RE: OT: Wood floorings

July 2, 2010

Thane, thanks much for the detailed reply. I surely learnt a lot from the past

few days' discussion on wood floorings.

Limin

> Limin, Each board used in hardwood flooring isn't milled to be exactly the

same thickness because they generally end up being sanded anyway. So some

boards will be higher and some lower which wont look very good but worse might

leave some sharp edges that can catch a toe, or give slivers. But that might be

a small price to pay for a good clean floor. Some mills produce more even

boards than others so its something you could ask your contractor. Also, I

mostly installed maple, pine, walnut and brazillian cherry, so its possible if

you went with something like a bamboo the seams would be more level.

>

> Make sure also the subfloor is as level as possible and all the joints between

the plywood are sanded smooth as this will allow the hardwood that goes down on

top of it to lay more flat and even. In later model homes this isn't usually

such a problem, but in older homes that have settled the subfloor can be a

nightmare.

>

> Another thought is if you do go with an unsanded floor a wider board might

look nicer and also leave less uneven edges.

>

> Generally before a finish is applied the floor needs to be buffed to open up

the grain in the wood, which does cause some dust. If the floor isn't sanded

first before buffing the rough edges will tear up the sand paper/screen on the

buffer making it difficult, if not impossible to buff. And if it can be buffed

some of the low spots wont get hit with the buffer and will likely need to be

buffed by hand in order to get the finish to take evenly. But maybe Danish Oil

and Beeswax can be applied without first buffing the floor.

>

> Yes, you can always sand it later! I've never sanded a Danish Oil or Beeswax

finished floor but generally waxes and oils on hardwood clog up the sanding

belts, so it might be more expensive to do.

>

> These are just my thoughts though... I have't tried this myself. Good luck!

>

> Thane

>

>>>>

>>>> I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home

and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s.

unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among

all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions

here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related

questions.

>>>>

>>>> For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings

are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide,

even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are

thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can

anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just

install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand

them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become

lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the

fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but

feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.

>>>>

>>>> Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have

been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might

contribute much to his health issues.

>>>>

>>>> Limin

>>>>

>>>

>>> ------------------------------------

>>>

July 31, 2010

Hi, I want to update the group on our decision. We purchased Kahrs hardwood floors online. This is an 150-years-old brand from Sweden. A few websites we found offer around 40% discount in comparison with the pricing offered in the stores. Kahrs uses the Woodloc joint system; it is so called floating floors that do not require glue for installation. The finishing is acrylic acid instead of aluminum oxide or titanium oxide commonly used for hardwood floors. Acrylic acid is rapidly biodegraded and does not accumulate in the environment. If absorbed, they can be rapidly broken down and eliminated, primarily in expired air as carbon dioxide. http://www.kahrs.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Kahrs%20Magazine%202010/KAHRS_Magazine2010_US_web.pdfThank you for those who replied to this thread to guide me down to this decision. I now have another question. Although it mostly does not require glue down, the corner pieces of wood plank adjunctive to a door or serving as transition to tile floor however need a small amount of glue. Our contractor brought to show us a bottle of Liquid Nails, which contains titanium oxide. Does anyone know an environment-friendly brand we can use to replace Liquid Nails, or a store in the bay area we can go to check out their green building products? Thanks much for the group's further guidance. Kahrs is an expensive brand. To take out the remaining funds in our flexible spending account to partially pay for the floor for medical necessity, we have a prescription written by my son's doctor to recommend replacing carpet floors with non-toxic, green floors. Since there is no single ICD-9 code for Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, we use 995.3 (allergy unspecified not elsewhere classified) and 346.80 (other forms of migraine without mention of intractable migraine without mention of status migrainosus). Both are insurance billable codes.PS: An update on my son's eye tics -- Upon removing Mucuna Bean Powder (Biopure) and Advanced neurotransmitter Support (Neuro Biologix), my son's eye tics stopped. In our case, excessive dopamine seemed to cause his eye tics. http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/67/6/800.abstracthttp://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/2085LiminOn Jul 1, 2010, at 11:16 PM, Limin Tseng wrote:Thanks to all who replied this thread and providing the valuable information both online and offline.I am happy to report back that my son's persistent sinus congestion and excessive mucus for the last 3 months finally cleared away, after increasing liquid Allimed to 10 drops (nebulizing) and 1 capsule of Young Living Inner Defense twice a day for a few days. He however still has eye tic which started a month ago. Last time he developed eye tic, it was two summers ago when he took LDM-100 to treat viruses without his regular support of BH4 and methyl B12 shots, because we were traveling overseas. He has not been receiving B12 injections for about one month, too. Since he started refusing the shots, I have only given him sublingual hydroxy B12. Perhaps sublingual is not as effective as the shots? Has any one had the similar experience?LiminAlso, Debora Lynn Dadd's archives may be researched; she's has been at this for over twenty years and has published several books on nontoxic and natural living -- all subjects, an amazing resource. She is available as a consultant also if you call her; she is easy to reach by internet. Since Debora began, there are several others out there doing more or less the same thing, but Debora was the first. Inspections by certified Baubiologie inspectors are worthwhile; I had one, and it helped a condo EMF situation. Also, since Katrina's complex toxin scenarios and then the more recent Chinese toxic drywall scandal, having a certified inspector prescreen and doublecheck any construction job ongoing and before signoff or final payment can save you much trouble. I would say this info applies to all on this list: we are in a new world where protection from toxins in all areas of life should be the commonsense norm.To: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Sent: Thu, July 1, 2010 2:32:31 PMSubject: Re: Re: OT: Wood flooringsLimin,Hello and thanks for all your contributions. There are nontoxic acrylic-sealed , formaldehyde- free five-layer hardwood veneers out there; there are so many out there that many are really beautiful and cost less than real solid wood. My acupuncturist has bamboo flooring that was carefully researched. Nontoxic cork flooring is also beautiful. Nontoxic beautifully designed linoleums are also available. Unsealed floors will look terrible along family traffic paths in a short time and be nearly impossible to refinish. Be careful during carpet removal and leave the house; the years of toxic dust from removal will go everywhere and pull up nails from the concrete, adding concrete dust. You may want to have this step done by professional certified mold remediators (Florida has at least 5-7 remediation certifications) ; they know how to protect space from such debris and the really best certified will have the right air handlers to keep the air pure during the process. An MCS friend went through this and even the nail holes in the old terazzo had to be covered, and it still did not work and she had to leave. Very complex issues here. The concrete base may have toxic stuff mixed into it and you probably should not be exposed. Florida law specifies that PESTICIDES must be mixed into the home concrete slab! Who knows that except maybe the few people who have found out about the state pesticide registry?? But carpeting is a petri dish of spores and microorganisms and, I believe, does not belong in a home where anyone is ill. Some people afford replacement by doing one room at a time. The Daily Green website I think has archives of past issues featuring such things; there is the search term green nontoxic flooring, if you haven't already checked that out; leads from the NEEDS pharmacy people and the magazine Our Toxic Times maybe; and there is the green building magazine Dwell which advertises these things all the time. Be sure to ask for the technical specs of the material you choose and have a nontoxic green remediator check the ingredients for your safety. Green does not mean nontoxic! There must be how-to-choose nontoxic flooring articles and books on the net by now. Also have your heating/ac ducts tested and protected by the certified remediating contractor you might call in; junk can get in there and start growing from carpet removal or some other source. Good luck, and be sure to check all contractors through Annie's List on the web or at least the state atty. general for consumer fraud and the BBB for past complaints. You can't be too careful when protecting family health. By the way, a news article was mentioned the other day that said some US medical society has now created a name for a mental illness for a person who insists on eating organically or healthily: can anyone verify this?From: thane17 <thane17yahoo (DOT) com>To: BorreliaMultipleInf ectionsAndAutism @yahoogroups. comSent: Tue, June 29, 2010 5:02:47 AMSubject: [borreliaMultipleIn fectionsAndAutis m] Re: OT: Wood floorings Limin,I used to do hardwood install sands and finishes. If you go with an unfinished hardwood install you might want to search around for a company that can do a "dust free" sand for you. If they poly off most of the house and have the powerful vacums hooked up to the sanders its fairly dust free. If you leave the floor unsanded the boards might be uneven enough that they cause a problem. I don't have any ideas about clean finishes though..Thane >> I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s. unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related questions.> > For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.> > Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might contribute much to his health issues.> > Limin>

August 1, 2010

Thank you so much for sharing all this information, great to know about using

medical codes for such things....

do you know if those products you took out have magnesium stearate in them, I

have found that products with any form mag stearate make my sons tics come back

or worsen them...

deborah

> >> >

> >> > I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home

and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s.

unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among

all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions

here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related

questions.

> >> >

> >> > For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings