Re: Adrenal stress index results.

September 15, 2006

>>Descreption result reference values

free cortisol rhythm

0700:-8:00am 9 depressed 13-24nM

11:00-noon 5 normal 5-10nM

04:00-05:00 4 normal 3-8nM

11:00-midnight 4 normal 1-4nM

cortisol burden 22 23-42

dhea pooled value 5 normal adults(m/f):3-10 ng/ml<<

OK while these are by far not the worst labs I have seen, they are pretty low.

Low enough I think you can forget healing wiht glandulars adn should go straight

to HC. Is your doctor willing to treat with Hydrocortisone?

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

September 15, 2006

>

> >>Descreption result reference values

> free cortisol rhythm

> 0700:-8:00am 9 depressed 13-24nM

> 11:00-noon 5 normal 5-10nM

> 04:00-05:00 4 normal 3-8nM

> 11:00-midnight 4 normal 1-4nM

>

> cortisol burden 22 23-42

>

> dhea pooled value 5 normal adults(m/f):3-10 ng/ml<<

>

> OK while these are by far not the worst labs I have seen, they are

pretty low. Low enough I think you can forget healing wiht

glandulars adn should go straight to HC. Is your doctor willing to

treat with Hydrocortisone?

>

> -- Right now i technically don't have a doctor,the only doctor

that was willing to listen,basically because i was paying him,has

shown little interest in treating me,and frankly i cannot afford to

pay him,as he does not acept health insurance,and all treatments

including visits have to be payed for out of pocket.

I am basically trying to figue out what's more financially

ensible,either treat the symptoms,or trat the most likely cause of

them,or most chronic.f i show you my heavy metal screen you will see

why i had to have the dental work done over paying the doctor to

treat my ailments.

My dental work is totally over $10,000,and my insurnce pays $2,000

for the year,i already spent about $2,500 to the doctor just for

silly tests that were pointless and visits.Some of the test were

beneficial i must add.

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

> My Ebay Jewelry Store

http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

September 15, 2006

>

> We have sources to order HC without a script, but I can't seem to

get an

> email through to you. Can you send me another email address that is

> working? We do not give sources out over the list to protect them.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

> My Ebay Jewelry Store

http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

Sorry i have change internet service provider,e-mal address is

yelorado@...

September 15, 2006

Hamerreda3,

It looks like your labs were a standard ASI panel from Diagnos-Techs

of Kent, WA.

You do have adrenal fatigue, based on depressed AM levels, and they

appear to correspond roughly to stage 4 of adrenal exhaustion, but I

think it would better if an expert interpreted these results for

you. Almost always, adrenal fatigue is the result of unremitting

stresses, and the cortisol levels will often be elevated for quite

awhile (stages 1-3) to cope with the stresses before eventually

becoming depressed (stages 4-7). That is certainly my personal

experience...5+ years of big-time stress finally pummeled my

adrenals into submission and full-blown chronic fatigue syndrome.

You can learn more here:

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%20Normal.html

(be sure to use the links at the bottom of each page to jump to the

various consecutive stages of adrenal fatigue)

Here is what I suggest:

1. You are probably not going to find a doc that takes insurance

that will know how to interpret these results, or even subscribe to

the notion that there is such a condition known as " adrenal

fatigue. " If you go to 3 " insurance " doctors, and strike out at all

3, that is easily $50 out-of-pocket just for your co-pays @ $15 a

pop. Basically, you'll be spending $50 to have people riducule you

and question your sanity rather than help you get well. I don't

know about you, but that's not how I prefer to spend my money.

2. For that same $50, you could schedule a 25-minute consultation

with somebody that can interpret the results and tell you what to

do. I am working with an ND by the name of Dr. Neville and

he can be reached at and charges $2/min for phone

consultations. I can personnally attest that it is worth every

penny. He will help you understand how severe your adrenal fatigue

is, and what you can take to correct the condition. They work

exclusively with the ASI tests from the lab you used, so you would

not have to re-do any tests.

I wish there were ways to get help without spending anything, or by

remaining inside the " insurance system " , but I have slowly come to

the conclusion that the " conventional "

doctor/lab/insurance/pharmaceutical system is so broken that it can

not be relied upon to really help people with chronic conditions.

They'll just nickel and time you to death at $25 per copay, and

after a year of dozens of visits, labs, and Rxs, you'll have nothing

to show for it in the way of improved health. Sore throats and

broken bones, perhaps. But the tough stuff like chronic illnesses

and unwellness? They really are clueless.

For $15, I heartily recommend this book:

http://www.guidance.org/store/product121.html

I am about halfway through it and it is EXCELLENT. Don't let the

title fool you...it is really a book about adrenal fatigue since

chronic fatigue and adrenal fatigue are one and the same. The main

reason the author uses the term " chronic fatigue " is because it is

the term that is recognized by conventional docs / insurance

companies (they have a diagnostic code for it...that never used to

be the case). If you go in presenting with " chronic fatigue " at

least they won't throw you out of the office, but they won't have

any answers for you either. If you go in presenting with " adrenal

fatigue " they will either tell you they have never heard of it, or

they'll get uppity and ask " who's the doctor here. "

I've had enough of that abuse, so started seeking out people that

could genuinely help me.

I'm sorry I couldn't be more encouraging with the whole

insurance/doctor thing, but I really think that the following

expenditures can have you well on your way to wholeness, especially

since you have already shelled out the $150 or so for the saliva

test:

-$15 for a book that will help you REALLY understand what adrenal

fatigue is and what you can do about it. This puppy is worth its

weight in gold.

- $50 for a consultation with someone that has extensive experience

understanding and treating adrenal fatigue.

-$50/mo for the meds/supplements recommended. Some of which (such

as hydrocortisone) may be covered by insurance.

I realize this forum is primarily for those with both Thyroid and

Adrenal issues, but the truth is that thyroid problems are many

times the result of an underfunctioning adrenal system. It is

generally recommended that people get their adrenals in shape before

assuming that they need to tackle their thyroid as well. Not always

(but often) thyroid issues will self-correct once the adrenals are

back to normal.

--Steve

>

> I forgot to add the results to the last post,this test was done a

> few months prior.

> I know it will probably be different if tested today,as i have

been

> having alot of dental work done for the past few months includinga

> painful extraction,also please note that i am suspected to be

> hypoglycemic.

>

> Descreption result reference values

> free cortisol rhythm

> 0700:-8:00am 9 depressed 13-24nM

> 11:00-noon 5 normal 5-10nM

> 04:00-05:00 4 normal 3-8nM

> 11:00-midnight 4 normal 1-4nM

>

> cortisol burden 22 23-42

>

> dhea pooled value 5 normal adults(m/f):3-10 ng/ml

>

> isn insulin

> fasting <3 normal:3-12 uIu/ml

> post-prandial <3 depressed optimal:5-20 uIU/ml

>

> p17-0h progestorone 30 normal Adults

> optimal:22-100 pg/ml

> borderline:101-130 pg/ml

> elevated:>130 pg/ml

>

> mb2s totalsalivarysiga 13 depressed normal:25-60 mg/dl

> borderline:20-25 mg/dl

>

September 15, 2006

Hamerreda3,

Although your levels look relatively normal except for AM cortisol,

it may seem counter-intuitive that you are in a more advanced stage

of adrenal fatigue. But the other numbers in your labs tell the

story...your DHEA is borderline low, your insulin is low, and your

total salivary IGA is low. This is all indicative of a body that

has spiked their cortisol levels for an extended period of time and

is now depleting the rest of their system in a futile attempt to

keep fueling high cortisol levels to cope with the stresses in their

life. Often, the stresses of your symptoms are enough to keep

you " wound up " ... that was certainly the case with me. I was

stressed about feeling so sick all the time...and it, in turn, was

keeping me sick! It is a vicious cycle. In the book I am reading,

he refers to it as " a beast that thrives on its own

excrement " ...disgusting comparison, but very accurate.

The book I mentioned in my previous post goes into all of this in

detail. It's the best $15 you'll ever spend if you are suffering

with adrenal fatigue.

(and no, I receive no profits from the sale of the book...I'm just a

really, really satisfied customer who is excited about what I've

learned and how I've been able to start helping myself get better as

a result)

--Steve

> >

> > I forgot to add the results to the last post,this test was done

a

> > few months prior.

> > I know it will probably be different if tested today,as i have

> been

> > having alot of dental work done for the past few months

includinga

> > painful extraction,also please note that i am suspected to be

> > hypoglycemic.

> >

> > Descreption result reference values

> > free cortisol rhythm

> > 0700:-8:00am 9 depressed 13-24nM

> > 11:00-noon 5 normal 5-10nM

> > 04:00-05:00 4 normal 3-8nM

> > 11:00-midnight 4 normal 1-4nM

> >

> > cortisol burden 22 23-42

> >

> > dhea pooled value 5 normal adults(m/f):3-10 ng/ml

> >

> > isn insulin

> > fasting <3 normal:3-12 uIu/ml

> > post-prandial <3 depressed optimal:5-20 uIU/ml

> >

> > p17-0h progestorone 30 normal Adults

> > optimal:22-100 pg/ml

> > borderline:101-130 pg/ml

> > elevated:>130 pg/ml

> >

> > mb2s totalsalivarysiga 13 depressed normal:25-60 mg/dl

> > borderline:20-25 mg/dl

> >

>

September 15, 2006

>

> >>I realize this forum is primarily for those with both Thyroid

and

> Adrenal issues, but the truth is that thyroid problems are many

> times the result of an under functioning adrenal system. <<

>

> Sorry but I gotta disagree with ya here Steve. I have only ONCE or

twice in all the years I have been studying adrenal/thyroid issues

found anyone that had JUST adrenal problems without thyroid. MUCh of

the adrenal fatigue we see on this list comes from years of no

treatment or under treatment of their thyroid disease. Then, I am

sure, the same things in the environment that attack the adrenals

also attack the thyroid and it becomes a case of which came first,

which really doesn't matter. The Fluoride, chlorine and estrogens in

our water and foods are destroying our endocrine systems.. adrenals

& thyroid (and other endo organs) alike. So to raise hopes that

curing the adrenals will also fix the thyroid problems I just can't

do.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

> My Ebay Jewelry Store

http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>Thank both valerie and steve for thier input,and suggestions,i

really appreciate it,i have already wrote off main stream doctors

totally about a year ago.

If i kept listening,and taking their advice,i will be dead very

soon,you saw my lab results,well these same doctors say i am

fine,and in perfect health.

Those labs results are nothing,if you saw my screen for heavy metals

your jaws would probably drop to the floor,but that's awhole other

issue,as i am already addressing that,but the adrenal/thyroid issue

has to be dealt with real soon so i can have a better quality of

life.

I will check out that book steve,and i may even give the doc a call.

I think i should probably do an updated asi panel,as those are a few

months old,and i think my condition has worstened since then.

Well i am gonna have a cup of licorice root tea before bed

tonight,and who knows it may help me feel better in the morning.

September 16, 2006

Perhaps...but I have a saying: " When you are a hammer, everything

looks like a nail. " I have tended to approach the whole situation

from a purely adrenal perspective because my symptoms are purely

adrenal. I don't have thyroid-related symptoms, even though I

wouldn't be surprised if my thyroid was tested and showed some

abnormalities.

I specifically asked Dr. Neville about this last week. Here is the

way he explained it to me:

" Your thyroid is like an engine...your adrenals like the gas/oil.

When you have inferior gas, or the wrong grade of oil, you will

almost always have engine problems...so thyroid symptoms and adrenal

symptoms do almost always go hand-in-hand. But often, the thyroid

is *responding* to the adrenals...not vice-versa. We generally try

to get the fuel/oil right before assuming that the engine needs to

be 'fixed'. It is hard to even troubleshoot the engine without the

right fuel/oil because you don't always know what is 'cause' and

what is 'effect.' Is the engine knocking because the fuel is

deficient, or is the engine knocking because it has good fuel and

simply needs new spark plugs? So, we generally treat the adrenals

first, unless there are symptoms that are clearly thyroid and

relatively independent of adrenal. "

So, I don't think anyone is suggesting that thyroid problems are

independent of adrenals, or that fixing the adrenals will always

rememdy an underlying thyroid problem, or even that in the majority

of cases people will only have adrenal symptoms without thyroid

symptoms. I simply remain of the opinion that " many " (not necessary

most, and certainly not all) adrenal issues are just that...adrenal

issues...and the thyroid will self-correct once the adrenals are

healed. That's why I chose the word " many " in my post...rather

than " most " or " all. "

For those of you old enough to remember old " analog " TV sets with

lots of dials, there were about a dozen that you could turn at once,

which could really mess of the picture...vertical hold, horizontal

hold, etc. I'm simply suggesting that I prefer to tune one thing at

a time rather than all the knobs at once. As it was explained to

me, the thyroid tends to be more of a follower than a leader when it

comes to adrenal functioning. But each of us has to do what we

believe is right, based on our own symptoms, and my symptoms are

almost entirely adrenal...not thyroid.

I realize this is not the case for many people on this forum, and

you have come here primarily because of thyroid symptoms, with the

adrenals more of a " side benefit " that years of thyroid disfunction

have perhaps created. So, it could well be that I am in the

minority. If so, I stand corrected.