Re: The cure for autism....how do you feel?

[Guest guest]

The parents who want to cure autism seem to me to be overly obsessed with

status. They actually think that not being the most popular kid in high

school is a fate worse than death. The " status " argument (e.g., " your kid

will be flipping burgers the rest of his/her life, will have no friends,

blah blah blah " ) actually works very well in converting scared parents into

curebies.

At the same time, I find it tiresome to have to constantly justify my

existence. I'm an engineer from Ohio, and I'm a very boring guy. I do not

have the proper combination of desire, ability and luck needed to rock the

world, and I would rather relax and enjoy my life while I can. The whole

" autism causes genius " line is getting kind of old. Sometimes it does, other

times it doesn't, and sometimes people not on the spectrum can be geniuses.

This being said, I still think NTs are insipid people and I'm better than

them. However, I don't know any true NTs, don't even think I've ever met

one, and am beginning to doubt that they exist. And if they don't exist, of

course I'm better than them. Since they exist only in my mind, I can make

them as stupid and as horrible as I want.

>

> I am finding it very upsetting how most the mom's out there want

> to " cure " autism out of their children. Before I knew that our

> daughter was autistic...I had no clue that I was on the spectrum.

> All's I knew is that I was always sick all the time. Like I have

> shared with you guys before...we later found out that the cause of our

> issues where Celiac Disease and Mitochondrial disease. This can cause

> ASD problems in some of us. Me and my daughter (and my son to a lesser

> degree) did not miss out on this. To control the physical sickness we

> take supplements and eat special diet. But this did not " cure " our

> autism. It just keeps us from being physicaly sick.

>

> As some of us know, the difference that it causes are both sad by

> wonderful. There are things that I would never want to change in

> myself or children. The " gifts " that go with our autism are something

> that I would not want to " chelate " or " cure " out of my children. Are

> we different...yes....but this is for the NT of the world to deal

> with. How do others feel about this? I personaly find it very

> offensive that they are looking for a " cure " ....I think that genius

> will be made extinct if we do such a thing. Think of the numbers of

> people that would not have invented or created such wonderful peices of

> art, music and science if they had been " cured " . What a boring world

> this would be. Nt's are very boring to me.

>

> We are going through an epidemic of autism.....MOST want a CURE. How

> many of you would be " cured " if there was such a thing?

>

> Thanks for reading my BS...I enjoy venting here.

>

> Antoinette

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's always bothered me how people seem to tack such importance to the feeling

of being popular, and looking " cool " whatever cool happens to be that week.

Living in South Florida during high school, I saw it quite a lot, and never even

attempted to understand it, for fear that I thought my head would explode.

People were so obsessed with their image during school, as if it would somehow

make them into better students. The irony is that many of the students would

often come to me for help with subjects like history, physics, and math. I was

often the youngest person in my math and history classes, but I was often

getting the highest grade.

In one instance in fact, I tutored a girl in American History, and she got an A

for the first time ever in any subject. Her parents decided to throw a party for

her to celebrate, and I didn't even find out about it until after the party had

already taken place. She told me that she simply forgot to invite me, but I

found out that she told others that she purposely didn't invite me because she

feared my presence would ruin her image of being cool, and because she told

people she got the A all by herself, and my being there would run the risk of

proving she was a liar.

" To be nobody but yourself in a world that is doing its best to make you

everyone else, is to fight the hardest battle anyone can fight. " - e e cummings

Debogorski

elcap1999@...

Re: The " cure " for autism....how do you feel?

The parents who want to cure autism seem to me to be overly obsessed with

status. They actually think that not being the most popular kid in high

school is a fate worse than death. The " status " argument (e.g., " your kid

will be flipping burgers the rest of his/her life, will have no friends,

blah blah blah " ) actually works very well in converting scared parents into

curebies.

At the same time, I find it tiresome to have to constantly justify my

existence. I'm an engineer from Ohio, and I'm a very boring guy. I do not

have the proper combination of desire, ability and luck needed to rock the

world, and I would rather relax and enjoy my life while I can. The whole

" autism causes genius " line is getting kind of old. Sometimes it does, other

times it doesn't, and sometimes people not on the spectrum can be geniuses.

This being said, I still think NTs are insipid people and I'm better than

them. However, I don't know any true NTs, don't even think I've ever met

one, and am beginning to doubt that they exist. And if they don't exist, of

course I'm better than them. Since they exist only in my mind, I can make

them as stupid and as horrible as I want.

>

> I am finding it very upsetting how most the mom's out there want

> to " cure " autism out of their children. Before I knew that our

> daughter was autistic...I had no clue that I was on the spectrum.

> All's I knew is that I was always sick all the time. Like I have

> shared with you guys before...we later found out that the cause of our

> issues where Celiac Disease and Mitochondrial disease. This can cause

> ASD problems in some of us. Me and my daughter (and my son to a lesser

> degree) did not miss out on this. To control the physical sickness we

> take supplements and eat special diet. But this did not " cure " our

> autism. It just keeps us from being physicaly sick.

>

> As some of us know, the difference that it causes are both sad by

> wonderful. There are things that I would never want to change in

> myself or children. The " gifts " that go with our autism are something

> that I would not want to " chelate " or " cure " out of my children. Are

> we different... yes....but this is for the NT of the world to deal

> with. How do others feel about this? I personaly find it very

> offensive that they are looking for a " cure " ....I think that genius

> will be made extinct if we do such a thing. Think of the numbers of

> people that would not have invented or created such wonderful peices of

> art, music and science if they had been " cured " . What a boring world

> this would be. Nt's are very boring to me.

>

> We are going through an epidemic of autism.....MOST want a CURE. How

> many of you would be " cured " if there was such a thing?

>

> Thanks for reading my BS...I enjoy venting here.

>

> Antoinette

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>At the same time, I find it tiresome to have to constantly justify my

>existence. I'm an engineer from Ohio, and I'm a very boring guy. I do not

>have the proper combination of desire, ability and luck needed to rock the

>world, and I would rather relax and enjoy my life while I can. The whole

> " autism causes genius " line is getting kind of old. Sometimes it does, other

>times it doesn't, and sometimes people not on the spectrum can be geniuses.

I agree, speaking as another " boring " non-genius. :-)

>This being said, I still think NTs are insipid people and I'm better than

>them. However, I don't know any true NTs, don't even think I've ever met

>one, and am beginning to doubt that they exist. And if they don't exist, of

>course I'm better than them. Since they exist only in my mind, I can make

>them as stupid and as horrible as I want.

Well, as long as your scorn for NTs doesn't apply to any of the real

people you meet or have contact with, I guess it's not hurting anyone

but you. I've met plenty of " NT " people (definitely non-autistic

people) who are " better " than I am in various aspects. Comparing one

person as a whole against another person as a whole doesn't make much

sense to me (not in terms of " better " / " worse, " anyway; comparisons

like " taller " or " older " are reasonable).

Jane

[Guest guest]

My remarks towards the imaginary NTs were pure self-parody. I do feel some

level of contempt towards NTs in general, but I have yet to meet any. I have

obviously met a lot of people who were not on the spectrum, but I have yet

to meet a person who is entirely NT in every way. I have encountered

behaviors which were entirely NT, (e.g., putting appearance above

effectiveness), and I'm amused at best, disgusted at worst. However, I

usually have the ability to differentiate between what someone does and who

they are, and I can forgive that person.

I just have a theory that all the rantings I (and others) do about the NTs

is directed towards some person who annoys us 100% of the time. If no such

person exists, we invent one. It's kind of similar to all this stuff about

curing autism... the curebies want to cure some deep, dark, faceless thing

that they cannot understand, and they just need help realizing that their

children are still their children, whom they (presumably) love, regardless

of neurological orientation.

>

> wrote:

> >At the same time, I find it tiresome to have to constantly justify my

> >existence. I'm an engineer from Ohio, and I'm a very boring guy. I do not

> >have the proper combination of desire, ability and luck needed to rock

> the

> >world, and I would rather relax and enjoy my life while I can. The whole

> > " autism causes genius " line is getting kind of old. Sometimes it does,

> other

> >times it doesn't, and sometimes people not on the spectrum can be

> geniuses.

>

> I agree, speaking as another " boring " non-genius. :-)

>

> >This being said, I still think NTs are insipid people and I'm better than

> >them. However, I don't know any true NTs, don't even think I've ever met

> >one, and am beginning to doubt that they exist. And if they don't exist,

> of

> >course I'm better than them. Since they exist only in my mind, I can make

> >them as stupid and as horrible as I want.

>

> Well, as long as your scorn for NTs doesn't apply to any of the real

> people you meet or have contact with, I guess it's not hurting anyone

> but you. I've met plenty of " NT " people (definitely non-autistic

> people) who are " better " than I am in various aspects. Comparing one

> person as a whole against another person as a whole doesn't make much

> sense to me (not in terms of " better " / " worse, " anyway; comparisons

> like " taller " or " older " are reasonable).

>

> Jane

>

>

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

> It's always bothered me how people seem to tack such importance to the

> feeling of being popular,

> and looking " cool " whatever cool happens to be that week. Living in South

> Florida during high school,

> I saw it quite a lot, and never even attempted to understand it, for fear

> that I thought my head would explode.

I feel the same way. As a teen I did do things to try to fit in, but I never

went to extremes. But then things weren't nearly as extreme, like with

regard to clothing in '70s Germany than they are here in the US.

> In one instance in fact, I tutored a girl in American History, and she got

> an A for the first time ever in any subject.

> Her parents decided to throw a party for her to celebrate, and I didn't

> even find out about it until after the party

> had already taken place. She told me that she simply forgot to invite me,

> but I found out that she told others that

> she purposely didn't invite me because she feared my presence would ruin

> her image of being cool, and because

> she told people she got the A all by herself, and my being there would run

> the risk of proving she was a liar.

How awful! I don't understand this type of mindset at all. I used to curse

the fact that I was different, but now I embrace it.

D.

[Guest guest]

But when people assign that much importance to clothing, we can make fun of

how they dressed 20 years after the fact. Anyone remember leisure suits?

;)

Then, then can make fun of how we dress now, and we won't care

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " Debogorski " <elcap1999@... <elcap1999%40yahoo.com>>

>

> > It's always bothered me how people seem to tack such importance to the

> > feeling of being popular,

> > and looking " cool " whatever cool happens to be that week. Living in

> South

> > Florida during high school,

> > I saw it quite a lot, and never even attempted to understand it, for

> fear

> > that I thought my head would explode.

>

> I feel the same way. As a teen I did do things to try to fit in, but I

> never

> went to extremes. But then things weren't nearly as extreme, like with

> regard to clothing in '70s Germany than they are here in the US.

>

> > In one instance in fact, I tutored a girl in American History, and she

> got

> > an A for the first time ever in any subject.

> > Her parents decided to throw a party for her to celebrate, and I didn't

> > even find out about it until after the party

> > had already taken place. She told me that she simply forgot to invite

> me,

> > but I found out that she told others that

> > she purposely didn't invite me because she feared my presence would ruin

>

> > her image of being cool, and because

> > she told people she got the A all by herself, and my being there would

> run

> > the risk of proving she was a liar.

>

> How awful! I don't understand this type of mindset at all. I used to curse

>

> the fact that I was different, but now I embrace it.

>

> D.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

> But when people assign that much importance to clothing, we can make fun

> of

> how they dressed 20 years after the fact. Anyone remember leisure suits?

>

> ;)

They were a lot better than those five-sizes-too-big, super-saggy pants most

young men wear today. This 'style' started in the early '90s, and my

daughter, who was born in '91 doesn't remember anything else on males. To

her well-fitting pants on males look 'wrong'. <sigh>

D.

[Guest guest]

The baggy pants thing was probably just a rebuttal to the short-shorts craze

in the '80s.

As for leisure suits, the name alone is just wrong. How easy is it to be

leisurely while swathed from head to foot in the evil polyester? 'Leisure

suit' isn't an oxymoron exactly, but it's wrong just the same... kind of

like 'friendly fire.'

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " De Carlo " <ardecarlo@... <ardecarlo%40gmail.com>>

>

> > But when people assign that much importance to clothing, we can make fun

>

> > of

> > how they dressed 20 years after the fact. Anyone remember leisure suits?

>

> >

> > ;)

>

> They were a lot better than those five-sizes-too-big, super-saggy pants

> most

> young men wear today. This 'style' started in the early '90s, and my

> daughter, who was born in '91 doesn't remember anything else on males. To

> her well-fitting pants on males look 'wrong'. <sigh>

>

> D.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What I really want to " cure " is how NTs don't " get us. " I was

puzzling over why many people either totally ignore me, even when

things are work-related and the information is necessary, or get

furious with me because they say that I lack " tact. " That's even

when I avoid face-to-face and try to use polite phrasing in email.

Then, last night, as I was watching the history channel with my

husband (it is a strong area of interest for him), and was seeing

programs about tribal warfare in post-Rome Britian. Suddenly, it hit

me.

Most NTs are hard-wired for tribalism. No matter how intelligent,

apparently caring, or " friendly " they are, they are hard-wired

entirely to see each person as either a part of " us " or " them. " While

we can have that type of attitude due to what socialization we have

picked up, they can't help themselves, any more than WE can help

ourselves when it comes to picking up subtle cuing. Some may even

enjoy " playing along " (GOOOO WILDCATS!!! LOL!), but I didn't realize

until just now how instinctual the rejection we get really is.

If you are autism-spectrum, you carry enough non-socialized

behavioral patterns to " read " as " them. " This causes an instinctive

rejection sense of " not my tribe " from NTs. In those who do act

accepting toward us, there are smiles and " chuckling, " shaking of

heads, and an " oh well, that's just....so-and-so's way, " in which

they are trying hard to discount our non-group behavior so they can

define us by what they see " fits. " Their " not us " response is either

hostility, " bemused affection " to be able to cope with internal

rejection of us, or " pity " in which, in order to accept, they have

to " fix. " Voila, the need for " cure. "

I just had what I might best describe as a " bittersweet " meeting with

my school's principal, in which she talked to me about how " some

people " in the building feel offended when I try to talk to them

about compliance with IEPs in the classroom or other issues relating

to our students. Of course, I'm reflecting on how many at that point

aren't complying or have missed the issue, how I've already tried to

talk to them but a couple avoid, and those I catch and

say " please, " " if you don't mind, " and all those other phrases nod

with a smile, perhaps even " talk the talk " showing knowledge of the

things they have to do, and then ignore... There are indeed teachers

who are open and positive in their conversations with me, and have

the same " bemused affection " response as my current principal, but

there's enough " hostile " types to make things get really interesting.

And unlike any boss I've ever had, she told me that she would take

serious anything I brought to her attention, to run emails by her so

that she could help me adjust social phrasing to bring out content

in " a positive light, " etc. She is the first person ever in this sort

of situation to tell me she just looks at my content, and shakes off

any hurt or anger from lack of " tact " as " oh, that's just . "

She asked me if I remembered the conversation I'd had last year with

her and the prior principal about " tact " (of course... that's why

there were polite phrases, disclaimers of " thank you to those already

doing this... " peppered every other paragraph, etc.). I told her

directly I just don't perceive the subtler stuff, and would

appreciate it if she DID do that kind of support... that the prior

principal ignored and rebuffed me when these issues came up, and what

she was seeing when I sent out emails with " after getting questions,

comments, etc. from many of you, and hearing observations from EAs

and students " type emails, was lots of frustration from me as I tried

to do my job, communicate effectively with colleagues, and " mask " to

appear as normal as possible (which I do well on until the first

introductions and NT standard first few conversations types are out

of the way...then I get lost). I, also for the first time, was more

open and direct with a boss about my autstic nature, saying " well, my

son gets it from somewhere... " I thought email was easier to mask in,

but I think I wasn't fully realizing that NTs use polite phrasing as

insults on a regular basis, and since I don't pick up what the heck

rhythm, pacing, or other cues they use to separate truth from insult,

how the heck can I use the phrases effectively without hurting

feelings. Duh. So what the heck do you say? You can't be direct,

can't use polite phrases, and if you attempt to find the right level

of " vague " so nobody gets hurt, they don't take it seriously.

Ah, finally, an NT willing to socially proofread my writing. Nice.

No, after a lifetime of having apparent friendliness turn to

hostility, I don't trust her. I will be careful. At least, this is a

boss who will be more " up front " about things.

You'd think that trained educators would have more of a clue when it

comes to a colleague dealing with being different ... yeah, right.

I have seen posted elsewhere on the internet, that high-functioning

autistics are only able to keep jobs in the long-term under two

circumstances... they have found a career with none or minimal social

interaction as part of the requirements, or they are so good at the

actual tasks that the difficulties with colleagues are " tolerated "

for the sake of the high level of contribution made. As my meeting

with my principal wrapped up, she said, " You are an incredibly good

teacher, and our students need you. " Message received. Keep

being " incredibly good " and I will be tolerated.

>

> I am finding it very upsetting how most the mom's out there want

> to " cure " autism out of their children. Before I knew that our

> daughter was autistic...I had no clue that I was on the spectrum.

> All's I knew is that I was always sick all the time. Like I have

> shared with you guys before...we later found out that the cause of

our

> issues where Celiac Disease and Mitochondrial disease. This can

cause

> ASD problems in some of us. Me and my daughter (and my son to a

lesser

> degree) did not miss out on this. To control the physical sickness

we

> take supplements and eat special diet. But this did not " cure " our

> autism. It just keeps us from being physicaly sick.

>

> As some of us know, the difference that it causes are both sad by

> wonderful. There are things that I would never want to change in

> myself or children. The " gifts " that go with our autism are

something

> that I would not want to " chelate " or " cure " out of my children.

Are

> we different...yes....but this is for the NT of the world to deal

> with. How do others feel about this? I personaly find it very

> offensive that they are looking for a " cure " ....I think that genius

> will be made extinct if we do such a thing. Think of the numbers

of

> people that would not have invented or created such wonderful

peices of

> art, music and science if they had been " cured " . What a boring

world

> this would be. Nt's are very boring to me.

>

> We are going through an epidemic of autism.....MOST want a CURE.

How

> many of you would be " cured " if there was such a thing?

>

> Thanks for reading my BS...I enjoy venting here.

>

> Antoinette

>

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

> What I really want to " cure " is how NTs don't " get us. " I was

> puzzling over why many people either totally ignore me, even when

> things are work-related and the information is necessary, or get

> furious with me because they say that I lack " tact. " That's even

> when I avoid face-to-face and try to use polite phrasing in email.

Thank you for writing this. I'll save it in my " Aspie " folder. You put into

words what I've known for many years. I've always been accused of not being

'tactful'.

> define us by what they see " fits. " Their " not us " response is either

> hostility, " bemused affection " to be able to cope with internal

> rejection of us, or " pity " in which, in order to accept, they have

> to " fix. " Voila, the need for " cure. "

Often they will belittle us, like one time when I didn't get someone's joke,

someone I worked with at the time said " Oh you're so cute when you do that " >

I could have smacked her.

> She asked me if I remembered the conversation I'd had last year with

> her and the prior principal about " tact " (of course... that's why

> there were polite phrases, disclaimers of " thank you to those already

> doing this... " peppered every other paragraph, etc.). I told her

> directly I just don't perceive the subtler stuff, and would

> appreciate it if she DID do that kind of support... that the prior

> principal ignored and rebuffed me when these issues came up, and what

> she was seeing when I sent out emails with " after getting questions,

> comments, etc. from many of you, and hearing observations from EAs

> and students " type emails, was lots of frustration from me as I tried

> to do my job, communicate effectively with colleagues, and " mask " to

> appear as normal as possible (which I do well on until the first

> introductions and NT standard first few conversations types are out

> of the way...then I get lost). I, also for the first time, was more

> open and direct with a boss about my autstic nature, saying " well, my

> son gets it from somewhere... " I thought email was easier to mask in,

> but I think I wasn't fully realizing that NTs use polite phrasing as

> insults on a regular basis, and since I don't pick up what the heck

> rhythm, pacing, or other cues they use to separate truth from insult,

> how the heck can I use the phrases effectively without hurting

> feelings. Duh. So what the heck do you say? You can't be direct,

> can't use polite phrases, and if you attempt to find the right level

> of " vague " so nobody gets hurt, they don't take it seriously.

We just can't seem to win.

D.

[Guest guest]

There is a wide range of what is considered ASD or ASD-like. Why is there

such a slim range of 'normal'? It doesn't make much sense. I should think

that the ASDs, ASD cousins and ASD sympathizers should outnumber all the

'normal people, but apparently I'm wrong.

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " " <michsarabia@... <michsarabia%40yahoo.com>>

>

> > What I really want to " cure " is how NTs don't " get us. " I was

> > puzzling over why many people either totally ignore me, even when

> > things are work-related and the information is necessary, or get

> > furious with me because they say that I lack " tact. " That's even

> > when I avoid face-to-face and try to use polite phrasing in email.

>

> Thank you for writing this. I'll save it in my " Aspie " folder. You put

> into

> words what I've known for many years. I've always been accused of not

> being

> 'tactful'.

>

> > define us by what they see " fits. " Their " not us " response is either

> > hostility, " bemused affection " to be able to cope with internal

> > rejection of us, or " pity " in which, in order to accept, they have

> > to " fix. " Voila, the need for " cure. "

>

> Often they will belittle us, like one time when I didn't get someone's

> joke,

> someone I worked with at the time said " Oh you're so cute when you do

> that " >

> I could have smacked her.

>

> > She asked me if I remembered the conversation I'd had last year with

> > her and the prior principal about " tact " (of course... that's why

> > there were polite phrases, disclaimers of " thank you to those already

> > doing this... " peppered every other paragraph, etc.). I told her

> > directly I just don't perceive the subtler stuff, and would

> > appreciate it if she DID do that kind of support... that the prior

> > principal ignored and rebuffed me when these issues came up, and what

> > she was seeing when I sent out emails with " after getting questions,

> > comments, etc. from many of you, and hearing observations from EAs

> > and students " type emails, was lots of frustration from me as I tried

> > to do my job, communicate effectively with colleagues, and " mask " to

> > appear as normal as possible (which I do well on until the first

> > introductions and NT standard first few conversations types are out

> > of the way...then I get lost). I, also for the first time, was more

> > open and direct with a boss about my autstic nature, saying " well, my

> > son gets it from somewhere... " I thought email was easier to mask in,

> > but I think I wasn't fully realizing that NTs use polite phrasing as

> > insults on a regular basis, and since I don't pick up what the heck

> > rhythm, pacing, or other cues they use to separate truth from insult,

> > how the heck can I use the phrases effectively without hurting

> > feelings. Duh. So what the heck do you say? You can't be direct,

> > can't use polite phrases, and if you attempt to find the right level

> > of " vague " so nobody gets hurt, they don't take it seriously.

>

> We just can't seem to win.

>

> D.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Minorities usually do have a hard time of things out there with the normal

people. At least

there are enough of us out there that we can get together like this.

Too many times someone normal askes me a question and then doesn't shut up long

enough to hear the whole answer. Then when they assume the wrong thing due to

the fact

that they wouldn't listen to the whole answer they get mad at me. Because of

that I start

thinking:

What if one of us is in the war overseas and the commander of the regiment

sends us out

on a reconnasance mission. If Commander NT does not listen to Sgt. AS' full

report it is

quite possible that without compleate information the USA will wind up killing a

lot of

innocent people. Then when it is found out that innocents have been killed Sgt

AS gets

blamed. For what? and Why?

Just because he or we are socially inept does not mean that we should not be

listened to.

KK

> >

> > I am finding it very upsetting how most the mom's out there want

> > to " cure " autism out of their children. Before I knew that our

> > daughter was autistic...I had no clue that I was on the spectrum.

> > All's I knew is that I was always sick all the time. Like I have

> > shared with you guys before...we later found out that the cause of

> our

> > issues where Celiac Disease and Mitochondrial disease. This can

> cause

> > ASD problems in some of us. Me and my daughter (and my son to a

> lesser

> > degree) did not miss out on this. To control the physical sickness

> we

> > take supplements and eat special diet. But this did not " cure " our

> > autism. It just keeps us from being physicaly sick.

> >

> > As some of us know, the difference that it causes are both sad by

> > wonderful. There are things that I would never want to change in

> > myself or children. The " gifts " that go with our autism are

> something

> > that I would not want to " chelate " or " cure " out of my children.

> Are

> > we different...yes....but this is for the NT of the world to deal

> > with. How do others feel about this? I personaly find it very

> > offensive that they are looking for a " cure " ....I think that genius

> > will be made extinct if we do such a thing. Think of the numbers

> of

> > people that would not have invented or created such wonderful

> peices of

> > art, music and science if they had been " cured " . What a boring

> world

> > this would be. Nt's are very boring to me.

> >

> > We are going through an epidemic of autism.....MOST want a CURE.

> How

> > many of you would be " cured " if there was such a thing?

> >

> > Thanks for reading my BS...I enjoy venting here.

> >

> > Antoinette

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

After reading this thread, I would presently say I don't have a desire

to be " cured. " However, truthfully speaking what DOES need cured here

is the blatant IGNORANCE towards one another (NT or AC.) I want to see

the bridge of understanding built (rather than be burned) between us in

humanity. I'd LOVE it if they'd focus more on our gifts/assets much

more than our " deficits. " Especially if these assets are marketable

skills. I do somewhat understand that about " status. " Being 47 and

working 8 years in a retirement home's dining facility IMHO is not the

ideal " ice breaker topic " at parties, introductions, etc. as a singleton

(or to start up any kind of relationships.)

2 years from now, I'll be turning 50. DON'T give me an " Over The Hill "

deal please. I want to go out in style-FORMALLY-much similar to that of

a bride, debutante or quinceanera presentation. If I still don't have a

signifigant other in my life then, I plan on (complete with the gown)

purchasing that diamond & aquamarine right hand ring in that near

distant future..

A word of advice here: Being in " bitch " mode is nothing to be ashamed

of (within reason). You shouldn't have to play the role of the

" apologetic/excusing coward/martyr " when you feel that you were wronged

or injustices done to you. Only do this with your discretion and

judgement.

Yes, I am AS. I have also busted my ass for many years, overcame many

painful obstacles (despite being a late bloomer, bullying, numerous

firings in my past) to attain/achieve what I presently have in life.

Certainly IMHO,THAT alone calls for this kind of celebration!! ; D

http://community.webtv.net/tikigalharkins/LETSTALKASPERGERS

[Guest guest]

,

You write very well and I share your feelings, particularly about

employment. What sort of teaching do you do? I admire you for working to

enforce IEPs. Too often it seems that districts don't pay any attention to

them unless the parents can afford an attorney or something similar is going

on. We need strong advocates like you in our school systems

Ari

>

> What I really want to " cure " is how NTs don't " get us. " I was

> puzzling over why many people either totally ignore me, even when

> things are work-related and the information is necessary, or get

> furious with me because they say that I lack " tact. " That's even

> when I avoid face-to-face and try to use polite phrasing in email.

>

> Then, last night, as I was watching the history channel with my

> husband (it is a strong area of interest for him), and was seeing

> programs about tribal warfare in post-Rome Britian. Suddenly, it hit

> me.

>

> Most NTs are hard-wired for tribalism. No matter how intelligent,

> apparently caring, or " friendly " they are, they are hard-wired

> entirely to see each person as either a part of " us " or " them. " While

> we can have that type of attitude due to what socialization we have

> picked up, they can't help themselves, any more than WE can help

> ourselves when it comes to picking up subtle cuing. Some may even

> enjoy " playing along " (GOOOO WILDCATS!!! LOL!), but I didn't realize

> until just now how instinctual the rejection we get really is.

>

> If you are autism-spectrum, you carry enough non-socialized

> behavioral patterns to " read " as " them. " This causes an instinctive

> rejection sense of " not my tribe " from NTs. In those who do act

> accepting toward us, there are smiles and " chuckling, " shaking of

> heads, and an " oh well, that's just....so-and-so's way, " in which

> they are trying hard to discount our non-group behavior so they can

> define us by what they see " fits. " Their " not us " response is either

> hostility, " bemused affection " to be able to cope with internal

> rejection of us, or " pity " in which, in order to accept, they have

> to " fix. " Voila, the need for " cure. "

>

> I just had what I might best describe as a " bittersweet " meeting with

> my school's principal, in which she talked to me about how " some

> people " in the building feel offended when I try to talk to them

> about compliance with IEPs in the classroom or other issues relating

> to our students. Of course, I'm reflecting on how many at that point

> aren't complying or have missed the issue, how I've already tried to

> talk to them but a couple avoid, and those I catch and

> say " please, " " if you don't mind, " and all those other phrases nod

> with a smile, perhaps even " talk the talk " showing knowledge of the

> things they have to do, and then ignore... There are indeed teachers

> who are open and positive in their conversations with me, and have

> the same " bemused affection " response as my current principal, but

> there's enough " hostile " types to make things get really interesting.

>

> And unlike any boss I've ever had, she told me that she would take

> serious anything I brought to her attention, to run emails by her so

> that she could help me adjust social phrasing to bring out content

> in " a positive light, " etc. She is the first person ever in this sort

> of situation to tell me she just looks at my content, and shakes off

> any hurt or anger from lack of " tact " as " oh, that's just . "

> She asked me if I remembered the conversation I'd had last year with

> her and the prior principal about " tact " (of course... that's why

> there were polite phrases, disclaimers of " thank you to those already

> doing this... " peppered every other paragraph, etc.). I told her

> directly I just don't perceive the subtler stuff, and would

> appreciate it if she DID do that kind of support... that the prior

> principal ignored and rebuffed me when these issues came up, and what

> she was seeing when I sent out emails with " after getting questions,

> comments, etc. from many of you, and hearing observations from EAs

> and students " type emails, was lots of frustration from me as I tried

> to do my job, communicate effectively with colleagues, and " mask " to

> appear as normal as possible (which I do well on until the first

> introductions and NT standard first few conversations types are out

> of the way...then I get lost). I, also for the first time, was more

> open and direct with a boss about my autstic nature, saying " well, my

> son gets it from somewhere... " I thought email was easier to mask in,

> but I think I wasn't fully realizing that NTs use polite phrasing as

> insults on a regular basis, and since I don't pick up what the heck

> rhythm, pacing, or other cues they use to separate truth from insult,

> how the heck can I use the phrases effectively without hurting

> feelings. Duh. So what the heck do you say? You can't be direct,

> can't use polite phrases, and if you attempt to find the right level

> of " vague " so nobody gets hurt, they don't take it seriously.

>

> Ah, finally, an NT willing to socially proofread my writing. Nice.

>

> No, after a lifetime of having apparent friendliness turn to

> hostility, I don't trust her. I will be careful. At least, this is a

> boss who will be more " up front " about things.

>

> You'd think that trained educators would have more of a clue when it

> comes to a colleague dealing with being different ... yeah, right.

>

> I have seen posted elsewhere on the internet, that high-functioning

> autistics are only able to keep jobs in the long-term under two

> circumstances... they have found a career with none or minimal social

> interaction as part of the requirements, or they are so good at the

> actual tasks that the difficulties with colleagues are " tolerated "

> for the sake of the high level of contribution made. As my meeting

> with my principal wrapped up, she said, " You are an incredibly good

> teacher, and our students need you. " Message received. Keep

> being " incredibly good " and I will be tolerated.

>

>

>

>

> >

> > I am finding it very upsetting how most the mom's out there want

> > to " cure " autism out of their children. Before I knew that our

> > daughter was autistic...I had no clue that I was on the spectrum.

> > All's I knew is that I was always sick all the time. Like I have

> > shared with you guys before...we later found out that the cause of

> our

> > issues where Celiac Disease and Mitochondrial disease. This can

> cause

> > ASD problems in some of us. Me and my daughter (and my son to a

> lesser

> > degree) did not miss out on this. To control the physical sickness

> we

> > take supplements and eat special diet. But this did not " cure " our

> > autism. It just keeps us from being physicaly sick.

> >

> > As some of us know, the difference that it causes are both sad by

> > wonderful. There are things that I would never want to change in

> > myself or children. The " gifts " that go with our autism are

> something

> > that I would not want to " chelate " or " cure " out of my children.

> Are

> > we different...yes....but this is for the NT of the world to deal

> > with. How do others feel about this? I personaly find it very

> > offensive that they are looking for a " cure " ....I think that genius

> > will be made extinct if we do such a thing. Think of the numbers

> of

> > people that would not have invented or created such wonderful

> peices of

> > art, music and science if they had been " cured " . What a boring

> world

> > this would be. Nt's are very boring to me.

> >

> > We are going through an epidemic of autism.....MOST want a CURE.

> How

> > many of you would be " cured " if there was such a thing?

> >

> > Thanks for reading my BS...I enjoy venting here.

> >

> > Antoinette

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

There is indeed a wide range of TYPES of autism/autism-like

personality patterns. When taken as a whole, about 1 out of 10 people

(I've read stats but I can't find the darn links) probably could fit

if the slightest hint of autistic-like personality patterns were

taken into consideration.

Diagnosed and undiagnosed (usually because good at masking)

population of those whose traits put them " over the line " for a true

autistic personality are probably around 2-3% of the overall

population. While that means that in the US it is likely that about 5

million people truly are autistic-spectrum, it still puts us in a

very small minority.

>

> There is a wide range of what is considered ASD or ASD-like. Why is

there

> such a slim range of 'normal'? It doesn't make much sense. I should

think

> that the ASDs, ASD cousins and ASD sympathizers should outnumber

all the

> 'normal people, but apparently I'm wrong.

>

[Guest guest]

Ari--

Thank you.

I am a special education teacher (master's degree), certified K-12. I

currently teach K-5 Resource, and a gifted enrichment program (in my

state, gifted falls under special education). I primarily work with

students having to cope with learning disabilities, ADHD, and speech-

language issues, and currently have two high-functioning autistics on

my caseload. Well, three if you count me as one of the ones needing

support...lol!!!

>

> ,

>

> You write very well and I share your feelings, particularly about

> employment. What sort of teaching do you do? I admire you for

working to

> enforce IEPs. Too often it seems that districts don't pay any

attention to

> them unless the parents can afford an attorney or something similar

is going

> on. We need strong advocates like you in our school systems

>

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > I am finding it very upsetting how most the mom's out there

want

> > > to " cure " autism out of their children. Before I knew that

our

> > > daughter was autistic...I had no clue that I was on the

spectrum.

> > > All's I knew is that I was always sick all the time. Like I

have

> > > shared with you guys before...we later found out that the

cause of

> > our

> > > issues where Celiac Disease and Mitochondrial disease. This

can

> > cause

> > > ASD problems in some of us. Me and my daughter (and my son to

a

> > lesser

> > > degree) did not miss out on this. To control the physical

sickness

> > we

> > > take supplements and eat special diet. But this did

not " cure " our

> > > autism. It just keeps us from being physicaly sick.

> > >

> > > As some of us know, the difference that it causes are both sad

by

> > > wonderful. There are things that I would never want to change

in

> > > myself or children. The " gifts " that go with our autism are

> > something

> > > that I would not want to " chelate " or " cure " out of my

children.

> > Are

> > > we different...yes....but this is for the NT of the world to

deal

> > > with. How do others feel about this? I personaly find it

very

> > > offensive that they are looking for a " cure " ....I think that

genius

> > > will be made extinct if we do such a thing. Think of the

numbers

> > of

> > > people that would not have invented or created such wonderful

> > peices of

> > > art, music and science if they had been " cured " . What a

boring

> > world

> > > this would be. Nt's are very boring to me.

> > >

> > > We are going through an epidemic of autism.....MOST want a

CURE.

> > How

> > > many of you would be " cured " if there was such a thing?

> > >

> > > Thanks for reading my BS...I enjoy venting here.

> > >

> > > Antoinette

> > >

> >

> I think that it is ok to help people with autism! However,I

think that they should not try to conform them either.

[Guest guest]

Hi Rhonda and ,

You all are soooooooo right about the kinds of jobs ACs have. Limited

contact with society & regimentation. (Hey, yuhwantfrieswiththat???)

Either that or being delegated/relegated to a job you don't like but

needs to be done (read caregiver) just to make ends meet. BTW: These

" scandal laden stars ought to be mandated to give us who work our asses

off THEIR SALARIES so WE can make it without charity. Just a

thought...<sigh>

I have worked 8 years at a retirement home's dining room facility

fulltime. Residents there enjoy me and " miss me " whenever I'm off/gone.

Management has made improvements since some people have left and I like

working for them. TOLERATION......UGGGGGH! Give me ACCEPTANCE anyday

over that other crap!! It used to be back in the 1950's that " loyalty,

reliability & dependability " mattered on the job. In my 8 years there,

I have seen numerous " bailings out " when people are needed, having to

work shorthanded, people who were in managerial positions (American) who

couldn't spell worth beans and couldn't even properly fill out an

application without some kind of help. And....., here I am where I

am-making slighly less than $ 10.00 hrly! Being a single AC who is

able to do some socializing, I am NOT impressed with my job title as an

introductory " icebreaker " within a material world where yuppiedom and

jaunts to Europe are constantly the order in conversations. I often

feel sooooooooooooooo out there in left field-y'know " Never did/done

it/been there " kind of thing. I don't have high tech gadgets or a

passport to my own name. When I DO turn 50 in a few years I want to

wear that bridal/deb/quinceceanera gown. I want that aquamarine &

diamond ring. I want a complete dayspa treatment-complete with mole

removal & such. So, yes, I have been preparing for then. If qustions

are asked about " what I'd like for my BD " , I'll say, " I have previously

missed milestones in my life (due to AS) when I SHOULD HAVE

had/celebrated these lifetime milestones. I would love nothing more

than to experience all this before I die/my health gives out to the

extent I am unable to enjoy life to the fullest. "

Sorry for the rant,

Wanda

http://community.webtv.net/tikigalharkins/LETSTALKASPERGERS

[Guest guest]

I was thinking about this some more and I can see that I have actually

managed to find what amount to " sheltered workshops " for most of my

life. College was a bit of a " sheltered workshop " in that I could hole

up in the library and read after class. I then moved to a small

community that was also a sheltering sort of place. I then went to work

for a very small business, which employed maybe 8-10 people. I then

worked my way into self-employment, working at home on my computer.

They have all been small places where I could develop and use a skill

or two but mostly be left alone and in none of these places were

advanced social skills a requirement.

Rhonda

[Guest guest]

Wanda and Everyone,

All of us do not work in dead-end jobs. In fact, there are even a few famous

people on the Spectrum, like Tim Page, and other famous people.

There is a whole world opening up for people who would like to earn good

money, but not be around people too often: Online work from home. Be careful

what you get into, though.

Also, there are things with great structure to them, that- although people

oriented- still have rules to them that are easy to apply. The trick is to be

willing to say later, if you do not know how to do something. I have taken

jobs where I have gone way beyond the call of duty, and it was not fun, and it

did not go over well. There are social limits to things, and when I do not know

what they are, I am willing to ask, or not do it.

Wanda, I hope you get to do all those great milestones you would like to do,

and soon!

tikigalharkins@... wrote:

Hi Rhonda and ,

You all are soooooooo right about the kinds of jobs ACs have. Limited

contact with society & regimentation. (Hey, yuhwantfrieswiththat???)

Either that or being delegated/relegated to a job you don't like but

needs to be done (read caregiver) just to make ends meet. BTW: These

" scandal laden stars ought to be mandated to give us who work our asses

off THEIR SALARIES so WE can make it without charity. Just a

thought...<sigh>

I have worked 8 years at a retirement home's dining room facility

fulltime. Residents there enjoy me and " miss me " whenever I'm off/gone.

Management has made improvements since some people have left and I like

working for them. TOLERATION......UGGGGGH! Give me ACCEPTANCE anyday

over that other crap!! It used to be back in the 1950's that " loyalty,

reliability & dependability " mattered on the job. In my 8 years there,

I have seen numerous " bailings out " when people are needed, having to

work shorthanded, people who were in managerial positions (American) who

couldn't spell worth beans and couldn't even properly fill out an

application without some kind of help. And....., here I am where I

am-making slighly less than $ 10.00 hrly! Being a single AC who is

able to do some socializing, I am NOT impressed with my job title as an

introductory " icebreaker " within a material world where yuppiedom and

jaunts to Europe are constantly the order in conversations. I often

feel sooooooooooooooo out there in left field-y'know " Never did/done

it/been there " kind of thing. I don't have high tech gadgets or a

passport to my own name. When I DO turn 50 in a few years I want to

wear that bridal/deb/quinceceanera gown. I want that aquamarine &

diamond ring. I want a complete dayspa treatment-complete with mole

removal & such. So, yes, I have been preparing for then. If qustions

are asked about " what I'd like for my BD " , I'll say, " I have previously

missed milestones in my life (due to AS) when I SHOULD HAVE

had/celebrated these lifetime milestones. I would love nothing more

than to experience all this before I die/my health gives out to the

extent I am unable to enjoy life to the fullest. "

Sorry for the rant,

Wanda

http://community.webtv.net/tikigalharkins/LETSTALKASPERGERS

---------------------------------

Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and

lay it on us.

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>Also, there are things with great structure to them, that- although

>people oriented- still have rules to them that are easy to apply.

That reminds me of a surprise I had this afternoon. After work, I had

my hair cut. I always go to a place that is cheap. It caters to young

people of the sort that in the olden days might be called " counter

culture. " Goths, etc. Since I always take whoever is available (and

since I never remember/recognize them from one time to the next), I'm

pretty much at the mercy of coincidence. I usually end up with a

woman cutting my hair, probably because it's always been mostly women

working there. Today, however, it was two men there. The one who cut

my hair was rather ratty looking. I mean, he gave me a rather rodent

impression (I am not prejudiced against rodents).

This young man did not talk to me much, but at one point he asked me

what I'd been doing with my day. I said I was on my way home from

work, and he asked what I did. I said, " I'm a program coordinator at

the University. " From his subsequent reaction, I realized he thought

a " program coordinator " was someone who coordinated programs

(programs = gatherings, activities, conferences). He said, " Oh, you

give talks before lots of people and stuff like that. " It had never

occurred to me that anyone could make that interpretation. Of course,

I told him, No, I coordinate an academic program and mostly talk only

to my computer. It's my colleague the " outreach coordinator " who

gives talks. Her job would be horrible for me (and I'd do it very,

very, very badly), but my job is do-able.

One very strange and unpleasant thing: I am used to hair-cutters

using a soft brush or cloth to brush bits of cut hair off the

customer's face at the end of the hair-cutting. This man didn't use a

brush. Instead, he *blew* on my face -- from close-up, too. Only

once, thank goodness.

Jane

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>Your job is a perfect position for someone who does not want to be

>around people too much! But, you are a counselor, right?

No. I'm neither a counselor nor an advisor.

Jane

[Guest guest]

How awful, Jane - the blowing on your face - EEK I'd find that horribly

disgusting.

jo

Re: Re: The " cure " for autism....how do you feel?

wrote:

>Also, there are things with great structure to them, that- although

>people oriented- still have rules to them that are easy to apply.

That reminds me of a surprise I had this afternoon. After work, I had

my hair cut. I always go to a place that is cheap. It caters to young

people of the sort that in the olden days might be called " counter

culture. " Goths, etc. Since I always take whoever is available (and

since I never remember/recognize them from one time to the next), I'm

pretty much at the mercy of coincidence. I usually end up with a

woman cutting my hair, probably because it's always been mostly women

working there. Today, however, it was two men there. The one who cut

my hair was rather ratty looking. I mean, he gave me a rather rodent

impression (I am not prejudiced against rodents).

This young man did not talk to me much, but at one point he asked me

what I'd been doing with my day. I said I was on my way home from

work, and he asked what I did. I said, " I'm a program coordinator at

the University. " From his subsequent reaction, I realized he thought

a " program coordinator " was someone who coordinated programs

(programs = gatherings, activities, conferences) . He said, " Oh, you

give talks before lots of people and stuff like that. " It had never

occurred to me that anyone could make that interpretation. Of course,

I told him, No, I coordinate an academic program and mostly talk only

to my computer. It's my colleague the " outreach coordinator " who

gives talks. Her job would be horrible for me (and I'd do it very,

very, very badly), but my job is do-able.

One very strange and unpleasant thing: I am used to hair-cutters

using a soft brush or cloth to brush bits of cut hair off the

customer's face at the end of the hair-cutting. This man didn't use a

brush. Instead, he *blew* on my face -- from close-up, too. Only

once, thank goodness.

Jane

[Guest guest]

Hey there, Wanda!

You may note another repeated theme in my and others' postings about

success in career, and getting social recognition (e.g. your wish to

actually have major recognition of your life milestones like

birthdays).

Those of us who accomodate the NTs are successful, and constantly

seek to build and refine our coping skills. There are lists of

auties/aspies who are famously successful at their careers, and many

others of us who will not achieve fame, but certainly achieve success

in our goals. It is not that you are autistic spectrum that is

keeping you where you're at, but either an inability (which of course

is therefore fine but will limit your choices), or an unwillingness

to accomodate NT expectations.

In my case, when I have a goal for client/student, for my children or

husband, or for myself, I am willing, but unable to manage naturally

and reflexively, especially in complex, " tricky " social interactions

that require " refined " responses. I am willing because I have been

able to develop an intellectual understanding of the idea that

patterned social interaction is a maintenance activity to hold long-

term positive relationships, and to gain adequate resources to attain

a goal.

I do feel emotions, as do we all, and that includes intense

affection, love, caring, etc. I enjoy many forms of humor. I enjoy

individual interaction with people who share my interests. I will be

there for friends who need help or want to talk; I like some people

very much. But, like all spectrum people, I don't " feel " or perceive

the nuances of NT rules naturally or quickly. Nor do I directly

perceive, desire, or really understand the level of intense non-

verbal social patterning, interaction, and posturing that NTs do ...

it is so overwhelming that sometimes I am trembling visibly, and may

even be holding back tears, when trying to access and apply coping

skills in high-stress situations. For me, as for many of us who are

more social, sharing opinion, personal experience, and factual

information, straightforward and clear without " hiding " our meanings,

is a comfortable interaction that builds our sense of friendship.

My district occasionally sends high-functioning auties and aspies

through my husband's drama program, and they start " doing so much

better in 'understanding' other people! Oh my! " LMAO. As long as the

program works to help them survive, it truly is a wonderful thing.

But NTs read the students' changed behavior in their own way, rather

than the autie/aspie way. Really, these kids have learned that social

interaction is a " play, " and one must develop a " character " in order

to navigate successfully.

By navigating successfully, you have more access to activities of

interest, since other people, most of whom are NTs, are gatekeepers

for that access. The gatekeeper must be comfortable and receive

positive reinforcers in order to open the gate. When I fail to

placate the gatekeeper, it often appears, evidently, to NTs that I am

rejecting the gatekeeper and his/her needs. That isn't the case; at

first I may have had no clue of that person being in that role for

that specific need. Once it has been shown the person is the

gatekeeper, and offended, I'm showing confusion and fear because

either I didn't recognize that person as a gatekeeper for that

individual issue, or I made a horrible mistake on what I thought the

gatekeeper wanted/needed. I am terrified that I will have lost access

to that person, either as gatekeeper and/or as friend. Usually, that

confusion and fear is expressed as apologetic babble. People acting

as mentors and/or friends who finally " get me, " in this sort of

situation tell me directly to be quiet, sit down, and listen, and

then phrase things simply and directly without any social sub-cuing

to make me further stressed. It works beautifully.

All this means that over years I have developed many masking skills

already through self-identification and hours of practice, but I

still manage to get into some serious trouble with colleagues, etc.

unless given supports. One biggie is that I have difficulty seeing

chain-of-command, and see people, in the context of work colleagues,

mostly by what resources they provide for my students. I had to be

given a face-to-face directive of placing all requests for program

resources through the principal first, even if the next step would be

making the request through the sped or some other office anyway,

because to just go to the source without making that first step

is " going over his/her head. " While that made no natural logical

sense to me, and seems a waste of everyone's time, it is a necessary

positive reinforcer for the principal as next-in-line.

To get an intellectual handle on this, I thought of my college

classes, and remembered that psychologists use animal models to study

human behavior because animal social patterning is simpler, and so

clearer to observe. So, at work, I keep a wolf-pack in mind, and I'm

a middlin' member, above EAs and other support staff, but I am not

that close to the top dog. I have to pass the ones closer to top dog

first, so that their position as higher up in the heirarchy is

reinforced. This took some time with some nature channels, watching

group animals, to recognize that NTs need this reinforcement and how

that structure helps the group survive. With that idea in mind, it is

easier for me to do " chain of command " time consumers. The social

time consumers, for NTs are how they show respect. Showing your

feelings of respect in the autie/aspie way, is not something they are

comfortable with. And doing social time consumers such as climbing

chain of command, is a very " simple " skill for NTs.

After " coming out " regarding being NVLD diagnosed and therefore

probably Aspie (no surprised looks at this one), my boss and the

school sped social worker are providing " accomodation and

remediation " to ensure that the work that I indeed do very well

(academic and basic social navigation instruction of children) is not

impeded, as it has been the last couple of years, by social

misconceptions and communication errors. However, I must also do my

part. I already " mask " many things by having reconditioned myself

to " appropriate " basic facial expressions, rehearsed basic social

interaction conversation patterns, holding back on (most) implusive

conversational responses to take additional time for mental editing,

restraining my natural extreme emotional responses as much as

possible until I can privately express them, and of course, the

obvious no rocking, no talking to oneself in public, etc.

When the sped social worker explains a proper word phrasing pattern

for polite disagreement with a co-worker, as she did yesterday, it is

my job to rehearse that so as to incorporate it into my next

interactions with my colleagues. I took a rough " whack at it " for the

first half of the pattern she gave me (give direct acknowledgment

that you understand how they feel or peceive the situation rather

than leaving your understanding assumed), later that afternoon, with

someone who is understanding my situation so offense will hopefully

be minimal if I do it wrong. My principal mentioned, on leaving an

IEP meeting, " well, two things down...(sigh) " In this case, to

directly demonstrate my understanding of her situation, I chose

a " mirror " metaphor rather than a matching personal experience ... " I

think you mean, one pebble down, a mountain to go. " I did so with a

light voice, and sitting in a relaxed way while partially looking at

her. She looked startled, and then smiled as she walked away. NTs

live to mirror, and my restating her concern with (finally!) proper

NT word choice, body language, and voice, made her feel good. This

was not insincere on my part... I did know how she felt about a

mountain of work and not enough time. This time, for the first time

intentionally in my life, I was able to communicate that

understanding to a social superior. I'd never intentionally really

had that effect before, as usually when I'm consciously trying to

show that I understand someone's point of view who is socially

equivalent or above me, I come across as sycophantic (insincere),

even though I mean what I'm saying. I felt good about finally having

a little success with this.

Now to refine. The second half of polite disagreement, evidently, is

to use a modifier phrase that makes it seem as if your disagreement

is not from you, but from an outside " authority " source (e.g., making

a reference to the top dog in the pack). That you are in agreement

with that " outside authority " is seriously de-emphasized or refuted,

even if that isn't true, so as to emphasize your first part of your

statement regarding understanding their feelings. This is the hardest

thing, I think, for people like us who are making masking efforts ...

creating lies regarding state of self in order to conform or

appear " sincere and caring. " Talk about paradox! We are " too honest

for our own good. "

Boy, oh boy, am I going to need practice on this one.

Is it how I naturally respond? Heck no. Do I feel that it is unfair

that others can express themselves naturally and get treated well?

Heck yes. Life isn't fair. Really. It isn't. Just ask my mother, who,

when confined to a wheelchair, took offense at a building that had

about 20 wide (about 2-foot wide, 5 inch deep) stairs but no ramp,

and took off down the stairs in her wheelchair, where the wheels got

stuck halfway down and she sat there hollering for help. It totally

freaked everyone else out to see a little old lady stuck halfway down

concrete steps, and the building had a ramp six months later.

NTs can build a ramp for us if they have the proper training and

concern, just like the trained construction workers built that ramp

noted above. Some NTs actually will chose the ramp for their own

movement toward connection with you. I also have the choice to use it

or not, but if I don't, I am also chosing not to reach the goals I

have for my students and for myself. I am blessed to be surrounded by

people whose job it is to educate all children, and therefore have

various degress of training in autism-spectrum. They are building

ramps for me... by guiding me in building additional rehearsed social

interaction patterns, and by acting as intermediaries, showing

patience, and seeking understanding.

Once they are fully in place, and the concrete has solidified, I am

the one who has to use those ramps to get where I need to go. Even

though this creates fear and stress at the heights involved, I've

done it with basic introductory conversations, with basic facial

expressions... with guidance, time and practice, I can master this

stuff too.

Wanda... if you want that birthday party, retirement party, and other

social reinforcers from the NTs around you... reciprocate. Give them

what they need to be comfortable.

>

> Hi Rhonda and ,

> You all are soooooooo right about the kinds of jobs ACs have.

Limited

> contact with society & regimentation. (Hey,

yuhwantfrieswiththat???)

> Either that or being delegated/relegated to a job you don't like but

> needs to be done (read caregiver) just to make ends meet. BTW:

These

> " scandal laden stars ought to be mandated to give us who work our

asses

> off THEIR SALARIES so WE can make it without charity. Just a

> thought...<sigh>

> I have worked 8 years at a retirement home's dining room facility

> fulltime. Residents there enjoy me and " miss me " whenever I'm

off/gone.

> Management has made improvements since some people have left and I

like

> working for them. TOLERATION......UGGGGGH! Give me ACCEPTANCE

anyday

> over that other crap!! It used to be back in the 1950's

that " loyalty,

> reliability & dependability " mattered on the job. In my 8 years

there,

> I have seen numerous " bailings out " when people are needed, having

to

> work shorthanded, people who were in managerial positions

(American) who

> couldn't spell worth beans and couldn't even properly fill out an

> application without some kind of help. And....., here I am where I

> am-making slighly less than $ 10.00 hrly! Being a single AC who is

> able to do some socializing, I am NOT impressed with my job title

as an

> introductory " icebreaker " within a material world where yuppiedom

and

> jaunts to Europe are constantly the order in conversations. I often

> feel sooooooooooooooo out there in left field-y'know " Never did/done

> it/been there " kind of thing. I don't have high tech gadgets or a

> passport to my own name. When I DO turn 50 in a few years I want

to

> wear that bridal/deb/quinceceanera gown. I want that aquamarine &

> diamond ring. I want a complete dayspa treatment-complete with mole

> removal & such. So, yes, I have been preparing for then. If

qustions

> are asked about " what I'd like for my BD " , I'll say, " I have

previously

> missed milestones in my life (due to AS) when I SHOULD HAVE

> had/celebrated these lifetime milestones. I would love nothing more

> than to experience all this before I die/my health gives out to the

> extent I am unable to enjoy life to the fullest. "

> Sorry for the rant,

> Wanda

>

>

> http://community.webtv.net/tikigalharkins/LETSTALKASPERGERS

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Rhonda,

Interesting you brought up the " sheltered workshops " topic. Here in NC,

they are talking about fazing out these programs for

disabled/developmentally/neurologically disabled citizens. Thus, their

jobs will be " mainstreamed " /outsourced into the regular working society.

IMHO, I'm not sure if this is a good call on NC's behalf. Not everybody

can handle the stresses of certain work (let alone have the capabilities

to perform the work necessary.) I do feel that mainstream corpoate

america is unprepared for this action. They are not trained well in

handling diversity issues and remain ignorant as far as " differences "

within the workplace/school/social environments. I just feel that it

does indeed " take a village. " In this case, IMHO, the " village " here is

failing it's people. What's your thoughts/take on this NC issue? I

already wrote Raleigh my POV on this case.

Thanks,

Wanda

http://community.webtv.net/tikigalharkins/LETSTALKASPERGERS