Re: Engagement Party - need some advice

[Guest guest]

Have I been afraid of my mom? Heck, yes. Deathly. When I was young,

I knew that no one could hear the rages (we lived a long ways out in

the country). I knew that if my parents ever got divorced that my

sister and I would be stuck with her.

I do have to ask, though. Someone who had you arrested for assault

thinks they deserve to throw an engagement party for you and your

fiancee?

I have learned the hard way that at least in my situation, and

perhaps in yours, that there appears to be no way to please a BPD

mother. Control, and absolute control, seems to be the modus

operandi for this creature.

My mother threw a huge screaming fit when I brought my boyfriend-

soon-to-be-fiance home to meet them. We did nothing to deserve it.

She wants to be in absolute control of everything and for me to even

show interest in someone other than her is treason. Abandonment, or

perceived abandonment, launches the very worst in my BPD mom, and

from reading posts around here for a while, it would seem I'm far

from alone.

I know from experience that you can be a squeaky clean overachiever

and still not gain the acceptance of one's mother--at least in my

case. Anyone who would assault you and then claim it was their right

is quite clealy addicted to control and will likely to anything to

keep you in their clutches.

I don't know if I know specifically what to do, but surely

documenting the heck out of all she's done already and at least

consulting some professionals about it would be wise. It will likely

only get more escalated the more you move closer to the wedding.

It totally sucks that my most vivid memory of our wedding day is my

mother throwing a screaming fit, awakening myself and some of my

bridesmaids who were staying in my parents' home. If you think there

is any chance of that happening, by all means forbid her to come.

>

> Hello. My name is . Until last week I was just unlucky to

have

> such a difficult mother. Sure I thought she was crazy but no label

> seemed to fit her personality. I thought I was alone in this

(along

> with my family of course). Then my fiancee found this site and we

> realized this is the problem my mom has had as long as I've known

her.

> I have been trying to deal with this my whole life. When I was

very

> young I used to always side with my mom when my parents fought. I

> thought my dad was no good when got mom so " upset " . As I became a

> teenager I started to realize that something was wrong with the way

> they related to each other. It wasn't just my dad's fault.

> Eventually I became annoyed with both my parents and just wanted to

> fix things. I spent years trying to make things right only to end

up

> frustrated. When I finished college and began my career I sought

out

> counseling. Over the last few years i have been embracing the idea

> that I can't fix the situation, especially my mom's behavior. Now

> realize others have faced what I am facing. I feel like now is the

> time to really take back control of the quality of my life. Before

I

> get into the situation at hand i would like to give a little

> background information.

>

> I moved out when I was twenty but maintained regular contact with

my

> family. I was still in college at the time. When I got my first

job

> I mustered up the courage to see a therapist. I first tried to

take a

> break from my mom at the suggestion of my first therapist. It

lasted

> five to six weeks. I made the mistake of telling my mom that i was

> seeing a therapist and that she had suggested limiting contact with

> her. My mom used this information to berate my therapist for

saying

> such a thing. I eventually started seeing a different therapist

and

> have not said anything to my mom out of fear of being attacked and

> having what i say be manipulated. This despite the fact my mom

says

> that " I am a sick boy and need a therapist " . Over the last four

years

> i have had alternating periods of time where I've had no contact

with

> my mom. The longest period was for eleven months starting last

> January. My mom had had me arrested for " assaulting " her. In

reality

> she assaulted me. She thinks that it is okay to hit me because

she is

> my " mother " . She is very manipulative and law enforcement and

courts

> tend to side with convincing BPD's. Fortunately the case was

dropped

> and I did not get convicted of of any crime. However I ended

spending

> a lot on a lawyer. I was so angry and wanted nothing to do with

her.

> I told myself that this was it for good. No contact was

relieving,

> yet i ended up wishing I could have a normal relationship with my

> family. I had a great time with my fiancee's family but at timea I

> felt sad and wished I was with my own. I now realize this can't

be.

> Much to my detriment, I re-established contact with my mom after

> Thanksgiving. I had talked about things with my therapist

> extensively. I was careful to draw boundaries but it didn't work.

She

> kept pushing. It didn't help that I proposed to my girlfriend over

> Christmas break. My mom felt entitled to help plan a wedding and

> engagement party. Needless to say , it's been pretty miserable.

My

> fiancee didn't really understand the fact that my mom isn't

normal.

> She thought if I just acted better and avoided " hot " topics,things

> would be fine. Well, they didn't end up fine. My mom caused a

scene

> with my fiancee recently because my fiancee didn't stop the car so

> that she could help an injured seagull. My mom called her evil and

> got out of the car. She said she couldn't be around her. Since

> reading info from BPD central my fiancee now undersatnds.

>

> We don't want my mom to come to our engagement party. My family

is

> not on board. Despite making their lives miserable, they still say

> she is your mom. To me that is an excuse for not a taking a

stand. I

> am scared. She has done violent things in the past when she is

upset.

> One time I didn't answer the door and she ripped open a bag of

> garbage and spilled the contents all over the hallway of my

building.

> Has anyone ever been afraid like I am now? Any advice?

>

[Guest guest]

Dear GotHam,

I am getting married in two months and my NADA doesn't even know

about the wedding. When I told her about the engagement she got

really pissed off and told me that i was a disappointment to her.

so...i just decided not to involve her. I've been NC with her for

almost 3 months now. If you are asking for advice, maybe you should

leave NADA out of your wedding plans as well, maybe its a good time

to take a break from her again so you can focus on you and your

upcoming marriage. In your post, you said:

No contact was relieving,

> yet i ended up wishing I could have a normal relationship with my

> family. I had a great time with my fiancee's family but at timea I

> felt sad and wished I was with my own. I now realize this can't

be.

I have really felt the same way you do about this lately. I thought

for a long time that i was sad because i feel like i don't have a

family anymore. and then i realized i wasn't sad because of that, but

because i feel like i no longer have ROOTS. does that make sense? The

ground where my feet have been planted all my life is now gone...like

i have to replant myself somewhere else. lol...im not good at

metaphors or anything, but that is what it feels like. i come from an

italian family, and heritage and roots really mean a lot. to have

that disappear like a carpet from under your feet can be really hard

to deal with. i don't miss the family, because now i realize they

weren't a real family to me to begin with. but as twisted as my

family is....i felt like i had a permanent place in the world.

Anyways....im sure however you decide to handle this will work

out....we all do what we think we need to do. but this is really a

time to put yourself and your fiancee first.

~Sara Jo

>

> Hello. My name is . Until last week I was just unlucky to have

> such a difficult mother. Sure I thought she was crazy but no label

> seemed to fit her personality. I thought I was alone in this (along

> with my family of course). Then my fiancee found this site and we

> realized this is the problem my mom has had as long as I've known

her.

> I have been trying to deal with this my whole life. When I was

very

> young I used to always side with my mom when my parents fought. I

> thought my dad was no good when got mom so " upset " . As I became a

> teenager I started to realize that something was wrong with the way

> they related to each other. It wasn't just my dad's fault.

> Eventually I became annoyed with both my parents and just wanted to

> fix things. I spent years trying to make things right only to end

up

> frustrated. When I finished college and began my career I sought

out

> counseling. Over the last few years i have been embracing the idea

> that I can't fix the situation, especially my mom's behavior. Now

> realize others have faced what I am facing. I feel like now is the

> time to really take back control of the quality of my life. Before I

> get into the situation at hand i would like to give a little

> background information.

>

> I moved out when I was twenty but maintained regular contact with my

> family. I was still in college at the time. When I got my first

job

> I mustered up the courage to see a therapist. I first tried to take

a

> break from my mom at the suggestion of my first therapist. It

lasted

> five to six weeks. I made the mistake of telling my mom that i was

> seeing a therapist and that she had suggested limiting contact with

> her. My mom used this information to berate my therapist for saying

> such a thing. I eventually started seeing a different therapist and

> have not said anything to my mom out of fear of being attacked and

> having what i say be manipulated. This despite the fact my mom says

> that " I am a sick boy and need a therapist " . Over the last four

years

> i have had alternating periods of time where I've had no contact

with

> my mom. The longest period was for eleven months starting last

> January. My mom had had me arrested for " assaulting " her. In

reality

> she assaulted me. She thinks that it is okay to hit me because she

is

> my " mother " . She is very manipulative and law enforcement and

courts

> tend to side with convincing BPD's. Fortunately the case was

dropped

> and I did not get convicted of of any crime. However I ended

spending

> a lot on a lawyer. I was so angry and wanted nothing to do with

her.

> I told myself that this was it for good. No contact was relieving,

> yet i ended up wishing I could have a normal relationship with my

> family. I had a great time with my fiancee's family but at timea I

> felt sad and wished I was with my own. I now realize this can't

be.

> Much to my detriment, I re-established contact with my mom after

> Thanksgiving. I had talked about things with my therapist

> extensively. I was careful to draw boundaries but it didn't work.

She

> kept pushing. It didn't help that I proposed to my girlfriend over

> Christmas break. My mom felt entitled to help plan a wedding and

> engagement party. Needless to say , it's been pretty miserable. My

> fiancee didn't really understand the fact that my mom isn't normal.

> She thought if I just acted better and avoided " hot " topics,things

> would be fine. Well, they didn't end up fine. My mom caused a scene

> with my fiancee recently because my fiancee didn't stop the car so

> that she could help an injured seagull. My mom called her evil and

> got out of the car. She said she couldn't be around her. Since

> reading info from BPD central my fiancee now undersatnds.

>

> We don't want my mom to come to our engagement party. My family is

> not on board. Despite making their lives miserable, they still say

> she is your mom. To me that is an excuse for not a taking a

stand. I

> am scared. She has done violent things in the past when she is

upset.

> One time I didn't answer the door and she ripped open a bag of

> garbage and spilled the contents all over the hallway of my

building.

> Has anyone ever been afraid like I am now? Any advice?

>

[Guest guest]

Sara Jo wrote: <<I thought for a long time that i was sad because i

feel like i don't have a family anymore. and then i realized i

wasn't sad because of that, but because i feel like i no longer have

ROOTS. does that make sense? The ground where my feet have been

planted all my life is now gone...like i have to replant myself

somewhere else. lol...im not good at metaphors or anything, but that

is what it feels like. i come from an italian family, and heritage

and roots really mean a lot. to have that disappear like a carpet

from under your feet can be really hard to deal with. i don't miss

the family, because now i realize they weren't a real family to me

to begin with. but as twisted as my family is....i felt like i had a

permanent place in the world.>>

What a beautifully profound revelation. That we sometimes have to

give up what isn't real anymore. It's sad, but liberating at the

same time. I think we keep in touch with our authentic selves much

easier when we're willing to confront truths (or lies!) in our

lives, and act accordingly. Plant your own roots with your soon-to-

be husband. Your first " family " heritage is humanity -- the Italian

designation is interesting, but not vital.

(Oh, and you ARE good at metaphors!)

{hugs}

Kyla

[Guest guest]

,

I have to give you a lot of credit for attempting an relationship with your

mother after she

had gotten you arrested almost a year earlier. I am not trying to oversimplify

the situation

but from your post,, it seems like it hasn't turned out well. You set up

boundaries and they

haven't been followed.

It is hard for me to be this blunt but here goes, do you really need any other

reason to

stop talking to her, do you need your families permission? When someone says

she is your

Mom, do they not now that she had you arrested, and you had to spend money

getting

your self out of the situation. what kind of mother is that?

For me it would be easy to say, hey outside world, she is my mother, that is why

I gave her

another chance but it really isn't working so I have to walk away again. (At

least I think it

would because my problem is, there is never any hard proof)

I know it is hard because it is your mother, but I liken it to an ex boyfriend

who did you

wrong, and then 11 months later you get back together only to realize they are

the same

shitty person, so you break it off and never see them again, Lesson learned.

Again I know

it is different with a Mother, I just wish it didn't have to be.

Good luck

>

> Hello. My name is . Until last week I was just unlucky to have

> such a difficult mother. Sure I thought she was crazy but no label

> seemed to fit her personality. I thought I was alone in this (along

> with my family of course). Then my fiancee found this site and we

> realized this is the problem my mom has had as long as I've known her.

> I have been trying to deal with this my whole life. When I was very

> young I used to always side with my mom when my parents fought. I

> thought my dad was no good when got mom so " upset " . As I became a

> teenager I started to realize that something was wrong with the way

> they related to each other. It wasn't just my dad's fault.

> Eventually I became annoyed with both my parents and just wanted to

> fix things. I spent years trying to make things right only to end up

> frustrated. When I finished college and began my career I sought out

> counseling. Over the last few years i have been embracing the idea

> that I can't fix the situation, especially my mom's behavior. Now

> realize others have faced what I am facing. I feel like now is the

> time to really take back control of the quality of my life. Before I

> get into the situation at hand i would like to give a little

> background information.

>

> I moved out when I was twenty but maintained regular contact with my

> family. I was still in college at the time. When I got my first job

> I mustered up the courage to see a therapist. I first tried to take a

> break from my mom at the suggestion of my first therapist. It lasted

> five to six weeks. I made the mistake of telling my mom that i was

> seeing a therapist and that she had suggested limiting contact with

> her. My mom used this information to berate my therapist for saying

> such a thing. I eventually started seeing a different therapist and

> have not said anything to my mom out of fear of being attacked and

> having what i say be manipulated. This despite the fact my mom says

> that " I am a sick boy and need a therapist " . Over the last four years

> i have had alternating periods of time where I've had no contact with

> my mom. The longest period was for eleven months starting last

> January. My mom had had me arrested for " assaulting " her. In reality

> she assaulted me. She thinks that it is okay to hit me because she is

> my " mother " . She is very manipulative and law enforcement and courts

> tend to side with convincing BPD's. Fortunately the case was dropped

> and I did not get convicted of of any crime. However I ended spending

> a lot on a lawyer. I was so angry and wanted nothing to do with her.

> I told myself that this was it for good. No contact was relieving,

> yet i ended up wishing I could have a normal relationship with my

> family. I had a great time with my fiancee's family but at timea I

> felt sad and wished I was with my own. I now realize this can't be.

> Much to my detriment, I re-established contact with my mom after

> Thanksgiving. I had talked about things with my therapist

> extensively. I was careful to draw boundaries but it didn't work. She

> kept pushing. It didn't help that I proposed to my girlfriend over

> Christmas break. My mom felt entitled to help plan a wedding and

> engagement party. Needless to say , it's been pretty miserable. My

> fiancee didn't really understand the fact that my mom isn't normal.

> She thought if I just acted better and avoided " hot " topics,things

> would be fine. Well, they didn't end up fine. My mom caused a scene

> with my fiancee recently because my fiancee didn't stop the car so

> that she could help an injured seagull. My mom called her evil and

> got out of the car. She said she couldn't be around her. Since

> reading info from BPD central my fiancee now undersatnds.

>

> We don't want my mom to come to our engagement party. My family is

> not on board. Despite making their lives miserable, they still say

> she is your mom. To me that is an excuse for not a taking a stand. I

> am scared. She has done violent things in the past when she is upset.

> One time I didn't answer the door and she ripped open a bag of

> garbage and spilled the contents all over the hallway of my building.

> Has anyone ever been afraid like I am now? Any advice?

>

[Guest guest]

Well said, lgarter! I agree with you. Some mothers tear up

their " mother " card, and unless we want to keep being victims in the

name of " she's your mother " , we've got to take action to cut them out.

-Kyla

[Guest guest]

Thanks Kyla, this has been one of the hardest lessons for me, and being of

overly

simplicitic mind, I need to think of it in terms of how I would let other people

treat me,

and ironically how this woman who raised me taught me not to crap from anyone

(anyone

but her HA)

I rarely post but often read, I am amazed at how it is so much easier to see in

other

people before I can reconize what I need to do myself.

I am currently bracing myself for grandnada death she is 94 and in ill health,

living with

Nada, for I know in my heart this will be the true test of all I learned in the

last 3 years.

Thanks for always being there with a kind word!

Liza

>

> Well said, lgarter! I agree with you. Some mothers tear up

> their " mother " card, and unless we want to keep being victims in the

> name of " she's your mother " , we've got to take action to cut them out.

>

> -Kyla

>

[Guest guest]

I read Sara Jo's response and thought of a quote by Bach:

" The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of

respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family

grow up under the same roof. "

From " Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah "

I know, without a doubt, God has placed certain people in my life to

fill that void that my NADA could never fill because she is too

selfish and self-absorbed to truly care about any one else. Her love

always was and will always be conditional...mostly conditions I can't

even guess how to meet from one minute to the next. I wish it were

different...but it's not.

Sometimes I think the best we can do is cut our losses and move on.

How many hurts do we have to suffer in the name of " family? "

...you really have given your NADA more chances than she

deserves. I have often feared my NADA would try some legal manuevor

of sorts to disrupt my life...but your NADA actually did it. In some

ways it goes beyond comprehension that any person, let alone your

mother, would make such a claim. You deserve much, much better. It

sounds like you have found a wonderful " true family " to marry

into...I think maybe it's God's gift to you for your prior life.

Whatever you decide...make it be about YOUR happiness and YOUR

Fiancees happiness...it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks!

Be well!

>

> I have really felt the same way you do about this lately. I thought

> for a long time that i was sad because i feel like i don't have a

> family anymore. and then i realized i wasn't sad because of that,

but

> because i feel like i no longer have ROOTS. does that make sense?

The

> ground where my feet have been planted all my life is now

gone...like

> i have to replant myself somewhere else. lol...im not good at

> metaphors or anything, but that is what it feels like. i come from

an

> italian family, and heritage and roots really mean a lot. to have

> that disappear like a carpet from under your feet can be really

hard

> to deal with. i don't miss the family, because now i realize they

> weren't a real family to me to begin with. but as twisted as my

> family is....i felt like i had a permanent place in the world.

[Guest guest]

What a great quote. Peoples' place in our lives should be dictated by

mutual respect and happiness in each others' presence, not necessarily

blood. Otherwise, if you have " family " that lets you down, and you

see blood relatives as your only option, you're technically alone!

[Guest guest]

Hi Guys,

I've been NC with my Nada since last week. I feel like I have no family and

even though I'm not close to anyone in particular because my Nada was the

Gatekeeper to any family relationship I had, I still feel cheated and understand

hearing someone say they feel they have no roots. It's comforting to be around

people that we have a history with. I have one sibling, a sister, who looks a

lot like me. My mother ruined my relationship with her and now we haven't

spoken for four years. I miss seeing someone who is my blood relative who

shares some of my family's physical characteristics. My Dad passed away 10

years ago. My sister has his eyes and some of his mannerisms. I always took

comfort when I could see a little bit of my Dad in her. Not being around family

makes me feel adrift and alone. Sorry - I'm really struggling right now

because I'm new to the material I've been reading about on this board and the

true gravity of the situation is finally

hitting me. I am realizing that this isn't going to get better - my Nada is

never going to have a moment when she realizes what she has done to me. I'm

grieving for what will never be possible and all of the collateral damage she

has caused.

Also - even though I had a blow up with her, I wasn't actually planning to go

NC. I did it after the shock of reading the Eggshells book and the stories on

this board. I'm surprised that what seems to be the end of my relationship with

her came quietly. Other than telling my husband that I had decided to cut it

off, it seems strange that something so momentous would just " happen. " Does

that make sense?

Tag

Re: Engagement Party - need some advice

I read Sara Jo's response and thought of a quote by Bach:

" The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of

respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family

grow up under the same roof. "

From " Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah "

I know, without a doubt, God has placed certain people in my life to

fill that void that my NADA could never fill because she is too

selfish and self-absorbed to truly care about any one else. Her love

always was and will always be conditional. ..mostly conditions I can't

even guess how to meet from one minute to the next. I wish it were

different... but it's not.

Sometimes I think the best we can do is cut our losses and move on.

How many hurts do we have to suffer in the name of " family? "

...you really have given your NADA more chances than she

deserves. I have often feared my NADA would try some legal manuevor

of sorts to disrupt my life...but your NADA actually did it. In some

ways it goes beyond comprehension that any person, let alone your

mother, would make such a claim. You deserve much, much better. It

sounds like you have found a wonderful " true family " to marry

into...I think maybe it's God's gift to you for your prior life.

Whatever you decide...make it be about YOUR happiness and YOUR

Fiancees happiness... it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks!

Be well!

>

> I have really felt the same way you do about this lately. I thought

> for a long time that i was sad because i feel like i don't have a

> family anymore. and then i realized i wasn't sad because of that,

but

> because i feel like i no longer have ROOTS. does that make sense?

The

> ground where my feet have been planted all my life is now

gone...like

> i have to replant myself somewhere else. lol...im not good at

> metaphors or anything, but that is what it feels like. i come from

an

> italian family, and heritage and roots really mean a lot. to have

> that disappear like a carpet from under your feet can be really

hard

> to deal with. i don't miss the family, because now i realize they

> weren't a real family to me to begin with. but as twisted as my

> family is....i felt like i had a permanent place in the world.

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[Guest guest]

You said...

<<<Also - even though I had a blow up with her, I wasn't actually

planning to go NC. I did it after the shock of reading the

Eggshells book and the stories on this board. I'm surprised that

what seems to be the end of my relationship with her came quietly.

Other than telling my husband that I had decided to cut it off, it

seems strange that something so momentous would just " happen. " Does

that make sense?>>>

My last straw wasn't our worst arguement.......I just snapped, had

enough, was full of her sh*t. I found out about BPD 6 weeks into NC

and have been seeing my life with new eyes.

The thought of going back even LC is disturbing to me......I don't

think I could even fake it with her anymore. I'm just done....its

scary but true.

drlingirl

>

> >

>

> > I have really felt the same way you do about this lately. I

thought

>

> > for a long time that i was sad because i feel like i don't have

a

>

> > family anymore. and then i realized i wasn't sad because of

that,

>

> but

>

> > because i feel like i no longer have ROOTS. does that make

sense?

>

> The

>

> > ground where my feet have been planted all my life is now

>

> gone...like

>

> > i have to replant myself somewhere else. lol...im not good at

>

> > metaphors or anything, but that is what it feels like. i come

from

>

> an

>

> > italian family, and heritage and roots really mean a lot. to

have

>

> > that disappear like a carpet from under your feet can be really

>

> hard

>

> > to deal with. i don't miss the family, because now i realize

they

>

> > weren't a real family to me to begin with. but as twisted as my

>

> > family is....i felt like i had a permanent place in the world.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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> Be a better friend, newshound, and

> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ditto that...I went NC a little over 6 weeks ago and

it wasn't even a blow up or a fight. I actually

thought we were getting along...she'd been sick, and

was rehabbing a broken back in a nursing home. She

knew I was coming and she knew when. I could hear her

all the way down the hall, just trashing me up one

side and down the other. I stood outside her room, I

guess to be nosey and also to figure out if she was on

the phone or talking to someone in person. (She was

on the phone.) And you know, it wasn't even just that

she was telling half truths and mistruths and saying

mean things...it was the vicious tone of voice, the

pure hatred in it.

I just walked in, waved at her, and said " Have a nice

day, I can't stay " and left.

No fight, but I knew as I walked out of there that it

was over.

--- drlingirl wrote:

> You said...

>

>

> <<<Also - even though I had a blow up with her, I

> wasn't actually

> planning to go NC. I did it after the shock of

> reading the

> Eggshells book and the stories on this board. I'm

> surprised that

> what seems to be the end of my relationship with her

> came quietly.

> Other than telling my husband that I had decided to

> cut it off, it

> seems strange that something so momentous would just

> " happen. " Does

> that make sense?>>>

>

>

> My last straw wasn't our worst arguement.......I

> just snapped, had

> enough, was full of her sh*t. I found out about BPD

> 6 weeks into NC

> and have been seeing my life with new eyes.

>

> The thought of going back even LC is disturbing to

> me......I don't

> think I could even fake it with her anymore. I'm

> just done....its

> scary but true.

>

> drlingirl

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[Guest guest]

Tag and Ninera, I feel you on the " it just kind of happened " thing.

I've been NC with my mom for over a year now, and while it did start

with a blow-up fight, we were in e-mail contact for months after that,

until it kind of petered out ... and it's weird, because once you know

about BPD and you can see through the emotional blackmail, etc., it's

impossible to go back. You are literally a different person.

My question for the group is, what do you do about the guilt? My nada

was high-functioning. She never hit me. She was always supportive of

my endeavors. She was very supportive of my educational pursuits

including going to college. She was very supportive of my body image.

She approved of my last boyfriend and we all had a great time together

(most of the time). In many ways, she was a great Mom. BUT she had

these rages ... she would yell and slam doors and make me apologize or

else, a pattern than happened over and over and over. She made my

freshman yr in college much more difficult than it needed to be,

including giving me the silent treatment for 3 weeks because I wanted

to go backpacking with my friends over the summer (imagine that kind

of aberrant behavior in a 19-year-old). When she rages, she is

spiteful and mean and verbally abusive. She is hypersensitive,

emotionally manipulative, cries, and expects me to manage her. But I'm

done managing her.

However, like many on the board have mentioned, when she's being good,

she's great - funny, clever, interesting, engaging. I miss our high

functioning times. At the same time, I don't want to invite back into

my life more hateful, blaming language. I don't want to be blamed for

her emotional state anymore. I don't want to listen to her go on about

how I'm such a neglectful, cruel daughter. I don't really want to be

totally NC, I'd like to be LC, but I have no idea how to successfully

navigate going from one to the other. Also, like I said, I feel

guilty. I know she's hurting and very very lonely (has isolated

herself from pretty much everyone except her mom - who agrees with her

that i'm being a selfish and petulant daughter) - and it seems a

little sad to abandon her .... but I don't know. I feel conflicted

about it because on the other hand I don't actually feel THAT bad not

having a mom. I know I could go my whole life like this. I have filled

my life with wonderful, loving friends, and am getting the hang of

discerning between boyfriends who are good for me and those who

aren't, so I'm creating a destiny for myself where I am connected to

those around me and accepting of myself. In other words, I feel a

little guilty that I don't feel WORSE about the NC thing. I'm not that

sad. She is hurting much more than I am, and (as she is quick to point

out) she invested a lot in me, did a good job raising me in many ways.

So I don't know ... I esp don't know what to do about the guilt.

[Guest guest]

Hey,

I love what you said about us being different because of knowing

about BP. It is so true!!! I know I will never be the

same......which scares me when thinking of going back to LC.

If you truly want to go LC and you are stong person, then I think

that is totally do-able. You said when she is good she is good.

Sound like you like being with her, and she is fun to be around and

supportive. I personally don't think I could do it. I envy those

who can stand up to their moms when they cross the line or piss them

off. It isn't who I am, I don't go around correcting people in my

everyday life. It would be exhausting to have to treat her like a

child, and if she ever caught on to me.....I'd be dead!!!

From what I have read and heard, dealing with BP's is like training

a dog. Constantly setting boundries, telling them no, and rolling

up the newspaper incase they act up :0)

The guilt thing I haven't figured out yet. I think it is a healthy

sign and means that we dodge the BP bullet. Because we KO's know

that our BP loved ones don't waste their time on guilt.....it would

only interfer with their drinking, smoking, TV programs, shopping,

and their sleep........and they wouldn't have any of that!!!

Good luck.....drlingirl

>

> Tag and Ninera, I feel you on the " it just kind of happened " thing.

> I've been NC with my mom for over a year now, and while it did

start

> with a blow-up fight, we were in e-mail contact for months after

that,

> until it kind of petered out ... and it's weird, because once you

know

> about BPD and you can see through the emotional blackmail, etc.,

it's

> impossible to go back. You are literally a different person.

>

> My question for the group is, what do you do about the guilt? My

nada

> was high-functioning. She never hit me. She was always supportive

of

> my endeavors. She was very supportive of my educational pursuits

> including going to college. She was very supportive of my body

image.

> She approved of my last boyfriend and we all had a great time

together

> (most of the time). In many ways, she was a great Mom. BUT she had

> these rages ... she would yell and slam doors and make me

apologize or

> else, a pattern than happened over and over and over. She made my

> freshman yr in college much more difficult than it needed to be,

> including giving me the silent treatment for 3 weeks because I

wanted

> to go backpacking with my friends over the summer (imagine that

kind

> of aberrant behavior in a 19-year-old). When she rages, she is

> spiteful and mean and verbally abusive. She is hypersensitive,

> emotionally manipulative, cries, and expects me to manage her. But

I'm

> done managing her.

>

> However, like many on the board have mentioned, when she's being

good,

> she's great - funny, clever, interesting, engaging. I miss our high

> functioning times. At the same time, I don't want to invite back

into

> my life more hateful, blaming language. I don't want to be blamed

for

> her emotional state anymore. I don't want to listen to her go on

about

> how I'm such a neglectful, cruel daughter. I don't really want to

be

> totally NC, I'd like to be LC, but I have no idea how to

successfully

> navigate going from one to the other. Also, like I said, I feel

> guilty. I know she's hurting and very very lonely (has isolated

> herself from pretty much everyone except her mom - who agrees with

her

> that i'm being a selfish and petulant daughter) - and it seems a

> little sad to abandon her .... but I don't know. I feel conflicted

> about it because on the other hand I don't actually feel THAT bad

not

> having a mom. I know I could go my whole life like this. I have

filled

> my life with wonderful, loving friends, and am getting the hang of

> discerning between boyfriends who are good for me and those who

> aren't, so I'm creating a destiny for myself where I am connected

to

> those around me and accepting of myself. In other words, I feel a

> little guilty that I don't feel WORSE about the NC thing. I'm not

that

> sad. She is hurting much more than I am, and (as she is quick to

point

> out) she invested a lot in me, did a good job raising me in many

ways.

> So I don't know ... I esp don't know what to do about the guilt.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey, !

I could have written your post word for word -- so glad you posted

that! I've had the same path toward NC with my nada, too. I've

been through the guilt -- it still twinges from time to time, until

I remind myself that SHE has made NO effort toward me, in addition

to doing all the other things you've listed.

I'm so glad you asked the question " What do you do about the

guilt? " , as I have contemplated that quite a bit over time, and have

had a lightbulb moment about it. In summary: our guilt is

misplaced. It does not rest with us.

Here's why I think that:

Rages destroy intimacy. You can't have intimacy between two people

when one of the people selfishly indulges themselves at the expense

of the other. Rages are self-indulgent behavior that throw all

you've built up together out the window. It the same principle as a

wife beater: they're ALWAYS sorry after a rage -- but the damage

has been done! It snuffs out the intimacy. I like the analogy of

putting up a fence and you keep putting nails in the wrong place.

Sure, you can yank out the nail and correct it, but it still leaves

a hole.

An alcoholic, raging mother can have her tender moments, too -- or

she could have enjoyed a long streak of being a great mother

(holding it together) until the alcoholism took over and she

indulged her compusion to drink and rage. She had a track record of

being a good mom, right? But relationships need tending -- and can

be damaged. Her relationship with her kids still pays the price.

You can't water a plant for a few days, then decide that's enough

and the plant should remember that you watered it weeks ago. It's

still going to wither and die.

When people rage at people they're close to, they're being self

indulgent at the expense of the other person. YOU have no guilt in

that situation: she does.

We have been programmed to think we're responsible for other

peoples' feelings and miseries -- hence, we lapse into guilt very

easily. But, you should feel no guilt at wanting to pull away from

someone who would rage at you. I don't care how many good times you

had leading up to it -- they blew it.

I often feel guilty that my parents sit at home alone all the time --

boo hooing that they don't see me enough. They have this attitude

even though I've invited them countless times to join us, they

usually find some excuse to turn me down. They'd rather dictate

that our relationship will consist of ME always going over there.

So, I've learned (with the help of a great therapist) that they sit

at home alone because they've engineered that situation themselves.

I have nothing to do with it. I'm not their cruise director -- they

are responsible for planning their time. I can let that go.

I used to have a roommate in college who was sweet and wonderful

until she got some alcohol in her -- then she RAGED. Even though

she always sincerely apologized, I finally had enough after she

ordered me out of her car one night (other friends were in the back

seat). That was the turning point for me. No matter how much she

apologized, I decided I didn't like being yelled at. Wondering when

she'd go off next. I was done. I was still polite to her, but no

way was I going for evenings out with her again. She was remorseful

and regretful for how it killed our friendship, but it was too late -

- the damage had been done.

Same with you -- you are justified in drawing the line at

mistreatment. Yes, even if it's your mother. Yes, even if you've

had some good times. You have the basic right to respect. If she

has sincerely reached out and demonstrated that she's changed, then

that's a different story. But if she's still in denial about her

behavior, then you have every right -- indeed the duty -- to protect

yourself. As my therapist has told me: " NEVER apologize (feel

guilty) for protecting yourself. " ....Also " Never apologize for

speaking up. "

Our NC is really a way of speaking up AND protecting ourselves.

-Kyla

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

It sounds to me like you might be close to try an LC

relationship. As you mentioned in your post, you know

differently now than you did then. If she rages (or

starts), you can walk away. If she yells on the

phone, you can hang up. And if she is responsive, she

may actually learn from this that such behavior is

unacceptable (we can dream!).

Either way, it sounds like you were a much stronger

person now than you were then. For instance, you

recognize that her behavior when you want to go

backpacking was unacceptable. So if she tried such a

stunt again, you would not (hopefully) take the bait.

Also, you could try going LC and see how that goes.

If not, there is always the choice to go back to NC.

None of these states is ever permanent.

is

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[Guest guest]

,

Welcome. We have been reading posts from your fiancee, and are glad

you decided to post, too. Personally, I laughed my butt off at the

seagull story. Quite hilarious when it's not my own mother ;-)

Your experience sounds awfully familiar, and I think most--well, ALL--

of us here can relate. I'll skip to the end of your post where you

asked some questions:

> We don't want my mom to come to our engagement party. My family is

> not on board. Despite making their lives miserable, they still say

> she is your mom. To me that is an excuse for not a taking a stand. I

> am scared. She has done violent things in the past when she is upset.

> One time I didn't answer the door and she ripped open a bag of

> garbage and spilled the contents all over the hallway of my building.

> Has anyone ever been afraid like I am now? Any advice?

>

IMHO, your engagement party is YOUR engagement party, just like your

wedding is YOUR wedding. You will be the king and queen of your own

household. (In my church, the bride and groom are actually crowned

during the wedding ceremony to symbolize this...well, and also that we

are supposed to sacrifice ourselves for the sake of the other, but

that's not the point I am trying to make. I digress...).

Anyway, no matter what the topic is, there will always be someone

somewhere who disagrees with your viewpoint on it. When the topic is

standing up for yourself in a family where someone has BPD, there are

bound to be LOTS of people who disagree with you. It seems to me that

people who do not want to hear you or understand you, who just want you

to " make nice " because somebody gave you DNA, do not really have your

interests at heart.

They may seem sad and disappointed, but in my humble and completely not-

professional opinion, it is not because you have done something wrong,

but because they are trying to preserve their own self-interest. Here

are some examples (others can add on to the list). Either:

1)They do not want to have to deal with the BPD behavior on their own.

Making you do it therefore makes things easier for THEM.

2)They secretly (usually subconciously) wish they could do what you're

doing. They don't want to feel guilt themselves, so giving you a guilt

trip helps distract them from their own problems.

3)They are simply completely ignorant about the reality of the

situation and literally cannot fathom a mother who is " that bad " or who

deserves to be " estranged " from her children. (This is more prevalent

in general society than in families with BPD). These people may really

think they are helping you by telling you " she is still your mother. "

I still think this attitude is self-serving, because it usually comes

with a judgemental attitude; they get an emotional high from being able

to feel superior about somehting.

I was really only going to write a few lines, and I guess got carried

away. My point is that only YOU know what YOUR needs are. If you don't

want your mom there, you don't have to invite her. It sounds like you

are feeling hurt by the reaction from your other family members.

Sometimes--especially when first trying to figure this stuff out--you

may have to limit interactions with people who will not offer you

support. I really liked the recent thread about responses to the

line " But she's your MOTHER! "

If your mother literally throws garbage when she doesn't get her way,

you don't have to ignore it or put up with it. Call the police. She'd

do the same for you.

[Guest guest]

Wow, Kyla. As always you are both insightful and eloquent. I found

this a particularly powerful metaphor:

> You can't water a plant for a few days, then decide that's enough

> and the plant should remember that you watered it weeks ago. It's

> still going to wither and die.

Six months before I went NC with my mother the following incident

occurred: I was on a scholarship to study in Argentina for a year, and

my nada was visiting. We were in a cafe and had been arguing about

something. I felt trampled on and was sitting there, seething. I could

barely think I was so angry. Then my mother, shaking her head and in

this really disappointed/condescending/spiteful tone goes, " Jesus,

Mel, you really are a piece of work. You know I don't speak Spanish,

you know I can't read this menu, yet you make absolutely no effort to

help. You really can be remarkably selfish. "

The rage and hate that I felt for my nada in that moment was so strong

and so intense that I felt it would overpower me. I hated her and felt

a burning, passionate fury that I could barely deal with. I could have

knifed her (not really, but I was full of righteous anger!) I could

have screamed in her face for five minutes straight - I mean, I was

livid. Then, just at that precise moment, my boyfriend at the time

walked in to the cafe (they were both visiting at the same time) and I

dropped it.

The point is this: for a long time I held up that moment as my litmus

test. It was such a powerful moment for me, I felt angry at my nada in

such a visceral way, that I knew when I could look back on it and not

feel burning passionate rage, I would be ready. Ready for what, you

ask? Ready to move on, perhaps -- I'm not sure, I just knew I would be

..... ready. So here's the thing: I'm ready. I look back on that moment

and I don't feel burning rage. I feel minor annoyance, but nothing

further. I think to myself, " You know, if I had that to do over again,

here's what I would say: 'Mom, it is not ok for you to speak to me

that way. Here is an appropriate way for you to say that: 'Mel, would

you help me with the menu? I don't know what to order.' or 'Mel, what

do you think I should get?' If you can't treat me with respect, I'm

leaving. " And then, if (oh let's be honest, when) she gave me any shit

about that, " Mom, it seems that you're getting upset and not ready to

treat me with the respect that I deserve. I'm leaving now. I will call

you later and see if you are feeling better. " And then, call later and

see how it was going, and if it was going the same way, continue to

not put up with crap. (In this example I say " I will call you " because

we were in a foreign country and she was somewhat legitimately

dependent on me).

That's the thing about boundaries - once you know where your

boundaries are, it's not as upsetting and crazy-making or

rage-producing when someone crosses them - because you KNOW WHERE THEY

ARE so you can call them on it and simply move on. For such a long

time I didn't even know WHAT boundaries were, let alone how to assert

them - but now I do. I think that's why I feel mildly pissed off when

I hear that story instead of blood-curdlingly, sword-wieldingly,

unfathomably angry.

drlingirl said that dealing with a BPD is like training a dog. Well, I

know I'm strong enough to start training the dog if I choose to. I

also really appreciated is's comment that going LC doesn't mean it

has to stay that way - if it doesn't work or it's too much work or

it's too draining or complicated or if I'm not getting ANY of my needs

met, then I can always go back to NC. So ... how do I start doing

that? DO I start doing that? I guess I'm still not sure ... ? I just

know somehow, deep in my bones, that if I did, I'd be ok. I'd know

where my boundaries were and even if I slipped sometimes, I'd find my

way back.

Kyla - I liked what you said about never apologizing for speaking up

or for protecting ourselves. Yes. Someone else on here posted that

their mother was also a psychotherapist and that their mother also

taught them not to take crap from anyone (except them). Therein lies

the irony in my case: my mother DID teach me how to stand up for

myself - just not to her. I've figured it out, though. I see through

her now, all the way down to her bottomless pit of shame and despair

and victim status. SWOE and Where To Draw The Line have taught me how

to create boundaries, and now, if I choose, I can assert them. So I

guess the big question is, what do I want? What do I want my

relationship with my mom to look like? I used to say, " I want a

normal, healthy, adult relationship with my mom. I want us to be two

adults who relate to each other. " But now I wonder if she's capable of

that. How do I figure out if she is capable of that?

>

> Hey, !

>

> I could have written your post word for word -- so glad you posted

> that! I've had the same path toward NC with my nada, too. I've

> been through the guilt -- it still twinges from time to time, until

> I remind myself that SHE has made NO effort toward me, in addition

> to doing all the other things you've listed.

>

> I'm so glad you asked the question " What do you do about the

> guilt? " , as I have contemplated that quite a bit over time, and have

> had a lightbulb moment about it. In summary: our guilt is

> misplaced. It does not rest with us.

>

> Here's why I think that:

>

> Rages destroy intimacy. You can't have intimacy between two people

> when one of the people selfishly indulges themselves at the expense

> of the other. Rages are self-indulgent behavior that throw all

> you've built up together out the window. It the same principle as a

> wife beater: they're ALWAYS sorry after a rage -- but the damage

> has been done! It snuffs out the intimacy. I like the analogy of

> putting up a fence and you keep putting nails in the wrong place.

> Sure, you can yank out the nail and correct it, but it still leaves

> a hole.

>

> An alcoholic, raging mother can have her tender moments, too -- or

> she could have enjoyed a long streak of being a great mother

> (holding it together) until the alcoholism took over and she

> indulged her compusion to drink and rage. She had a track record of

> being a good mom, right? But relationships need tending -- and can

> be damaged. Her relationship with her kids still pays the price.

> You can't water a plant for a few days, then decide that's enough

> and the plant should remember that you watered it weeks ago. It's

> still going to wither and die.

>

> When people rage at people they're close to, they're being self

> indulgent at the expense of the other person. YOU have no guilt in

> that situation: she does.

>

> We have been programmed to think we're responsible for other

> peoples' feelings and miseries -- hence, we lapse into guilt very

> easily. But, you should feel no guilt at wanting to pull away from

> someone who would rage at you. I don't care how many good times you

> had leading up to it -- they blew it.

>

> I often feel guilty that my parents sit at home alone all the time --

> boo hooing that they don't see me enough. They have this attitude

> even though I've invited them countless times to join us, they

> usually find some excuse to turn me down. They'd rather dictate

> that our relationship will consist of ME always going over there.

> So, I've learned (with the help of a great therapist) that they sit

> at home alone because they've engineered that situation themselves.

> I have nothing to do with it. I'm not their cruise director -- they

> are responsible for planning their time. I can let that go.

>

> I used to have a roommate in college who was sweet and wonderful

> until she got some alcohol in her -- then she RAGED. Even though

> she always sincerely apologized, I finally had enough after she

> ordered me out of her car one night (other friends were in the back

> seat). That was the turning point for me. No matter how much she

> apologized, I decided I didn't like being yelled at. Wondering when

> she'd go off next. I was done. I was still polite to her, but no

> way was I going for evenings out with her again. She was remorseful

> and regretful for how it killed our friendship, but it was too late -

> - the damage had been done.

>

> Same with you -- you are justified in drawing the line at

> mistreatment. Yes, even if it's your mother. Yes, even if you've

> had some good times. You have the basic right to respect. If she

> has sincerely reached out and demonstrated that she's changed, then

> that's a different story. But if she's still in denial about her

> behavior, then you have every right -- indeed the duty -- to protect

> yourself. As my therapist has told me: " NEVER apologize (feel

> guilty) for protecting yourself. " ....Also " Never apologize for

> speaking up. "

>

> Our NC is really a way of speaking up AND protecting ourselves.

>

> -Kyla

>

[Guest guest]

> So I guess the big question is, what do I want? What do I want my

> relationship with my mom to look like? I used to say, " I want a

> normal, healthy, adult relationship with my mom. I want us to be two

> adults who relate to each other. " But now I wonder if she's capable of

> that. How do I figure out if she is capable of that?

>

>

I think you'll know that she's capable of that if she admits her

responsibility in the situation and seeks help. And not just " go

through the motions help " , but participation in her own recovery. If

she does that, you'll observe changes in her demeanor and behavior.

I was relieved when my mother-in-law was placed in an OP Therapy

program. (not for BPD, but for major depression), but a friend of mine

said it is great that she's trying, but if she's just sitting in her

sessions, thinking about her laundry or her grocery list, she won't get

anything out of it, and you'll be able to tell. You'll know. I know I

can tell she hasn't changed, so I'm sticking with my boundaries.

Good luck!

[Guest guest]

Great post, ! Full of excellent insights! Sounds like

you're getting it!

You wrote: <<So I guess the big question is, what do I want? What

do I want my relationship with my mom to look like? I used to

say, " I want a normal, healthy, adult relationship with my mom. I

want us to be two adults who relate to each other. " But now I wonder

if she's capable of that. How do I figure out if she is capable of

that?>>

By continuing to set out your boundaries with people, including

her. HER part in the relationship is to want the relationship

enough to respect those boundaries. You have no role in her side of

the equation. You can only do your side.

How do you figure out if she's capable of that? Her behavior isn't

yours to " figure " , I'm afraid.

Just keep striving to be the best self YOU can be -- and judging

from your post, you're figuring out how to handle your mom's sudden

attacks. GOOD. I liked your alternate scenario at the cafe. If

you stay on that track in handling your life (with your mom or

anybody else!), then your mom will learn she'd better shape up and

respect you, or risk getting left behind.

By the way -- I respect and admire that you were able to study in

Argentina. That's wonderful.

-Kyla

[Guest guest]

,

Don't beat yourself up for not speaking up for yourself at the cafe.

I have a hard time with this as well and find writing is how I can

really express myself clearly. I also cry when I am angry and this

makes me feel weak infront of others. I'm sure this stems from my

childhood and not being validated or being told that I " was too

sensitive " 24/7. Even my BP sister picked on me for that, even though

I was her " big " sister. I think they find our weakness and POUNCE.

Sounds like you are on the right track here. I wish there was a test

of sorts that we could give our BP's so that we could be sure that

they were a lost cause before giving up on them. I personally am

exhausted with mine.......and I am no dog beater.....sometimes it is

just best to let them go to owners who know how to handle them ;0)

Your doing great and I love to read your posts......drlingirl

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

After reading all these posts it sounds like you are getting a lot of

support from everyone. I am just going to restate that it is

absolutely okay to not involve her in your wedding plans. Its a hard

decision to make but if she can't be what you both need her to be

then its taking away from this exciting time. I completely

understand.... My fiance proposed the same day as my college

graduation so later that evening we had a graduation party/engagement

party. Everyone of our friends were so excited...we were dancing and

my " mom " was very sullen and mopy. She was happy for us but missed my

dad and was sad he couldnt be there. So she just sits there and

doesnt particiapte and it feels awkward. She doesnt ever think about

what others are going through... I was somehwat of a daddy's girl and

my dad only met my fiance once before he passed away so of course its

hard not to share moments like that with him.

So now my wedding is about 3 months away and I have made the decision

to not involve her anything. People(family and family friends) have

been very supportive and have said they are excited and will be there

regardless of whether my mom is in attendence.

I hope this is helping you.

>

> Hello. My name is . Until last week I was just unlucky to have

> such a difficult mother. Sure I thought she was crazy but no label

> seemed to fit her personality. I thought I was alone in this (along

> with my family of course). Then my fiancee found this site and we

> realized this is the problem my mom has had as long as I've known

her.

> I have been trying to deal with this my whole life. When I was

very

> young I used to always side with my mom when my parents fought. I

> thought my dad was no good when got mom so " upset " . As I became a

> teenager I started to realize that something was wrong with the way

> they related to each other. It wasn't just my dad's fault.

> Eventually I became annoyed with both my parents and just wanted to

> fix things. I spent years trying to make things right only to end

up

> frustrated. When I finished college and began my career I sought

out

> counseling. Over the last few years i have been embracing the idea

> that I can't fix the situation, especially my mom's behavior. Now

> realize others have faced what I am facing. I feel like now is the

> time to really take back control of the quality of my life. Before I

> get into the situation at hand i would like to give a little

> background information.

>

> I moved out when I was twenty but maintained regular contact with my

> family. I was still in college at the time. When I got my first

job

> I mustered up the courage to see a therapist. I first tried to take

a

> break from my mom at the suggestion of my first therapist. It

lasted

> five to six weeks. I made the mistake of telling my mom that i was

> seeing a therapist and that she had suggested limiting contact with

> her. My mom used this information to berate my therapist for saying

> such a thing. I eventually started seeing a different therapist and

> have not said anything to my mom out of fear of being attacked and

> having what i say be manipulated. This despite the fact my mom says

> that " I am a sick boy and need a therapist " . Over the last four

years

> i have had alternating periods of time where I've had no contact

with

> my mom. The longest period was for eleven months starting last

> January. My mom had had me arrested for " assaulting " her. In

reality

> she assaulted me. She thinks that it is okay to hit me because she

is

> my " mother " . She is very manipulative and law enforcement and

courts

> tend to side with convincing BPD's. Fortunately the case was

dropped

> and I did not get convicted of of any crime. However I ended

spending

> a lot on a lawyer. I was so angry and wanted nothing to do with

her.

> I told myself that this was it for good. No contact was relieving,

> yet i ended up wishing I could have a normal relationship with my

> family. I had a great time with my fiancee's family but at timea I

> felt sad and wished I was with my own. I now realize this can't

be.

> Much to my detriment, I re-established contact with my mom after

> Thanksgiving. I had talked about things with my therapist

> extensively. I was careful to draw boundaries but it didn't work.

She

> kept pushing. It didn't help that I proposed to my girlfriend over

> Christmas break. My mom felt entitled to help plan a wedding and

> engagement party. Needless to say , it's been pretty miserable. My

> fiancee didn't really understand the fact that my mom isn't normal.

> She thought if I just acted better and avoided " hot " topics,things

> would be fine. Well, they didn't end up fine. My mom caused a scene

> with my fiancee recently because my fiancee didn't stop the car so

> that she could help an injured seagull. My mom called her evil and

> got out of the car. She said she couldn't be around her. Since

> reading info from BPD central my fiancee now undersatnds.

>

> We don't want my mom to come to our engagement party. My family is

> not on board. Despite making their lives miserable, they still say

> she is your mom. To me that is an excuse for not a taking a

stand. I

> am scared. She has done violent things in the past when she is

upset.

> One time I didn't answer the door and she ripped open a bag of

> garbage and spilled the contents all over the hallway of my

building.

> Has anyone ever been afraid like I am now? Any advice?

>

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> So now my wedding is about 3 months away and I have made the decision

> to not involve her anything. People(family and family friends) have

> been very supportive and have said they are excited and will be there

> regardless of whether my mom is in attendence.

>

> I hope this is helping you.

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to let you know that has been really busy with work

this week but we've been trying to keep up with at least reading all

of your responses, though not replying. He will write again as soon as

he can. Earlier this week we returned all of the things that my

future-MIL bought. She cursed at me, called me names and screamed. I

didn't even look her in the eye. I just calmly handed her the bags and

walked away while she screamed after me. She blames me that is

" cold " and " distant " because he's trying to stand up for himself. We

originally agreed not to invite her but is afraid of not

inviting her because of her history of violence and destruction of

property. It doesn't seem like anyone else has mentioned this

behavior. Has anyone experienced it?

Mandy, you're very lucky that your family is supporting you! I'm glad

for you. We don't feel supported. It seems like Pete's family is ruled

by fear of her vengeful behaviors. Last night Pete's dad said if we

don't invite her this weekend then he can't come either because of

what she'll do. He thinks it's okay to stay away for most things like

we did last year but that for big things like the engagement party and

wedding we have to invite her because she has no fear and no shame and

will find out where we are and ruin it if we don't invite her. I still

don't want to invite her because it seems like we would be saying

(once again) go ahead and say all those nasty things to me and then in

a couple days we can pretend it never happened and you can come to our

party. I don't want to send that message. I wish we could find a way

to make her leave us alone like last year, but I'm thinking it's not

going to happen now that she knows we're getting married.

[Guest guest]

Kyla,

Thanks for posting about guilt, about rage destroying intimacy. It explained

why I don't have much of a relationship with my father, the nonBP. I'm feeling

like I need to visit him, now that he's dying, but I don't really want to,

because, of course, I don't want to see my mother. And besides that, his own

furies drove us apart emotionally years before my mother's BP drove her and me

apart.

Anyway, I wanted you to know that I printed out that whole letter of yours,

and the one about responding to BP lies. I'm keeping them for reference and

reinforcement!

Honoria

" kylaboo728 " kylaboo728@... kylaboo728 wrote:

>>Rages destroy intimacy. You can't have intimacy between two people

when one of the people selfishly indulges themselves at the expense

of the other. Rages are self-indulgent behavior that throw all

you've built up together out the window. It the same principle as a

wife beater: they're ALWAYS sorry after a rage -- but the damage

has been done! It snuffs out the intimacy. <<

---------------------------------

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Guest guest]

So glad to be of help, Honoria! I really get a lot out of sharing

with this group -- glad to know it's working both ways!

Take care,

Kyla

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for filling us in.

You guys are really doing a lot of work on these issues--I for one am

really proud of you! Great job not giving in to her rage. Calmly

walking away is such a mature thing to do =)

Here's an acronym we use a lot: FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt). These

are the primary tactics of emotional blackmailers. It sounds like

you guys are pretty much past the Obligation and maybe even some of

the Guilt but are still being pulled in by Fear, e.g., " What if she

throws a huge violent destructive tantrum? Don't I have to invite

her so she won't do this? "

My advice is to honor your feelings and your marriage. Be who you

want to be, and make your wedding and marriage what you want them to

be. Enjoy your life and the time leading up to your union as much as

possible. Be firm with your boundaries, and send the message that

you are adults who will not be manipulated.

If 's mother becomes violent or destructive, tell her that

behavior is unacceptable and call the police. (Some people have even

taken out restraining orders against their BPD parent.) If she calls

you names or yells at you, tell her you are not for talking to that

way and that you will continue the conversation when she has calmed

down. Hang up the phone, close the door on her, walk away, or

whatever you need to do.

If you think there is a serious risk that she will crash the wedding

(or engagement party), consider hiring some security or at the very

least assigning someone " bouncer " duty. Worrying about all the

things she could possibly do to sabotage your day is not something

that I want you to be doing during your wedding--I want you to be

focused on the joy of a new beginning. I definitely recommend

assigning someone else the job of defending against 's mother on

that day, so that you can feel free to truly enjoy it.

My thoughts and prayers are with you both. You are really doing a

great job.

> > So now my wedding is about 3 months away and I have made the

decision

> > to not involve her anything. People(family and family friends)

have

> > been very supportive and have said they are excited and will be

there

> > regardless of whether my mom is in attendence.

> >

> > I hope this is helping you.

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> Just wanted to let you know that has been really busy with

work

> this week but we've been trying to keep up with at least reading all

> of your responses, though not replying. He will write again as soon

as

> he can. Earlier this week we returned all of the things that my

> future-MIL bought. She cursed at me, called me names and screamed. I

> didn't even look her in the eye. I just calmly handed her the bags

and

> walked away while she screamed after me. She blames me that is

> " cold " and " distant " because he's trying to stand up for himself. We

> originally agreed not to invite her but is afraid of not

> inviting her because of her history of violence and destruction of

> property. It doesn't seem like anyone else has mentioned this

> behavior. Has anyone experienced it?

>

> Mandy, you're very lucky that your family is supporting you! I'm

glad

> for you. We don't feel supported. It seems like Pete's family is

ruled

> by fear of her vengeful behaviors. Last night Pete's dad said if we

> don't invite her this weekend then he can't come either because of

> what she'll do. He thinks it's okay to stay away for most things

like

> we did last year but that for big things like the engagement party

and

> wedding we have to invite her because she has no fear and no shame

and

> will find out where we are and ruin it if we don't invite her. I

still

> don't want to invite her because it seems like we would be saying

> (once again) go ahead and say all those nasty things to me and then

in

> a couple days we can pretend it never happened and you can come to

our

> party. I don't want to send that message. I wish we could find a way

> to make her leave us alone like last year, but I'm thinking it's not

> going to happen now that she knows we're getting married.

>

>

>