Re: Nurse/triage/sacrificies

[Guest guest]

OK, Tony,

First of all, as an educator I sure hope to don't spread this way of

thinking to your students....if you do please stop!! They will only have to

be reprogrammed once they are hired. Where do you teach? I would like to see

a Paramedic program that has more education then RN programs. Your right, we

(Paramedics) are required to attend much more CE then RN are. We also are

not REQUIRED to start off with the same education requirements as nurses are

either.

Nursing pay is all over the spectrum just like Paramedic's pay is. What is

paid in Houston/Dallas San/Austin for Paramedics is not the same as

East Texas or West Texas. I think we can all agree on that as seen in the

previous posting over the last 2-3 days. That again is a choice everyone

makes, where do you want to live, where do you want to work? If you want the

more money, then come to the places paying more!

So we make sacrifices to do our chosen profession....SO WHAT???? Nobody

cares about the sacrifices someone makes to do their job. That is a personal

decision and has no relevance to anything. Everybody in every job makes

sacrifices!!! Sounds more like a pity party...really helpful on the

profession stance!!

Nurses face much of the same risk we do. Needle sticks happen in hospitals

too, irate patient happen in hospitals too, shootings happen in hospitals

too, contagious disease are much more ramped in hospitals then in the back

of my ambulance.

If your looking for recognition for being a paramedic....get out. We want

paramedics that have a passion and a drive to care for people in need.

We all deserve pay raise....however, in Central Texas we are paying

Paramedics almost $20,000.00 more to start then the school teachers are paid

to start right out of College, it's all a matter of perspective.

K. Wiseman, EMT-P

Lieutenant

Station 806

bwiseman@...

" My thoughts are my own and are not reflective of my employer's beliefs. "

>

> You started something BIG!

>

> First, it's arrogant to think that nurse's have more education than

> paramedics. Many of us have college education above and beyond the

standard

> paramedic curriculum. Paramedics, as you should know are required to

attend

> much more CE than nurses.

>

> Second, nurses do get paid much better than paramedics on a overall basis.

> There are some exceptions and those exceptions are typically LVN's which

> have less training than paramedics.

>

> Third, the term sacrifice can be used in many aspects of EMS. Paramedics,

> do sacrifice family time and I tend to think more so than most other

> professions. Also, paramedics are placed in dangerous situations daily

> sometimes many times a day, how many times do you risk your life each day

in

> the hospital? Yes, a paramedic chose their career, however, it's high

time

> paramedics were recognized for what they do and get the pay we so rightly

> deserve.

>

> Be careful what you say! By the way, where do you work?

>

>

>

> Tony

> EMS Educator

> Re: [texasems-L] Where are the Paramedics?

> >

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hot and heavy about volunteering.

> > >

> > > I say it again...DO NOT VOLUNTEER. Make them pay you for what you

know.

> > > There is money and I assure you the first time someone dies because

> there

> > > was not a paramedic around (if that even matters) it will change.

> > >

> > > Have you ever picked up a newspaper and read about the child that died

> > > because there were no ambulance available. What do you really think

was

> > the

> > > end result. They added more ambulances and they found a way, they

> always

> > > do.

> > >

> > > I know some of you can sit and honestly say, that crap happens around

> your

> > > town every day but, still you try and push for more people and

equipment

> > and

> > > still your hit with the big " no " . Unfortunately, just you or I

meeting

> > > death still will not pave the way to that new truck. It must take

> someone

> > > like a county commissioner, county judge, city counsel person or some

> one

> > > with a hell of alot of money.

> > >

> > > By the way, how many nurses to you see volunteering their time. I

think

> we

> > > are the only profession that really puts our jobs before our families.

> Do

> > > we not care about them, too. Why is most of the world, after their

> > > education, start a family, buy a new home and live happy lives. But,

> > > paramedics, after education, find a another job (aside from the one

they

> > > really care about, EMS) and volunteer. Is it the Pager that excites

> > > everyone or maybe the discounts at the local Dairy Queen. What is it

> that

> > > make us VOLUNTEER. It must be a virus.

> > >

> > > However, before totally misunderstanding my POINT. I do not believe

> that

> > a

> > > city, county, or private paramedic is any better person or have better

> > > skills than a volunteer. I know and work with many volunteers who can

> run

> > > circles around this Paramedic. My point is DO NOT VOLUNTEER. MAKE

THEM

> > PAY

> > > YOU.

> > >

> > > P.S I supposed I really got off my original point about the low

salary.

> > > Raise the pay and you will get paramedic. Take make away from the

> doctors

> > > or something. hehehehe

> > >

> > > Come-on

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> _________________________________________________________________________

> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at

> http://www.hotmail.com.

> > >

> > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

> > > http://profiles.msn.com.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You started something BIG!

First, it's arrogant to think that nurse's have more education than

paramedics. Many of us have college education above and beyond the standard

paramedic curriculum. Paramedics, as you should know are required to attend

much more CE than nurses.

Second, nurses do get paid much better than paramedics on a overall basis.

There are some exceptions and those exceptions are typically LVN's which

have less training than paramedics.

Third, the term sacrifice can be used in many aspects of EMS. Paramedics,

do sacrifice family time and I tend to think more so than most other

professions. Also, paramedics are placed in dangerous situations daily

sometimes many times a day, how many times do you risk your life each day in

the hospital? Yes, a paramedic chose their career, however, it's high time

paramedics were recognized for what they do and get the pay we so rightly

deserve.

Be careful what you say! By the way, where do you work?

Tony

EMS Educator

Re: [texasems-L] Where are the Paramedics?

>

>

> >

> >

> > Hot and heavy about volunteering.

> >

> > I say it again...DO NOT VOLUNTEER. Make them pay you for what you know.

> > There is money and I assure you the first time someone dies because

there

> > was not a paramedic around (if that even matters) it will change.

> >

> > Have you ever picked up a newspaper and read about the child that died

> > because there were no ambulance available. What do you really think was

> the

> > end result. They added more ambulances and they found a way, they

always

> > do.

> >

> > I know some of you can sit and honestly say, that crap happens around

your

> > town every day but, still you try and push for more people and equipment

> and

> > still your hit with the big " no " . Unfortunately, just you or I meeting

> > death still will not pave the way to that new truck. It must take

someone

> > like a county commissioner, county judge, city counsel person or some

one

> > with a hell of alot of money.

> >

> > By the way, how many nurses to you see volunteering their time. I think

we

> > are the only profession that really puts our jobs before our families.

Do

> > we not care about them, too. Why is most of the world, after their

> > education, start a family, buy a new home and live happy lives. But,

> > paramedics, after education, find a another job (aside from the one they

> > really care about, EMS) and volunteer. Is it the Pager that excites

> > everyone or maybe the discounts at the local Dairy Queen. What is it

that

> > make us VOLUNTEER. It must be a virus.

> >

> > However, before totally misunderstanding my POINT. I do not believe

that

> a

> > city, county, or private paramedic is any better person or have better

> > skills than a volunteer. I know and work with many volunteers who can

run

> > circles around this Paramedic. My point is DO NOT VOLUNTEER. MAKE THEM

> PAY

> > YOU.

> >

> > P.S I supposed I really got off my original point about the low salary.

> > Raise the pay and you will get paramedic. Take make away from the

doctors

> > or something. hehehehe

> >

> > Come-on

> >

> >

> >

> >

_________________________________________________________________________

> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at

http://www.hotmail.com.

> >

> > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

> > http://profiles.msn.com.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dave's post needs reading. He is 99% correct in his views. The only thing

that's not accurate is that the City of Dallas had to pay big bucks for Nurse

Myrick's screwup. It did not. Because the survivors of the lady that Nurse

Billie Myrick wouldn't sent an ambulance for had an idiot for a lawyer who

didn't have a clue about how to go about suing a big city and they

essentially got nothing.

Also, today, because of so-called Tort Reform which has been foisted upon us

by people who have got a lot more money than us, people with a legitimate

damages inflicted by employees of a city can't get damages in proportion to

their losses.

Who wins here? The 6 figure salary bosses of HMOs and EMS systems which

won't be around next year win, but the paramedics don't. The paramedics

never do.

Gene G.

[Guest guest]

I was simply defending the paramedic position against a hostile attack by a

nurse.

Again, for the last time....I stated many paramedics have education above

and beyond that of the standard paramedic curriculum.

I do not appreciate nor do I find the wording you chose to use appropriate

regarding my comments.

We all need to work together to provide better patient treatment, improve

education, and weed out the people who cannot get with the system.

You simply restated everything that has been brought to the forefront on

this list server over and over again. I don't know why nurses and

paramedics are so hostile toward each other here in Texas.

I have seen an ER ran with one nurse, one physician and a large staff of

paramedics. It seemed to work quite well.

Anything else?

Tony

Re: [texasems-L] Where are the Paramedics?

> >

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hot and heavy about volunteering.

> > >

> > > I say it again...DO NOT VOLUNTEER. Make them pay you for what you

know.

> > > There is money and I assure you the first time someone dies because

> there

> > > was not a paramedic around (if that even matters) it will change.

> > >

> > > Have you ever picked up a newspaper and read about the child that died

> > > because there were no ambulance available. What do you really think

was

> > the

> > > end result. They added more ambulances and they found a way, they

> always

> > > do.

> > >

> > > I know some of you can sit and honestly say, that crap happens around

> your

> > > town every day but, still you try and push for more people and

equipment

> > and

> > > still your hit with the big " no " . Unfortunately, just you or I

meeting

> > > death still will not pave the way to that new truck. It must take

> someone

> > > like a county commissioner, county judge, city counsel person or some

> one

> > > with a hell of alot of money.

> > >

> > > By the way, how many nurses to you see volunteering their time. I

think

> we

> > > are the only profession that really puts our jobs before our families.

> Do

> > > we not care about them, too. Why is most of the world, after their

> > > education, start a family, buy a new home and live happy lives. But,

> > > paramedics, after education, find a another job (aside from the one

they

> > > really care about, EMS) and volunteer. Is it the Pager that excites

> > > everyone or maybe the discounts at the local Dairy Queen. What is it

> that

> > > make us VOLUNTEER. It must be a virus.

> > >

> > > However, before totally misunderstanding my POINT. I do not believe

> that

> > a

> > > city, county, or private paramedic is any better person or have better

> > > skills than a volunteer. I know and work with many volunteers who can

> run

> > > circles around this Paramedic. My point is DO NOT VOLUNTEER. MAKE

THEM

> > PAY

> > > YOU.

> > >

> > > P.S I supposed I really got off my original point about the low

salary.

> > > Raise the pay and you will get paramedic. Take make away from the

> doctors

> > > or something. hehehehe

> > >

> > > Come-on

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> _________________________________________________________________________

> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at

> http://www.hotmail.com.

> > >

> > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

> > > http://profiles.msn.com.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tony:

I'm sorry if I offended you. I have no doubt that some of the things I said

have been said before. They will doubtless be said again. My whole point was

that its time for paramedics to stop focusing attention on what nurses do

and don't do, what they are paid vs. what we are paid, and the slights some

nurses may or may not have committed against paramedics. We got plenty of

problems within our own ranks and of our own making without worrying about

any other medical provider and without wasting the energy to bash them when

they don't deserve it. We have to put our own house in order before we worry

about anything else and, quite frankly given where we keep saying we want to

go, our house is a wreck. Nurses and paramedics are like apples and oranges.

The only similarity is in that both disciplines are healthcare professionals

whose ranks include some unprofessional individuals (I fear we have many

more than they do). Anyway it accomplishes nothing to keep make the

comparison or to complain that they operate under a set of conditions that

we would like to have apply to us. Let's just go on to something else, okay?

Dave

Re: [texasems-L] Where are the Paramedics?

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hot and heavy about volunteering.

> > > >

> > > > I say it again...DO NOT VOLUNTEER. Make them pay you for what you

> know.

> > > > There is money and I assure you the first time someone dies because

> > there

> > > > was not a paramedic around (if that even matters) it will change.

> > > >

> > > > Have you ever picked up a newspaper and read about the child that

died

> > > > because there were no ambulance available. What do you really think

> was

> > > the

> > > > end result. They added more ambulances and they found a way, they

> > always

> > > > do.

> > > >

> > > > I know some of you can sit and honestly say, that crap happens

around

> > your

> > > > town every day but, still you try and push for more people and

> equipment

> > > and

> > > > still your hit with the big " no " . Unfortunately, just you or I

> meeting

> > > > death still will not pave the way to that new truck. It must take

> > someone

> > > > like a county commissioner, county judge, city counsel person or

some

> > one

> > > > with a hell of alot of money.

> > > >

> > > > By the way, how many nurses to you see volunteering their time. I

> think

> > we

> > > > are the only profession that really puts our jobs before our

families.

> > Do

> > > > we not care about them, too. Why is most of the world, after their

> > > > education, start a family, buy a new home and live happy lives.

But,

> > > > paramedics, after education, find a another job (aside from the one

> they

> > > > really care about, EMS) and volunteer. Is it the Pager that excites

> > > > everyone or maybe the discounts at the local Dairy Queen. What is

it

> > that

> > > > make us VOLUNTEER. It must be a virus.

> > > >

> > > > However, before totally misunderstanding my POINT. I do not believe

> > that

> > > a

> > > > city, county, or private paramedic is any better person or have

better

> > > > skills than a volunteer. I know and work with many volunteers who

can

> > run

> > > > circles around this Paramedic. My point is DO NOT VOLUNTEER. MAKE

> THEM

> > > PAY

> > > > YOU.

> > > >

> > > > P.S I supposed I really got off my original point about the low

> salary.

> > > > Raise the pay and you will get paramedic. Take make away from the

> > doctors

> > > > or something. hehehehe

> > > >

> > > > Come-on

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> >

_________________________________________________________________________

> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at

> > http://www.hotmail.com.

> > > >

> > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

> > > > http://profiles.msn.com.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tony,

I have to agree with Dr. here. I am just starting my RN education

through Regents college. I can honestly say I am learning more than I did as

a Paramedic. However, what I am learning is different. My education as a

Paramedic (EMT-B and EMT-I college credits, EMT-P vocational school) was

very much geared towards " see the problem, fix the problem " . So far my RN

stuff has been a great deal of " understand the problem and help the patient

understand the problem, then work together to fix the problem " . This is

taking some getting used to.

Also the " Life Span Development " class is proving to be an eye opener. I

would strongly recommend it to all of my brother and sister Paramedics.

Anatomy and Physiology, Psychology, Sociology, and Pharamacology are perhaps

the other great classes a Paramedic can take to get a better grasp of what

is going on, what is going to go on, and what to do to make it better. But I

digress.

I work with a bunch of great RN's and LPN's, and a couple that I feel the

need to verbally slapped down every once and a while (physical slapping down

being illegal). All of them (and the doctors) agree, however, that

Paramedics are some of the best triagers they have ever seen. They also all

agree that when we say " This wo/man is having a heart attack " we are

generally right. This is a compliment that I have heard many places.

Many hospitals have been surprised by the thoroughness of my patient

reports. I never understood why until I heard another ambulance service

giving a report one day. The skipped all of the pertinent negatives and

about half of the pertinent positives. We didn't gear up for what turned out

to be a major MI because the Paramedic only told us the patient had called

with epigastric pain. He never mentioned the abnormal 12-lead. That the

epigastric pain radiated to his left arm, neck, and back. Never mentioned

that the pain was relieve by nitro. He did mention the O2 and IV at least. I

wish I could have ripped him seven ways from sunday, he made all of us

Paramedics look like morons. He was educated at a vocational school and

feels he should make more money because " His education is worth more " and he

" can do an RN's job " .

How many of you have called in to request orders for MSO4 and been denied?

How many of you have then called another hospital (not the one you are going

to) and gotten the order from an MD you know? How many of you have been told

not to push it by the receiving facility then pushed it anyway because you

'have protocols to do so'? I see that all the time up here. The Paramedics

(most of whom went through a vocational school) don't understand why what

they are doing is sort of, well, WRONG! Why? They lack an education.

How many of you know Paramedics that are in this profession to get into

another? How many of you know nurses who are doing the same thing? Perhaps

that is because once they (the RN's) are educated they can find a good job

and don't feel the need to move on? Perhaps we, as a profession, need to

look at that and realize that furthering our education would be beneficial

to all (including ourselves)?

But no, we are going to continue to do this and complain. Fight the

education process. Fight 'for our patients' when we are really trying to

look cool. Please folks, quit saying, " But I have an education. I know how

to do my job. All Paramedics are a great as I am. " and look around. You will

quickly come to realize that not all Paramedics are a great as you are. Not

all Paramedics give a rats butt about the patient, they just care about the

paycheck and how to 'get rich quick'.

Everytime one of us screws up (and I do it a lot, trust met), we make the

rest of us look bad. It takes about a dozen of us being 'Roy and ny' to

make up for one bad Paramedic. Deal with it folks. You cannot be a manager

at Mcs without at least an Associates Degree. Why should you be able

to push drugs that will stop someone heart without one?

Anyhow, my opinions are my own. Both of my size 11 shoes fit in my mouth,

and I have probably just shoved both in. But I am tired of this argument.

Live with it. Paramedics are better pre-hospital providers than RN's.

Period. RN's are better hospital providers than Paramedics. Together, in the

ER, the two can be a force tob e reconed (sp) with. But until we get beyond

this 'My tally-whacker is bigget than yours' attitude we all have, that

isn't going to happen.

Good Night,

Webb, LP

FLW EMS, MO

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[Guest guest]

Gene, ya ol' Coot:

Thanks for correcting the error. I was under the impression that there had

been a megabuck settlement of that issue. I guess I had it wrong. One point

is, though, that the next guy may have a really good lawyer and the next

city may pay through the nose, tort reform or no. The bottom line is that

these cost cutting measures are false economy. You either pay now to do it

right, or you pay lots more later because you didn't.

Dave

Re: [texasems-L] Nurse/triage/sacrificies

>

> Dave's post needs reading. He is 99% correct in his views. The only

thing

> that's not accurate is that the City of Dallas had to pay big bucks for

Nurse

> Myrick's screwup. It did not. Because the survivors of the lady that

Nurse

> Billie Myrick wouldn't sent an ambulance for had an idiot for a lawyer who

> didn't have a clue about how to go about suing a big city and they

> essentially got nothing.

>

> Also, today, because of so-called Tort Reform which has been foisted upon

us

> by people who have got a lot more money than us, people with a legitimate

> damages inflicted by employees of a city can't get damages in proportion

to

> their losses.

>

> Who wins here? The 6 figure salary bosses of HMOs and EMS systems which

> won't be around next year win, but the paramedics don't. The paramedics

> never do.

>

> Gene G.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Matt:

Sorry, ol' son, but I ain't no doctor. I will be one of these days if I can

get into and get through UNT's new PhD in Public Health program, but that

day is about six years in the future. Until then, its Dave, Mr.

(that's actually my father), or hey-you. I'd suggest Sir Dave, but the Queen

has been slow about whopping me with the sword so far. :^)

Dave

Re: [texasems-L] Nurse/triage/sacrificies

>

> Tony,

>

> I have to agree with Dr. here. <<<<snip>>>>