RE: Progress !!!! or ... not?

[Guest guest]

That would be " infant baby dolls " - not baby infants.

Really.

I have no need for baby infants. Really!

Grace

Progress !!!! or ... not?

> Well, one of the things i needed to get for the home program were baby

> infants.

> I already knew my children didn't like baby dolls, but well, since it had

it

> written, I did.

>

> Go figure, both took a liking to the dolls and today - Syd was allowed to

> carry one out with her as she did an imitation of " so pretty " while

rubbing

> the baby's bald head. <She actually said, " suh bay " which is kinda

> similar.... sorta>

> Anyhow, I was so giddy watching her do this. Real pretend play! Real toy

> imitation! Real kid!

>

> Only, 2 minutes ago, I found her sitting in the living room, chewing on

the

> dolls forehead.

>

> Well now there is a loud reminder as to why I won't be having more of

these

> chillun'.

>

> Grace

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ah, Grace...3 minutes of pretend play is 3 minutes more than you expected to see

-- so you're way ahead of the game! Enjoy!

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

> That would be " infant baby dolls " - not baby infants.

> Really.

> I have no need for baby infants. Really!

>

> Grace

Are you sure that wasn't a freudian slip revealing your baby envy? I'M going

through massive baby envy right now...(tis the season)

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

This sounds very familiar. Jacqui was never a doll person either. Just

recently she started playing with Barbies, pretty much appropriately...But,

sometimes I'll catch her just sitting there chewing on various body parts.

LOL

penny

Progress !!!! or ... not?

Well, one of the things i needed to get for the home program were baby

infants.

I already knew my children didn't like baby dolls, but well, since it had it

written, I did.

Go figure, both took a liking to the dolls and today - Syd was allowed to

carry one out with her as she did an imitation of " so pretty " while rubbing

the baby's bald head. <She actually said, " suh bay " which is kinda

similar.... sorta>

Anyhow, I was so giddy watching her do this. Real pretend play! Real toy

imitation! Real kid!

Only, 2 minutes ago, I found her sitting in the living room, chewing on the

dolls forehead.

Well now there is a loud reminder as to why I won't be having more of these

chillun'.

Grace

[Guest guest]

I NEVER have baby envy. THANK GOODNESS!

Penny :-D

Re: Progress !!!! or ... not?

> That would be " infant baby dolls " - not baby infants.

> Really.

> I have no need for baby infants. Really!

>

> Grace

Are you sure that wasn't a freudian slip revealing your baby envy? I'M

going through massive baby envy right now...(tis the season)

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

What? She couldn't chew on a real baby's head? See

now Ebony likes all her dolls, barbies, kens, etc to

be naked. Go figure, I found her in the crib with the

baby once.....undressing him. She had all the snaps

undone and his feet out. But really, other than

dropping him on the floor twice, she has never harmed

him and actually has started to interact with him very

well. LOL

Tamara

--- Grace Keh wrote:

> Well, one of the things i needed to get for the home

> program were baby

> infants.

> I already knew my children didn't like baby dolls,

> but well, since it had it

> written, I did.

>

> Go figure, both took a liking to the dolls and today

> - Syd was allowed to

> carry one out with her as she did an imitation of

> " so pretty " while rubbing

> the baby's bald head. <She actually said, " suh bay "

> which is kinda

> similar.... sorta>

> Anyhow, I was so giddy watching her do this. Real

> pretend play! Real toy

> imitation! Real kid!

>

> Only, 2 minutes ago, I found her sitting in the

> living room, chewing on the

> dolls forehead.

>

> Well now there is a loud reminder as to why I won't

> be having more of these

> chillun'.

>

> Grace

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> be naked. Go figure, I found her in the crib with the

> baby once.....undressing him. She had all the snaps

> undone and his feet out. But really, other than

> dropping him on the floor twice, she has never harmed

> him and actually has started to interact with him very

> well. LOL

Now there is a statement you won't hear coming from most NT moms LOL!!!

) Ebony is hilarious!!!

Grace

[Guest guest]

> Are you sure that wasn't a freudian slip revealing your baby envy? I'M

going through massive baby envy right now...(tis the season)

>

> Jacquie

POSITIVE.

Nobody could be further from wanting a baby than I am right now.

I repeat - - NOBODY.

When my girls are 's age, it might be different.

But I do not, do not, and just in case you didn't hear me, DO NOT want any

more children.

Sheesh... you would think I don't like the ones I have huh? LOL

Grace

[Guest guest]

rotflmao!

> That would be " infant baby dolls " - not baby infants.

> Really.

> I have no need for baby infants. Really!

>

> Grace

> Progress !!!! or ... not?

>

>

> > Well, one of the things i needed to get for the home program were

baby

> > infants.

> > I already knew my children didn't like baby dolls, but well,

since it had

> it

> > written, I did.

> >

> > Go figure, both took a liking to the dolls and today - Syd was

allowed to

> > carry one out with her as she did an imitation of " so pretty "

while

> rubbing

> > the baby's bald head. <She actually said, " suh bay " which is

kinda

> > similar.... sorta>

> > Anyhow, I was so giddy watching her do this. Real pretend play!

Real toy

> > imitation! Real kid!

> >

> > Only, 2 minutes ago, I found her sitting in the living room,

chewing on

> the

> > dolls forehead.

> >

> > Well now there is a loud reminder as to why I won't be having

more of

> these

> > chillun'.

> >

> > Grace

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> I NEVER have baby envy. THANK GOODNESS!

>

> Penny :-D

It's got me pretty good right now. :-(

My two best friends are pregnant, another friend who doesn't even appreciate the

kid she's got is trying for another one with her trashy boyfriend she's had for

6 months who moved in with her a week after they met and who she is trying to

force her daughter to call daddy, there are more pregnancies around, and I got a

letter on the FlyLady list last night as a testimonial about how FlyLady helped

this woman take control of her life and have another baby due in October...and

last Wednesday, every third book I shelved at the library was a story about a 5

year old getting used to the new baby or learning about the baby in mommy's

tummy...I cried most of the time I was there.

So Marc and I talked and talked and talked about it on our vacation, and had

tentatively decided on genetic testing...but the truth is, if we found that *I*

had passed something on that would be OK, and if we found that we *both* had

passed something on *that* would be ok, but if we found that *Marc* passed

something on I would lose him to the pit of depression and self-hatred for a

long, long time. That's just him. He wouldn't be able to bear the weight of

the blame he'd pile onto himself. And nothing is worth torturing him that way,

not even another chance at a baby.

Could I handle another autistic child? Maybe -- but there are so many factors

to consider, including my own post-partum depression, which, given the bipolar

disorder, is guaranteed. Would I torture us all, watching the new baby

obsessively? Probably. What if the baby was NT -- would I favor that one? I'm

terrified that I would. Absolutely terrified. I don't think everybody would,

who had an NT child after an autie, but I am scared to death that *I* would.

We don't have the moeny for a private adoption. It can take up to three years

to adopt through children's aid.

So after all that talking, we ended up back at the same place we started --

is an only child, and will stay that way. It's just hard to grasp and accept

that. I think I'm going through the stages of grief about this just as much as

I did about autism. It is, without question, the death of a dream. When Marc

and I reconciled way way back, before we got married, we sat down and talked

about the things we wanted in our life together. Three children was the

concensus and was always the plan -- it was the focal point of the whole dream.

When we were out for dinner on our anniversary, there was a boy at the next

table about 15 years old who looked EXACTLY like Marc at that age, hauntingly

so, so much so that MARC saw it, and remarked that he lost his virginity to a

girl he never saw again 15 years ago... It haunted me, that. Marc is a

singularly looking person, and this boy even had the height and the same posture

and gawky mannerisms... What if he, on a crazy chance, DID see his own son that

night? This tall, beautiful NT boy who looked just like him, but would never be

his... <sigh>

I've gone on long enough now. If you've made it to this point in my pity party,

thanks. It was therapeutic to write it all down.

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

Jacquie, as you know, I do not " want " another child.

That said - if I did, then I'd have another. ONE more time is okay.

Now, given your PPD problems - it's a legit cause for worry.

But favoritism?

Neglecting ?

Naah.

I know that with *MY* experiences, my girls and I have been through entirely

too much for me to favor anyone else over these children. An NT kid? Sure,

it'd be great. And I would appreciate one beyond all expectations. BUT -

favoring that child is not possible. That child, no matter how long he or

she is in existence, cannot take the place of my girls in my heart. With

each painful step we have taken along this route thus far, they have BURNED

and SEARED themselves into my being, my heart, my soul. I say that not to

sound tacky, but because I honestly do feel that is the case. If my twins

had been easy - if it had all been perfect, I suppose I could have a

favorite. But because everything has been so difficult - - I could never

favor another child over them. They represent everything I have had to give

in the last nearly 4 years. They are the examples of everything in me.

They are the living representatives of all that both Shaun and I had to

give, both by force and desire. And, they got it all mixed in with a whole

lot of innocence from not knowing better. <That is - being a first-time

mom, I did not know better than to deplete myself of everything>.

An NT child comes along, and you would enjoy it more than you did , for

sure. What is not to enjoy? But -- I think in your heart, it would always

be .

If I feel this way after 4 years, you must feel even more. And given the

wonderfully strange and fascinating relationship you two have formed - I

would bet that YOU, for sure, could never favor another kid more. You've

just given too much to do that.

Grace - who hopes she made on iota of sense, as she really needs to pack

lunches now.

Re: Progress !!!! or ... not?

>

>

> > I NEVER have baby envy. THANK GOODNESS!

> >

> > Penny :-D

>

>

> It's got me pretty good right now. :-(

>

> My two best friends are pregnant, another friend who doesn't even

appreciate the kid she's got is trying for another one with her trashy

boyfriend she's had for 6 months who moved in with her a week after they met

and who she is trying to force her daughter to call daddy, there are more

pregnancies around, and I got a letter on the FlyLady list last night as a

testimonial about how FlyLady helped this woman take control of her life and

have another baby due in October...and last Wednesday, every third book I

shelved at the library was a story about a 5 year old getting used to the

new baby or learning about the baby in mommy's tummy...I cried most of the

time I was there.

>

> So Marc and I talked and talked and talked about it on our vacation, and

had tentatively decided on genetic testing...but the truth is, if we found

that *I* had passed something on that would be OK, and if we found that we

*both* had passed something on *that* would be ok, but if we found that

*Marc* passed something on I would lose him to the pit of depression and

self-hatred for a long, long time. That's just him. He wouldn't be able to

bear the weight of the blame he'd pile onto himself. And nothing is worth

torturing him that way, not even another chance at a baby.

>

> Could I handle another autistic child? Maybe -- but there are so many

factors to consider, including my own post-partum depression, which, given

the bipolar disorder, is guaranteed. Would I torture us all, watching the

new baby obsessively? Probably. What if the baby was NT -- would I favor

that one? I'm terrified that I would. Absolutely terrified. I don't think

everybody would, who had an NT child after an autie, but I am scared to

death that *I* would.

>

> We don't have the moeny for a private adoption. It can take up to three

years to adopt through children's aid.

>

> So after all that talking, we ended up back at the same place we

started -- is an only child, and will stay that way. It's just hard to

grasp and accept that. I think I'm going through the stages of grief about

this just as much as I did about autism. It is, without question, the death

of a dream. When Marc and I reconciled way way back, before we got married,

we sat down and talked about the things we wanted in our life together.

Three children was the concensus and was always the plan -- it was the focal

point of the whole dream.

>

> When we were out for dinner on our anniversary, there was a boy at the

next table about 15 years old who looked EXACTLY like Marc at that age,

hauntingly so, so much so that MARC saw it, and remarked that he lost his

virginity to a girl he never saw again 15 years ago... It haunted me, that.

Marc is a singularly looking person, and this boy even had the height and

the same posture and gawky mannerisms... What if he, on a crazy chance, DID

see his own son that night? This tall, beautiful NT boy who looked just

like him, but would never be his... <sigh>

>

> I've gone on long enough now. If you've made it to this point in my pity

party, thanks. It was therapeutic to write it all down.

>

> Jacquie

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> When we were out for dinner on our anniversary, there was a boy at the

next table about 15 years old who looked EXACTLY like Marc at that age,

hauntingly so, so much so that MARC saw it, and remarked that he lost his

virginity to a girl he never saw again 15 years ago... It haunted me, that.

Marc is a singularly looking person, and this boy even had the height and

the same posture and gawky mannerisms... What if he, on a crazy chance, DID

see his own son that night? This tall, beautiful NT boy who looked just

like him, but would never be his... <sigh>

>

I came back because i have one more comment:

There is also one beautiful boy who looks just like him in your own house.

How uncannily he will look like his father, behave like his father, at the

age of 15 is yet to be seen. The irony in that statement is that Marc

ALREADY has a boy just like that. Marc already has a boy just like that.

Grace - who now has to give up on egg salad sandwiches and shoot for PB & J's.

LOL!!

[Guest guest]

> If I feel this way after 4 years, you must feel even more. And given the

> wonderfully strange and fascinating relationship you two have formed -

That is not the first time someone has said something like that on the list

about me and . I have to admit that I don't understand it. WHAT kind of

unique (Penny's word), wonderfully strange and fascinating relationship have

and I formed?

Honestly, when someone says that to me, I have NO IDEA what they mean! I don't

think and I are different from anybody else...are we?

Confused,

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

I suppose it's difficult to see if you're the one IN the relationship. Or

more accurately, ALL mother-child relationships are special, so why is it

that others say your relationship w/ is special in particular?

Well, I don't know the reasons for anyone else's comments.

But here is how I see it.

You understand inherently in my opinion. It's a tad bit different than

my understanding my kids. I do, but you feel it. Maybe it's because you

are bipolar, or maybe it's because you are just marvelously understanding?

Or maybe it's because you're strange? LOL. Or maybe it's because you

spent many prior years to , understanding Marc? And your own

autistic-like qualities? I don't know. But your relationship with is

quite wondrous.

It " seems " to me that you have a connection of sorts to . Kindred

spirits, perhaps? And he, to you, too.

Just like an autistic kid must, you also ride the waves. I observe Madison

and see how one day is so damn difficult for her to cope with life in

general, and the next day, minus the fact that she doesn't talk, she is so

close to normal it is unbelieveable. In your e-mails, I see a lot of that.

To a degree, all of us feel that way. I know I do. In the morning - I will

be okay. In the evening, I could be going through a massive cryfest because

life is just horrible. But with you - - you ride much higher waves, have

stronger crashes, and while that falls under being bipolar, I think a lot of

ASD kids experience that WITHOUT being bipolar, and it seems to me like you

understand that. That is one of the hardest things for me to understand.

When Madison just finds life SO DIFFICULT when I am doing all I can to make

it easy for her - - I near hate her. I mean, I give all I can, do all I can

to make life smooth and fun for this kid, and here she is, unable to even

hear my damn voice one morning, or unable to deal with getting dressed or

drinking her juice. It's like, " Just give me a break... one small break. "

But with you and - you guys both seem to be on those waves together.

He rides a wave, you ride with him. He crashes (as in taking a backstep or

two, or three... or being rotten and insulting, etc.), and you are surely

not far behind. When you are both at the top - - you can view each other

with a feeling of success, of triumph. When wallowing at the bottom - you

can also work off of each other, step on one another to climb back up. I

have witnessed that boy single-handedly change your view on life with one

action, albeit only in e-mail.

With Madison and myself - - once in awhile, we meet in the middle. Other

times, she is riding high while I am scum-sucking at the bottom of the

ocean. Other times, I will be way up there, and she is drowning in sand....

and because I am not autistic - - her whereabouts, her mood, and her overall

well-being does affect me, and I get brought back down to the sand with her.

Do you see what I am saying?

I view your relationship to as " special " because you guys parallel one

another. That is not just a correlation, that is a true " you go, I go " kind

of relationship, and it's not attained just by trying or being a good mom.

It either is, or it isn't, and in your case, I feel like it is.

I hope I made some sense.

Grace

Re: Progress !!!! or ... not?

>

> > If I feel this way after 4 years, you must feel even more. And given

the

> > wonderfully strange and fascinating relationship you two have formed -

>

> That is not the first time someone has said something like that on the

list about me and . I have to admit that I don't understand it. WHAT

kind of unique (Penny's word), wonderfully strange and fascinating

relationship have and I formed?

>

> Honestly, when someone says that to me, I have NO IDEA what they mean! I

don't think and I are different from anybody else...are we?

>

> Confused,

> Jacquie

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What if the baby was NT -- would I favor that one? I'm terrified that I

would.

You would not.

Salli

[Guest guest]

WHAT kind of unique (Penny's word), wonderfully strange and fascinating

relationship have and I formed?

>

We all have wonderfully strange and fascinating relationships with our

autistic children because there is no other way to have a relationship with

a little space alien.

Salli

[Guest guest]

Jacquie -

I would have know idea how to explain this to you, so please just take my

word for it...

Penny

>>> WHAT kind of unique (Penny's word), wonderfully strange and fascinating

relationship have and I formed?

Honestly, when someone says that to me, I have NO IDEA what they mean! I

don't think and I are different from anybody else...are we?

<<<<<

[Guest guest]

Jacquie: I have only one thing to say about this. If

adoption is an option.....then three years should not

be a big thing. I forget how the saying goes, but

either way three years will be gone. If you go for

it, you could have that child in three years. If not,

you will still be wondering and wanting another child

in three years. That time passes regardless of what

you do or don't do. Does that make sense? I love the

idea of adoption. There are so many kids out there

who miss out on having a loving family. And yours is

loving. If you would be content with an adopted

child....go for it!

I didn't understand if this was a financial issue also

or not?

Just my opinion,

Tamara

--- The Hunny Family wrote:

>

>

> > I NEVER have baby envy. THANK GOODNESS!

> >

> > Penny :-D

>

>

> It's got me pretty good right now. :-(

>

> My two best friends are pregnant, another friend who

> doesn't even appreciate the kid she's got is trying

> for another one with her trashy boyfriend she's had

> for 6 months who moved in with her a week after they

> met and who she is trying to force her daughter to

> call daddy, there are more pregnancies around, and I

> got a letter on the FlyLady list last night as a

> testimonial about how FlyLady helped this woman take

> control of her life and have another baby due in

> October...and last Wednesday, every third book I

> shelved at the library was a story about a 5 year

> old getting used to the new baby or learning about

> the baby in mommy's tummy...I cried most of the time

> I was there.

>

> So Marc and I talked and talked and talked about it

> on our vacation, and had tentatively decided on

> genetic testing...but the truth is, if we found that

> *I* had passed something on that would be OK, and if

> we found that we *both* had passed something on

> *that* would be ok, but if we found that *Marc*

> passed something on I would lose him to the pit of

> depression and self-hatred for a long, long time.

> That's just him. He wouldn't be able to bear the

> weight of the blame he'd pile onto himself. And

> nothing is worth torturing him that way, not even

> another chance at a baby.

>

> Could I handle another autistic child? Maybe -- but

> there are so many factors to consider, including my

> own post-partum depression, which, given the bipolar

> disorder, is guaranteed. Would I torture us all,

> watching the new baby obsessively? Probably. What

> if the baby was NT -- would I favor that one? I'm

> terrified that I would. Absolutely terrified. I

> don't think everybody would, who had an NT child

> after an autie, but I am scared to death that *I*

> would.

>

> We don't have the moeny for a private adoption. It

> can take up to three years to adopt through

> children's aid.

>

> So after all that talking, we ended up back at the

> same place we started -- is an only child, and

> will stay that way. It's just hard to grasp and

> accept that. I think I'm going through the stages

> of grief about this just as much as I did about

> autism. It is, without question, the death of a

> dream. When Marc and I reconciled way way back,

> before we got married, we sat down and talked about

> the things we wanted in our life together. Three

> children was the concensus and was always the plan

> -- it was the focal point of the whole dream.

>

> When we were out for dinner on our anniversary,

> there was a boy at the next table about 15 years old

> who looked EXACTLY like Marc at that age, hauntingly

> so, so much so that MARC saw it, and remarked that

> he lost his virginity to a girl he never saw again

> 15 years ago... It haunted me, that. Marc is a

> singularly looking person, and this boy even had the

> height and the same posture and gawky mannerisms...

> What if he, on a crazy chance, DID see his own son

> that night? This tall, beautiful NT boy who looked

> just like him, but would never be his... <sigh>

>

> I've gone on long enough now. If you've made it to

> this point in my pity party, thanks. It was

> therapeutic to write it all down.

>

> Jacquie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You did Grace...I knew you would..

Penny

>>>>>>

Do you see what I am saying?

I view your relationship to as " special " because you guys parallel one

another. That is not just a correlation, that is a true " you go, I go " kind

of relationship, and it's not attained just by trying or being a good mom.

It either is, or it isn't, and in your case, I feel like it is.

I hope I made some sense.

Grace

>>>>>

[Guest guest]

:-D, Salli

Penny

>>>>>

We all have wonderfully strange and fascinating relationships with our

autistic children because there is no other way to have a relationship with

a little space alien.

Salli

<<<<<

[Guest guest]

Definitely progress Grace and I think a great indication of what they will

do in the future. Kep started some minor pretend play at the same time and

now he has several toys that he plays with quite appropriately. Right now

is the dollhouse. He loves the baby in that house and is putting her in the

bed, saying " good night " and then pulling the covers off and singing,

" goooood morning. " Makes me laugh.

Amy

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

[Guest guest]

> Jacquie: I have only one thing to say about this. If

> adoption is an option.....then three years should not

> be a big thing.

Three years wouldn't be a big thing, if it didn't cost $1000 to even get on the

stupid waiting list.

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

> Do you see what I am saying?

> I view your relationship to as " special " because you guys parallel one

> another. That is not just a correlation, that is a true " you go, I go " kind

> of relationship, and it's not attained just by trying or being a good mom.

> It either is, or it isn't, and in your case, I feel like it is.

>

> I hope I made some sense.

You did. And you said the same thing Marc always says, except HE phrases it

" the two of you feed off each other " and says it with a scowl...

Jacquie