Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 In a message dated 3/7/02 4:20:34 PM Central Standard Time, jeggeman@... writes: << <> That is all you pay ? We pah $31.00 or so. >> We pay a percentage of our salary and I gladly pay almost $48.00 a month. I was here before the union came in and it is a MILLION times better now. Chicago (Illinois) 9-1-1 Witchy666@... my opinions.. ..never theirs.. ..and never to be used without prior written consent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 --- wrote: > > For instance, even our " weak " agreement got it > changed where > we now have the choice of receiving pay for our > holidays or > taking comp time... I think that's great that you got that, but that was not the purpose of labor unions. Labor unions were created to keep workers from being abused (working 18 hour days, working in unsafe conditions, making a pittance that they couldn't live on, etc.) We now have laws to prevent these things from happening and to prosecute the people that still do it. I'm not saying that unions don't ever make the work environment better, but when pilots go on strike to get more money and they make 3 times as much as I do, that ticks me off. It is very rare, at least the way I see it, that unions are actually stepping in to keep workers from being abused anymore. They want ridiculous things, like the no cleaning example that I responded to. Of course, people's ideas of what is abuse have changed, and there will be a lot of people who think that having to clean up after themselves is abuse. I see this all the time in the military. People want to take, take, take, but never give in return. Hard work is not in their vocabulary. I am not saying this is you, --I know better from reading your posts. I also know we will probably not ever agree on this issue. I really wouldn't mind unions if all they did was things like getting dispatchers the option to choose money or comp time. But I think the unions are being abused in a lot of industries. I don't see it as much in law enforcement as I do in others. Of course, most of those in law enforcement who are unionized are not allowed to strike, so that helps. Sorry this was so long. ===== Kim I make a difference Tulsa, OK __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 Major snipping of the other Kim's post: Labor unions were > created to keep workers from being abused (making a > pittance that they couldn't live on, etc.) We now > have laws to prevent these things from happening and > to prosecute the people that still do it. To which all I have to say is, ever work for minimum wage? I have. It should be illegal. After 13 years in retail, much of it as a supervisor, I was making $7/hour, for a grand total of just over $14,000/year. (Taxable income, NOT take-home!) Not enough to live on, trust me. And that job was so high stress. It may not have been life-and-death emergencies, but people act like it is, and because it's not, in a way it's more stressful than the real thing, I guess because you don't have the adrenalin rush to help you out. But there was no union and nobody to fight for us when we were forced to work insane schedules. (I have worked until 11 pm one night and had to be back at 7 am.) A dime an hour was a good raise there. Schedules could be changed at the whim of the manager. It was not unusual for me to get called at home on my offday to be asked where something was, just because it was easier to pick up the phone and call me than to look for it. Hating Christmas because I worked my @#$ off and was too tired to enjoy it. I gladly pay my 15 bucks a month and serve as an employee rep. Kim Kinsey --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.319 / Virus Database: 178 - Release Date: 1/28/02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:46 PM <<I gladly pay my 15 bucks a month and serve as an employee rep.>> That is all you pay ? We pah $31.00 or so. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 At 17:09 03/07/2002 -0500, Jim wrote, incredulously about union dues Kim K said she paid: ><<I gladly pay my 15 bucks a month and serve as an employee rep.>> > >That is all you pay ? We pah $31.00 or so. And the 700-some CHP dispatchers throughout the state pay $50 and some change, each month. <sigh> OFFICERS' union dues are less than half of that. (Of course, there are over 6,000 officers... but STILL!) Happy to be here, proud to serve. Olmstead Communications Supervisor ~on the Central California coastline~ " Not presumed to be an official statement of my employing agency. " Home E-mail: mailto:gryeyes@... http://www.gryeyes.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 >Labor unions were created to keep workers from being abused (working 18 hour days, working in unsafe conditions, making a pittance that they couldn't live on, etc.) Those are SOME of the reasons they were created. And they were great reasons. " working 18 hour days " Without the unions, if your employer said you're working 18 hours, then you worked them, or were out of a job. And it was at minimum wage, with no overtime. " making a pittance that they couldn't live on " The unions still fight to raise the minimum wage, with many business and corporations fighting them all the way. >We now have laws to prevent these things from happening and to prosecute the people that still do it. < And the reason we have those laws are the unions... You might also want to check, government agencies are sometimes exempt from many of the laws that protect private sector workers. I know ours was, and only began following some of them after union representation. >They want ridiculous things, like the no cleaning example that I responded to. < This may not be as ridiculous as you think. Think of this. Dispatchers for years have been fighting to be considered, and treated, as " Professionals " If the employer can " force " these dispatchers to mop, sweep, dust, etc... Does that employer, and other workers in the agency, really consider them " Professional Dispatchers " ? At inspections we used to " assign " dispatchers certain areas to clean. I no longer do that. I just think its wrong. I find they still do it, it's simply a matter of pride, wanting our work area to be as ready for inspection as the rest of the post. But I will not assign someone to do it. >But I think the unions are being abused in a lot of industries. On this we agree. But if I have a choice of working union or non-union, I'll take the union, even with their problems. Believe me, I've done both, including working 64 hours per week at minimum wage, with no overtime. Being forced to take " comp " time for holidays I've worked, having absolutely no say in my working conditions... I can no longer be a member of our union, but if I could, I'd pay the dues in a heartbeat. Weintraut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2002 Report Share Posted March 8, 2002 , you misunderstood me on a couple of points. Not your fault, I am tired and stressed lately, so probably didn't make myself clear. I agree with you--dispatchers should not be doing the mopping, vacumming, etc. The example I referred to stated that people would not clean up after themselves (I believe something was said about going so far as spilling something on the floor and not picking it up) and then would cite the union agreement as a reason. As far as the reason the laws are there is because of the unions--please don't misunderstand. The unions did great things back then and I am supremely thankful for that. As I stated before, I don't think all things unions do are bad. There will always be something that needs to be fixed when it comes to management vs employees. However, especially in the private sector, employers are so intimidated by the unions that they let them run roughshod and petty and ridiculous demands are met. I have seen this the most in the airline industry. Pilots go on strike for more money (seriously inconveniencing customers) when they are already paid large sums of money. And, I know for a fact that they are not overworked for this money. Yes, they have to be away from their families a lot and fly all over the place, but FAA does not allow them to fly more than so many hours in a time period and as far as being away a lot--well, they chose to be pilots. Trust me, I know all about bad working environments--I am in the military, after all. And you better believe that labor laws mean nothing to the military. When the federal government wants something done, nothing will get you out of helping get it done. So, I guess, despite my earlier remarks, count me a moderate on the union issue. Some of them do a lot of good, but there are a lot of them that have gone too far. And NOBODY in the US has it as bad as people did in the mid to late 1800's when it comes to labor. (well, nobody working legally, that is.) ===== Kim I make a difference Tulsa, OK __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2002 Report Share Posted March 8, 2002 >The example I referred to stated that people would not clean up after themselves (I believe something was said about going so far as spilling something on the floor and not picking it up) and then would cite the union agreement as a reason I agree that people should clean up after themselves. No union agreement would say different, nor would any union rep that I've ever known, argue the point. If the above is happening in a dispatch center, it's a supervisory problem, and should be dealt with. And, although I can't agree or disagree with your examples, because I don't have all the facts, I'm sure there are union excesses. Just as there are excesses and abuse by management. It's just that I've worked both ways, and for me, there is no question that workers, if they are to be treated fairly, must have representation. I think some of the reasons for the high turnover in our profession are..... Low pay Mandated excessive overtime Insufficient assigned personnel to do the work (even at full staff) No clear job descriptions, therefore much non-dispatch work is given to dispatch, causing more stress, frustration and overwork. There are many more... but ALL of them are union issues.. Weintraut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2002 Report Share Posted March 8, 2002 > Low pay > Mandated excessive overtime > Insufficient assigned personnel to do the work (even > at full staff) > No clear job descriptions, therefore much > non-dispatch work is given > to dispatch, causing more stress, frustration and > overwork. , I see your point. I am willing to go as far as to agree that there are places where unions are needed. I happen to be lucky enough to work in a non-union agency where we don't have these problems to any great extent. I am by no means overpaid, but not bottom of the barrell either and when the other problems crop up, our management deals with them effectively. In our agency, the biggest stressors (not related to emergencies we handle) come from the public and the officers. Some people have discussed becoming unionized at our agency, and I disagree with it, because I think that what they want the union for is mostly petty stuff (there are a lot of people that like to kick and scream if they don't get their way, no matter how unreasonable their request.) And, I admit that most problems I have seen springing up from unions come from the private sector. You have taught me a few things about this subject, and I appreciate it. ===== Kim I make a difference Tulsa, OK __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 << And the 700-some CHP dispatchers throughout the state pay $50 and some change, each month. <sigh> >> Yes for ONE union rep with her own agenda -- she's the one who got the title change but no raise until at least 2004......not quite worth $50 a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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