RE: OT: Wood floorings

[Guest guest]

Limin

 

We have one unfinished oak floor which installed about 6 years ago and it is just fine as long as you can guarantee no water. It is Makayla's room and we have considered paste wax and buffer.. did light sand it with very small grit...I think we found one paste made mostly of bee's wax and other plant products but as I can recall you must still be careful with water or you will get a white spot. We do have the buffer here should you decide to go that route....then there are several water base non off gassing seals made from Safecoat brand. We have our front gate sealed with it and everyone complements it....it's not going to last like the poly.....I am thinking if one can get a teak wood at lumbar liquidators for little money...it may be the good one to go unfinished as my dad used to have teak wood on his boat and it was never sealed and did just fine also used for outdoor furniture....so it may discolor but so what?What you must make sure is it is solid hard wood and not wood veneer over some off gassing plywood full of glues.You got me on the prefinished as we put that in our bedroom because of Makaya's MCS. There was no noticeable odor but I am with you and would avoid aluminum....why is it in there anyway?????

 

 

Hugs

 

I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s. unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related questions.

For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.

Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might contribute much to his health issues.Limin

[Guest guest]

Hi Limin,I have not redone my hardwood floors for this very reason. I know there are good options out there...I just don't know what they are. I can tell you that my son Ian's asthma, allergies, sinus stuff, earaches, etc. all dissappeared after I ripped out all the carpeting in our house. In our current flat, I just left the floors as the plywood subfloor and covered with really cheap throw rugs. It looks terrible, but it did the trick for keeping Ian from being sick. So, good luck, it's a very good idea. Hardwood floors seem to help all of the respiratory stuff and I like that they can be kept clean with mild cleaners. -To: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism From: limin@...Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 15:56:32 -0700Subject: OT: Wood floorings

I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s. unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related questions.

For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.

Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might contribute much to his health issues.

Limin

[Guest guest]

Limin,

I used to do hardwood install sands and finishes. If you go with an unfinished

hardwood install you might want to search around for a company that can do a

" dust free " sand for you. If they poly off most of the house and have the

powerful vacums hooked up to the sanders its fairly dust free. If you leave

the floor unsanded the boards might be uneven enough that they cause a problem.

I don't have any ideas about clean finishes though..

Thane

>

> I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home and

install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s. unfinished

floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among all public

forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions here. I

appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related

questions.

>

> For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are

treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide,

even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are

thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can

anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just

install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand

them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become

lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the

fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but

feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.

>

> Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have been

having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might

contribute much to his health issues.

>

> Limin

>

[Guest guest]

I looked into this years ago. The laminate floors are the ones with

aluminum oxide, so I didn't consider those. There are all-natural wood

sealing finishes, but they are so natural that they can actually harbor

mold. Linoleum is natural, but there will be some unnatural products

likely used in the making of it. You can buy linoleum that looks like

wood. We went with the cork floating floor by www.ifloor.com because no

glue was needed. But, since it's not a hard floor, and the lower part

of the floating planks are made of press-board, you can get warping if a

spill is not cleaned up right away. Wiping them with a damp cloth or

mop is not enough water to seep down the cracks and warp. You can also

do the glue-down cork flooring which doesn't have any press-board which

would eliminate the need for water spilling concerns. I used glue in my

old house with wood flooring and the glue smell didn't appear to bother

anyone. We probably used a low smell glue of some sort. They are

making caulk, glue, and paints with lesser fumes nowadays, and often no

smell, actually, at least not noticeable. Basically, I have vinyl in my

kitchen and bathrooms and cork wood flooring in my bedrooms. Vinyl was

the only choice that my home-builder would do or I would have gotten

linoleum. When I looked into wood sealants, I was told that they are

all hazardous while drying, but are thought to not only not out-gas soon

after drying, but also are considered safe, just as eating off of

finished tables is safe. You absolutely have to finish wood or it will

ruin and mold. We do a lot of wood-work here and lacquer is used on

tables without noticeable problems from reactions. Put us near some

carpeting, and all kinds of symptoms appear. I tried and tried to see

what is approved for use on eating surfaces as a wood-finisher, and

everyone I contacted said that all sealants are safe when they are

dried. That's all I could find, and so far we just use lacquer.

Love and prayers,

Heidi N

For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood

floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to

avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they

will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings

to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing

that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and

leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will

the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we

don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished

wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant

because of not knowing what to expect down the road.

[Guest guest]

what about 100% natural beeswax?? not sure if it would work on a floor.

Roseann

www.cutelittlething.etsy.com

www.flickr.com/photos/cutelittlething

Re: OT: Wood floorings

I looked into this years ago. The laminate floors are the ones with aluminum oxide, so I didn't consider those. There are all-natural wood sealing finishes, but they are so natural that they can actually harbor mold. Linoleum is natural, but there will be some unnatural products likely used in the making of it. You can buy linoleum that looks like wood. We went with the cork floating floor by www.ifloor.com because no glue was needed. But, since it's not a hard floor, and the lower part of the floating planks are made of press-board, you can get warping if a spill is not cleaned up right away. Wiping them with a damp cloth or mop is not enough water to seep down the cracks and warp. You can also do the glue-down cork flooring which doesn't have any press-board which would eliminate the need for water spilling concerns. I used glue in my old house with wood flooring and the glue smell didn't appear to bother anyone. We probably used a low smell glue of some sort. They are making caulk, glue, and paints with lesser fumes nowadays, and often no smell, actually, at least not noticeable. Basically, I have vinyl in my kitchen and bathrooms and cork wood flooring in my bedrooms. Vinyl was the only choice that my home-builder would do or I would have gotten linoleum. When I looked into wood sealants, I was told that they are all hazardous while drying, but are thought to not only not out-gas soon after drying, but also are considered safe, just as eating off of finished tables is safe. You absolutely have to finish wood or it will ruin and mold. We do a lot of wood-work here and lacquer is used on tables without noticeable problems from reactions. Put us near some carpeting, and all kinds of symptoms appear. I tried and tried to see what is approved for use on eating surfaces as a wood-finisher, and everyone I contacted said that all sealants are safe when they are dried. That's all I could find, and so far we just use lacquer.

Love and prayers,

Heidi N

For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi Limin,

I, personally, don't think this is Off Topic, I think it's very ON! The indoor

air is a great factor in our health.

I want share with you a home remodeling disaster we had 7 years ago when an

irresponsible professional (recommended by a cooworker) did a lazy quick job.

He was supposed to re-finish old hardwood floors. He sanded it fine, and then,

instead of rolling on the oil-based polyurethane (which is more durable than

water-based) he just pored it on the floor and used a squeegee to push it

around. And instead of waiting for 24 hrs between the coats, he put 3 coats in 1

day in a 90% humidity. What happened was that poly dripped down to the

baseboard through spaces between the boards, hardened on the top, but never

really dried. As a result, we had to stay out of the house for 3 months! It was

impossible to stay inside for all the smell and headaches. 3 months later when

we had to remove all floors throughout the house, there were puddles of liquid

(!) poly under the hardwood. So,I would never do an unfinished floor and then

finish it in the house. One other thing to watch for is the subflooring that is

made of particle boards and may off-gas way more than a pre-finished (which

should be kiln-dried at the factory several times) hardwood.

If we had to move, I would probably do an unfinished floor, at least in the

bedrooms. There won't be (or shouldn't be) much liquids around and and therefore

don't see a reason for mold. Don't care about the looks. We have a small

screened-in porch with a cedar flooring - wide boards, was not very expensive

either. We had it under rain and snow for about 3 years and it didn't get moldy.

Only one spot where we had somehting leaking water on changed the color to

darker. And it's so easy to clean - I just use a mop or a piece of cloth and

give it a wash, and if I feel super-clean I add dishwasher liquied in the water

backet.

One more word of caution - all natural woods have some degree of a smell. I

know for sure oak has a strong smell and it took a few weeks for it to go away.

One diasvantage we experience is that that hardwood floors are cold and

....really hard You would need to put somehting down for the safety of

children playing and for the cold days. This is what my grand-parents had in

their countryside home in Europe - board floors and thick wool rugs. I think we

are going back to the basics.

Good luck with your search and, please, keep us posted.

KIM

[Guest guest]

I got unfinished wood--tongue in groove, no glue-- and used Danish Oil to finish in my last house--no VOCs. In my experience it is not good to leave it unfinished. I didn't have time to put the danish oil on our new stairs in the old house and within two months it was scuffed up and looked horrible. I had to sand it and finish it with the Danish oil. The danish oil held up fine for the two years we were there. In the old days before the advent of polyurethane that is what people used and it lasted well. There are now sealants that are no VOC that AFM makes, I believe. In our new house we re-did the one floor that had carpet--the kid's play room--in Marmoleum--natural linoleum. Cork is also a good option although beware of anything with pressboard or glued backing as it may outgas formaldehyde and other chemicals even if it doesn't smell bad.I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s. unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related questions.For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might contribute much to his health issues.Limin

[Guest guest]

Not off topic at all...I found that bamboo wood with a beeswax finish was the

option that was least toxic (it didn't off gas). You need to find a contractor

that knows how to install bamboo wood floors, though. It looks very similar to

hardwood, just a lighter shade.

> >

> > I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home

and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s.

unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among

all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions

here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related

questions.

> >

> > For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are

treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide,

even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are

thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can

anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just

install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand

them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become

lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the

fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but

feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.

> >

> > Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have

been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might

contribute much to his health issues.

> >

> > Limin

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Limin,Hello and thanks for all your contributions. There are nontoxic acrylic-sealed , formaldehyde-free five-layer hardwood veneers out there; there are so many out there that many are really beautiful and cost less than real solid wood. My acupuncturist has bamboo flooring that was carefully researched. Nontoxic cork flooring is also beautiful. Nontoxic beautifully designed linoleums are also available. Unsealed floors will look terrible along family traffic paths in a short time and be nearly impossible to refinish. Be careful during carpet removal and leave the house; the years of toxic dust from removal will go everywhere and pull

up nails from the concrete, adding concrete dust. You may want to have this step done by professional certified mold remediators (Florida has at least 5-7 remediation certifications); they know how to protect space from such debris and the really best certified will have the right air handlers to keep the air pure during the process. An MCS friend went through this and even the nail holes in the old terazzo had to be covered, and it still did not work and she had to leave. Very complex issues here. The concrete base may have toxic stuff mixed into it and you probably should not be exposed. Florida law specifies that PESTICIDES must be mixed into the home concrete slab! Who knows that except maybe the few people who have found out about the state pesticide registry?? But carpeting is a petri dish of spores and microorganisms and, I believe, does not

belong in a home where anyone is ill. Some people afford replacement by doing one room at a time. The Daily Green website I think has archives of past issues featuring such things; there is the search term green nontoxic flooring, if you haven't already checked that out; leads from the NEEDS pharmacy people and the magazine Our Toxic Times maybe; and there is the green building magazine Dwell which advertises these things all the time. Be sure to ask for the technical specs of the material you choose and have a nontoxic green remediator check the ingredients for your safety. Green does not mean nontoxic! There must be how-to-choose nontoxic flooring articles and books on the net by now. Also have your heating/ac ducts tested and protected by the certified remediating contractor you might call in; junk can get in there and start growing from carpet removal or some

other source. Good luck, and be sure to check all contractors through Annie's List on the web or at least the state atty. general for consumer fraud and the BBB for past complaints. You can't be too careful when protecting family health. By the way, a news article was mentioned the other day that said some US medical society has now created a name for a mental illness for a person who insists on eating organically or healthily: can anyone verify this?To:

BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 5:02:47 AMSubject: Re: OT: Wood floorings

Limin,

I used to do hardwood install sands and finishes. If you go with an unfinished hardwood install you might want to search around for a company that can do a "dust free" sand for you. If they poly off most of the house and have the powerful vacums hooked up to the sanders its fairly dust free. If you leave the floor unsanded the boards might be uneven enough that they cause a problem.

I don't have any ideas about clean finishes though..

Thane

>

> I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s. unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related questions.

>

> For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.

>

> Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might contribute much to his health issues.

>

> Limin

>

[Guest guest]

Also, Debora Lynn Dadd's archives may be researched; she's has been at this for over twenty years and has published several books on nontoxic and natural living -- all subjects, an amazing resource. She is available as a consultant also if you call her; she is easy to reach by internet. Since Debora began, there are several others out there doing more or less the same thing, but Debora was the first. Inspections by certified Baubiologie inspectors are worthwhile; I had one, and it helped a condo EMF situation. Also, since Katrina's complex toxin scenarios and then the more recent Chinese toxic drywall scandal, having a certified inspector prescreen and doublecheck any construction job ongoing and before signoff or final payment can save you much trouble. I would say this info

applies to all on this list: we are in a new world where protection from toxins in all areas of life should be the commonsense norm.To: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Sent: Thu, July 1, 2010 2:32:31 PMSubject: Re: Re: OT: Wood floorings

Limin,Hello and thanks for all your contributions. There are nontoxic acrylic-sealed , formaldehyde- free five-layer hardwood veneers out there; there are so many out there that many are really beautiful and cost less than real solid wood. My acupuncturist has bamboo flooring that was carefully researched. Nontoxic cork flooring is also beautiful. Nontoxic beautifully designed linoleums are also available. Unsealed floors will look terrible along family traffic paths in a short time and be nearly impossible to refinish. Be careful during carpet removal and leave the house; the years of toxic dust from removal will go everywhere and pull

up nails from the concrete, adding concrete dust. You may want to have this step done by professional certified mold remediators (Florida has at least 5-7 remediation certifications) ; they know how to protect space from such debris and the really best certified will have the right air handlers to keep the air pure during the process. An MCS friend went through this and even the nail holes in the old terazzo had to be covered, and it still did not work and she had to leave. Very complex issues here. The concrete base may have toxic stuff mixed into it and you probably should not be exposed. Florida law specifies that PESTICIDES must be mixed into the home concrete slab! Who knows that except maybe the few people who have found out about the state pesticide registry?? But carpeting is a petri dish of spores and microorganisms and, I believe, does not

belong in a home where anyone is ill. Some people afford replacement by doing one room at a time. The Daily Green website I think has archives of past issues featuring such things; there is the search term green nontoxic flooring, if you haven't already checked that out; leads from the NEEDS pharmacy people and the magazine Our Toxic Times maybe; and there is the green building magazine Dwell which advertises these things all the time. Be sure to ask for the technical specs of the material you choose and have a nontoxic green remediator check the ingredients for your safety. Green does not mean nontoxic! There must be how-to-choose nontoxic flooring articles and books on the net by now. Also have your heating/ac ducts tested and protected by the certified remediating contractor you might call in; junk can get in there and start growing from carpet removal or some

other source. Good luck, and be sure to check all contractors through Annie's List on the web or at least the state atty. general for consumer fraud and the BBB for past complaints. You can't be too careful when protecting family health. By the way, a news article was mentioned the other day that said some US medical society has now created a name for a mental illness for a person who insists on eating organically or healthily: can anyone verify this?From: thane17 <thane17yahoo (DOT) com>To:

BorreliaMultipleInf ectionsAndAutism @yahoogroups. comSent: Tue, June 29, 2010 5:02:47 AMSubject: [borreliaMultipleIn fectionsAndAutis m] Re: OT: Wood floorings

Limin,

I used to do hardwood install sands and finishes. If you go with an unfinished hardwood install you might want to search around for a company that can do a "dust free" sand for you. If they poly off most of the house and have the powerful vacums hooked up to the sanders its fairly dust free. If you leave the floor unsanded the boards might be uneven enough that they cause a problem.

I don't have any ideas about clean finishes though..

Thane

>

> I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s. unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related questions.

>

> For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.

>

> Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might contribute much to his health issues.

>

> Limin

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks to all who replied this thread and providing the valuable information both online and offline.I am happy to report back that my son's persistent sinus congestion and excessive mucus for the last 3 months finally cleared away, after increasing liquid Allimed to 10 drops (nebulizing) and 1 capsule of Young Living Inner Defense twice a day for a few days. He however still has eye tic which started a month ago. Last time he developed eye tic, it was two summers ago when he took LDM-100 to treat viruses without his regular support of BH4 and methyl B12 shots, because we were traveling overseas. He has not been receiving B12 injections for about one month, too. Since he started refusing the shots, I have only given him sublingual hydroxy B12. Perhaps sublingual is not as effective as the shots? Has any one had the similar experience?LiminAlso, Debora Lynn Dadd's archives may be researched; she's has been at this for over twenty years and has published several books on nontoxic and natural living -- all subjects, an amazing resource. She is available as a consultant also if you call her; she is easy to reach by internet. Since Debora began, there are several others out there doing more or less the same thing, but Debora was the first. Inspections by certified Baubiologie inspectors are worthwhile; I had one, and it helped a condo EMF situation. Also, since Katrina's complex toxin scenarios and then the more recent Chinese toxic drywall scandal, having a certified inspector prescreen and doublecheck any construction job ongoing and before signoff or final payment can save you much trouble. I would say this info applies to all on this list: we are in a new world where protection from toxins in all areas of life should be the commonsense norm.To: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Sent: Thu, July 1, 2010 2:32:31 PMSubject: Re: Re: OT: Wood flooringsLimin,Hello and thanks for all your contributions. There are nontoxic acrylic-sealed , formaldehyde- free five-layer hardwood veneers out there; there are so many out there that many are really beautiful and cost less than real solid wood. My acupuncturist has bamboo flooring that was carefully researched. Nontoxic cork flooring is also beautiful. Nontoxic beautifully designed linoleums are also available. Unsealed floors will look terrible along family traffic paths in a short time and be nearly impossible to refinish. Be careful during carpet removal and leave the house; the years of toxic dust from removal will go everywhere and pull up nails from the concrete, adding concrete dust. You may want to have this step done by professional certified mold remediators (Florida has at least 5-7 remediation certifications) ; they know how to protect space from such debris and the really best certified will have the right air handlers to keep the air pure during the process. An MCS friend went through this and even the nail holes in the old terazzo had to be covered, and it still did not work and she had to leave. Very complex issues here. The concrete base may have toxic stuff mixed into it and you probably should not be exposed. Florida law specifies that PESTICIDES must be mixed into the home concrete slab! Who knows that except maybe the few people who have found out about the state pesticide registry?? But carpeting is a petri dish of spores and microorganisms and, I believe, does not belong in a home where anyone is ill. Some people afford replacement by doing one room at a time. The Daily Green website I think has archives of past issues featuring such things; there is the search term green nontoxic flooring, if you haven't already checked that out; leads from the NEEDS pharmacy people and the magazine Our Toxic Times maybe; and there is the green building magazine Dwell which advertises these things all the time. Be sure to ask for the technical specs of the material you choose and have a nontoxic green remediator check the ingredients for your safety. Green does not mean nontoxic! There must be how-to-choose nontoxic flooring articles and books on the net by now. Also have your heating/ac ducts tested and protected by the certified remediating contractor you might call in; junk can get in there and start growing from carpet removal or some other source. Good luck, and be sure to check all contractors through Annie's List on the web or at least the state atty. general for consumer fraud and the BBB for past complaints. You can't be too careful when protecting family health. By the way, a news article was mentioned the other day that said some US medical society has now created a name for a mental illness for a person who insists on eating organically or healthily: can anyone verify this?From: thane17 <thane17yahoo (DOT) com>To: BorreliaMultipleInf ectionsAndAutism @yahoogroups. comSent: Tue, June 29, 2010 5:02:47 AMSubject: [borreliaMultipleIn fectionsAndAutis m] Re: OT: Wood floorings Limin,I used to do hardwood install sands and finishes. If you go with an unfinished hardwood install you might want to search around for a company that can do a "dust free" sand for you. If they poly off most of the house and have the powerful vacums hooked up to the sanders its fairly dust free. If you leave the floor unsanded the boards might be uneven enough that they cause a problem. I don't have any ideas about clean finishes though..Thane >> I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s. unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related questions.> > For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.> > Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might contribute much to his health issues.> > Limin>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Jeanette.Kahrs, a Swedish brand, seems to be a good choice of green hardwood floorings. It is nontoxic acrylic-sealed and formaldehyde-free (or very low level of formaldehyde). http://www.greenbuildingsupply.com/utility/showArticle/?objectID=166The products looks nice, too.http://www.kahrs.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Kahrs%20Magazine%202010/KAHRS_Magazine2010_US_web.pdfI have not found retail pricing yet. Hope it is not too expensive to afford. Here is the Brinell Hardness Test chart, in anyone is interested in comparing the hardness of different wood floorings:http://www.greenbuildingsupply.com/documentFiles/134.pdfBamboo floorings are beautiful and relatively non-toxic. But the quality varies among different brands. It will take some amount of time to search into.Any recommendation for a brand of non-toxic glue for flooring installation? LiminLimin,Hello and thanks for all your contributions. There are nontoxic acrylic-sealed , formaldehyde-free five-layer hardwood veneers out there; there are so many out there that many are really beautiful and cost less than real solid wood. My acupuncturist has bamboo flooring that was carefully researched. Nontoxic cork flooring is also beautiful. Nontoxic beautifully designed linoleums are also available. Unsealed floors will look terrible along family traffic paths in a short time and be nearly impossible to refinish. Be careful during carpet removal and leave the house; the years of toxic dust from removal will go everywhere and pull up nails from the concrete, adding concrete dust. You may want to have this step done by professional certified mold remediators (Florida has at least 5-7 remediation certifications); they know how to protect space from such debris and the really best certified will have the right air handlers to keep the air pure during the process. An MCS friend went through this and even the nail holes in the old terazzo had to be covered, and it still did not work and she had to leave. Very complex issues here. The concrete base may have toxic stuff mixed into it and you probably should not be exposed. Florida law specifies that PESTICIDES must be mixed into the home concrete slab! Who knows that except maybe the few people who have found out about the state pesticide registry?? But carpeting is a petri dish of spores and microorganisms and, I believe, does not belong in a home where anyone is ill. Some people afford replacement by doing one room at a time. The Daily Green website I think has archives of past issues featuring such things; there is the search term green nontoxic flooring, if you haven't already checked that out; leads from the NEEDS pharmacy people and the magazine Our Toxic Times maybe; and there is the green building magazine Dwell which advertises these things all the time. Be sure to ask for the technical specs of the material you choose and have a nontoxic green remediator check the ingredients for your safety. Green does not mean nontoxic! There must be how-to-choose nontoxic flooring articles and books on the net by now. Also have your heating/ac ducts tested and protected by the certified remediating contractor you might call in; junk can get in there and start growing from carpet removal or some other source. Good luck, and be sure to check all contractors through Annie's List on the web or at least the state atty. general for consumer fraud and the BBB for past complaints. You can't be too careful when protecting family health. By the way, a news article was mentioned the other day that said some US medical society has now created a name for a mental illness for a person who insists on eating organically or healthily: can anyone verify this?To: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 5:02:47 AMSubject: Re: OT: Wood flooringsLimin,I used to do hardwood install sands and finishes. If you go with an unfinished hardwood install you might want to search around for a company that can do a "dust free" sand for you. If they poly off most of the house and have the powerful vacums hooked up to the sanders its fairly dust free. If you leave the floor unsanded the boards might be uneven enough that they cause a problem. I don't have any ideas about clean finishes though..Thane >> I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s. unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related questions.> > For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.> > Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might contribute much to his health issues.> > Limin>

[Guest guest]

,Do you still remember what brand of the unfiinished wood you've got? No glue is great. Danish Oil is a good non-toxic option for finishing. Can I just apply Danish Oil without sanding the wood? It just seems to be so much work. What the downside is if I do not sand the wood before applying the finishing? Can some one compare Danish Oil and Beeswax? Thanks.LiminI got unfinished wood--tongue in groove, no glue-- and used Danish Oil to finish in my last house--no VOCs. In my experience it is not good to leave it unfinished. I didn't have time to put the danish oil on our new stairs in the old house and within two months it was scuffed up and looked horrible. I had to sand it and finish it with the Danish oil. The danish oil held up fine for the two years we were there. In the old days before the advent of polyurethane that is what people used and it lasted well. There are now sealants that are no VOC that AFM makes, I believe. In our new house we re-did the one floor that had carpet--the kid's play room--in Marmoleum--natural linoleum. Cork is also a good option although beware of anything with pressboard or glued backing as it may outgas formaldehyde and other chemicals even if it doesn't smell bad.I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s. unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related questions.For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might contribute much to his health issues.Limin

[Guest guest]

Kim,

Thanks so much for posting your experience. Sorry to hear that you went through

that disaster. Your warning is much appreciated.

I enjoy going basic! My husband is born and raised in Northern Norway.

Hardwood floors are cozy and homey to him. I am from southern Taiwan where the

weather is quite tropical. I actually suggested marble floors - that's

definitely too cold and really hard to him. :-)

Limin

> Hi Limin,

>

> I, personally, don't think this is Off Topic, I think it's very ON! The indoor

air is a great factor in our health.

>

> I want share with you a home remodeling disaster we had 7 years ago when an

irresponsible professional (recommended by a cooworker) did a lazy quick job.

He was supposed to re-finish old hardwood floors. He sanded it fine, and then,

instead of rolling on the oil-based polyurethane (which is more durable than

water-based) he just pored it on the floor and used a squeegee to push it

around. And instead of waiting for 24 hrs between the coats, he put 3 coats in 1

day in a 90% humidity. What happened was that poly dripped down to the

baseboard through spaces between the boards, hardened on the top, but never

really dried. As a result, we had to stay out of the house for 3 months! It was

impossible to stay inside for all the smell and headaches. 3 months later when

we had to remove all floors throughout the house, there were puddles of liquid

(!) poly under the hardwood. So,I would never do an unfinished floor and then

finish it in the house. One other thing to watch for is the subflooring that is

made of particle boards and may off-gas way more than a pre-finished (which

should be kiln-dried at the factory several times) hardwood.

>

> If we had to move, I would probably do an unfinished floor, at least in the

bedrooms. There won't be (or shouldn't be) much liquids around and and therefore

don't see a reason for mold. Don't care about the looks. We have a small

screened-in porch with a cedar flooring - wide boards, was not very expensive

either. We had it under rain and snow for about 3 years and it didn't get moldy.

Only one spot where we had somehting leaking water on changed the color to

darker. And it's so easy to clean - I just use a mop or a piece of cloth and

give it a wash, and if I feel super-clean I add dishwasher liquied in the water

backet.

>

> One more word of caution - all natural woods have some degree of a smell. I

know for sure oak has a strong smell and it took a few weeks for it to go away.

>

> One diasvantage we experience is that that hardwood floors are cold and

....really hard You would need to put somehting down for the safety of

children playing and for the cold days. This is what my grand-parents had in

their countryside home in Europe - board floors and thick wool rugs. I think we

are going back to the basics.

>

> Good luck with your search and, please, keep us posted.

>

> KIM

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Heidi.

I actually found several brands of prefinished hardwood floors in Lumbar

Liquidators are treated with aluminum oxide for scratch resistance. (Some

bamboo floor brands are also treated with aluminum oxide). If later these

floors installed in a home need to be sanded and restored, it is not difficult

to imagine all that aluminum oxide dust produced during the sanding can be a

proven lung irritant, and a possible carcinogen. Some brands use Polynium, a

polymerized titanium finish. This is less toxic than aluminum oxide, but

still...

Limin

> I looked into this years ago. The laminate floors are the ones with

> aluminum oxide, so I didn't consider those. There are all-natural wood

> sealing finishes, but they are so natural that they can actually harbor

> mold. Linoleum is natural, but there will be some unnatural products

> likely used in the making of it. You can buy linoleum that looks like

> wood. We went with the cork floating floor by www.ifloor.com because no

> glue was needed. But, since it's not a hard floor, and the lower part

> of the floating planks are made of press-board, you can get warping if a

> spill is not cleaned up right away. Wiping them with a damp cloth or

> mop is not enough water to seep down the cracks and warp. You can also

> do the glue-down cork flooring which doesn't have any press-board which

> would eliminate the need for water spilling concerns. I used glue in my

> old house with wood flooring and the glue smell didn't appear to bother

> anyone. We probably used a low smell glue of some sort. They are

> making caulk, glue, and paints with lesser fumes nowadays, and often no

> smell, actually, at least not noticeable. Basically, I have vinyl in my

> kitchen and bathrooms and cork wood flooring in my bedrooms. Vinyl was

> the only choice that my home-builder would do or I would have gotten

> linoleum. When I looked into wood sealants, I was told that they are

> all hazardous while drying, but are thought to not only not out-gas soon

> after drying, but also are considered safe, just as eating off of

> finished tables is safe. You absolutely have to finish wood or it will

> ruin and mold. We do a lot of wood-work here and lacquer is used on

> tables without noticeable problems from reactions. Put us near some

> carpeting, and all kinds of symptoms appear. I tried and tried to see

> what is approved for use on eating surfaces as a wood-finisher, and

> everyone I contacted said that all sealants are safe when they are

> dried. That's all I could find, and so far we just use lacquer.

>

> Love and prayers,

>

> Heidi N

>

>

> For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood

> floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to

> avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they

> will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings

> to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing

> that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and

> leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will

> the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we

> don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished

> wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant

> because of not knowing what to expect down the road.

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thane, thank you. I am leaning towards installing unfinished hardwood floor and

finishing with either beeswax or Danish Oil without sanding it first. Will it

look terrible? I can always sand it later, right? Any downside for doing so?

Limin

> Limin,

>

> I used to do hardwood install sands and finishes. If you go with an unfinished

hardwood install you might want to search around for a company that can do a

" dust free " sand for you. If they poly off most of the house and have the

powerful vacums hooked up to the sanders its fairly dust free. If you leave

the floor unsanded the boards might be uneven enough that they cause a problem.

>

> I don't have any ideas about clean finishes though..

>

> Thane

>

>

>>

>> I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home and

install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s. unfinished

floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among all public

forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions here. I

appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related

questions.

>>

>> For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are

treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide,

even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are

thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can

anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just

install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand

them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become

lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the

fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but

feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.

>>

>> Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have been

having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might

contribute much to his health issues.

>>

>> Limin

>>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to add that wood floors are much more forgiving to joints and little bodies that might trip and fall. We've lived in 5 houses and I far prefer wood floors to tile or marble. It's not as slippery if it's wet and if something glass or ceramic falls to the floor, it won't shatter the way it does on tile and marble. I hate the sound of one of my kids tripping and falling on our current tiled kitchen floor.And don't get me started on grout...You need to sand wood floors to eliminate little snags and splinters and to make the jointure between the boards smooth. Our old house in NY had some floorboards that had floated out of alignment so one was fractionally higher than it's neighbor. I was surprised by how often someone scuffed their shoe or caught their toe on it even before we'd moved in and we having work done. We hired someone to re-finish the floors and sand everything down before we moved in.Good luck with the remodel project!JillSent via BlackBerry by AT&TSender: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 00:09:27 -0700To: <BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism >ReplyTo: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Subject: Re: OT: Wood floorings ,Do you still remember what brand of the unfiinished wood you've got? No glue is great. Danish Oil is a good non-toxic option for finishing. Can I just apply Danish Oil without sanding the wood? It just seems to be so much work. What the downside is if I do not sand the wood before applying the finishing? Can some one compare Danish Oil and Beeswax? Thanks.LiminI got unfinished wood--tongue in groove, no glue-- and used Danish Oil to finish in my last house--no VOCs. In my experience it is not good to leave it unfinished. I didn't have time to put the danish oil on our new stairs in the old house and within two months it was scuffed up and looked horrible. I had to sand it and finish it with the Danish oil. The danish oil held up fine for the two years we were there. In the old days before the advent of polyurethane that is what people used and it lasted well. There are now sealants that are no VOC that AFM makes, I believe. In our new house we re-did the one floor that had carpet--the kid's play room--in Marmoleum--natural linoleum. Cork is also a good option although beware of anything with pressboard or glued backing as it may outgas formaldehyde and other chemicals even if it doesn't smell bad.I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s. unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related questions.For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might contribute much to his health issues.Limin

[Guest guest]

Hi ,I admire your free spirits. If it works, it works. I am sad to admit that I have lost a sense of fluidity in life. I need something solid under my feet. :-)Hope you and Ian are both well!LiminHi Limin,I have not redone my hardwood floors for this very reason. I know there are good options out there...I just don't know what they are. I can tell you that my son Ian's asthma, allergies, sinus stuff, earaches, etc. all dissappeared after I ripped out all the carpeting in our house. In our current flat, I just left the floors as the plywood subfloor and covered with really cheap throw rugs. It looks terrible, but it did the trick for keeping Ian from being sick. So, good luck, it's a very good idea. Hardwood floors seem to help all of the respiratory stuff and I like that they can be kept clean with mild cleaners. -To: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism From: limin@...Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 15:56:32 -0700Subject: OT: Wood flooringsI am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s. unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related questions.For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might contribute much to his health issues.Limin

[Guest guest]

,I had no idea that is unfinished wood floor in Makayla's room. All that floor, her bed and closet, everything in her room looks natural, neat and very relaxing. Every inch is filled with yours and scott's love. My husband is drawn to unfinished wood. The Norwegian is no less a wood manic than the Danish or Swedish. He wants to just leave it the way it is, no sanding and no finishing. I can just imagine that it won't take long before our younger son starts to play tic tac toe game with a permanent marker or do some water-color painting on the attractive wood floor. It seems to me that non-toxic brands of prefinished wood floor such as Kahrs might be a good solution for us.Aluminum oxide is used in the wood finishing to increase scratch resistance. LiminLimin We have one unfinished oak floor which installed about 6 years ago and it is just fine as long as you can guarantee no water. It is Makayla's room and we have considered paste wax and buffer.. did light sand it with very small grit...I think we found one paste made mostly of bee's wax and other plant products but as I can recall you must still be careful with water or you will get a white spot. We do have the buffer here should you decide to go that route....then there are several water base non off gassing seals made from Safecoat brand. We have our front gate sealed with it and everyone complements it....it's not going to last like the poly.....I am thinking if one can get a teak wood at lumbar liquidators for little money...it may be the good one to go unfinished as my dad used to have teak wood on his boat and it was never sealed and did just fine also used for outdoor furniture....so it may discolor but so what?What you must make sure is it is solid hard wood and not wood veneer over some off gassing plywood full of glues.You got me on the prefinished as we put that in our bedroom because of Makaya's MCS. There was no noticeable odor but I am with you and would avoid aluminum....why is it in there anyway????? Hugs I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s. unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related questions.For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might contribute much to his health issues.Limin

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Jill. We used marble floor for one of our bathrooms. A big mistake - my younger one fell a few times there. Also, I later learnt that depending on the regions where the marble comes from, some might have radon. :-( Granite is worse than marble in this regard. Granite is known to contain uranium and other radioacitive materials like thorium. Though it is debatable whether the amount found in floors or countertops is enough to pose a health threat.When we re-did the floor on our biggest bathroom, we used tiles with coarse texture and a bit rustic look. So far everyone is happy with it.LiminJust wanted to add that wood floors are much more forgiving to joints and little bodies that might trip and fall. We've lived in 5 houses and I far prefer wood floors to tile or marble. It's not as slippery if it's wet and if something glass or ceramic falls to the floor, it won't shatter the way it does on tile and marble. I hate the sound of one of my kids tripping and falling on our current tiled kitchen floor.And don't get me started on grout...You need to sand wood floors to eliminate little snags and splinters and to make the jointure between the boards smooth. Our old house in NY had some floorboards that had floated out of alignment so one was fractionally higher than it's neighbor. I was surprised by how often someone scuffed their shoe or caught their toe on it even before we'd moved in and we having work done. We hired someone to re-finish the floors and sand everything down before we moved in.Good luck with the remodel project!JillSent via BlackBerry by AT & TSender: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 00:09:27 -0700To: <BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism >ReplyTo: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Subject: Re: OT: Wood floorings,Do you still remember what brand of the unfiinished wood you've got? No glue is great. Danish Oil is a good non-toxic option for finishing. Can I just apply Danish Oil without sanding the wood? It just seems to be so much work. What the downside is if I do not sand the wood before applying the finishing? Can some one compare Danish Oil and Beeswax? Thanks.LiminI got unfinished wood--tongue in groove, no glue-- and used Danish Oil to finish in my last house--no VOCs. In my experience it is not good to leave it unfinished. I didn't have time to put the danish oil on our new stairs in the old house and within two months it was scuffed up and looked horrible. I had to sand it and finish it with the Danish oil. The danish oil held up fine for the two years we were there. In the old days before the advent of polyurethane that is what people used and it lasted well. There are now sealants that are no VOC that AFM makes, I believe. In our new house we re-did the one floor that had carpet--the kid's play room--in Marmoleum--natural linoleum. Cork is also a good option although beware of anything with pressboard or glued backing as it may outgas formaldehyde and other chemicals even if it doesn't smell bad.I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s. unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related questions.For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might contribute much to his health issues.Limin

[Guest guest]

Limin

 

I would not use a glue. I would use a flooor which is tongue and grove and you nail to itself and no glues involved.

 

Hugs

 

Thanks, Jeanette.

Kahrs, a Swedish brand, seems to be a good choice of green hardwood floorings.  It is nontoxic acrylic-sealed and formaldehyde-free (or very low level of formaldehyde).  

http://www.greenbuildingsupply.com/utility/showArticle/?objectID=166

The products looks nice, too.

http://www.kahrs.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Kahrs%20Magazine%202010/KAHRS_Magazine2010_US_web.pdf

I have not found retail pricing yet.  Hope it is not too expensive to afford.  

Here is the Brinell Hardness Test chart, in anyone is interested in comparing the hardness of different wood floorings:

http://www.greenbuildingsupply.com/documentFiles/134.pdf

Bamboo floorings are beautiful and relatively non-toxic.  But the quality varies among different brands.  It will take some amount of time to search into.

Any recommendation for a brand of non-toxic glue for flooring installation?  

Limin

Limin,

Hello and thanks for all your contributions.             There are nontoxic acrylic-sealed , formaldehyde-free five-layer hardwood veneers out there; there are so many out there that many are really beautiful and cost less than real solid wood.   My acupuncturist has bamboo flooring that was carefully researched.  Nontoxic cork flooring is also beautiful.  Nontoxic beautifully designed linoleums are also available. Unsealed floors will look terrible along family traffic paths in a short time and be nearly impossible to refinish.                          Be careful during carpet removal and leave the house; the years of  toxic dust from removal will go everywhere and pull up nails from the concrete, adding concrete dust.  You may want to have this step done by professional certified mold remediators (Florida has at least 5-7 remediation certifications); they know how to protect space from such debris and the really best certified will have the right air handlers to keep the air pure during the process. An MCS friend went through this and even the nail holes in the old  terazzo had to be covered, and it  still did not work and she had to leave.  Very complex issues here.  The concrete base may have toxic stuff mixed into it and you probably should not be exposed.  Florida law specifies that PESTICIDES must be mixed into the home concrete slab!   Who knows that except maybe the few people who have found out about the state pesticide registry??                  But carpeting is a petri dish of spores and microorganisms and, I believe, does not belong in a home where anyone is ill.  Some people afford replacement by doing one room at a time.                The Daily Green website I think has archives of past issues featuring such things; there is the search term green nontoxic flooring, if you haven't already checked that out; leads from the NEEDS pharmacy people and the magazine Our Toxic Times maybe; and there is the green building magazine Dwell which advertises these things all the time. Be sure to ask for the technical specs of the material you choose and have a nontoxic green remediator check the ingredients for your safety. Green does not mean nontoxic!   There must be how-to-choose nontoxic flooring articles and books on the net by now.      Also have your heating/ac ducts tested and protected by the certified remediating contractor you might call in; junk can get in there and start growing from carpet removal or some other source.    Good luck, and be sure to check all contractors through Annie's List on the web or at least the state atty. general for consumer fraud and the BBB for past complaints.  You can't be too careful when protecting family health.             By the way, a news article was mentioned the other day that said some US medical society has now created a name for a mental illness for a person who insists on eating organically or healthily:  can anyone verify this?

From: thane17 To: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 5:02:47 AMSubject:  Re: OT: Wood floorings

Limin,

I used to do hardwood install sands and finishes. If you go with an unfinished hardwood install you might want to search around for a company that can do a " dust free " sand for you. If they poly off most of the house and have the powerful vacums hooked up to the sanders its fairly dust free. If you leave the floor unsanded the boards might be uneven enough that they cause a problem. 

I don't have any ideas about clean finishes though..Thane 

>> I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s. unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related questions.

> > For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.

> > Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might contribute much to his health issues.> 

> Limin>

[Guest guest]

Oh no, no marble here either!

Reading through this thread, I would second not using a glue but tongue and

grove type with neils that secure boards together. If you opt out for sanding,

make sure that you can cover as much of your belongings as possible. Even using

large film (you can get rolls of it at Walmart inexpensively) to seal kitchen

cabintet, etc. and then, CAREFULY fold it in and take out. This dust if very

fine and gets itsefl everwhere and is really, really hard to get rid of. We

ended up washing walls, ceiling,... everything.

I would also second the suggestion to be very cautious when removing moldy

carpet. If certified remediators are too expensive (which they usually are

and, again, it depends on a company or even a worker how a careful job they'll

do) then make sure whoever you hire does exactly what you tell them. And yes,

keep the family away until the work is done completely and the mess had been

cleaned up.

My mom has a bamboo flooring installed in her flat a couple of years ago. I

believe it was coated with some kind of chemical wax/sealant for protection,

definately not beeswax, and it is showing some 'bald' spots already. It leaves

you wonder how much of that chemicals have been absorbed by our feet as we walk

barefoot, espcecially in the summer. That's my reasoning for a bare wood.

Although, to clarify my earlier post, I would, probably do bare wood in the

bedrooms/playrooms and a prefinished (kiln-dried several times between coatings)

hardwood in the presentable parts of the house to have less hassle to sell it

later if need to.

Much luck to you in this one,

Kim

>

> > Hi Limin,

> >

> > I, personally, don't think this is Off Topic, I think it's very ON! The

indoor air is a great factor in our health.

> >

> > I want share with you a home remodeling disaster we had 7 years ago when an

irresponsible professional (recommended by a cooworker) did a lazy quick job.

He was supposed to re-finish old hardwood floors. He sanded it fine, and then,

instead of rolling on the oil-based polyurethane (which is more durable than

water-based) he just pored it on the floor and used a squeegee to push it

around. And instead of waiting for 24 hrs between the coats, he put 3 coats in 1

day in a 90% humidity. What happened was that poly dripped down to the

baseboard through spaces between the boards, hardened on the top, but never

really dried. As a result, we had to stay out of the house for 3 months! It was

impossible to stay inside for all the smell and headaches. 3 months later when

we had to remove all floors throughout the house, there were puddles of liquid

(!) poly under the hardwood. So,I would never do an unfinished floor and then

finish it in the house. One other thing to watch for is the subflooring that is

made of particle boards and may off-gas way more than a pre-finished (which

should be kiln-dried at the factory several times) hardwood.

> >

> > If we had to move, I would probably do an unfinished floor, at least in the

bedrooms. There won't be (or shouldn't be) much liquids around and and therefore

don't see a reason for mold. Don't care about the looks. We have a small

screened-in porch with a cedar flooring - wide boards, was not very expensive

either. We had it under rain and snow for about 3 years and it didn't get moldy.

Only one spot where we had somehting leaking water on changed the color to

darker. And it's so easy to clean - I just use a mop or a piece of cloth and

give it a wash, and if I feel super-clean I add dishwasher liquied in the water

backet.

> >

> > One more word of caution - all natural woods have some degree of a smell. I

know for sure oak has a strong smell and it took a few weeks for it to go away.

> >

> > One diasvantage we experience is that that hardwood floors are cold and

....really hard You would need to put somehting down for the safety of

children playing and for the cold days. This is what my grand-parents had in

their countryside home in Europe - board floors and thick wool rugs. I think we

are going back to the basics.

> >

> > Good luck with your search and, please, keep us posted.

> >

> > KIM

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

There used to be a nontoxic building supply company twenty years ago called AFM. Someone in CA stated he did not like their products, but they may have changed. I will ask around.To: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 2:46:38 AMSubject: Re:

Re: OT: Wood floorings

Thanks, Jeanette.Kahrs, a Swedish brand, seems to be a good choice of green hardwood floorings. It is nontoxic acrylic-sealed and formaldehyde- free (or very low level of formaldehyde) . http://www.greenbui ldingsupply. com/utility/ showArticle/ ?objectID= 166The products looks nice, too.http://www.kahrs. com/SiteCollecti onDocuments/ Kahrs%20Magazine %202010/KAHRS_ Magazine2010_ US_web.pdfI have not found retail pricing yet. Hope it is not too expensive to afford. Here is the Brinell Hardness Test chart, in anyone is interested in comparing the

hardness of different wood floorings:http://www.greenbui ldingsupply. com/documentFile s/134.pdfBamboo floorings are beautiful and relatively non-toxic. But the quality varies among different brands. It will take some amount of time to search into.Any recommendation for a brand of non-toxic glue for flooring installation? LiminLimin,Hello and thanks for all your contributions. There are nontoxic acrylic-sealed , formaldehyde- free five-layer hardwood veneers out there;

there are so many out there that many are really beautiful and cost less than real solid wood. My acupuncturist has bamboo flooring that was carefully researched. Nontoxic cork flooring is also beautiful. Nontoxic beautifully designed linoleums are also available. Unsealed floors will look terrible along family traffic paths in a short time and be nearly impossible to refinish. Be careful during carpet removal and leave the house; the years of toxic dust from removal will go everywhere and pull up nails from the concrete, adding concrete dust. You may want to have this step done by professional certified mold remediators (Florida has at least 5-7 remediation certifications) ; they know how to protect space from such debris and the really best certified will have the right air handlers to keep the air pure during the process. An MCS

friend went through this and even the nail holes in the old terazzo had to be covered, and it still did not work and she had to leave. Very complex issues here. The concrete base may have toxic stuff mixed into it and you probably should not be exposed. Florida law specifies that PESTICIDES must be mixed into the home concrete slab! Who knows that except maybe the few people who have found out about the state pesticide registry?? But carpeting is a petri dish of spores and microorganisms and, I believe, does not belong in a home where anyone is ill. Some people afford replacement by doing one room at a time. The Daily Green website I think has archives of past issues featuring such things; there is the search term green nontoxic flooring, if you haven't already checked that out; leads from the

NEEDS pharmacy people and the magazine Our Toxic Times maybe; and there is the green building magazine Dwell which advertises these things all the time. Be sure to ask for the technical specs of the material you choose and have a nontoxic green remediator check the ingredients for your safety. Green does not mean nontoxic! There must be how-to-choose nontoxic flooring articles and books on the net by now. Also have your heating/ac ducts tested and protected by the certified remediating contractor you might call in; junk can get in there and start growing from carpet removal or some other source. Good luck, and be sure to check all contractors through Annie's List on the web or at least the state atty. general for consumer fraud and the BBB for past complaints. You can't be too careful when protecting family health. By the way, a news article was mentioned the other

day that said some US medical society has now created a name for a mental illness for a person who insists on eating organically or healthily: can anyone verify this?From: thane17 <thane17yahoo (DOT) com>To: BorreliaMultipleInf

ectionsAndAutism @yahoogroups. comSent: Tue, June 29, 2010 5:02:47 AMSubject: [borreliaMultipleIn fectionsAndAutis m] Re: OT: Wood flooringsLimin,I used to do hardwood install sands and finishes. If you go with an unfinished hardwood install you might want to search around for a company that can do a "dust free" sand for you. If they poly off most of the house and have the powerful vacums hooked up to the sanders its fairly dust free. If you leave the floor unsanded the boards might be uneven enough that they cause a problem. I don't have any ideas about clean finishes though..Thane >> I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s. unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related questions.> > For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales

persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.> > Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might contribute much to his health issues.> >

Limin>

[Guest guest]

Limin, Each board used in hardwood flooring isn't milled to be exactly the same

thickness because they generally end up being sanded anyway. So some boards

will be higher and some lower which wont look very good but worse might leave

some sharp edges that can catch a toe, or give slivers. But that might be a

small price to pay for a good clean floor. Some mills produce more even boards

than others so its something you could ask your contractor. Also, I mostly

installed maple, pine, walnut and brazillian cherry, so its possible if you went

with something like a bamboo the seams would be more level.

Make sure also the subfloor is as level as possible and all the joints between

the plywood are sanded smooth as this will allow the hardwood that goes down on

top of it to lay more flat and even. In later model homes this isn't usually

such a problem, but in older homes that have settled the subfloor can be a

nightmare.

Another thought is if you do go with an unsanded floor a wider board might look

nicer and also leave less uneven edges.

Generally before a finish is applied the floor needs to be buffed to open up the

grain in the wood, which does cause some dust. If the floor isn't sanded first

before buffing the rough edges will tear up the sand paper/screen on the buffer

making it difficult, if not impossible to buff. And if it can be buffed some of

the low spots wont get hit with the buffer and will likely need to be buffed by

hand in order to get the finish to take evenly. But maybe Danish Oil and

Beeswax can be applied without first buffing the floor.

Yes, you can always sand it later! I've never sanded a Danish Oil or Beeswax

finished floor but generally waxes and oils on hardwood clog up the sanding

belts, so it might be more expensive to do.

These are just my thoughts though... I have't tried this myself. Good luck!

Thane

> >>

> >> I am searching to purchase materials needed to rid of our carpets at home

and install hard wood floorings. I have a question on prefinished v.s.

unfinished floorings. I know that this is quite off the topic here. But among

all public forums, I trust this group the most. Please allow my OT questions

here. I appreciate if you can direct me to an appropriate forum for the related

questions.

> >>

> >> For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood floorings

are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to avoid aluminum oxide,

even though the sales persons told us that they will not out-gas. If we are

thinking of using unfinished wood floorings to avoid toxic treatments, can

anyone suggest a treatment or finishing that is non-toxic? Or, can we just

install unfinished wood floorings and leave them that way? Do we need to sand

them after installation? Will the floorings be worn out easily and become

lacking of durability, if we don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the

fact that unfinished wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but

feel hesitant because of not knowing what to expect down the road.

> >>

> >> Thanks much in advance for any information you can provide. My son have

been having sinus congestion for the past 3 months. The carpets at home might

contribute much to his health issues.

> >>

> >> Limin

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Bamboo floors are elegant, but too many downsides to watch out for.

http://www.woodfloordoctor.com/_product_reviews/articles/the_truth_about_bamboo_\

flooring.shtml

Limin

> Thanks, Heidi.

>

> I actually found several brands of prefinished hardwood floors in Lumbar

Liquidators are treated with aluminum oxide for scratch resistance. (Some

bamboo floor brands are also treated with aluminum oxide). If later these

floors installed in a home need to be sanded and restored, it is not difficult

to imagine all that aluminum oxide dust produced during the sanding can be a

proven lung irritant, and a possible carcinogen. Some brands use Polynium, a

polymerized titanium finish. This is less toxic than aluminum oxide, but

still...

>

> Limin

>

>

>

>

>> I looked into this years ago. The laminate floors are the ones with

>> aluminum oxide, so I didn't consider those. There are all-natural wood

>> sealing finishes, but they are so natural that they can actually harbor

>> mold. Linoleum is natural, but there will be some unnatural products

>> likely used in the making of it. You can buy linoleum that looks like

>> wood. We went with the cork floating floor by www.ifloor.com because no

>> glue was needed. But, since it's not a hard floor, and the lower part

>> of the floating planks are made of press-board, you can get warping if a

>> spill is not cleaned up right away. Wiping them with a damp cloth or

>> mop is not enough water to seep down the cracks and warp. You can also

>> do the glue-down cork flooring which doesn't have any press-board which

>> would eliminate the need for water spilling concerns. I used glue in my

>> old house with wood flooring and the glue smell didn't appear to bother

>> anyone. We probably used a low smell glue of some sort. They are

>> making caulk, glue, and paints with lesser fumes nowadays, and often no

>> smell, actually, at least not noticeable. Basically, I have vinyl in my

>> kitchen and bathrooms and cork wood flooring in my bedrooms. Vinyl was

>> the only choice that my home-builder would do or I would have gotten

>> linoleum. When I looked into wood sealants, I was told that they are

>> all hazardous while drying, but are thought to not only not out-gas soon

>> after drying, but also are considered safe, just as eating off of

>> finished tables is safe. You absolutely have to finish wood or it will

>> ruin and mold. We do a lot of wood-work here and lacquer is used on

>> tables without noticeable problems from reactions. Put us near some

>> carpeting, and all kinds of symptoms appear. I tried and tried to see

>> what is approved for use on eating surfaces as a wood-finisher, and

>> everyone I contacted said that all sealants are safe when they are

>> dried. That's all I could find, and so far we just use lacquer.

>>

>> Love and prayers,

>>

>> Heidi N

>>

>>

>> For the brands I have looked into so far, all prefinished wood

>> floorings are treated with aluminum oxide. I would really prefer to

>> avoid aluminum oxide, even though the sales persons told us that they

>> will not out-gas. If we are thinking of using unfinished wood floorings

>> to avoid toxic treatments, can anyone suggest a treatment or finishing

>> that is non-toxic? Or, can we just install unfinished wood floorings and

>> leave them that way? Do we need to sand them after installation? Will

>> the floorings be worn out easily and become lacking of durability, if we

>> don't use any stain or sealer costing? We like the fact that unfinished

>> wood floorings to a great extent are free of toxins, but feel hesitant

>> because of not knowing what to expect down the road.

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------------

>>

>>