Re: Numbers and Testing

[Guest guest]

Hi, ...there is some research out there that says high peaks aren't good

for you so if you can avoid 'em, you should. Oranges are a pretty high-carb

fruit...it's better than orange juice but as you can see, an orange will

spike your BG. If I have orange at all I only have one segment at a time.

Better to avoid that fruit entirely. If you can afford them off season,

raspberries and strawberries are relatively lowcarb fruits, won't do too much

harm. (I know, it's hard to give up the habit of orange/orange juice to wake

up with!) Even with lower carb fruits, I keep portion to under 50 grams.

Do you weigh out your foods? Vicki

In a message dated 01-04-03 15:27:56 EDT, you write:

<<

I am not sure if I understand the goal correctly. This morning I got up and

tested first thing. Bg-144. Then I ate a navel orange and took my

Glucophage. 1/2 hour after the orange I tested and Bg was 194. Approximately

2 hours after the orange it was back down to 153.

Am I trying to avoid any rise in the Bg's or is it ok for them to go from

144 to 194 as long as they come back down in about 2 hours?

>>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/03/2001 4:15:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

whimsy2@... writes:

> . Oranges are a pretty high-carb

> fruit...it's better than orange juice but as you can see, an orange will

> spike your BG. If I have orange at all I only have one segment at a time.

> Better to avoid that fruit entirely. If you can afford them off season,

> raspberries and strawberries are relatively lowcarb fruits, won't do too

> much

> harm. (I know, it's hard to give up the habit of orange/orange juice to

> wake

> up with!) Even with lower carb fruits, I keep portion to under 50 grams.

>

I finally found a way around this, not oranges but orange juice. I use tang

orange drink, it does taste like orange juice if not watered down too much,

its diet, sweenened with nutrsweet, and each tub of tang powder is about 7

carbs.

carol

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/3/01 3:28:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

woodduckflds@... writes:

<< Am I trying to avoid any rise in the Bg's or is it ok for them to go from

144 to 194 as long as they come back down in about 2 hours?

>>

I strive to keep my #s as close to 100 as possible as most do on this list.

Here is what i would have done.

got up, saw bg was 144, ate only protein.

monitored bg 2 hrs after finish eating.

If my bg was under 120. i'd eat some carbs.....

however for me... (and you might be different) i cannot handle eating a whole

naval orange.

I can eat a 1/4 of one, without more than a 10 point rise.

My diabetic educator says its ok for me to have a 2 hr pp that is 40 points

higher than my bg prior to eating.

I say its ok for me to go up 40 IF and only if i was under 100 to begin with.

ie if i'm at 96 then i eat, and go to 136.... fine... I start to get worried

if i go up to 140 or higher and i certainly would get REAL worried if i

stayed well over 120 for a long period of time.

I dont worry bout peaks that occur between when i ate the food and the 2 hr

pp time.

If you have digestive problems... then i'd maybe carry out the 2 hr pp to 3

hrs or 4hrs if you are up higher that long.

Hope this helps some.

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>

> I am not sure if I understand the goal correctly. This morning I got up and

> tested first thing. Bg-144. Then I ate a navel orange and took my

> Glucophage. 1/2 hour after the orange I tested and Bg was 194. Approximately

> 2 hours after the orange it was back down to 153.

>

> Am I trying to avoid any rise in the Bg's or is it ok for them to go from

> 144 to 194 as long as they come back down in about 2 hours?

,

The orange has a pretty high gi index. Taboo for many. For one thing,

144 fasting is too high, peaking as you did is not good either, but at

least you're testing and learning what foods do to you.

--

Dave - 3:40:37 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH, H

-

Davors Daily Aphorism:

Body by Nautilus; brain by Mattel

--

Visit my HomePage:

http://dorcutt.homepage.com

[Guest guest]

> I am not sure if I understand the goal correctly. This morning I got up

and

> tested first thing. Bg-144. Then I ate a navel orange and took my

> Glucophage. 1/2 hour after the orange I tested and Bg was 194.

Approximately

> 2 hours after the orange it was back down to 153.

**, your fbg (fasting blood glucose) is a little high. I would suggest

you lower your carbs at dinner, and if you have to snack before bed, make it

protein and not carbs. That will help. An orange will spike my bg's that

much - a better choice for breakfast might be eggs. It's a lot to learn, I

know, and you're doing a good job testing like you are to see which foods

will spike you and which won't. Oranges will spike many people. There is a

glycemic index at www.mendosa.com, which will show you which carbohydrates

will spike you higher and faster than others. AS you'll see, rice and

potatoes are worse than sugar, and citrus fruit is pretty high. Keep it

up - you'll learn alot and feel much better too. Remember the goal is to

keep around 100, as well as avoiding as much spike as possible.

Barb

[Guest guest]

no vickie its coffee thats hard to wake up without. ok ok just a funny there,

but now back to the topic, just about any fruit will do me in, and oranges give

me major heart burn. if you can toss the orange in exchange for peperoni slices

toped with hardboiled egg slices, or if you like cheese slice some cheese and

top with peperonie and egg or just the egg. how about that

glenna

http://www.geocities.com/barnie_64/FAMILY.html

Re: Numbers and Testing

Hi, ...there is some research out there that says high peaks aren't good

for you so if you can avoid 'em, you should. Oranges are a pretty high-carb

fruit...it's better than orange juice but as you can see, an orange will

spike your BG. If I have orange at all I only have one segment at a time.

Better to avoid that fruit entirely. If you can afford them off season,

raspberries and strawberries are relatively lowcarb fruits, won't do too much

harm. (I know, it's hard to give up the habit of orange/orange juice to wake

up with!) Even with lower carb fruits, I keep portion to under 50 grams.

Do you weigh out your foods? Vicki

In a message dated 01-04-03 15:27:56 EDT, you write:

<<

I am not sure if I understand the goal correctly. This morning I got up and

tested first thing. Bg-144. Then I ate a navel orange and took my

Glucophage. 1/2 hour after the orange I tested and Bg was 194. Approximately

2 hours after the orange it was back down to 153.

Am I trying to avoid any rise in the Bg's or is it ok for them to go from

144 to 194 as long as they come back down in about 2 hours?

>>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/4/01 7:12:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

woodduckflds@... writes:

<< So what is a ok amount

of carbs to have in a day? >>

This also varies from person to person....

I'd suggest trying about 15 grams of carb per meal for 3 meals in a day, and

a 15gram snack that would = 60 grams if you are not overwt, if you need to

loose i'd try going lower than that to about 40 grams for the whole day.

This is something that would need to be done gradually.

Also some carbs tend to spike, you more than others... for me the white carbs

do more... there's a glycemic index that you can look at to determine which

spike more than others. www.mendosa.com (i think is where that is)

So for a while i'd say Test when getting up, and then test just before each

meal, and 2 hrs after each meal. If you get a rise that is too high (for

your comfort for me this is more than 40 points or so) at the 2 hr post

eating (pp) time, then i'd look at what i ate, and not eat as much of it next

time, or perhaps not eat it again period. <G>

Hope this Helps.

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicki- no I don't weigh my food. I really feel like I hardly eat some

days. Yesterday I ate that orange-7:30am (won't do that again), then I had 1

slice toast (16g carb) 2 eggs and butter-10:30am. At 1 pm I ate 2 slices

bologna with 1 slice cheese wrapped in lettuce (3-4g carb). Dinner I ate

these " diabetic " oatmeal cookies that I now see are high in carbs-21g for a

serving of 4 cookies. They tasted so good though :-) So what is a ok amount

of carbs to have in a day?

ps I don't usually eat oranges. A well meaning friend brought me a care

package on Sunday- oranges and bran cereal were included.

Hi, ...there is some research out there that says high peaks aren't

good

for you so if you can avoid 'em, you should. Oranges are a pretty high-carb

fruit...it's better than orange juice but as you can see, an orange will

spike your BG. If I have orange at all I only have one segment at a time.

Better to avoid that fruit entirely. If you can afford them off season,

raspberries and strawberries are relatively lowcarb fruits, won't do too

much

harm. (I know, it's hard to give up the habit of orange/orange juice to wake

up with!) Even with lower carb fruits, I keep portion to under 50 grams.

Do you weigh out your foods? Vicki

[Guest guest]

I went and looked at the index. So many foods I have never heard of are the

low ones. I need to go thru my kitchen and throw out all my old food and

then go shopping so I have the " right " stuff in the house. I was happy to

see that peanuts are low GI. I have to say it's hard to know where to start.

**, your fbg (fasting blood glucose) is a little high. I would suggest

you lower your carbs at dinner, and if you have to snack before bed, make it

protein and not carbs. That will help. An orange will spike my bg's that

much - a better choice for breakfast might be eggs. It's a lot to learn, I

know, and you're doing a good job testing like you are to see which foods

will spike you and which won't. Oranges will spike many people. There is a

glycemic index at www.mendosa.com, which will show you which carbohydrates

will spike you higher and faster than others. AS you'll see, rice and

potatoes are worse than sugar, and citrus fruit is pretty high. Keep it

up - you'll learn alot and feel much better too. Remember the goal is to

keep around 100, as well as avoiding as much spike as possible.

Barb

[Guest guest]

> So what is a ok amount

> of carbs to have in a day?

***that really depends on your own body, . Did you get Dr. Bernstein's

Diabetes Solution yet? That will answer a lot of your questions. And his

website is listed on our website - url below the message.

Some of us do 100 carbs per day, some do 30, some in between, and some get

good control with the ADA exchange program. Most of us who aren't new to

this have tested, tested, tested to see which foods work best for us. I'd

suggest you keep a diary of everything and the times, and try hard to eat

protein every 2-3 hours, if you can. Too many carbs, and you spike, too

little food, and your bg's go up, because your liver releases glycogen,

because your body thinks it's starving. So, staying even (around 100) is

the goal. A food scale is a good thing too, it helps with your diary to

know how much. Eventually, you'll get used to all this and be able to

estimate a little better. For now, it's best to really keep track, because

it helps with the awareness, as well as with cravings.

You're on your way to good control, .

Barb

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/4/01 1:24:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

woodduckflds@... writes:

<< I have a cold, sneezing etc and I

was craving hot soup. I was 155 before lunch, 169 1/2 hr after, and 1 1/4

hrs after I am at 131. I know that the numbers overall are too high but it

is nice to know the soup " agreed " with me. I am wondering if I need to be on

a higher dose of Glucophage? Is there any reason why I couldn't up my own

dose to see if it helps lower my #'s ? I am on 500mg morning and night. >>

E,

When we are sick, ie cold etc, we do often have elevated bs' results.... i'd

wait till after i got over being sick, and after i got over adjusting my

carbs downwards and then i'd look at the readings.

And i'd always recommend talking to the dr first... even just a phone call to

ask can i try adjusting the dose from 2 - 3 tabs etc.

Also aren't you just back on the glucophage after being off for a while, i

noticed that after about 2 weeks of taking glucophage i got much better am

results. so i think its an accumulated amt too.

[Guest guest]

Hi, ...it sounds like you're really starving yourself. This is not a

good way to control your diabetes. If you eat the right foods you don't have

to starve yourself at all. And once you cut out the carbs, in a very short

time your carb cravings will disappear - I can guarantee it!

Taking frequent BG readings both before and after eating and first thing when

you get up in the morning, weighing out your food, writing down everything

will very shortly show you what you can eat and what raises your BGs. By now

you've probably figured out that those cookies weren't a good choice! I have

a really good electronic battery operated scale that weighs both in grams and

ounces...cost about $30. It may seem odious to weigh and measure out

everything but it's really a big help to control.

And while 16 carbs for a slice of bread might sound low, it really isn't.

I'd advise cutting out all breads, cereals, grain products along with pasta

and rice. . Have some protein with your eggs...bacon, sausage, ham, sliced

turkey, smoked or regular...all these are fine (but read labels to make sure

there's no sugar sneaked in the curing...)

Lots of people get good results with about 100 carbs a day, which is a good

starting goal to aim for. I was able to get down to about 30 a day without

too much pain after that...got really motivated. Vicki

In a message dated 01-04-04 07:12:39 EDT, you write:

<<

Hi Vicki- no I don't weigh my food. I really feel like I hardly eat some

days. Yesterday I ate that orange-7:30am (won't do that again), then I had 1

slice toast (16g carb) 2 eggs and butter-10:30am. At 1 pm I ate 2 slices

bologna with 1 slice cheese wrapped in lettuce (3-4g carb). Dinner I ate

these " diabetic " oatmeal cookies that I now see are high in carbs-21g for a

serving of 4 cookies. They tasted so good though :-) So what is a ok amount

of carbs to have in a day?

ps I don't usually eat oranges. A well meaning friend brought me a care

package on Sunday- oranges and bran cereal were included.

>>

[Guest guest]

Atta girl! Way to go! Don't be fooled by labels on " low-fat " foods -- many

of them may be low in fat but are high in carbs. There are lots of lowcarb

websites where you can buy lowcarb foods on line, which really help you to

feel Not Deprived. And be aware -- not all veggies are lowcarb either. Best

ones are cauliflower, broccoli, asparagus, spinach...stay away (or eat very

small portions) of root veggies such as carrots, beets, etc. Learn to use

the online USDA website, it's got lots of good information and is easy to

use. URL is

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/nut_search.pl

People here can offer lots of suggestios for favorite lowcarb foods. Don't

be intimidated...it's a lot to learn at the beginning but after a while it

sinks in and becomes quite natural. Take care, Vicki

In a message dated 01-04-04 07:46:27 EDT, you write:

<<

I went and looked at the index. So many foods I have never heard of are the

low ones. I need to go thru my kitchen and throw out all my old food and

then go shopping so I have the " right " stuff in the house. I was happy to

see that peanuts are low GI. I have to say it's hard to know where to start.

>>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/04/2001 7:12:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

woodduckflds@... writes:

> So what is a ok amount

> of carbs to have in a day?

>

Hi ,

Glad to see you posting!!!!

To start with, many people do well on 100 carbs a day, but you need to eat

often to keep bg level, so how bout trying 5 meals, at 20 carbs each, 3

meals, 2 snacks maybe, doesn't have to be big meals or snacks, just count

your carbs, then you can see how you handle this food by your bg, then you

can adjust up or down as you need to.

carol

[Guest guest]

Thanks to everyone for the help on this. I tried some s wild rice

and mushroom soup for lunch today. It has 16 carbs and has celery and

carrots and just a small amount of rice. I have a cold, sneezing etc and I

was craving hot soup. I was 155 before lunch, 169 1/2 hr after, and 1 1/4

hrs after I am at 131. I know that the numbers overall are too high but it

is nice to know the soup " agreed " with me. I am wondering if I need to be on

a higher dose of Glucophage? Is there any reason why I couldn't up my own

dose to see if it helps lower my #'s ? I am on 500mg morning and night.

E

<< So what is a ok amount

of carbs to have in a day? >>

This also varies from person to person....

I'd suggest trying about 15 grams of carb per meal for 3 meals in a day, and

a 15gram snack that would = 60 grams if you are not overwt, if you need to

loose i'd try going lower than that to about 40 grams for the whole day.

This is something that would need to be done gradually.

Also some carbs tend to spike, you more than others... for me the white

carbs

do more... there's a glycemic index that you can look at to determine which

spike more than others. www.mendosa.com (i think is where that is)

So for a while i'd say Test when getting up, and then test just before each

meal, and 2 hrs after each meal. If you get a rise that is too high (for

your comfort for me this is more than 40 points or so) at the 2 hr post

eating (pp) time, then i'd look at what i ate, and not eat as much of it

next

time, or perhaps not eat it again period. <G>

Hope this Helps.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave- I got out the little pamphlet my Dr tossed me (so helpful-haha) and

reread it. The way it is written " the ada standard for diabetes diagnosis is

a fasting bg of 126 mg/dL " made me think that 125 was " normal " . Therefore I

thought 144 wasn't " too bad " but I started wondering about that when I heard

people talking about levels of 100. Also, an older friend told me " just

keep it under 200 " and you'll be fine. A second pamphlet shows a picture of

a daily chart of test results. On that chart it shows: bg before

breakfast=127/after breakfast=144, then before lunch=130/ after lunch=240.

This made me think that was ok control.

What is ok and what is not is very difficult to get a handle on and these

pamphlets seem to be misleading. The lunch spike (130-240) was 110. And the

test results on that sample chart for the rest of the week flowed like

this:110,160,180,205,125,165 etc. Those numbers made me think I was doing

ok.

,

RE:

The orange has a pretty high gi index. Taboo for many. For one thing,

144 fasting is too high, peaking as you did is not good either, but at

least you're testing and learning what foods do to you.

--

Dave - 3:40:37 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH, H

[Guest guest]

Yes- I went off or was very sporadic (sp?) about it while dad was sick etc.

I am actually noticing that it is not giving me the upset stomach that it

did a few days ago. Maybe I am getting used to it.

When we are sick, ie cold etc, we do often have elevated bs' results.... i'd

wait till after i got over being sick, and after i got over adjusting my

carbs downwards and then i'd look at the readings.

And i'd always recommend talking to the dr first... even just a phone call

to

ask can i try adjusting the dose from 2 - 3 tabs etc.

Also aren't you just back on the glucophage after being off for a while, i

noticed that after about 2 weeks of taking glucophage i got much better am

results. so i think its an accumulated amt too.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01-04-04 13:24:54 EDT, you write:

<< I tried some s wild rice

and mushroom soup for lunch today. It has 16 carbs and has celery and

carrots and just a small amount of rice. I have a cold, sneezing etc and I

was craving hot soup. I was 155 before lunch, 169 1/2 hr after, and 1 1/4

hrs after I am at 131. >>

Not too bad but you might try lowfat chicken broth...no carbs at all and it

satisfies soup craving...and you know what they say about chicken broth

curing colds! <g> Vicki

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01-04-04 13:44:43 EDT, you write:

<< The way it is written " the ada standard for diabetes diagnosis is

a fasting bg of 126 mg/dL " made me think that 125 was " normal " . >>

Some people think the ADA has a vested interest in keeping diabetics sick.

Lots of their $$ come from diabetic suppliers, who of course want us to

continue buying their products. (Not saying I totally believe this but...) It

does bother me that they keep promoting the exchange system exclusively,

saying absolutely nothing about lowcarbing as a (lowcost) way to reduce BGs.

Vicki

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>

> Hi Dave- I got out the little pamphlet my Dr tossed me (so helpful-haha) and

> reread it. The way it is written " the ada standard for diabetes diagnosis is

> a fasting bg of 126 mg/dL " made me think that 125 was " normal " . Therefore I

> thought 144 wasn't " too bad " but I started wondering about that when I heard

> people talking about levels of 100. Also, an older friend told me " just

> keep it under 200 " and you'll be fine. A second pamphlet shows a picture of

> a daily chart of test results. On that chart it shows: bg before

> breakfast=127/after breakfast=144, then before lunch=130/ after lunch=240.

> This made me think that was ok control.

>

> What is ok and what is not is very difficult to get a handle on and these

> pamphlets seem to be misleading. The lunch spike (130-240) was 110. And the

> test results on that sample chart for the rest of the week flowed like

> this:110,160,180,205,125,165 etc. Those numbers made me think I was doing

> ok.

There is far too much misleading information out there. Check out the

URLs at the bottom of this message for information on diabetes, and what

you should be looking for control. Beware of " older friends telling

you " ..

>

> ,

>

> RE:

> The orange has a pretty high gi index. Taboo for many. For one thing,

> 144 fasting is too high, peaking as you did is not good either, but at

> least you're testing and learning what foods do to you.

>

> --

> Dave - 3:40:37 PM

> T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH, H

>

>

[Guest guest]

:

If I remember correctly, the standards for diagnosis of diabetes are:

A fasting BG of 126 or higher, OR

An oral glucose tolerance test (OGTT) result of 200 or more in two hours.

However, readings just under these are NOT normal.

Impaired fasting glucose is generally diagnosed at 115, and some recent

medical papers suggest that this level (for impaired fasting glucose) should

be lowered to 105 based on studies of complications and progression to

diabetes.

Impaired glucose tolerance is defined, I believe, by a two hour OGTT result

of 150 or higher.

Readings in the " impaired " ranges are higher than " normal " and are high

enough to damage our bodies and increase the risk of nasty complications.

These are sometimes called " pre-diabetic " in medical literature.

As I posted earlier, there is good reason to believe that, if people were

aggressively educated upon attaining the much lower " impaired " levels, and

started acting like diabetics then, many could be kept from ever attaining

full diabetic readings and from suffering many complications. But this is

almost never being done, and, as a result, many people suffer unnecessarily.

Enough ranting.

Tom the Actuary

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicki- you are right. One problem is I don't have much food in the house

and what I do have I can't eat. After I read your post I went and got a few

things at the country store (not much selection) to tide me over till this

cold goes away and I feel up to a big shopping trip. I hate shopping! I

bought peanut butter, ham, bologna, mixed nuts, small thing of milk, and

some canned soups that weren't too bad carb wise. I did noticed the peanut

butter has added sugar so I will test and see whether I should toss it out.

Hi, ...it sounds like you're really starving yourself. This is not a

good way to control your diabetes. If you eat the right foods you don't

have

to starve yourself at all. And once you cut out the carbs, in a very short

time your carb cravings will disappear - I can guarantee it!

Taking frequent BG readings both before and after eating and first thing

when

you get up in the morning, weighing out your food, writing down everything

will very shortly show you what you can eat and what raises your BGs. By

now

you've probably figured out that those cookies weren't a good choice! I

have

a really good electronic battery operated scale that weighs both in grams

and

ounces...cost about $30. It may seem odious to weigh and measure out

everything but it's really a big help to control.

And while 16 carbs for a slice of bread might sound low, it really isn't.

I'd advise cutting out all breads, cereals, grain products along with pasta

and rice. . Have some protein with your eggs...bacon, sausage, ham, sliced

turkey, smoked or regular...all these are fine (but read labels to make

sure

there's no sugar sneaked in the curing...)

Lots of people get good results with about 100 carbs a day, which is a good

starting goal to aim for. I was able to get down to about 30 a day without

too much pain after that...got really motivated. Vicki

In a message dated 01-04-04 07:12:39 EDT, you write:

<<

Hi Vicki- no I don't weigh my food. I really feel like I hardly eat some

days. Yesterday I ate that orange-7:30am (won't do that again), then I had 1

slice toast (16g carb) 2 eggs and butter-10:30am. At 1 pm I ate 2 slices

bologna with 1 slice cheese wrapped in lettuce (3-4g carb). Dinner I ate

these " diabetic " oatmeal cookies that I now see are high in carbs-21g for a

serving of 4 cookies. They tasted so good though :-) So what is a ok amount

of carbs to have in a day?

ps I don't usually eat oranges. A well meaning friend brought me a care

package on Sunday- oranges and bran cereal were included.

[Guest guest]

I just realized I hadn't weighed myself in a while. I have lost 5 lbs! A

pleasant surprise.

Hi, ...it sounds like you're really starving yourself. This is not a

good way to control your diabetes. If you eat the right foods you don't

have

to starve yourself at all. And once you cut out the carbs, in a very short

time your carb cravings will disappear - I can guarantee it!

[Guest guest]

Cyber chicken soup for you, :-)

Barb in CO (I hate shopping too)

--------------

> Hi Vicki- you are right. One problem is I don't have much food in the

house

> and what I do have I can't eat. After I read your post I went and got a

few

> things at the country store (not much selection) to tide me over till this

> cold goes away and I feel up to a big shopping trip.