Re: Re: Special Needs Dental Day

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/7/02 12:13:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,

gracekeh@... writes:

<< Kandie - and they are able to just hold him down for that initial shot? >>

Well, er, uh, NO.

We do a thing where he is totally surprised and gets the shot w/out seeing

it. (I'm not too proud about this part of it actually!)

kandie

Kandie and (9 years)

* 's website: <A

HREF= " http://kidsactivities.homestead.com/spage.html " >spage</A>

*

[Guest guest]

I think he should charge enough to cover all his

expenses at least. I know most dentists here do not

accept MA-medical assistance. I don't know if he

normally does, but it would be nice if he doesn't to

make an exception for special needs patients. The

parents have enough expenses to cover without dental

work added, if they have MA. Just a thought.

I also would want to be present if I ever get up

enough nerve to take Ebony to the dentist and I would

want her sedated/put under rather than restrained. I

think that would completely stress her out. Not to

mention that I have no idea how the dentist would get

into her mouth without injuring her or him/her self.

You have a good man, Grace. Tell him I said so. And

if we ever do move to California......he'd be our

dentist. Of course, that will never happen, but

theoretically. LOL

Tamara

--- Grace Keh wrote:

>

> > Where do I sign up? Greggory and Alec need to see

> the dentist!

> > Jacquie H

>

>

> Jacquie, I know they do! ;o)

>

> But we haven't worked out the details.

> And there are lots of details to go through.

>

> For instance..... what does a parent look for in a

> special needs dentist?

> Understanding? Compassion? That much Shaun has,

> especially where special

> needs children are concerned. Especially moreso if

> they aren't going home

> with him.

> That said -- I need to know what would make you

> guys choose to come to this

> particular dentist over another?

>

> For example - there are various ways to approach

> this.

>

> ----Restraints: For some children, restraints will

> probably have to be

> used. Taking your kids for example, Jacquie - - -

> Greggory understands

> words. He might be open to being coerced, bribed,

> or negotiation. He might

> even allow it if things are explained to him so he

> can understand. These

> things MIGHT happen, or they may not, but it is

> possible. With Alec... or

> even better, Sydney and Madison <totally nonverbal>

> - - this is not even

> remotely possible. They do not UNDERSTAND

> compromises, bribery, or what

> have you. The experience in itself does not have to

> be terrible. But - -

> somehow, someway, the child needs to be accepting to

> the procedure or at

> least the checkup. Now, would you rather the

> restraints (either physical or

> via human beings holding onto the child) be used so

> that checkups and

> procedures are completed, or would you rather go

> home without accomplishing

> anything but having met a nice dentist who doesn't

> use restraints? Or,

> would you rather this dentist use restraints, or his

> employees to help hold

> the child down long enough to give him nitrous oxide

> <with a mask> to calm

> him down, release the restraints, and do as many

> procedures as you can

> within the time this child is giddy? Or..... would

> you rather the

> restraints be used long enough to give the child

> general anesthesia - - and

> get all the procedures done during one visit? Keep

> in mind that this " free

> dental work " day is not a weekly thing. At best, he

> is thinking quarterly,

> for one day only.

>

> -----Cost: This is where Shaun and I disagree. He

> wants to make the whole

> day at his cost. He hopes that he can get a

> pedodontist in there for that

> one day, for free, to administer general anesthesia

> if need be, and to work

> on the specialty pedo cases - - again, for free. I

> say there is no need to

> spend all that money on treating special needs

> children for completely free.

> Most places charge for an office visit. If the

> child just needs a

> cleaning - fine. But if the child needs intensive

> work - - there is no

> reason Shaun should have to cover the cost of that,

> even on this one day. I

> suggested he charge enough to cover his cost, even

> if he doesn't make a

> dime. He still thinks " free " is better. Now, to

> the patient, I know it's

> better. But do we really want people bringing in

> their special needs kids

> JUST because it's free? BTW - he means FREE just

> for the special needs

> child, not the whole family. Thoughts on this? If

> it weren't free... if it

> was only half-off sale, or a " special needs day " - -

> would you not come on

> account of it? On the flipside, would you come just

> BECAUSE it was free?

>

> -----Publicity: As is the case with all things,

> this is not just from the

> goodness of his heart. No, correction. Once I got

> involved, it wasn't just

> from the goodness of his heart. Publicity is an

> important marketing

> feature, and one that I deem as important as good

> dental work. I think this

> is a sensitive enough issue that i could get

> newspapers to cover it, and

> perhaps even some media coverage. It could start a

> good thing going for our

> kids. Shaun is a part of several good medical and

> dental associations in

> the area, and some sponsor things of this nature.

> That could happen at a

> later date, and it may benefit many children in the

> area. They already do

> it for the geriatric folks who can't afford medical

> and dental work. My

> question is: If you were to attend a day such as

> this one with your

> children, and if you should find that the dentists

> at that practice did

> better than excellent work, were as understanding as

> you would hope for your

> children, and did free dental work on your children

> but would charge you as

> they do everyone else should you come to them as

> patients - - - -would YOU

> go back to that dentist when you need work done, or

> would you go back to

> your own dentist for your own teeth and only go to

> this new dentist for your

> child's " free " dental visit days? And, if you would

> go back to that new

> dentist - - - how far of a distance would you

> travel to go back? 10 miles?

> 40 miles?

>

> I don't know the answer to these questions because I

> never had to think

> about how much or little I would have to do,

> dental-wise, for my kids, as

> their father IS their dentist. I really don't know

> how much the " average "

> person would do to find a good dentist? I know

> Shaun's work to be at least

> excellent. I know he would BE PATIENCE ITSELF when

> involved with these

> children. I know he would not be in the least

> irritated should it take 5

> visits to get one cleaning done. But - - while I

> do think the idea is

> wonderful - - I don't want to incur a huge loss on

> account of a good deed.

> This is not because I don't think it's worth

> spending the money, but moreso

> that we are HARDLY at the financial point where we

> can afford to be

> philanthropic. Just as Jacquie was mentioning

> " working poor " in Canada - -

> it's pretty much the same here. In the Bay Area,

> our income is at best,

> average. I would LOVE for my husband to help out

> these kids who need work,

> but can't find a decent dentist to go to. We just

> can't afford to pay for

> it all out of our pockets.

> I also mentioned to him tonight about whether or not

> he would allow parents

> to be in the same room when the procedures are being

> done. Initially, he

> said the same thing - - - " normally, parents are not

> supposed to be in the

> room. " I reminded him that nothing about this was

> " normal " and told him

> about Penny's experience with dentists. He thought

> about it for a second,

> and then said there is no reason why they cannot be

> in the room, but that

> they would see nothing pleasant going on. He added

> that he doesn't care

> whether they are there or not - - - he just doesn't

> see why they would WANT

> to be, LOL.

> I explained further, he gets it, and has no problem

> with that.

>

> So???? Ideas?

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Raena, I FW'd your e-mail to Shaun.

I think it should give him a good idea on what to expect, and how it's done

elsewhere. As far as we know, nobody in this area does this, so we are

really working from scratch here.

Shaun is able to give nitrous oxide, and a pedodontist <pediatric dentist>

would be able to give general anesthesia, which is why Shaun would like one

to be present for this kind of day. In addition to that - - a good pedo

would be more knowledgeable on what to do, and give Shaun a chance to learn

by observation. Anesthesia comes with its own set of baggage though..... as

the risk is higher than nonanesthetized procedures, as you can imagine, and

have witnessed with .

The more I think about it, the more I like this idea, BUT - - it's also

becoming alarmingly clear that there is a LOT of thought and planning needed

for this. Hmm... home program starts in one week, I have a LOT more free

time.... HMM indeed, huh?

Grace

Re: Special Needs Dental Day

>

> > My husband just announced that he is considering having a " special

> > needs dental day " at his practice. Not just for autism, but for

> > all kinds of special needs children.>>

>

> Grace,

>

> I think it's a terrific idea. So many dentists can't deal with

> special needs kids... got kicked out of our " regular " dentist's

> office ( " I'm afraid we're not equipped to deal with his needs

> here " ). It would probably really help a lot of parents. I know

> several moms here who don't even take their autistic kids to the

> dentist because they can't imagine how it could be done...

>

> I take my kids to a pediatric dentist, and he is the only (ONLY) one

> in town who is willing to deal with special needs kids. I absolutely

> LOVE this guy...because he understands what needs, doesn't get

> ruffled if he acts autistic, AND because he has the good sense to

> schedule in a special time so that he can deal appropriately

> with him. Tell your husband that there will be people beating down

> his door when he starts this...the need is huge...at least it is

> around here.

>

> What our dentist does is to schedule " check up " type appointments one

> day each week during " down " hours (like lunch time) when there are no

> other kids in the office...when the noise is down; it allows the kids

> some privacy for their issues, keeps them from getting stressed out

> by the antics of " regular " kids who are running all over the office

> at other times, and gives him extra staff help if he needs it (and

> believe me, with --he needs it). When a child becomes unable

> to cooperate with an exam, or needs dental work done, he schedules

> one day a month when he has a second dentist, who also happens to be

> trained in pharmacy and anethesiology (how long did this guy go to

> school?)...they have a " special needs " clinic sort of day once a

> month when they bring these kids in and take care of them one by

> one.

>

> I will tell you that it's a monster day for them...they are usually

> booked from 7 am to 6 pm. But I was amazed at the level of care

> got then...he reacted badly to the anesthesia, and I had this

> guy calling me at home every hour till almost 10:30 that night---

> until he knew was in the clear and would be okay. I have

> never gotten that level of care anywhere else.

>

> Tell your hubby to go for it...if he builds it, they will come.

>

> Raena

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Our dentist is really opposed to restraints...he spent years working

> at NC Chapel Hill, and he said that he saw good dentists get sued

> over misunderstandings over restraints. They put kids out here if

> they can't sit still (will allow parent to hold a child for exams,

> but not for dental work).

Raena, that is the same thing with Shaun.

He simply does not use restraints. At his old practice, they told him he

must with " crying children " . He flat out refused. But this wasn't due to

misunderstandings but more that this would create an unnecessary phobia for

kids who might have done well at the dentist, left on their own. A child

who is scared at 3 may not be at 4 or 5, but if you use restraints NOW at 3,

then at four, chances are, he will still be scared for sure BECAUSE of them.

But - - the difference is that most, if not all of the kids who go to

dentists USUALLY, understand something since they are usually 3 or older.

Special needs kids will be different. Giving NO2 will help, but the

question is, how does one keep the child still long enough to give the NO2?

And I am not necessarily referring to just restraints on the arms and legs,

etc. Even to hold down a child by force to get a mask on - - - that is

tough and in some ways, cruel! And with a pedo - - how on earth are they

going to get an IV into the child if the child is really anxious and

terrified?

I know Shaun can give them novacaine like magic - - with almost no pain, IF

they can sit still for a second.

And - - autism is one thing. Some of the special needs children who come

will not be autistic. On a day like this, I hardly think Shaun will care if

the child is on your lap, lying down, standing up or what not. Even in a

wheelchair should be FINE. But the problem isn't how the kid is positioned,

but more HOW the child will be kept still long enough to calm him down via

useage of drugs or gas..... you know? Even just a basic examination where

Shaun can do something very general and just peer in and not touch - - - -

will the child be still enough to do this??? I know it depends on the

child, but you understand what I am getting at. I'm just pondering whether

this is even a possibility without restraints of some kind, via people or

physical restraints. He doesn't even HAVE restraints, but he can get them.

Normally, Shaun and the assistants can get a child to be still. But these

are children who understand things like " lollipop, sticker " or other

rewards. And while they might be scared - - their fear is based on regular

issues - not sensory or tactile issues, you know?

[Guest guest]

Jacquie - THANKS for the opinions. I really need opinions on what people

would want or do for their own kids. This was perfect!

Read on....

> Second, I think that a free exam and maybe cleaning(maybe) would

> be great! Anything more than that and I would think the dentist was a

> saint or nuts. LOL I was thinking that Shaun could do a free exam day

> and tell the parents what their child nmeeds and if the parent wants

> they could come back some other time to get the work done(knowing

> that they had foubnd a great dentist who is willing to work on their

> kid).

I think this is a good idea. A cleaning would only be Shaun's labor time,

and no real substantial cost where materials or lab fees are concerned. And

all kids need it, and should get it, so it would be good for them. Would

you be happy, though, to get your child sedated or given NO2 for a mere

cleaning, I wonder?

I > cost with payments if he felt so inclined. I think Shaun may be

> underestimating how many children he may be asked to service and so

> this is why he is thinking free is even an option!

Could be, since we have absolutely NO idea about how big or small this need

is in our area. I know autism is at its highest here. I know that all

kinds of towns are developing autism classes and programs. I have NO idea

if we even have ONE other handicapped child in the area as all I know is

autism LOLOL!!

> Third,I think publicity is a must! Get the media and maybe a

> couple of papers and a radio station to cover it. What he is offering

> is great! I know parents who travel to the bay area from the valley

> just so they can find a dentist who is willing to work on their kids

> and they still have to pay for all the services! And that said I

> would guess people would probably travel up to 45 mins easily for a

> good dentist. I personally would probably good to the same dentist

> myself if I thought he was good with the kids as well.

I'm going to do just that. I think people would be very generous with

something like this as in free airtime, and perhaps ad space in the local

papers. I think I can pull it off. If nothing else, we could distribute

something to all the ASD programs in the area, and spread the word.

> Last,I would want to stay in the room with Greggory because I

> think it would be comforting to him to have me there but as for Alec

> I dont know if he would even care. I dont want to be there myself but

> I think my kids might feel better if I was. So thats it.

LOL, me too. I don't want to be in the room, but I don't quite think I

could leave either. )

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS!!!

Grace

[Guest guest]

> IV on and go from there. The hardest time is the initial shot for

.

>

> kandie

>

Kandie - and they are able to just hold him down for that initial shot?

[Guest guest]

> Well, er, uh, NO.

> We do a thing where he is totally surprised and gets the shot w/out seeing

> it. (I'm not too proud about this part of it actually!)

>

You know what my next question will be, don't ya?

Well? Share the wealth, woman - -what do you do????????????

[Guest guest]

Grace -

I'm going to read your entire post to Jacquie H., but I just wanted to

respond that I would look for...

A) Someone who made an effort to understand the disorder or disability.

Someone who was not AFRAID of the disability.

C) Someone who will treat the child as a child who needs dental work, do

what they need to do, but listen to the parents' views.

If Shaun were to work on Jacqui, I would have him do what NEEDS to be done.

Let US decide if we want to do a bunch of stuff all in one day, or break it

up. Let US decide WHO works on her. (ie; if the hygenist is a ditz, then

the dentist does the cleaning) And if for some reason she needed assistance,

or time, or whatever that he would allow it. ...and if we said we would

need to come back, that he would say, " Ok, we'll try again another day " .

Understanding, Grace...just understanding.

Oh...and cost? ha...can't put a price on it.

Penny :-D