Re: medical vs snake oil business

[Guest guest]

T. Knecht, D.C.:

From the gist of your post, it seems to me in my opinion of course, that

you are here extolling the virtues of chiropractic care. You are in a

business to make money and influence people, otherwise you would not do

what you do for free. Or, would you?

The mass majority of people here don't really worry about you and your

business and what stated, " a well known neurosurgeon in the chiari

community has referred patients to me. " What percentage of the AMA

medical community has ever referred patients to chiropractors? Do you

have that figure handy as well as your " apples to oranges " fact

regarding the " medical malpractice " killing people daily? I'd love to

see you post your figures. You do have them, don't you?

It looks to me as if you are trolling for business. Then again, you

could also be seeing how you can mold your business to those patients

who see medical doctors instead of the chiropractic community. If not,

where am I wrong?

Tell me this if you would: How many patients have *you* referred to an

AMA medical doctor or surgeon? How seriously are you taken by the AMA

medical community? How many patients are killed or seriously injured by

the chiropractic community each year? How many plane loads of people

would that be?

Yes, others are entitled to their opinion, even you. However, when it

looks to a layman such as myself that you are trolling for business for

yourself and others in your chiropractic community, I feel it is my duty

to stand up and have my say about your profession. I personally think

that the chiropractic community is NOT anywhere close to being as

educated as the medical community, although chiropractors do make a ton

of money plying your trade. If you don't make lots of money, then why

do it? Why not be a medical doctor or surgeon? We all know that

medical doctors make far more money than a chiropractor, or should

anyway as their education alone costs hundreds of thousands of dollars

more than that of a chiropractor.

If you want to watch and listen, no one will stop you. If you sound

like you are extolling the virtues of your work as a chiropractor or

seem to be trolling for business, there are lots here that will stand up

to you and your profession, as you call it. Me? I don't have a lot of

respect for chiropractors as you can tell, I think they deal in the

voo-doo business that is as close to a snake oil salesman as that

" profession " ever was.

Tom in NC - who does not believe in chiropractors (they are NOT real

doctors as they'd like you to believe)

Subject: new member

: I am a new member to this group. I do not have chiari. However, I do

treat

: patients with this condition.

:

: I am a chiropractor. ........................................ You

may email me

: seperately if you like.

...............................................................

: I am a Chiropractor.

.................................................... I have been in

: private practice for 7 years.

:

........snipped..........................................................

....................................

: As far as adjusting Chiari patients, I have successfully worked with

several

: in my practice. As a matter of fact, a well known neurosurgeon in the

chiari

: community has referred patients to me. ..The neurosurgeon is totally

amazed and does not

: recommend her to undergo surgery.

:

: I know that you have heard of some horror stories when it comes to

: chiropractic. ...................................... The AMA has

done a good job of

: pulling these stories out of the woodwork. But if we compare apples

to

: apples, the 8th leading cause of death in the world is medical

malpractice.

: That is equivalent to three airplanes crashing and killing everyone on

board

: every other day. Also, on the list, you hear of many of the patients

that

: have undergone surgery or taken a drug and they have serious

repercussions

: for doing so. And some of them wish not to be living in that much

pain.

:

: What I am trying to impress on you is that when stating your opinion,

please

: do just that. Know your facts and do not put out erroneous ones.

...........A chiropractor that is

: educated on Chiari is a great asset for Chiari patients. The chances

of

: greater harm to these patients is very low considering that this is

non

: invasive. ...........snipped.................

: Sincerely,

: T. Knecht, D.C.

[Guest guest]

The issue here is not whether or not one

believes in chiropractic; personally, I do not -- the issue is: does the

chiropractor have a right to express opinion. In that they most certainly

do. I do not have ACM but my daughter does -- I am looking for help,

assistance, and information from wherever I can find it. I am open-minded

enough to listen to all.

Just my opinion.

Tom wrote:

T. Knecht, D.C.:

>From the gist of your post, it seems to me in my opinion of course,

that

you are here extolling the virtues of chiropractic care. You

are in a

business to make money and influence people, otherwise you would not

do

what you do for free. Or, would you?

The mass majority of people here don't really worry about you and your

business and what stated, "a well known neurosurgeon in the chiari

community has referred patients to me." What percentage of the

AMA

medical community has ever referred patients to chiropractors?

Do you

have that figure handy as well as your "apples to oranges" fact

regarding the "medical malpractice" killing people daily? I'd

love to

see you post your figures. You do have them, don't you?

It looks to me as if you are trolling for business. Then again,

you

could also be seeing how you can mold your business to those patients

who see medical doctors instead of the chiropractic community.

If not,

where am I wrong?

Tell me this if you would: How many patients have *you* referred

to an

AMA medical doctor or surgeon? How seriously are you taken by

the AMA

medical community? How many patients are killed or seriously

injured by

the chiropractic community each year? How many plane loads of

people

would that be?

Yes, others are entitled to their opinion, even you. However,

when it

looks to a layman such as myself that you are trolling for business

for

yourself and others in your chiropractic community, I feel it is my

duty

to stand up and have my say about your profession. I personally

think

that the chiropractic community is NOT anywhere close to being as

educated as the medical community, although chiropractors do make a

ton

of money plying your trade. If you don't make lots of money,

then why

do it? Why not be a medical doctor or surgeon? We all know

that

medical doctors make far more money than a chiropractor, or should

anyway as their education alone costs hundreds of thousands of dollars

more than that of a chiropractor.

If you want to watch and listen, no one will stop you. If you

sound

like you are extolling the virtues of your work as a chiropractor or

seem to be trolling for business, there are lots here that will stand

up

to you and your profession, as you call it. Me? I don't

have a lot of

respect for chiropractors as you can tell, I think they deal in the

voo-doo business that is as close to a snake oil salesman as that

"profession" ever was.

Tom in NC - who does not believe in chiropractors (they are NOT real

doctors as they'd like you to believe)

Subject: new member

: I am a new member to this group. I do not have chiari.

However, I do

treat

: patients with this condition.

:

: I am a chiropractor. ........................................

You

may email me

: seperately if you like.

...............................................................

: I am a Chiropractor.

.................................................... I have been

in

: private practice for 7 years.

:

........snipped..........................................................

....................................

: As far as adjusting Chiari patients, I have successfully worked with

several

: in my practice. As a matter of fact, a well known neurosurgeon

in the

chiari

: community has referred patients to me. ..The neurosurgeon is

totally

amazed and does not

: recommend her to undergo surgery.

:

: I know that you have heard of some horror stories when it comes to

: chiropractic. ......................................

The AMA has

done a good job of

: pulling these stories out of the woodwork. But if we compare

apples

to

: apples, the 8th leading cause of death in the world is medical

malpractice.

: That is equivalent to three airplanes crashing and killing everyone

on

board

: every other day. Also, on the list, you hear of many of the

patients

that

: have undergone surgery or taken a drug and they have serious

repercussions

: for doing so. And some of them wish not to be living in that

much

pain.

:

: What I am trying to impress on you is that when stating your opinion,

please

: do just that. Know your facts and do not put out erroneous

ones.

...........A chiropractor that is

: educated on Chiari is a great asset for Chiari patients. The

chances

of

: greater harm to these patients is very low considering that this

is

non

: invasive. ...........snipped.................

: Sincerely,

: T. Knecht, D.C.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

To: Whomever

You made my point exactly.

People here on this list are wanting to learn about the condition they either have, don't have or perceive to have. No one is here talking business EXCEPT the chiropractor. No one stands to make money from posting here EXCEPT the chiropractors.

A lot of people came to this list as I read, *after* the Dateline report. On the Dateline report, did you hear a word mentioned on how a chiropractor was going to attempt to make a person well? I didn't, but maybe I missed something? Let the chiropractors troll for business elsewhere, *not* where people are so susceptible to quick answers for the pain they are in. The chiropractor should have kept to himself, his profession that is, should not have been talked about at all. Do you know what other members do for a living, if they even have one? I don't, but maybe I've missed that, too? Have I?

However, I haven't seen anyone extolling the virtues of their profession. I did see that as did others with the 'new member' chiropractor: he said he was a chiropractor, he made statements about the medical doctors (apples vs oranges, etc.) and more.

What he was doing was telling US about HIS business. When have you ever seen an AMA medical doctor on this list or any other for that matter, extolling the virtues of the AMA medical community? I haven't, that's for sure.

And as far as treating the patient and not the disease, there is something wrong with that, as far as I'm concerned anyway. Yes, the good Lord might have gotten you to the compassionate DC you spoke of. But for a chiropractor to even *think* he can treat you for the Chiari symptoms is out of his league. You will never see a chiropractor working past the skin of a client, whereas a surgeon will work next to your soul. And I thank the good Lord for letting people have access to these miracle workers, the medical community and it's medical doctors and surgeons. Chiropractors will never hold a candle to a qualified, medical AMA doctor.

Tom in NC

new member : I am a new member to this group. I do not have chiari. However, I do treat : patients with this condition. : : I am a chiropractor. ........................................ You may email me : seperately if you like. .............................................................. : I am a Chiropractor. ................................................... I have been in : private practice for 7 years. : .......snipped.......................................................... ................................... : As far as adjusting Chiari patients, I have successfully worked with several : in my practice. As a matter of fact, a well known neurosurgeon in the chiari : community has referred patients to me. ..The neurosurgeon is totally amazed and does not : recommend her to undergo surgery. : : I know that you have heard of some horror stories when it comes to : chiropractic. ...................................... The AMA has done a good job of : pulling these stories out of the woodwork. But if we compare apples to : apples, the 8th leading cause of death in the world is medical malpractice. : That is equivalent to three airplanes crashing and killing everyone on board : every other day. Also, on the list, you hear of many of the patients that : have undergone surgery or taken a drug and they have serious repercussions : for doing so. And some of them wish not to be living in that much pain. : : What I am trying to impress on you is that when stating your opinion, please : do just that. Know your facts and do not put out erroneous ones. ..........A chiropractor that is : educated on Chiari is a great asset for Chiari patients. The chances of : greater harm to these patients is very low considering that this is non : invasive. ...........snipped................. : Sincerely, : T. Knecht, D.C. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ WACMA Site: http://www.pressenter.com/~wacma Your Personal support group member page: http://www.eGroups.com/group/chiari/ **Avoid List Congestion: Unsubscribe from this list: mailto:chiari-unsubscribeegroups Contact list mgmt: mailto:chiari-owneregroups ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/chiari - Simplifying group communications

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[Guest guest]

We're putting much too much of our energy and frustrations in the wrong

place. There's room for any and all opinions, professional or not, here at

this support site. ly, I'd like to see more " professional " information

here. A wider berth of information may help the patient make better choices.

Please, give the rest of us the benefit of the doubt that we can make our own

judgments regarding our type of treatment and care. I think most of us are

intelligent enough to discern whether or not a chiropractor, surgeon or

snake-oil salesman is best for our treatment.

[Guest guest]

I have had my share of snake oil doctors as well. One medical doctors said

that I was faking having Mitral Valve Prolaspe and that she could cure it in

2 weeks with Valium. Told her that I have the echocardiogram results and

the knowlegde of a very caring and competent University cardiologist on my

side. There are good and bad doctors, whoever they all over the world. It

is just that the best ones are quiet and carry on their good work in the

shadows.

Hello to everyone.

______________________________________________

FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com

Sign up at http://www.mail.com?sr=mc.mk.mcm.tag001

The issue here is not whether or not one

believes in chiropractic; personally, I do not -- the issue is: does the

chiropractor have a right to express opinion. In that they most certainly

do. I do not have ACM but my daughter does -- I am looking for help,

assistance, and information from wherever I can find it. I am open-minded

enough to listen to all.

Just my opinion.

Tom wrote:

T. Knecht, D.C.:

>From the gist of your post, it seems to me in my opinion of course,

that

you are here extolling the virtues of chiropractic care. You

are in a

business to make money and influence people, otherwise you would not

do

what you do for free. Or, would you?

The mass majority of people here don't really worry about you and your

business and what stated, "a well known neurosurgeon in the chiari

community has referred patients to me." What percentage of the

AMA

medical community has ever referred patients to chiropractors?

Do you

have that figure handy as well as your "apples to oranges" fact

regarding the "medical malpractice" killing people daily? I'd

love to

see you post your figures. You do have them, don't you?

It looks to me as if you are trolling for business. Then again,

you

could also be seeing how you can mold your business to those patients

who see medical doctors instead of the chiropractic community.

If not,

where am I wrong?

Tell me this if you would: How many patients have *you* referred

to an

AMA medical doctor or surgeon? How seriously are you taken by

the AMA

medical community? How many patients are killed or seriously

injured by

the chiropractic community each year? How many plane loads of

people

would that be?

Yes, others are entitled to their opinion, even you. However,

when it

looks to a layman such as myself that you are trolling for business

for

yourself and others in your chiropractic community, I feel it is my

duty

to stand up and have my say about your profession. I personally

think

that the chiropractic community is NOT anywhere close to being as

educated as the medical community, although chiropractors do make a

ton

of money plying your trade. If you don't make lots of money,

then why

do it? Why not be a medical doctor or surgeon? We all know

that

medical doctors make far more money than a chiropractor, or should

anyway as their education alone costs hundreds of thousands of dollars

more than that of a chiropractor.

If you want to watch and listen, no one will stop you. If you

sound

like you are extolling the virtues of your work as a chiropractor or

seem to be trolling for business, there are lots here that will stand

up

to you and your profession, as you call it. Me? I don't

have a lot of

respect for chiropractors as you can tell, I think they deal in the

voo-doo business that is as close to a snake oil salesman as that

"profession" ever was.

Tom in NC - who does not believe in chiropractors (they are NOT real

doctors as they'd like you to believe)

Subject: new member

: I am a new member to this group. I do not have chiari.

However, I do

treat

: patients with this condition.

:

: I am a chiropractor. ........................................

You

may email me

: seperately if you like.

...............................................................

: I am a Chiropractor.

.................................................... I have been

in

: private practice for 7 years.

:

........snipped..........................................................

....................................

: As far as adjusting Chiari patients, I have successfully worked with

several

: in my practice. As a matter of fact, a well known neurosurgeon

in the

chiari

: community has referred patients to me. ..The neurosurgeon is

totally

amazed and does not

: recommend her to undergo surgery.

:

: I know that you have heard of some horror stories when it comes to

: chiropractic. ......................................

The AMA has

done a good job of

: pulling these stories out of the woodwork. But if we compare

apples

to

: apples, the 8th leading cause of death in the world is medical

malpractice.

: That is equivalent to three airplanes crashing and killing everyone

on

board

: every other day. Also, on the list, you hear of many of the

patients

that

: have undergone surgery or taken a drug and they have serious

repercussions

: for doing so. And some of them wish not to be living in that

much

pain.

:

: What I am trying to impress on you is that when stating your opinion,

please

: do just that. Know your facts and do not put out erroneous

ones.

...........A chiropractor that is

: educated on Chiari is a great asset for Chiari patients. The

chances

of

: greater harm to these patients is very low considering that this

is

non

: invasive. ...........snipped.................

: Sincerely,

: T. Knecht, D.C.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

WACMA Site: http://www.pressenter.com/~wacma

Your Personal support group member page: http://www.eGroups.com/group/chiari/

**Avoid List Congestion:

Unsubscribe from this list: mailto:chiari-unsubscribeegroups

Contact list mgmt: mailto:chiari-owneregroups

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WACMA Site: http://www.pressenter.com/~wacma

Your Personal support group member page: http://www.eGroups.com/group/chiari/ **Avoid List Congestion: Unsubscribe from this list: mailto:chiari-unsubscribeegroups Contact list mgmt: mailto:chiari-owneregroups

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[Guest guest]

Dear Tom,

What a post! You put a lot of energy into that one. Why are you so hostile

to chiropractic? I am not sure, but I do know that you have a lot of wrong

information due to what you wrote. I am not in this group to debate. I am

here to offer those who are interested another avenue to explore. I have

nothing to gain from this, but the opportunity to help others (and have some

others type nasty things about me personally). I took an oath as a doctor to

help people and that is all that I am trying to do.

My best wishes to you in your pursuit to happiness.

T. Knecht, D.C.

[Guest guest]

Oh?

Didn't your know that this is a subject for OFF-LIST?

Why not write to Chip and the other list owners, etc., for

clarification.

Do NOT write to me privately anymore, I think your chosen *BUSINESS* is

a bunch of Hooey. If you don't understand that, look up Voo-Doo, same

thing. Go troll for *business* elsewhere and STOP BAITING ME, WRITING

ME (both on and off list!), etc.

If you want to troll for business among the very weak and vulnerable,

that's your business as that's how you make money. I've also gotten

just ONE nasty reply from someone that works for you that is also ON

this list. What a pair you two make! Now, get OUT of my mailbox!

Tom

Re: medical vs snake oil business

: Dear Tom,

:

: What a post! You put a lot of energy into that one. Why are you so

hostile

: to chiropractic? I am not sure, but I do know that you have a lot of

wrong

: information due to what you wrote. I am not in this group to debate.

I am

: here to offer those who are interested another avenue to explore. I

have

: nothing to gain from this, but the opportunity to help others (and

have some

: others type nasty things about me personally). I took an oath as a

doctor to

: help people and that is all that I am trying to do.

:

: My best wishes to you in your pursuit to happiness.

:

: T. Knecht, D.C.

:

: ----------------------------------------------------------------------

--

: WACMA Site: http://www.pressenter.com/~wacma

: Your Personal support group member page:

http://www.eGroups.com/group/chiari/

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: Unsubscribe from this list: mailto:chiari-unsubscribeegroups

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: ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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:

:

[Guest guest]

Tom, and fellow Chiarians,

Lets put an end to this. I am thankful for all the education and information I

am getting here. Questions foster more information and I am glad for ALL who

participate. I want to continue learning.... Please take this offline and lets

get back to useful Chiari information.

Thank you,

Kathy in NJ

> Dear Tom,

>

> What a post! You put a lot of energy into that one. Why are you so

> hostile

> to chiropractic? I am not sure, but I do know that you have a lot of wrong

>

> information due to what you wrote. I am not in this group to debate. I am

>

> here to offer those who are interested another avenue to explore. I have

> nothing to gain from this, but the opportunity to help others (and have

> some

> others type nasty things about me personally). I took an oath as a doctor

> to

> help people and that is all that I am trying to do.

>

> My best wishes to you in your pursuit to happiness.

>

> T. Knecht, D.C.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> WACMA Site: http://www.pressenter.com/~wacma

> Your Personal support group member page:

> http://www.eGroups.com/group/chiari/

> **Avoid List Congestion:

> Unsubscribe from this list: mailto:chiari-unsubscribeegroups

> Contact list mgmt: mailto:chiari-owneregroups

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- Talk to your group with your own voice!

> -- /VoiceChatPage?listName=chiari & m=1

>

>

>

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