Re: Exercise and avoidance

[Guest guest]

>

> That's an interesting reply. I thought endorphins were supposed to be

> released by exercise that would lead to mood bump.

Bruce,

If you have time to answer, I am curious about something -

ACT explicitly says it is not about " mood bump " or the search to

" feel better " etc. But pretty much all your questions & comments

to the list continue to be directed toward these goals.

I am not judging (I hope) even though I may sound like it. Lord knows

there are many days, including this one, that I would like to feel better.

Woke with a head that feels like a potato sack stuffed with dirt, many

doubts, etc.

I am just wondering, though. I have a feeling that I had better not post

any replies to your questions any more, because I always end up saying

the same things - ACT says this and that, blah blah blah - and it does

not seem to be what you are after.

So ... what I am curious about is, why ACT, when ACT does not seem

at all in line with what you are seeking? Is there some other component

of ACT that does appeal to you that I am not getting?

Thanks & sorry if this comes off strange - I really would like to know.

- Randy

[Guest guest]

Hi Randy:Thank you very much for your message. I don't think what you wrote is strange and I appreciate your taking the time to write. This list of caring people is one of the reasons that I stick with ACT and I appreciate everyone who contributes. It helps me a lot. I certainly appreciate what you write and even if you feel like you're saying the same thing, I probably need to hear again. The fact that you want to help means a lot. You're also a very good writer.I understand that ACT does not promise to make us feel better. I guess I hope it does offer the hope of long-term relief from debilitating anxiety and depression, to be able to live life without every aspect being a continual effort. I'm not hoping for a life free of anxiety or depression. I'd just like to be free of unrelenting anxiety and chronic depression. I'd like to be able to say that I'm recovered. I'd like to enjoy parts of my life. I'd like to have a genuine laugh. I'd like to get up in the morning and not think of how many hours remain in the day until I can get back in bed.In my head, ACT makes a lot of sense to me. Right now, I'm working hard on acceptance. I've currently reading Neff's book on self-compassion and I think that ties in well with what ACT is saying. My thoughts are not as bad as my feelings. I can be thinking very positive thoughts and still feeling a sunken feeling in my gut. One thing that sold me on ACT was that Russ ' Mindfulness of Emotions audio exercise actually dissolved a knot in the stomach for me early in my ACT experience. That convinced me of the power in the ACT model. Additionally, this list is great and the opportunity to interact with , Russ, and others is something that other methods don't offer, as far as I know. I have gotten a lot of knowledge and helpful ideas. The ACT books I've read have described people with problems like mine and the fact that they have found healing and improved lives gives me hope and inspiration. I have come to understand that life contains both pain and joy and that ACT model helps me to think I can learn to live with that.I think where ACT is in line with what I'm seeking is I'm looking for some way to be comfortable in the world. To always be anxious, uneasy or depressed can't be the only way to live. The fact that ACT is targeted at people who I feel are like me is what keeps me coming back. If they can be helped, maybe I can, too. And I have been helped, I'm just not nearly where I want to be. I'm very aware of several areas where I'm hooked. I just don't seem to be able to unhook. I can tell myself I accept but I just stay stuck. I hear from others that they've learned to accept where they are. I don't understand why I can't do that, too. I have tried just about every control strategy Russ mentions in the Happiness Trap and probably more. I agree they haven't worked. I saw an ACT therapist for over a year and he was very satisfied when I admitted that things might never get better and that I would live with that. It is true that things may never get better and I will go on living. But it seems that ACT promises more than just living in emotional pain.Things have been going well for me today and I'm still stuck in anxiety. I don't understand why the successful completion of a work project doesn't bring a feeling of satisfaction, just like I don't understand why outdoor exercise doesn't boost my mood. These things work for other people. They used to work for me. I went from just a kind of anxious person to disordered in one day, due to a situation that has long since successfully resolved itself. Since I went down the hole in one day, I can't help thinking that there is an answer that will lift me back up. I know I'm not entirely getting ACT, that there's some element I'm missing. I feel like if I could just find it, I'd be recovered. And I'd like to be recovered and living my life.Thanks again for listening and for writing.Best regards,Bruce>> That's an interesting reply. I thought endorphins were supposed to be > released by exercise that would lead to mood bump.Bruce, If you have time to answer, I am curious about something - ACT explicitly says it is not about "mood bump" or the search to "feel better" etc. But pretty much all your questions & commentsto the list continue to be directed toward these goals.I am not judging (I hope) even though I may sound like it. Lord knowsthere are many days, including this one, that I would like to feel better.Woke with a head that feels like a potato sack stuffed with dirt, manydoubts, etc. I am just wondering, though. I have a feeling that I had better not postany replies to your questions any more, because I always end up saying the same things - ACT says this and that, blah blah blah - and it does not seem to be what you are after. So ... what I am curious about is, why ACT, when ACT does not seemat all in line with what you are seeking? Is there some other componentof ACT that does appeal to you that I am not getting?Thanks & sorry if this comes off strange - I really would like to know.- Randy

[Guest guest]

Hi BruceI have asked these sorts of questions of myself an awful lot over the last 12 months. I have never accepted my difficulties, and those of my son, despite being dedicated to the exercises in The Happiness Trap, and despite the wise and caring counsel I have received on this forum.It is my strong belief that acceptance cannot be achieved directly. I honestly believe acceptance, and with it relief from the most punishing aspects of

depression and anxiety, will only come indirectly (indeed, perhaps rather absent-mindedly) by slavishly and obsessively pursuing your values.In this way, you can prove to yourself that your depression and anxiety is actually rather unimportant. Sure, it's feels terrible, but it cannot stop you doing what you want to do. "To always be anxious, uneasy or depressed can't be the only way to live". What if it was? What would it physically stop you from achieving with your life? How do you want to judge your success in life: by how you feel, or by what you do?With every best wish in the world, xTo: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Thursday, 8 September 2011, 22:32Subject: Re: Re: Exercise and avoidance

Hi Randy:Thank you very much for your message. I don't think what you wrote is strange and I appreciate your taking the time to write. This list of caring people is one of the reasons that I stick with ACT and I appreciate everyone who contributes. It helps me a lot. I certainly appreciate what you write and even if you feel like you're saying the same thing, I probably need to hear again. The fact that you want to help means a lot. You're also a very good writer.I understand that ACT does not promise to make us feel better. I guess I hope it does offer the hope of long-term relief from debilitating anxiety and depression, to be able to live life without every aspect being a continual effort. I'm not hoping for a life free of anxiety or depression. I'd just like to be free of unrelenting anxiety and chronic depression. I'd like to be able to say that I'm recovered. I'd like to enjoy parts of my life. I'd like

to have a genuine laugh. I'd like to get up in the morning and not think of how many hours remain in the day until I can get back in bed.In my head, ACT makes a lot of sense to me. Right now, I'm working hard on acceptance. I've currently reading Neff's book on self-compassion and I think that ties in well with what ACT is saying. My thoughts are not as bad as my feelings. I can be thinking very positive thoughts and still feeling a sunken feeling in my gut. One thing that sold me on ACT was that Russ ' Mindfulness of Emotions audio exercise actually dissolved a knot in the stomach for me early in my ACT experience. That convinced me of the power in the ACT model. Additionally, this list is great and the opportunity to interact with , Russ, and others is something that other methods don't offer, as far as I know. I have gotten a lot of knowledge and helpful ideas. The ACT books I've read have described

people with problems like mine and the fact that they have found healing and improved lives gives me hope and inspiration. I have come to understand that life contains both pain and joy and that ACT model helps me to think I can learn to live with that.I think where ACT is in line with what I'm seeking is I'm looking for some way to be comfortable in the world. To always be anxious, uneasy or depressed can't be the only way to live. The fact that ACT is targeted at people who I feel are like me is what keeps me coming back. If they can be helped, maybe I can, too. And I have been helped, I'm just not nearly where I want to be. I'm very aware of several areas where I'm hooked. I just don't seem to be able to unhook. I can tell myself I accept but I just stay stuck. I hear from others that they've learned to accept where they are. I don't understand why I can't do that, too. I have tried just about every control strategy Russ

mentions in the Happiness Trap and probably more. I agree they haven't worked. I saw an ACT therapist for over a year and he was very satisfied when I admitted that things might never get better and that I would live with that. It is true that things may never get better and I will go on living. But it seems that ACT promises more than just living in emotional pain.Things have been going well for me today and I'm still stuck in anxiety. I don't understand why the successful completion of a work project doesn't bring a feeling of satisfaction, just like I don't understand why outdoor exercise doesn't boost my mood. These things work for other people. They used to work for me. I went from just a kind of anxious person to disordered in one day, due to a situation that has long since successfully resolved itself. Since I went down the hole in one day, I can't help thinking that there is an answer that will lift me back up. I know

I'm not entirely getting ACT, that there's some element I'm missing. I feel like if I could just find it, I'd be recovered. And I'd like to be recovered and living my life.Thanks again for listening and for writing.Best regards,Bruce>> That's an interesting reply. I thought endorphins were supposed to be > released by exercise that would lead to mood bump.Bruce, If you have time to answer, I am curious about something - ACT explicitly says it is not about "mood bump" or the search to "feel better" etc. But pretty much all your questions & commentsto the list continue to be directed toward these goals.I am not judging (I hope) even though I may sound like it. Lord knowsthere are many days, including this one, that I would like to feel better.Woke with a head that feels like a potato sack

stuffed with dirt, manydoubts, etc. I am just wondering, though. I have a feeling that I had better not postany replies to your questions any more, because I always end up saying the same things - ACT says this and that, blah blah blah - and it does not seem to be what you are after. So ... what I am curious about is, why ACT, when ACT does not seemat all in line with what you are seeking? Is there some other componentof ACT that does appeal to you that I am not getting?Thanks & sorry if this comes off strange - I really would like to know.- Randy

[Guest guest]

I think we will always resist when we believe anxiety/fear/depression says

something negative about us...as is something is inherently wrong with us...who

wouldn't want to fix that if you believed it?

The experience of anxiety and fear are a symptom not the cause, and as you know

by now, resisting a healthy biological response is quite futile...at some point,

you might give up and surrender, and just let it be...starting with moments, and

increasing forward...

I personally try to treat it as an anxious child, and be the love and security

that was lacking when it formed.

Here are some reasons why anxiety says something positive about me

1) Means that my body is correctly responding to a perceived threat

2) Means that I care about my existence

3) Means that I am human and vulnerable like all other humans

4) It has taught me so much about myself, that I am courageous, strong, able to

endure suffering

5) It has taught me compassion, empathy, and learning to love

So maybe the energy of fear isn't a negative emotion at all...on it's root level

it is here to help us, is it not?

Whether or not any of us can ever find the root cause of one's anxiety and be

able to heal it....I think if you can start changing your perspective about

anxiety itself, acceptance will come of it's own volition..

And of course, easier said than done! =]

> > >

> > > That's an interesting reply. I thought endorphins were supposed to

> > be

> > > released by exercise that would lead to mood bump.

> >

> > Bruce,

> >

> > If you have time to answer, I am curious about something -

> >

> > ACT explicitly says it is not about " mood bump " or the search to

> > " feel better " etc. But pretty much all your questions & comments

> > to the list continue to be directed toward these goals.

> >

> > I am not judging (I hope) even though I may sound like it. Lord knows

> > there are many days, including this one, that I would like to feel

> > better.

> > Woke with a head that feels like a potato sack stuffed with dirt, many

> > doubts, etc.

> >

> > I am just wondering, though. I have a feeling that I had better not

> > post

> > any replies to your questions any more, because I always end up saying

> > the same things - ACT says this and that, blah blah blah - and it does

> > not seem to be what you are after.

> >

> > So ... what I am curious about is, why ACT, when ACT does not seem

> > at all in line with what you are seeking? Is there some other

> > component

> > of ACT that does appeal to you that I am not getting?

> >

> > Thanks & sorry if this comes off strange - I really would like to

> > know.

> >

> > - Randy

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Bruce,What you've written here could very well apply to me, too, and probably more than a few readers of this list."Getting" ACT isn't for the faint-hearted, or so I'm learning. And perhaps that's a mistaken way of looking at it, because I don't think it's about "getting" anything; as the acronym implies, it's about doing, and it is this doing that some of us find so difficult. And even "doing" doesn't seem to quite fit, because it seems that this "doing" often consists of not doing what we habitually do.Anxious? Nervous? Unhappy? Sad? What are our usual responses to these states and their accompanying thoughts? I know what mine are, and while they might afford some short-term relief, they're pretty useless for the long term. Clearly, there has to be another way. And that way is what's so difficult for me: it means becoming aware of everything that is feeding my anxiety, nervousness, sadness, without "doing" anything about it - just being aware and seeing what happens. At least, that's what I think I need to learn to do. And this thought alone scares me!Something said in a recent post has been reverberating around in my head:Because learning to be with yourself is the foundation of it all.Regards,Detlef > > >> > > That's an interesting reply. I thought endorphins were supposed to > > be> > > released by exercise that would lead to mood bump.> >> > Bruce,> >> > If you have time to answer, I am curious about something -> >> > ACT explicitly says it is not about "mood bump" or the search to> > "feel better" etc. But pretty much all your questions & comments> > to the list continue to be directed toward these goals.> >> > I am not judging (I hope) even though I may sound like it. Lord knows> > there are many days, including this one, that I would like to feel > > better.> > Woke with a head that feels like a potato sack stuffed with dirt, many> > doubts, etc.> >> > I am just wondering, though. I have a feeling that I had better not > > post> > any replies to your questions any more, because I always end up saying> > the same things - ACT says this and that, blah blah blah - and it does> > not seem to be what you are after.> >> > So ... what I am curious about is, why ACT, when ACT does not seem> > at all in line with what you are seeking? Is there some other > > component> > of ACT that does appeal to you that I am not getting?> >> > Thanks & sorry if this comes off strange - I really would like to > > know.> >> > - Randy> >> >> >>

[Guest guest]

McCurry, in his book Parenting Your Anxious Child, writes about willingness versus wantingness. In his example, the child doesn't need to want to go to school with a stomachache; but she needs to be willing to go to school with a stomachache. ""Wantingness reduces every option down to "I must get rid of this _________ ..." Willingness opens up the possibilities for what we can choose to do next."I'll write to Dr McCurry and ask him to post a bit more about wantingness and willingness.BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: michieux@...Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 13:56:23 +0000Subject: Re: Exercise and avoidance

Hello Bruce,What you've written here could very well apply to me, too, and probably more than a few readers of this list."Getting" ACT isn't for the faint-hearted, or so I'm learning. And perhaps that's a mistaken way of looking at it, because I don't think it's about "getting" anything; as the acronym implies, it's about doing, and it is this doing that some of us find so difficult. And even "doing" doesn't seem to quite fit, because it seems that this "doing" often consists of not doing what we habitually do.Anxious? Nervous? Unhappy? Sad? What are our usual responses to these states and their accompanying thoughts? I know what mine are, and while they might afford some short-term relief, they're pretty useless for the long term. Clearly, there has to be another way. And that way is what's so difficult for me: it means becoming aware of everything that is feeding my anxiety, nervousness, sadness, without "doing" anything about it - just being aware and seeing what happens. At least, that's what I think I need to learn to do. And this thought alone scares me!Something said in a recent post has been reverberating around in my head:Because learning to be with yourself is the foundation of it all.Regards,Detlef > > >> > > That's an interesting reply. I thought endorphins were supposed to > > be> > > released by exercise that would lead to mood bump.> >> > Bruce,> >> > If you have time to answer, I am curious about something -> >> > ACT explicitly says it is not about "mood bump" or the search to> > "feel better" etc. But pretty much all your questions & comments> > to the list continue to be directed toward these goals.> >> > I am not judging (I hope) even though I may sound like it. Lord knows> > there are many days, including this one, that I would like to feel > > better.> > Woke with a head that feels like a potato sack stuffed with dirt, many> > doubts, etc.> >> > I am just wondering, though. I have a feeling that I had better not > > post> > any replies to your questions any more, because I always end up saying> > the same things - ACT says this and that, blah blah blah - and it does> > not seem to be what you are after.> >> > So ... what I am curious about is, why ACT, when ACT does not seem> > at all in line with what you are seeking? Is there some other > > component> > of ACT that does appeal to you that I am not getting?> >> > Thanks & sorry if this comes off strange - I really would like to > > know.> >> > - Randy> >> >> >>

[Guest guest]

maybe one can start a practice of saying " yes " to your experience...regardless

wanting every moment to be there...not because it feels good in all moments, but

because it's what's there...thinking it " shouldn't " be there is

denying/resisting the moment, and it will persist...if it's there, it means you

couldn't control or prevent it from being there

that's where labeling is helpful to me

" there is a feeling of anxiousness "

" there is a state of fear "

" there is a thought that says ..... "

it detaches it and makes it impersonal...which much of the problem is us making

them personal, and very personal

> > > >

> > > > That's an interesting reply. I thought endorphins were supposed to

> > > be

> > > > released by exercise that would lead to mood bump.

> > >

> > > Bruce,

> > >

> > > If you have time to answer, I am curious about something -

> > >

> > > ACT explicitly says it is not about " mood bump " or the search to

> > > " feel better " etc. But pretty much all your questions & comments

> > > to the list continue to be directed toward these goals.

> > >

> > > I am not judging (I hope) even though I may sound like it. Lord knows

> > > there are many days, including this one, that I would like to feel

> > > better.

> > > Woke with a head that feels like a potato sack stuffed with dirt, many

> > > doubts, etc.

> > >

> > > I am just wondering, though. I have a feeling that I had better not

> > > post

> > > any replies to your questions any more, because I always end up saying

> > > the same things - ACT says this and that, blah blah blah - and it does

> > > not seem to be what you are after.

> > >

> > > So ... what I am curious about is, why ACT, when ACT does not seem

> > > at all in line with what you are seeking? Is there some other

> > > component

> > > of ACT that does appeal to you that I am not getting?

> > >

> > > Thanks & sorry if this comes off strange - I really would like to

> > > know.

> > >

> > > - Randy

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>