terms like " hemanopsia " and " ataxia? " You must be one of them " edjikated fools " like some folks here in Texiz are awantin us to be. Us good ole boys kin start a IV on a Snake-acrawlin-in-the-dark-on-a-muddy-road-an still chug a -Lite. Don't unnerstan why we need no edjikation. By tha way, y'all do alligator rasslin in yore off times? Gene Gandy, JD, LP, OTRC (Official Texas Resident Cynic) >> Next thing I know, Gene will be telling my paramedics that they don't know what those words mean because they didn't go to TJC or some other college. I believe in all the education you can get, but I don't for a minute think that my paramedics don't know what those words mean because they have no LP by their name. I know cynicism and your starting to make people think we are all ignorant EMTP's. This is no way to win this argument and no matter how much tongue in cheek you try to muster, there are intelligent Paramedics that do know each and every term that we ask of them in our Protocols. >> Well, Ms. Rachfoote, I won't expound on your e-mail even if I do not agree with you. But I did want to say one thing, you obviously do not know Gene Gandy. He in no way even implied that if a paramedic did not attend TJC they were inferior. Gene is simply trying to make people realize that EDUCATION is essential if we ever want paramedicine to be recognized as a profession. Do I always agree with Gene Gandy? No, I do not, even if he is my boss. But I have to go along with Barry Sharp when I say that I think you missed his point. Today's Thought: When you have been wronged, try to strike the balance between forgiving and forgetting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 In a message dated 10/11/00 4:06:13 PM Central Daylight Time, rachfoote@... writes: << In a message dated 10/11/2000 03:17:40 PM Central Daylight Time, barry.sharp@... writes: >> Again, I don't think Gene's purpose was to put down anyone with or without certain types of education. What he was trying to do, in my humble opinion, was remind us we need to know the terms so that we can use them and know their meanings AND be able to incorporate them into our run sheets (even though I've been told by nurses it's not important or necessary to use those words-just use everyday words that everyone understands-thought they took the course on meaning of words too) so that we look on paper as intelligent as we are in mind. It also might come up in a court appearance and we would look more like we understand our profession IF we use the words we are taught. I am an EMTI (notice I didn't say JUST-I hate that word in any level of our profession from ECA-EMTP because we worked hard at getting that certification) and if someone is smart enough to add another letter to his/her certification, more power to them! God bless them! That is what higher education is for! For those who can go after the " Gold " and get it. He wasn't being rude. You have to understand Gene better to understand that! Like I said in a previous post, Gene, I'm still looking up that word hemanopsia! I pride myself on being able to break down words to find their meaning which, makes my husband jealous or at least a little since he can't, and it sure helped in classes and on the State test! My class members would study with me when it came to the words since I have an ability God blessed me with. Too bad he skipped other areas (LOL). Please don't judge Gene on this one post because you think he is putting down Paramedics. He wasn't. AND, I have never met Gene nor talked to him except on these post and in private post! So I do not know him any more than you do, except, I've read all his post and reread some I took offense to in order to understand them and get the FULL meaning out of them without jumping the gun like I did at first with one other member whom I have apologized to here on this post and in a private post. I may not be the smartest EMTI there is in Texas, but one thing is for sure, I tried to make my run reports sound professional when I was able to ride and secondly I hold Gene as well as several others including Ron H. and Jana in high esteem since I have learned to read and reread their postings. I've noticed that a lot of the postings had so many misspellings in them I cringed. As I read them I though first that the person writing them was fooling around then it occurred to me that they didn't know how to spell. That second thought is scary since these reports we write can and do end up in some court cases and nothing can throw out a report faster than all those misspelled words that the lawyers nor the jurors can read. As for the words Gene just threw at us. One is so common everyone should know it, and I have to admit I either sleep through my portion of the class on the first word or I've never heard it and to be honest, I don't remember hearing it and can't find it in my EMS books. So Gene, HELP and give this poor grandmother a break with the definition, please. Glenda (LloydEMTI) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 That is how I took his post. Lord knows I've seen paramedics on both sides of the fence. As for me I still read the text books and the professional journals...I hope I'm considered to be one of the 'edjikated fools'. Poe In a message dated 10/11/00 4:59:49 PM Central Daylight Time, LloydEMTI@... writes: << I for one do not think Gene was trying to be negative about anyone's understanding of words we were taught in class. I think he was trying to be humorous and at the same time point out that some of us may have forgotten them and that it shows more professionalism on a report if we use these words in place of the common everyday words. >> This book is dedicated to Jesus Christ and the principles that He taught. Two thousands ago His parable of the Good Samaritan set the standards to which we in EMS still strive to meet. Emory , MD, FACEP Basic Trauma Life Support, fourth edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 In a message dated 10/11/2000 05:21:20 PM Central Daylight Time, RaaEMS605@... writes: << > Well, Ms. Rachfoote, I won't expound on your e-mail even if I do not agree with you. But I did want to say one thing, you obviously do not know Gene Gandy. >> I signed my email Andy Foote or I went back and signed it after I realized I had not done so the first time. I have read everything Mr. Gandy has written. I have agreed with 99% of it and have corresponded accordingly. You do not have to explain education to me. I am a graduate with a 4 year degree. It is not in EMS, not in music, not in law. I do, however, know how to read an email. I knew that everyone but me understood Gene, as usual. I shall go quietly back where I came from and try and figure out how you got Ms. Rachfoote out of my post. This is why I shall hide in the corner forever. You welcome input unless it crosses your job, your boss or you just can't understand what I wrote. Thanks for the memories Andy Foote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 Education is an end in itself. EMS will not be regarded by others as a profession until we are educated as a whole. I don't think Mr. Gandy intended to insult anyone, or compare the intelligence of LP vs. EMT-P. --- LloydEMTI@... wrote: > << Good Lord, Man, you suggestin by yore post that > Paramedics need to know > terms like " hemanopsia " and " ataxia? " You must be > one of them " edjikated > fools " like some folks here in Texiz are awantin > us to be > > I for one do not think Gene was trying to be > negative about anyone's > understanding of words we were taught in class. I > think he was trying to be > humorous and at the same time point out that some of > us may have forgotten > them and that it shows more professionalism on a > report if we use these words > in place of the common everyday words. By the way, > Gene, gotta look up > hemanopsia unless you give me the meaning. " Hema " > means blood " an or a " > means without and but what does the " opsia " mean? > Not fooling around, and > not too proud to ask for help! Any chance it means > without blood? Just call > me confused or best of all STUMPED! Got to go look > it up! > > Glenda > > Glenda > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 In a message dated 10/12/2000 09:34:44 AM Central Daylight Time, d.jackson@... writes: << The sad thing is I know some Texas medics from which that post would have to be taken seriously. We do have some colleagues who seem to revel in their lack of education and in their ignorance. >> You see, no one has yet to argue that education is the key, but we still are downgrading our COLLEAGUES as reveling in their ignorance. I am just saying that they are not ignorant nor or you their colleague if you refer to them this way. I only hope you understand what you are saying when you write these posts. We Love Education. OK but some do not have it and they are excellent 15 yr paramedics at a high level EMS system that do understand more that you sound like you give them credit for. No wonder you cannot get them to join you. Please read what you write and think of all of us as partners in creating a better educated Paramedic. Thx for your consideration. Andy Foote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 That's how I took it too. The sad thing is I know some Texas medics from which that post would have to be taken seriously. We do have some colleagues who seem to revel in their lack of education and in their ignorance. They wave it like a banner of honor, which it is not. Formal education, as well as solid experience, is our future. Lack of it will be our death. Dave Re: [texasems-L] Fwd: Rapid Transport > That is how I took his post. Lord knows I've seen paramedics on both sides > of the fence. As for me I still read the text books and the professional > journals...I hope I'm considered to be one of the 'edjikated fools'. > > Poe > > In a message dated 10/11/00 4:59:49 PM Central Daylight Time, > LloydEMTI@... writes: > > << I for one do not think Gene was trying to be negative about anyone's > understanding of words we were taught in class. I think he was trying to be > humorous and at the same time point out that some of us may have forgotten > them and that it shows more professionalism on a report if we use these > words > in place of the common everyday words. >> > > > This book is dedicated to Jesus Christ and the principles that He taught. Two > thousands ago His parable of the Good Samaritan set the standards to which we > in EMS still strive to meet. > Emory , MD, FACEP > Basic Trauma Life Support, fourth edition. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 Dave, I would reply to your post affirmatively but it might offend someone so all I will say is " AMEN " . Thank you, In a message dated Thu, 12 Oct 2000 2:15:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, " Dave " writes: << Andy: I'm sorry, but you are dead wrong. Experience alone does not relieve ignorance. A man can have been a paramedic for 15 years and can have grown or progressed not at all in that time. For three of the individuals I mentioned that is pretty much it. The only reason they are able to continue as paramedics is the desperate needs of the volunteer services with which they have been affiliated. I see no evidence that their time with a patch has made them sharper or significantly more knowledgeable. I have seen some evidence that this condition exists all over the state, although I fervently hope this type of medic is an exception rather than a rule. Should those of us who want our profession respected and elevated, and who have taken the personal steps needed to achieve that, embrace these people who represent everything negative nurses and many physicians attribute to all of us? No, I say. They are holding us back. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. It we smile indulgently and let 'em be, most of them will never change and will never grow. They'll continue to give us a black eye for years. The other thing you are dead wrong about is the thing about them being my colleagues. Much as I'd prefer not to claim them, they wear the word paramedic and the outline of Texas on their patch just as I do. They have the same practicing parameters I do. Every action they take has the potential to permanently affect my future and that of all the rest of us. They are my colleagues. They are yours, They are Gene Gandy's. They are colleagues of us all and what they don't know, haven't learned, and don't think they need to learn or know can do all of us serious injury. I'd advance that they already have. I daresay the (former) UTMB paramedics would agree with me. Wake up and realize its time for these people to grow, die, or get out of the way. I for one am tired of all the sob stories and excuses these people hand out for why they can't go out and get a decent education. For every one of them that can hand out a Top Ten Reasons Why Not list, there is one or more of us, including moi, who can match every one of their obstacles and yet we managed to earn the sheep skin and we use what we learned to do a better job. Little money, nearest college 75 miles away, 3 kids, whatever the excuse, it comes down to one of two things. Either they don't have enough faith in themselves to try, or they don't have enough guts and initiative to buckle down and work hard. I imagine I'll get nuked for saying the things I've said but the fact is every time one of these characters puts another monkey wrench in the process of elevating the minimum education standards for paramedics in Texas so they can continue to play ny-an'-Roy a little longer it does harm to me, my family, and all the other medics in this state who are trying to move us into a better future. Don't expect tolerance or forbearance from me on this issue. Its like what happened between the old, obsolete dinosaurs and the more advanced, more savvy mammals. Guess who won. Dave Note: Shield up and at maximum. Flame away, you dinosaurs, while you can. The asteroid is on the way. Re: [texasems-L] Fwd: Rapid Transport > In a message dated 10/12/2000 09:34:44 AM Central Daylight Time, > d.jackson@... writes: > > << The sad thing is I know some Texas medics from > which that post would have to be taken seriously. We do have some colleagues > who seem to revel in their lack of education and in their ignorance. >> > > You see, no one has yet to argue that education is the key, but we still are > downgrading our COLLEAGUES as reveling in their ignorance. I am just saying > that they are not ignorant nor or you their colleague if you refer to them > this way. I only hope you understand what you are saying when you write > these posts. We Love Education. OK but some do not have it and they are > excellent 15 yr paramedics at a high level EMS system that do understand more > that you sound like you give them credit for. No wonder you cannot get them > to join you. Please read what you write and think of all of us as partners in > creating a better educated Paramedic. Thx for your consideration. > > Andy Foote > > > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 Howdy ! I think I understand your meaning, but I don't think we can really look at education as an end. I see is as a continuing process we will be actively involved in for the rest of our lives. One of the great things about education (at least IMHO) is it helps me continue to grow. I'd really hate to think that my knowledge base and perspective would be the same in 10 years as it is now. Anyway, I look at it much more from a means/process standpoint rather than an end. Again, this isn't intended to contradict your point. I just wanted to expand it a bit. Take care, Jeff Re: [texasems-L] Fwd: Rapid Transport Education is an end in itself. EMS will not be regarded by others as a profession until we are educated as a whole. I don't think Mr. Gandy intended to insult anyone, or compare the intelligence of LP vs. EMT-P. --- LloydEMTI@... wrote: > << Good Lord, Man, you suggestin by yore post that > Paramedics need to know > terms like " hemanopsia " and " ataxia? " You must be > one of them " edjikated > fools " like some folks here in Texiz are awantin > us to be > > I for one do not think Gene was trying to be > negative about anyone's > understanding of words we were taught in class. I > think he was trying to be > humorous and at the same time point out that some of > us may have forgotten > them and that it shows more professionalism on a > report if we use these words > in place of the common everyday words. By the way, > Gene, gotta look up > hemanopsia unless you give me the meaning. " Hema " > means blood " an or a " > means without and but what does the " opsia " mean? > Not fooling around, and > not too proud to ask for help! Any chance it means > without blood? Just call > me confused or best of all STUMPED! Got to go look > it up! > > Glenda > > Glenda > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 In a message dated 10/12/00 1:58:00 PM Central Daylight Time, barry.sharp@... writes: << What would this learned group say to an implementation of higher standards to become a medic if it were phased in? Current medics would still be medics, but the new ones would be required to have higher academic standards to get into the game. This would accomplish both raising the bar for the profession and would still allow current practitioners to still practice. >> I think this would be a great idea, even though my opinion is not worth much. You got my vote! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 Andy: I'm sorry, but you are dead wrong. Experience alone does not relieve ignorance. A man can have been a paramedic for 15 years and can have grown or progressed not at all in that time. For three of the individuals I mentioned that is pretty much it. The only reason they are able to continue as paramedics is the desperate needs of the volunteer services with which they have been affiliated. I see no evidence that their time with a patch has made them sharper or significantly more knowledgeable. I have seen some evidence that this condition exists all over the state, although I fervently hope this type of medic is an exception rather than a rule. Should those of us who want our profession respected and elevated, and who have taken the personal steps needed to achieve that, embrace these people who represent everything negative nurses and many physicians attribute to all of us? No, I say. They are holding us back. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. It we smile indulgently and let 'em be, most of them will never change and will never grow. They'll continue to give us a black eye for years. The other thing you are dead wrong about is the thing about them being my colleagues. Much as I'd prefer not to claim them, they wear the word paramedic and the outline of Texas on their patch just as I do. They have the same practicing parameters I do. Every action they take has the potential to permanently affect my future and that of all the rest of us. They are my colleagues. They are yours, They are Gene Gandy's. They are colleagues of us all and what they don't know, haven't learned, and don't think they need to learn or know can do all of us serious injury. I'd advance that they already have. I daresay the (former) UTMB paramedics would agree with me. Wake up and realize its time for these people to grow, die, or get out of the way. I for one am tired of all the sob stories and excuses these people hand out for why they can't go out and get a decent education. For every one of them that can hand out a Top Ten Reasons Why Not list, there is one or more of us, including moi, who can match every one of their obstacles and yet we managed to earn the sheep skin and we use what we learned to do a better job. Little money, nearest college 75 miles away, 3 kids, whatever the excuse, it comes down to one of two things. Either they don't have enough faith in themselves to try, or they don't have enough guts and initiative to buckle down and work hard. I imagine I'll get nuked for saying the things I've said but the fact is every time one of these characters puts another monkey wrench in the process of elevating the minimum education standards for paramedics in Texas so they can continue to play ny-an'-Roy a little longer it does harm to me, my family, and all the other medics in this state who are trying to move us into a better future. Don't expect tolerance or forbearance from me on this issue. Its like what happened between the old, obsolete dinosaurs and the more advanced, more savvy mammals. Guess who won. Dave Note: Shield up and at maximum. Flame away, you dinosaurs, while you can. The asteroid is on the way. Re: [texasems-L] Fwd: Rapid Transport > In a message dated 10/12/2000 09:34:44 AM Central Daylight Time, > d.jackson@... writes: > > << The sad thing is I know some Texas medics from > which that post would have to be taken seriously. We do have some colleagues > who seem to revel in their lack of education and in their ignorance. >> > > You see, no one has yet to argue that education is the key, but we still are > downgrading our COLLEAGUES as reveling in their ignorance. I am just saying > that they are not ignorant nor or you their colleague if you refer to them > this way. I only hope you understand what you are saying when you write > these posts. We Love Education. OK but some do not have it and they are > excellent 15 yr paramedics at a high level EMS system that do understand more > that you sound like you give them credit for. No wonder you cannot get them > to join you. Please read what you write and think of all of us as partners in > creating a better educated Paramedic. Thx for your consideration. > > Andy Foote > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 : Thanks at least for the AMEN, but don't you think its time we stopped worrying so much about offending people who don't like to hear the truth and prefer the peace of the ostrich? I don't want to attack anyone as a person or offend them as a person, but with regard to EMS and the EMS profession, I think we have to draw a line in the sand somewhere or we will never solve these issues. That unfortunately means denouncing medics that don't live up to the kind of standard necessary to move us forward. Its that old saying, " If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem, " come to life. Anyway, its nice the first response was not the expected H-bomb. I have a feeling my dosimeter is going to look a lot like Gandy's for a week or so. Dave Re: [texasems-L] Fwd: Rapid Transport > > > > In a message dated 10/12/2000 09:34:44 AM Central Daylight Time, > > d.jackson@... writes: > > > > << The sad thing is I know some Texas medics from > > which that post would have to be taken seriously. We do have some > colleagues > > who seem to revel in their lack of education and in their ignorance. >> > > > > You see, no one has yet to argue that education is the key, but we still > are > > downgrading our COLLEAGUES as reveling in their ignorance. I am just > saying > > that they are not ignorant nor or you their colleague if you refer to them > > this way. I only hope you understand what you are saying when you write > > these posts. We Love Education. OK but some do not have it and they are > > excellent 15 yr paramedics at a high level EMS system that do understand > more > > that you sound like you give them credit for. No wonder you cannot get > them > > to join you. Please read what you write and think of all of us as partners > in > > creating a better educated Paramedic. Thx for your consideration. > > > > Andy Foote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 That is what that means. Education being an end in itself means that it never ends, because there is always more to learn and discover. I totally agree with you, and in my opinion, education is one of the most important things in life. I also think that paramedics will never be regarded as a true profession, until we are all on the same level. This level is unfortunately a ways from where we are currently. Cosper, LP, MD2B --- Jeff Jarvis wrote: > Howdy ! > > I think I understand your meaning, but I don't think > we can really look at > education as an end. I see is as a continuing > process we will be actively > involved in for the rest of our lives. One of the > great things about > education (at least IMHO) is it helps me continue to > grow. I'd really hate > to think that my knowledge base and perspective > would be the same in 10 > years as it is now. Anyway, I look at it much more > from a means/process > standpoint rather than an end. > > Again, this isn't intended to contradict your point. > I just wanted to expand > it a bit. > > Take care, > Jeff > > Re: [texasems-L] Fwd: Rapid Transport > > > Education is an end in itself. EMS will not be > regarded by others as a profession until we are > educated as a whole. I don't think Mr. Gandy > intended > to insult anyone, or compare the intelligence of LP > vs. EMT-P. > > > --- LloydEMTI@... wrote: > > << Good Lord, Man, you suggestin by yore post > that > > Paramedics need to know > > terms like " hemanopsia " and " ataxia? " You must > be > > one of them " edjikated > > fools " like some folks here in Texiz are awantin > > us to be > > > > I for one do not think Gene was trying to be > > negative about anyone's > > understanding of words we were taught in class. I > > think he was trying to be > > humorous and at the same time point out that some > of > > us may have forgotten > > them and that it shows more professionalism on a > > report if we use these words > > in place of the common everyday words. By the > way, > > Gene, gotta look up > > hemanopsia unless you give me the meaning. " Hema " > > means blood " an or a " > > means without and but what does the " opsia " mean? > > Not fooling around, and > > not too proud to ask for help! Any chance it > means > > without blood? Just call > > me confused or best of all STUMPED! Got to go > look > > it up! > > > > Glenda > > > > Glenda > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 Barry: That's pretty much what I'd like to see happen. We can't fairly raise the standards retroactively for the folks already out there. That really would cause chaos. But we could set up conditions to gradually phase out the older standard as the old medics hang it up by making all new candidates meet new academic and EMS curriculum minimums to earn initial certification. Actually, the license has that stairstep escalation of minimal standards already built into it, which arrangement is very similar to what I think should happen EMS-wide. Dave Re: [texasems-L] Fwd: Rapid Transport > > > > In a message dated 10/12/2000 09:34:44 AM Central Daylight Time, > > d.jackson@... writes: > > > > << The sad thing is I know some Texas medics from > > which that post would have to be taken seriously. We do have some > colleagues > > who seem to revel in their lack of education and in their ignorance. >> > > > > You see, no one has yet to argue that education is the key, but we still > are > > downgrading our COLLEAGUES as reveling in their ignorance. I am just > saying > > that they are not ignorant nor or you their colleague if you refer to them > > this way. I only hope you understand what you are saying when you write > > these posts. We Love Education. OK but some do not have it and they are > > excellent 15 yr paramedics at a high level EMS system that do understand > more > > that you sound like you give them credit for. No wonder you cannot get > them > > to join you. Please read what you write and think of all of us as partners > in > > creating a better educated Paramedic. Thx for your consideration. > > > > Andy Foote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Barry Sharp, MSHP, EMT, CHES > Education Specialist > Office of Tobacco Prevention & Control > Texas Department of Health > barry.sharp@... > > Check out the coolest tobacco sites on the web: > www.ducktexas.com > www.dontgetburned.com > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 Jim: You, sir are a mammal. Dave Re: [texasems-L] Fwd: Rapid Transport > > > > In a message dated 10/12/2000 09:34:44 AM Central Daylight Time, > > d.jackson@... writes: > > > > << The sad thing is I know some Texas medics from > > which that post would have to be taken seriously. We do have some > colleagues > > who seem to revel in their lack of education and in their ignorance. >> > > > > You see, no one has yet to argue that education is the key, but we still > are > > downgrading our COLLEAGUES as reveling in their ignorance. I am just > saying > > that they are not ignorant nor or you their colleague if you refer to them > > this way. I only hope you understand what you are saying when you write > > these posts. We Love Education. OK but some do not have it and they are > > excellent 15 yr paramedics at a high level EMS system that do understand > more > > that you sound like you give them credit for. No wonder you cannot get > them > > to join you. Please read what you write and think of all of us as partners > in > > creating a better educated Paramedic. Thx for your consideration. > > > > Andy Foote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eGroups Sponsor > <http://click./1/9667/9/_/4981/_/971374234/> > <http://click./1/9667/9/_/4981/_/971374234/> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 I'm sorry you feel that way. Yes and there are probably more like you that have not understood a word I said. There are too many ME's in the way. I guess I am like the old sarge they tried to make an officer. I will never wear an LP, even with my degree, because of people like you. You must admit, you will GIVE me one for $100 and my BS degree in Sociology. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 In a message dated Thu, 12 Oct 2000 5:40:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rachfoote@... writes: << I'm sorry you feel that way. Yes and there are probably more like you that have not understood a word I said. There are too many ME's in the way. I guess I am like the old sarge they tried to make an officer. I will never wear an LP, even with my degree, because of people like you. You must admit, you will GIVE me one for $100 and my BS degree in Sociology. Andy I think you missed the point that several people have been trying to convey. By obtaining your BS degree in Sociology you showed discipline, intestinal fortitude, research, interest of self-betterment, a desire to learn, and much much more. For this effort, you, sir, have made yourself a better person and a better EMS provider. You are to be commended. >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 Barry, Wasn't this idea put forth to the Legislators last year? I think it is a really good idea, but I don't know what happend to it. Maybe Jarvis knows!!! Stay safe, Wiseman Re: [texasems-L] Fwd: Rapid Transport > > > > In a message dated 10/12/2000 09:34:44 AM Central Daylight Time, > > d.jackson@... writes: > > > > << The sad thing is I know some Texas medics from > > which that post would have to be taken seriously. We do have some > colleagues > > who seem to revel in their lack of education and in their ignorance. >> > > > > You see, no one has yet to argue that education is the key, but we still > are > > downgrading our COLLEAGUES as reveling in their ignorance. I am just > saying > > that they are not ignorant nor or you their colleague if you refer to them > > this way. I only hope you understand what you are saying when you write > > these posts. We Love Education. OK but some do not have it and they are > > excellent 15 yr paramedics at a high level EMS system that do understand > more > > that you sound like you give them credit for. No wonder you cannot get > them > > to join you. Please read what you write and think of all of us as partners > in > > creating a better educated Paramedic. Thx for your consideration. > > > > Andy Foote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Barry Sharp, MSHP, EMT, CHES > Education Specialist > Office of Tobacco Prevention & Control > Texas Department of Health > barry.sharp@... > > Check out the coolest tobacco sites on the web: > www.ducktexas.com > www.dontgetburned.com > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 Howdy and Barry! Yes, that was proposed but never made it into legislation or regulation. I can certainly understand the feelings of those with a great deal of experience, but little formal education when they hear that people are proposing to require a degree to be a paramedic (BTW, this IS NOT A CURRENT PROPOSAL). I think the key thing everyone should understand, however, is that this would only affect those who are entering the profession, not those who have already proved their competency. It wouldn't affect current medics at all. And it shouldn't. Further, those who enter the profession with a degree should have the decency and self-awareness to stifle the impulses of youth to look at those who came before them with condescension. There is clearly value in experience. Actually, it probably would affect existing medics who stick around a little longer because eventually salaries, working conditions and professional recognition will improve for everyone. In my experience, the people who were opposing this weren't street medics. It was the employers who opposed it because they were afraid it would make it more difficult to hire paramedics. Specifically, they were afraid that paramedics would demand to be paid what they were worth. Clearly, employers will probably have a different perspective on this, but that's certainly the way I saw it. Take care, Jeff Re: [texasems-L] Fwd: Rapid Transport Barry, Wasn't this idea put forth to the Legislators last year? I think it is a really good idea, but I don't know what happend to it. Maybe Jarvis knows!!! Stay safe, Wiseman Re: [texasems-L] Fwd: Rapid Transport > > > > In a message dated 10/12/2000 09:34:44 AM Central Daylight Time, > > d.jackson@... writes: > > > > << The sad thing is I know some Texas medics from > > which that post would have to be taken seriously. We do have some > colleagues > > who seem to revel in their lack of education and in their ignorance. >> > > > > You see, no one has yet to argue that education is the key, but we still > are > > downgrading our COLLEAGUES as reveling in their ignorance. I am just > saying > > that they are not ignorant nor or you their colleague if you refer to them > > this way. I only hope you understand what you are saying when you write > > these posts. We Love Education. OK but some do not have it and they are > > excellent 15 yr paramedics at a high level EMS system that do understand > more > > that you sound like you give them credit for. No wonder you cannot get > them > > to join you. Please read what you write and think of all of us as partners > in > > creating a better educated Paramedic. Thx for your consideration. > > > > Andy Foote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Barry Sharp, MSHP, EMT, CHES > Education Specialist > Office of Tobacco Prevention & Control > Texas Department of Health > barry.sharp@... > > Check out the coolest tobacco sites on the web: > www.ducktexas.com > www.dontgetburned.com > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 What would this learned group say to an implementation of higher standards to become a medic if it were phased in? Current medics would still be medics, but the new ones would be required to have higher academic standards to get into the game. This would accomplish both raising the bar for the profession and would still allow current practioners to still practice. If it did like nursing, then those with the more advanced skills would move up in the food chain and into new opportunities and those who wanted to move up could get with the new standards to open the same doors to them. Those who were comfortable at where they were could stay there and continue to be a great whatever they are doing the things they like doing. To: <egroups> From: RaaEMS605@... Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:45:16 EDT Reply-to: egroups Subject: Re: [texasems-L] Fwd: Rapid Transport Dave, I would reply to your post affirmatively but it might offend someone so all I will say is " AMEN " . Thank you, In a message dated Thu, 12 Oct 2000 2:15:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, " Dave " writes: << Andy: I'm sorry, but you are dead wrong. Experience alone does not relieve ignorance. A man can have been a paramedic for 15 years and can have grown or progressed not at all in that time. For three of the individuals I mentioned that is pretty much it. The only reason they are able to continue as paramedics is the desperate needs of the volunteer services with which they have been affiliated. I see no evidence that their time with a patch has made them sharper or significantly more knowledgeable. I have seen some evidence that this condition exists all over the state, although I fervently hope this type of medic is an exception rather than a rule. Should those of us who want our profession respected and elevated, and who have taken the personal steps needed to achieve that, embrace these people who represent everything negative nurses and many physicians attribute to all of us? No, I say. They are holding us back. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. It we smile indulgently and let 'em be, most of them will never change and will never grow. They'll continue to give us a black eye for years. The other thing you are dead wrong about is the thing about them being my colleagues. Much as I'd prefer not to claim them, they wear the word paramedic and the outline of Texas on their patch just as I do. They have the same practicing parameters I do. Every action they take has the potential to permanently affect my future and that of all the rest of us. They are my colleagues. They are yours, They are Gene Gandy's. They are colleagues of us all and what they don't know, haven't learned, and don't think they need to learn or know can do all of us serious injury. I'd advance that they already have. I daresay the (former) UTMB paramedics would agree with me. Wake up and realize its time for these people to grow, die, or get out of the way. I for one am tired of all the sob stories and excuses these people hand out for why they can't go out and get a decent education. For every one of them that can hand out a Top Ten Reasons Why Not list, there is one or more of us, including moi, who can match every one of their obstacles and yet we managed to earn the sheep skin and we use what we learned to do a better job. Little money, nearest college 75 miles away, 3 kids, whatever the excuse, it comes down to one of two things. Either they don't have enough faith in themselves to try, or they don't have enough guts and initiative to buckle down and work hard. I imagine I'll get nuked for saying the things I've said but the fact is every time one of these characters puts another monkey wrench in the process of elevating the minimum education standards for paramedics in Texas so they can continue to play ny-an'-Roy a little longer it does harm to me, my family, and all the other medics in this state who are trying to move us into a better future. Don't expect tolerance or forbearance from me on this issue. Its like what happened between the old, obsolete dinosaurs and the more advanced, more savvy mammals. Guess who won. Dave Note: Shield up and at maximum. Flame away, you dinosaurs, while you can. The asteroid is on the way. Re: [texasems-L] Fwd: Rapid Transport > In a message dated 10/12/2000 09:34:44 AM Central Daylight Time, > d.jackson@... writes: > > << The sad thing is I know some Texas medics from > which that post would have to be taken seriously. We do have some colleagues > who seem to revel in their lack of education and in their ignorance. >> > > You see, no one has yet to argue that education is the key, but we still are > downgrading our COLLEAGUES as reveling in their ignorance. I am just saying > that they are not ignorant nor or you their colleague if you refer to them > this way. I only hope you understand what you are saying when you write > these posts. We Love Education. OK but some do not have it and they are > excellent 15 yr paramedics at a high level EMS system that do understand more > that you sound like you give them credit for. No wonder you cannot get them > to join you. Please read what you write and think of all of us as partners in > creating a better educated Paramedic. Thx for your consideration. > > Andy Foote > > > > > >> Barry Sharp, MSHP, EMT, CHES Education Specialist Office of Tobacco Prevention & Control Texas Department of Health barry.sharp@... Check out the coolest tobacco sites on the web: www.ducktexas.com www.dontgetburned.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 , I like that MD2B thingy behind your name. P. McClanahan, Paramedic Forever Re: [texasems-L] Fwd: Rapid Transport > > > > > > Education is an end in itself. EMS will not be > > regarded by others as a profession until we are > > educated as a whole. I don't think Mr. Gandy > > intended > > to insult anyone, or compare the intelligence of LP > > vs. EMT-P. > > > > > > --- LloydEMTI@... wrote: > > > << Good Lord, Man, you suggestin by yore post > > that > > > Paramedics need to know > > > terms like " hemanopsia " and " ataxia? " You must > > be > > > one of them " edjikated > > > fools " like some folks here in Texiz are awantin > > > us to be > > > > > > I for one do not think Gene was trying to be > > > negative about anyone's > > > understanding of words we were taught in class. I > > > think he was trying to be > > > humorous and at the same time point out that some > > of > > > us may have forgotten > > > them and that it shows more professionalism on a > > > report if we use these words > > > in place of the common everyday words. By the > > way, > > > Gene, gotta look up > > > hemanopsia unless you give me the meaning. " Hema " > > > means blood " an or a " > > > means without and but what does the " opsia " mean? > > > Not fooling around, and > > > not too proud to ask for help! Any chance it > > means > > > without blood? Just call > > > me confused or best of all STUMPED! Got to go > > look > > > it up! > > > > > > Glenda > > > > > > Glenda > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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